sex with bisexual male

Hello

After knowing a friend for years,  I had sex with him one night.
We had vaginal sex twice and didnt use a condom, lasting 5 minutes each time.
I have just found out that he is bisexual and he didnt care to tell me this when we had unprotected sex. I know he doesnt like condoms so I am assuming he probably doesnt use them as a general rule. I dont think he is particularly promiscuous, but it really concerns me that his sexual orientation may have caused me harm. He was married for 8 years before our encounter, but I think during his marriage he wasnt particularly faithful.
What is the risk rate for someone in my situation?

[meworried]

Well as a married man (I guess, his marriage still continues), if he can sleep with you, then he can do so with anyone else. You have all the reasons to doubt his faithfulness. A general rule of thumb, always go for a "protected" with anyone whose status is not known to you or you are not sure about.

Although your chances of getting infection are pretty much on the lowest, due to many odds in your favor, it is a fact that in an event of unprotected sex, female always have higher probability to get infected, compared to her male counter part.

What I could suggest you after these couple of unprotected "encounters" with a male whose status was not known to you, refrain from having sex with him again and get yourself tested after 7-8 weeks. My best wishes for you to collect a negative report.

Next time, do not allow anyone for an "unprotected entry". Your life is the most precious gift of Lord, granted only once.  

Wish you very good luck and all the best

[liedto]

Does anyone know the odds of a woman contracting HIV from a bisexual male?
This bisexual person prefers women, but I would say once in a while has sex with men.
There is not much on this forum about woman to bisexual men contact...

Thank you for your help

[islandfever]

The only way to relieve your anxiety is ask him to get tested. It may be awkward, but it will be worth it if you're going to have to have to worry for 6 - 8 weeks. If he doesn't have HIV (most likely scenario) you have no need to test. I am sure you will be fine though. His sexuality doesn't matter, just whether or not he has HIV.

[meworried]

Advice from islandfever is appropriate. I second it.

[dumbo]

His sexuality absolutely does matter 100%!!

I am sorry this happened and you have legitimate concerns due to his unnnounced lifestyle.  His lifestyle is one of the reasons more and more women are getting hiv along with partners of IV drug users.  He is more than likely having unprotected sex with men as well.  If he is a longtime friend, ask him.  One would think he will tell you the truth.

That said, the odds are strongly in your favor you were not infected.  The odds for hiv infection from receptive vaginal are about 1/1000 (0.1%) with a KNOWN infected partner.  You do not know his status so the odds are even lower.  HIV usually takes place from multiple repeat exposures to an hiv infected person.  All literature points to this. this does not mean it is a cumulative effect, it means it is a hard disease to transfer sexually.  But it obviously does happen.

Ask his status and when he was last checked.  Then I suggest a test at 6 weeks.  Your 6 week negative is highly unlikey to change.

I also suggest that you post a question to Dr H in his forum for a personal answer which will be very similar to mine.  Don't expect teak to answer you as your question falls under higher risk and he does not answer questions when receptive anal sex, or gay or bi males are mentioned as this does not suit his agenda.  His response means nothing anyway as he is not an HIV expert by any means.

Again, sorry this person put you in this situation without your knowledge.  But not that you will like this comment, you are ultimately responsible for your own safety and I do not believe he needed to tell you without your asking.  Had you asked, and he lied, then there is reason for resentment IMO.

I fully expect you to be fine but I suggest you post to Dr.H who is the only real true expert on medhelp.  You will feel better for doing it and I am sure he will be happy to answer.

Nobody here in this forum is professionally qualified as an HIV transmission expert, not teak, not even me.

[Teak]

I don't think Christ died and left you the moral police. Keep your personal judgments to yourself.

[rational_irrational_fears]

So you would think.....According to dumbo, the doctor here knows everything about HIV. here are a few examples....................

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/256634
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/265515

This one is my favourite...........especially point 6 in dr's response

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/HIV/messages/696.html

[dumbo]

Dont listen to these idiots.  Post to Dr.H and get a professional answer from a real expert not wannabe's.

good luck.

[Teak]

The only idiot that posts on this forum is you troll.

[rational_irrational_fears]

" Post to Dr.H and get a professional answer from a real expert not wannabe's"

Post to doctor for what? what "professional" answer do you think he can give? Why are you suggesting that this person waste 15 bucks when everyone knows nothing comes out of it.

LOOK AT DOCTOR'S RESPONSES IN MY ABOVE POST. JUDGE FOR YOURSELF. UNLESS YUO ARE AN IDIOT.

[sparkley]

Oh, I forgot,...according to Dr. Handsfield, there are no 45 y/o women in the US with HIV.
Yeah, right...whatever!

[SSK2007]

?????????????????

[regularjoey]

I don't know what is the deal with constant "doctor H-bashing" on this forum.  What is typical is that it always comes from trolls that can't even put a complete sentence together.  I mean are there any other world-class doctors answering stupid and repetitive questions every day online???  I don't think so.  You guys should be happy to have him here.

As far as his credentials go - he is not an HIV expert and he never claims to be!  He says it right there - no questions on viral loads, treatment options, CD4 levels, in other words, no actual HIV questions.  He is not a biologist, not a virologist.  But he is an epidemiologist and he knows his stuff very well - the risks, the statistics, the testing.  And that is all that is needed for the "am i infected' forum.  I have never seen him get a single question wrong - not one.  He is very good at what he does.

[regularjoey]

Like dumbo has told you, the odds of transmission from any single vaginal exposure is not high, 1:1000.  The only problem is that of course there is a much higher chance of a bisexual man having HIV than a straight man having HIV.  But even if he was infected, the odds of him passing it to you are quite low.  I would suggest that you get tested anyway, but certainly there is no reason for you not to expect a negative result.

[dumbo]

Regular joey has it right.  You ignorant sob's bash Dr.H everytime you can on here....but mark my words if he was to leave you would all cry and it would leave all the future concerned people nowhere to go for accurate real truth.  They would only have people like you guys and teak who has a very apparent agenda and those that follow him are weak and can't see things for what they are and cannot think logically or objectively.

Teak does not answer any questions that are from or about gay or bi men as it would confirm they are the highest risk.  he would rather jump on the low risk quesitons about vaginal sex and how heteros are highest risk, which in fact they are not.  And to put it bluntly, teak lies about alot of things and I have exposed him before.  He hates when I do that that's why he cries to admin.

Teak is here only to refute Dr. H as much as he can and he tries to do it in less obvious ways.  Then people like you guys, who are so scared, will follow him and jump on his bandwagon simply because you think he is some kind of hero because he has aids.  Well, he is not and he is certainly NO expert in anything to do with HIV.

  It pi$$es me off that cowards like this get away with this much disrespect toward a well known "HIV TRANSMISSION EXPERT" and does not have the guts to confront the Dr. about his differences.  He would rather whine to medhelp admin everytime I make a post that speaks along the same lines as Dr.H and whch are confrimed by the surveillance data as reported by the CDC and other gov't bodies.  But yet, he calls me a pity seeker re: my diabetes(like he is) and I take it, don't run to medhelp about it because he can say what he wants....and it matters not to me because he is simply a keyboard cowboy.

[ExtremeStress]

Chirs I think you figured out the problem. Dumbo is HARD on homosexuals. I think there is a little confusion between him and his sexuality, that he takes it out on everyone in here. I don't disagree with Dr. HHH and Chris doesn't disagree with Dr. HHH. So Regradless if someone does disagree it is their opinion. You need to be a little more open minded dumbo, and it may help with your problem!

[dumbo]

lol...you guys don't know how to read. Obviously you guys have missed teaks posts where he prints out a response from Dr.H and runs to some dr's at some hospital like a little 2 year old so he can make him look bad.  Obviously you have forgot the post where he said this "website" is a joke in plain easy to read and understand english.  Should I repost it?

Who am I mean to other than teak and his obsessive followers? show me so I can maybe clarify since "tones" are hard to get on the net.

Again, I do not care about ones sexual choices.  However, I care about the truth, which is what Dr. H speaks.  he is not anti gay, but tells the truths that thouse who participate in that lifestyle, are at high risk for HIV.  Pretty simple.  Too bad people (gay rights, fundraisers etc)see it as "homophobic".  Of course those in that lifestyle do see it that way.

I was not harsh on this original poster and all of my comments are accurate.  Teak just tried to make me look bad (again) by jumping in like a hero and asking me if I am God like to make judgement.  I did not make any.  And all of my comments regarding our own persnal reponsibility are completely in line with the posts made at aidsmeds (they are right)...Teak's favorite site, so again he is contradictory.  So what is teak saying?  He obviously does not respect the comments of his peers there.  Go there and read for yourself...they say it over and over again in many many posts free for the reading.

[sparkley]

yeah, he seems to have a sexual conflict here....its quite obvious.

[ExtremeStress]

I didn't say Teak didn't disagree with Dr. HHH.  Most of your posts bash towards TEAK. Your bashing Teak doesn't worry me, he is a big man and can stick up for himself.  You just bring it to another level, a level where it doesn't need to be. If you post what you post and left Teaks name out of it, it would be fine. Why do the bashing? It is going to get you no where and ends up not helping! But one more thing! Teak will respond to anal penetration posts. If it was unprotected, he would basically call you the biggest idiot in the world.

[sparkley]

First, and foremost, Dr. H should be more tactful and professional when responding to forum-users postings.
I have seen repeatedly the number of times he has called countless gay men "stupid" or "dumb" in his responses (for not using condoms) Look in the archives and you will find quite a few.  Was it a ridiculous, yet ludricous idea not to wear a condom during anal sex with MSM?  Of course,....but also if you are heterosexual as well. Yet his advice is like a hand waving in the air like some nonchalant man saying, .."Oh, don't worry, you did not get HIV.".  I can assure that  Dr. Handsfield has been called on his poor attitude before by Cindy from MedHelp.  His sole purpose on this forum is to critique a possible exposure, not criticize.  Sometimes I think he needs to take his own advice and seek ethic counseling.....and I SAY THAT "out of compassion,...not criticism".

To blatantly be so bold as to say a bisexual man, gay, etc..has HIV,...is just a ridiculous notion.

[dumbo]

" If you post what you post and left Teaks name out of it, it would be fine. Why do the bashing? "

Well, if you would actually take time to read my responses to people, without ever mentioning teak's name, he always jumps in with "don't pay attention to dumbo...yadda yadda yadda" without me ever provoking him.  So in all fairness, if you can actually see things that way, maybe take a look back and you would see this is 100% true.  So, as much as I sometimes ignore his provocation, I give it back just the same.

I was gone for a few months this summer from here, I came back to check in, responded to a few posts without ever mentioning teak, yet he jumped in and tried to belittle me....ok big deal, but be prepared to get it back.  Was gone for a couple 3 weeks recently, and same thing happened again.

Don't believe me?  its up to you, I don't care really, but it is all there for the reading should you care to check.

I can respond to anyone here I choose.  It is not a moderated forum nor are there any experts on HIV or it's transmission here.

[dumbo]

"To blatantly be so bold as to say a bisexual man, gay, etc..has HIV,...is just a ridiculous notion. "

He does not say this, never has.  He says the chances are far greater, yes,(and he is obviously right) but never what you say.  Learn to read please before you criticize someone of far greater character than you.

thanks

[ExtremeStress]

You just posted: "if you would actually take time to read my responses to people, without ever mentioning teak's name, he always jumps in with "don't pay attention to dumbo...yadda yadda yadda" without me ever provoking him."


perfect example of you being wrong. This post you stated something about teak in it before he said anything about you. You did stir it up.

You wrote:  Don't expect teak to answer you as your question falls under higher risk and he does not answer questions when receptive anal sex, or gay or bi males are mentioned as this does not suit his agenda.  His response means nothing anyway as he is not an HIV expert by any means.

[sparkley]

that is where you are wrong...and I will FIND THE POST MORON!!

[Jakied]

If your only exposure to Hiv was from your bisexual friend, ask him to be tested.  If he is neg at this time, then you are 99% in the clear.  you should be tested at 90  days past your last time.  I am VERY confident you will be neg.  Then stop testing, stop worrying and move on with your life.

Use this as a learning experience and remember the anxiety when you are tempted again.

[sparkley]

Read you freakin MORON!
You clearly see his lack of tact when responding....you call this professional?



http://www.medhelp.org/forums/HIV/messages/391.html

[sparkley]

or how about this lovely comment from the lovely Doctor:


"Now another bottom line (pun intended again):  You probably realize it was pretty dumb to have the exposure you describe without a condom."



Pun intended?  That is suppose to be funnny?   Spare me.

[anxietytakingover?]

i dont see how taking shots at the doctor is necessary. yes he is very liberal and we may not agree with all of his opinions but he is indeed an experienced doctor and his opinions are infact based on his own clinical experience. no i dont agree with the 6 week window period, but i dont think taking shots at the doc is in order either. just because dumbo is being ignorant and  interpreting the doctors opinions to fit his own agenda doesnt mean we have to do the same. :)

[regularjoey]

Not only is it not necessary, it is plain stupid.  Even if you dislike his liberal style - I myself am not a big fan of his style, by the way.  But the point is - find anyone out there that is better!  There simply isn't anyone.  So, while he is not perfect (nobody is), only a moron can go bashing him, without offering a better alternative.

[sparkley]

"There simply isn't anyone."

Gee,...how many STD clinics do you visit?

[regularjoey]

Sparkley, I usually don't reply to morons, but I will make this exception for you this time.  We were talking about online HIV doctors.  Obviously, there are many people that know more about HIV than Dr.H., but none of them will give their time to answer your dumb questions online.

Chris, Dr.Bob is also a good doc, even though his forum is not as interactive as this one - no back-and-forth Q&A there.  I wouldn't say he's any better than Dr.H. though, they are pretty much the same, just slightly different perspective.

[Teak]

That is totally incorrect. There are a lot of places to get information on HIV and a lot of people better at giving out the information and a lot that know a lot more about HIV and treatment. I wouldn't ask an online doctor anything. If I had an issue I would want face to face communications with the health care provider.

[regularjoey]

Oh don't play dumb again.  You wouldn't ask an online doctor anything, because you have AIDS already.  Of course, if one tested positive he/she needs to see a specialist in person.  But to get information on prevention/transmission/testing of HIV an online source is just fine - as long as it is a credible source.  And as you know Dr.H (along with Dr. Bob) is simply the best doing that as of right now, period.

[regularjoey]

By the way, I never recommend anyone pay money to ask Dr.H. a question.
But that is simply because he has already answered every possible question, not because I dislike his answers.  Just browse through the archives, there are answers there for every possible scenario.

[regularjoey]

By the way, I never recommend anyone pay money to ask Dr.H. a question.
But that is simply because he has already answered every possible question, not because I dislike his answers.  Just browse through the archives, there are answers there for every possible scenario.

[Teak]

Of course Dr. Bob is good. He has HIV and knows about medicines and treatment.

[regularjoey]

Who cares about medicines and treatment???  This is a "prevention" forum, which means that it is for people not yet diagnosed with HIV.  They don't need any treatment, only risk assessment and testing recommendations - which is what Dr.H does just as well as Dr.Bob.  The medical advice they give is practically identical, albeit from a slightly different perspective.

I would actually rate Joel Gallant higher than Dr.H. and Dr. Bob combined, but unfortunately it seems that his forum has been shut down, at least for the time being.  

[regularjoey]

Good news - it hasn't been shut down, it just moved to a different address.  So there's a good alternative - just don't expect any advice on testing/prevention to be any different from Dr.H or Dr.Bob!

[farfromperfect]

I see the arguments still continue on this site.  The only important/relevant information contained in any of the responses is that you need to have an hiv antibody test peformed at 6 weeks and repeated at 13 weeks to confirm your status.  Undoubtedly you will be negative, but noone can predict your status via internet chat forums and nothing will relieve your anxiety like a negative result.  One piece of advice that will certainly increase your ability to deal with this situation is to avoid searching the internet for symptoms or hiv related information in general.  In the United States your risk of aquiring hiv is low but obviously not low enough to adopt a lazy attitude towards it.  Your concern is legitimate, but anxiety and guilt will seriously inflate your view of hiv and cause you to adopt almost every "symptom" that you read about if you do not adhere to a strict no hiv information diet.  
So, all you need to know is:

1.  Even though I would bet money on a negative result for you, you should test at 6 weeks and repeat at 13 weeks to confirm negative result.

2.  Avoid all hiv related sites and publications (including this one, but this one is best if you must cheat)

3.  Use condoms for sex each and every time until you are in a 100% monogomous relationship to protect yourself in the future.  

4.  If you must research, research the affects of anxiety on your body, mind, and spirit to get an understanding of what you could be in store for through this traumatic experience.  

There is absolutely no other important information about hiv on the entire Internet.

Best wishes....FFP

[guiltnworry]

All of the posters who responded to this original question need to quit.  Teak constantly gets on every single post that dumbo posts about and bashes him, then dumbo responds and it turns into a pissing match.  Then chrisneedshelp responds in Teaks defense and its like a little man war.  Someone got onto this site to post a question about his or her risk, and all of you who sit here and argue over whether or not so and so has a man crush on whoever are ridiculous and you defeat the purpose of this website.  

Dr. HHH is an internationally renowned expert on HIV, but he is an expert on it's transmission, not the life cycle of the virus.  He is honest about what he does not know.  Epidemiologists do not research the effects of PEP.  Sparkley, if you looked at his credentials, you would know this.  People post on this forum to assess their risk and Dr. HHH is honest and clear about it.  Can you imagine how many stupid posts he gets a day, and he still responds to them?  It has to get frustrating.  I do not think he gay-bashes, but how many different answers can there be when someone asks how high their risk was for receptive anal sex?  The rate of HIV in the homosexual population is significantly higher than in the heterosexual population and he stresses that.  It IS stupid to have sex without a condom, and saying it is even more stupid to have unprotected anal sex with a gay man isn't a bad thing.  People need to get the picture so they stop putting themselves at risk.  

Teak, I don't know you, I know you have HIV and that you are a pseudo-expert based on experience, however, your experience is not everyone's experience, nor does it relate to every post on here.  Dumbo (regardless of his name) usually makes educated posts about risks.  You getting on and bashing him doesn't do anything.  Anyone can research HIV and know as much about it as you do, maybe not as intimately, but as knowledgeably.  You claim to want to spread the word and stop transmission of HIV, but you defeat your own purpose by getting on and calling dumbo a "troll" every time he posts.

[Teak]

At least you posted something correct, you don't know me.

[longone]

I can’t stay silent on this nonsense. I have paid Dr HHH twice now for events that I brought on myself. Both times he has been correct and his responses have saved me tremendous mental pain. His last post got me not only tested but out of my stupid lifestyle.  At times he is curt as he was with me, however that does not diminish his expertise.

As Rejoey said and DOC. HHH  clearly states his area of expertise is in epidemiology  and one should understand that before seeking his advise. I needed a RISK assessment and got one, it was worth every penny. Only time will prove him right but for now he is batting 100% in my case.

My only criticism would be if one follows all his remarks, he can sometimes be inconsistent. As an example he stated in my post that not asking someone’s status and then having sex with him” that HIV most likely would be in my future” I believe that and have adjusted my lifestyle, however if I only perform oral sex how does that jive with his statement that “oral sex is basically safe sex”?  Overall all though, we are indeed lucky to have him.

[sparkley]

You state: "out of my stupid lifestyle."

You clearly are not comfortable with who you are.  

[longone]

Its not that simple. The sex drive is a powerful thing. It's not like quiting smoking and the urge fades with time the sex urge does not fade with time.

This bi-sexual lifestyle simply became an outlet. Over the years [without getting to personal] it became a part of me I accepted. Then came HIV and all the horror it could bring to family etc. I have no guilt about being Bi and if it were not for the disease factor I would be content to continue it. I however cannot, for as people can see I freak out and that alone is killing me. I am in a struggle that is hard to control.  

In closing I will admit I am married. I am only saying that because other reads of these posts might benefit from this. Years ago I had another HIV scare and confessed to my wife about that event. From that day on, I/WE ALWAYS USE CONDOMS DURING SEX; ALWAYS. How married men can go to porno theaters and have oral sex and then go home and put their loved one at risk is something I will NEVER DO. I hope those days are behind me. So there, I have told my story, I hope it helps someone.

[regularjoey]

I agree with your every word, as usual.
One thing though - Teak is definitely not here to "spread the word and stop HIV transmission".  If that were the case he would be delighted to have people like you here.  Instead, every time anyone knowledgable shows up, he does everything in his little power to kick them off, especially if they are more qualified than he is.  He has reported me to the administration for "abuse" probably a dozen times by now, for example.  So he must have other motives.  My guess - vanity or boredom, most likely both.

[longone]

I have read your posts and they are well written and knowledge based. If someone like you can be evicted from this site then this site becomes worthless. If this is truly a site to help and inform then real knowledge and risks should be passed along.

As I have said on numerous occasions, am well versed in HIV infection. One might laugh at that given my posts, however it is fear that clouds my judgment when it pertains to me. I do understand why I panic and it is because I am a family man and guilt of the devastation my actions could bear on them; not me, causes an irrational reaction. That has changed, never again!!

Please keep posting you are a good read.

[guiltnworry]

I'm glad dumbo and yourself appreciate my comments.  I think sites like these are great for people who just want to hear what other people have to say and get opinions.  I also don't understand why everyone who posts on here asks Teak to answer their questions when, like you say, he just degrades people who make valid comments.  I don't know what it is between bitterness or just a general need to stir things up, but I notice it more and more on every post that he leaves.  Thanks for the support and I will do what I can to keep spreading knowledgeable information.  

[guiltnworry]

It doesn't have anything to do with not liking Teak or being jealous of teak, but he assumes everyones risk to be the same, and this is not the case.  He may say he wants to help people, but he is spreading false information and filling up these boards with calling people trolls and stupid.  We need to look at who is jealous of whom.  Teak was an EMT, but this does not make him an expert.  I do not claim to be an expert either, but it would seem that I have far more education in this particular field and coming up on three related degrees.  I'm not saying listen to me, but don't take everything at face value. You seem intelligent as well, so I am not sure why you constantly defend Teak even when he is blatantly wrong.  

[guiltnworry]

It doesn't have anything to do with not liking Teak or being jealous of teak, but he assumes everyones risk to be the same, and this is not the case.  He may say he wants to help people, but he is spreading false information and filling up these boards with calling people trolls and stupid.  We need to look at who is jealous of whom.  Teak was an EMT, but this does not make him an expert.  I do not claim to be an expert either, but it would seem that I have far more education in this particular field and coming up on three related degrees.  I'm not saying listen to me, but don't take everything at face value. You seem intelligent as well, so I am not sure why you constantly defend Teak even when he is blatantly wrong.  

[regularjoey]

If he is here to help as you say, why is he taking shots at Dr.H.?  Why is he taking shots at more knowledgable users like HIV24, guiltnworry or myself?  Does he help those that REALLY need help?  For example this guy had a REAL concern, do you see Teak offer any help?

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/321532

Sure he finds the time to answer every fingering, kissing and other no-risk question, which is great.  But the point is that he PRETENDS to be an expert, when all he does is google stuff up.  He is a phony and an impostor with zero respect to real authority and that is really annoying.  If he wanted to help people he'd be on the LIVING WITH forum, not here.  At least over there his personal experience would be of some value and interest.

[regularjoey]

Thanks for the kind words.

[Teak]

You're not knowledgeable at all, you just think you are. You have no background or training in HIV and you're not a medical doctor. For your information an ELISA test is a diagnostic test, it just takes another diagnostic test to confirm the results. There are no diagnostic tests that are stand alone tests, all of them have to be followed up with a confirmative test for a positve result. You of all people have no right in talking about anyone else's knowledge. No, I don't always agree, with Dr. H which I have stated.

[regularjoey]

See, that is exactly your problem, that's what I'm talking about.  You are qualified only to move stretchers around, not to voice disagreement on what the doctors tell you.  How can you even have the nerve to argue with Dr.H.???  His pinky finger has more knowledge than you!  

As far as my background, you are wrong as usual.  My educational background and training is precisely in HIV.  Even though I'm more involved with the molecular aspects of HIV rather than the clinical side, I'm knowledgable enough to see what a clueless impostor you are.  You should listen to what knowledgable people tell you, not argue with them.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: everyone appreciates you helping people here.  You put in far more time in assisting the WWs than anyone else would and that is fantastic.  You are doing a great job.  But that does not give you any grounds to challenge doctors here.  You are still just a paramedic and your level of knowledge and education is exactly that of a paramedic.  Please act accordingly.  

[guiltnworry]

Actually, Teak, you are wrong again.  ELISA is a screening test, not a confirmatory diagnostic test.  By definition, a diagnostic test must have a very high specificity and sensivity, which the ELISA does not have based on the high number of false positive and cross reactives that it produces.  ELISA screens for HIV, but the CDC recommends that Doctors do not tell their patients that they have HIV after a positive ELISA, therefore, how can it be diagnostic.  A diagnostic test means that if you have a positive result, you have the disease.  That is the job of the Western Blot.  The ELISA remains a screening tool.  Nice try.

[Brian123]

Wow....unbelievable!   How tacky some people are!  DAMN!

Jesus Christ.....get a life people!

[longone]

I disagree, it is a very interesting conversation.

[guiltnworry]

It wasnt about not getting along, I was simply pointing out that Teak was wrong and giving false information to people.

[Teak]

It would help if you read my reply before you say I'm wrong. Now if anything, you are totally wrong in what you posted. If you don't know what your talking about don't go accusing others that do. Now if you want to team up with Joey and talk your nonsense that's fine, but before you go talking about me, get your facts straight. An ELISA test used to determine if someone has been exposed to  HIV is a diagnostic test. Then you have ELISA tests used for donor screening used for blood banks and tissue and organs.

Now go here and read what the tests are approved for. http://www.fda.gov/cber/products/testkits.htm

FDA Approved Diagnostic ELISA tests. NOT SCREENING TESTS.

Vironostika HIV-1 Plus O Microelisa System  (Plasma / Serum / Dried Blood Spots)
HIVAB HIV-1 EIA (Dried Blood Spot)
HIV-1 Urine EIA (Urine screen)
GS rLAV EIA (Dried Blood Spot)
Vironostika HIV-1 Microelisa System (Dried Blood Spot)
Oral Fluid Vironostika HIV-1 Microelisa System (oral fluids)

[guiltnworry]

If an ELISA was diagnostic, they would not have to confirm it with a western blot.  The title of the website you sent was HIV screening assays approved by the FDA.  Most of them are considered supplementary in diagosing, i.e. screening.  An ELISA test to determine if someone has been exposed to HIV is a screening test, which must be followed up with the diagnostic test, Western Blot.  The only thing the FDA is saying is that the tests you listed is that they are diagnostic for HIV antibodies in the blood, but are used to screen people.  They alone will not diagnose HIV.  Only when a western blot comes back positive is someone truly DIAGNOSED with HIV.  The above tests are diagnostic for the presence of antibodies to HIV in the blood or saliva, but those antibodies that react to cause the test to be positive are not always HIV, which is why to diagnose HIV infection, you need a western blot.

[guiltnworry]

This is from the MedHelp website...I do believe it proves my point perfectly and that it is consistent with what any EXPERT will tell you about screening versus diagnostic tests for HIV.

"HIV ELISA/Western Blot is a set of blood tests used in the diagnosis of chronic infection with human immunodeficiency virus (HIV). The HIV ELISA is a screening test for the diagnosis of HIV infection. If this test is positive, it must be confirmed with a second test called the Western Blot, which is more specific and will confirm if someone is truly HIV positive (there are other conditions that may inaccurately produce a positive ELISA test result, including lupus, Lyme disease, and syphilis). "

Notice where it says that the ELISA is a SCREENING test FOR THE diagnosis of HIV, not diagnostic in and of itself.  

[guiltnworry]

do you have anything meaningful to add to the conversation?

[regularjoey]

If you are tired of this thread (i am), appeal to Teak to stop misinforming people.  G'n'W did the right thing correcting him, you are barking up a wrong tree here.  Since Teak is not bright enough to understand a brief one-sentence explanatiton, G'n'W spelled it out.  Teak is the one that should drop the whole thing.  He is not achieving anything by arguing with people far more knowledgable than he is.  He should just apologize, admit that he is wrong and that's it.

[regularjoey]

Ha!  I didn't realize that Teak was targeting the African market!

[regularjoey]

Actually, that is a good point.  Maybe Afrrica officially has a skajillion of HIV cases, because they are so stingy with the Western Blot.  I wonder if anyone had bothered to check what is the percentage of falsely diagnosed folks in Africa....

[Teak]

In the US all positive tests results must be confirmed by a Western Blot or IFA test. LOL, Joey give it up, you are about as knowledgeable as a new WW and your little sidekick isn't any better.  

[guiltnworry]

Are you bitter?  You just said exactly what I said.  If the ELISA were diagnostic in the US, why would the Western Blot be needed to confirm it?  The answer is because in the US, the ELISA is not diagnostic, period.  And chris, the only reason the ELISA is considered diagnostic in Africa is because that is all the governments and health clinics can afford because of the HIV epidemic there.  

[Teak]

I have no reason to be bitter. People can come here and read for themselves. You're just proving that you don't know what you are talking about.

[Xhost]

To the original poster: I am sorry that your question seems to have spurred everyone on. You have fallen victim to a recent and disturbing trend on this site. As you can see from reading through the many replies, there is a knowledge base here, if you can just cut through all the **** to get to it. Not so easy sometimes, of course.

Unfortunately, the fact is that you probably stopped reading this thread a long time ago, but others did post some good advice. You should be tested. The odds really, truly are in your favor here, so don't spend all of your time worrying about this. The chances that you were infected with HIV as the result of the encounters that you describe are pretty slim. Just circle a date on your calendar six weeks from the last day that you had sex with the gentleman in question, and then go get a test. As it is the official policy of the US (and I believe you are here in the US), go ahead and circle another date, six weeks after you take the first test. But, know this: your first test result (which, I am confident will be negative) will be very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very unlikely to change at the 12 week mark. How unlikely? Well, I did say "very" 9 times ;-). It basically never happens, according to more than one person I have either read or spoken to on this subject.

So, to sum up, go ahead and get a test. Every sexually active person should be taking at least one HIV test a year anyway, so just consider this one your annual test. Also, I really believe you are going to be just fine.

I wish you well, and if you need someone to speak to, go ahead and post another question here. Contrary to what you must think based on the responses to this thread, people really here are to help you if you need them. You just caught some people on a bad day.

[guiltnworry]

Just one more question, and then this thread can die, Teak, exactly what medical background do you have? EMT doesn't count.

[regularjoey]

Jesus, do you have to ask?  Of course he has none, as if it wasn't obvious...

He won't admit it, but I think he finally got the message, so let's not go on with this.

[regularjoey]

You need to know CPR and such, but I wouldn't call it medical knowledge...

I've conversed with Teak for many months and I can say for a fact that he has no understanding of medicine and biology whatsoever.  Come on, take any guiltandworry's comment and compare it to Teak's - can't you see the difference?  One just speaks in memorized blocks - without knowing what the words in that block MEAN.  The other actually understands the issue.

Just take this thread for example.  Of course Teak knows that ELISA is not used to diagnose HIV, it always requires a confirmation.  Yet he keeps saying that it's a diagnostic test.  Why?  Because he saw it on a website and now repeats it like monkey.  I can give you other examples, there are many.

[regularjoey]

Here is another good one

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/269651

This dummy says every day that "the average time to seroconversion is 22 days", but he has no idea what it means... that's what he says: "The information says MOST will seroconvert. It doesn't say anything about they will test postive at that time, nor does it sat 50%".  I just find it funny, it's like "the forecast was for hot weather.  it didn't say anything about it not being cold"....

[regularjoey]

I agree, we should stop.  I think most people here agree that he is clueless, so we should just ignore him, let him say what he wants.

[guiltnworry]

FYI- an EMT paramedic is the most advanced an EMT can get without leaving the field to become a supervisor.  Their duties are limited to giving certain medications (like those to jumpstart a stopped heart, etc) and starting IV fluids.  They can also splint injuries, but mainly, their job is to stabilize the patient until he/she gets to the hospital.  No specific mechanisms of diseases or medicines are required.  Not saying I don't appreciate paramedics, but I wouldn't rely on them for HIV advice.

[Teak]

There you go now you think you know what a Paramedic does. Know one should rely on you or RegJoey for advice on HIV. Clueless? That you two are.

[Teak]

Can you suture? Can you insert a chest tube? Can you relieve a cardiac tamponade? Can you do cricoid stick? Didn't think so. You don't have any idea what a paramedic does dork. You know about as much about Paramedic's as you do HIV. NOTHING.

[p.Toole]

This is all pretty scary but i for one am interested in what people who have hiv, have to say. I don't think its worth getting upset at someone who at least makes an attempt to help you, or give you some advice. You can take it any way you want.

[guiltnworry]

You listed all of those things, but none of them really require MEDICAL knowledge.  So you can sew skin together and push a needle through some cartilage.  What knowledge of HIV does that give you?  It's very different.  I, too, can suture, and do a cricoid stick, and call people "dorks" for that matter.  Does being able to suture, do a cricoid stick, or relieve a cardiac tamponade tell you anything about HIV?  I didn't think so.

[Teak]

Have you taken training in HIV/AIDS where you are certified to teach? Didn't think so. Before you even ask. Yes , before you ask I have a certificate to teach HIV/AIDS education.

[guiltnworry]

Education, meaning you can teach people how to not get it? Like use a condom, don't have sex, ask status?  I think people are questioning your ability to teach and tell about the molecular aspects of HIV.  You would like to believe that everyone's case is as high risk as yours, but in reality, they are not, and you saying so is spreading false information.  No, I do not have a "certificate" to teach HIV/AIDS education, but this means nothing judging by your responses and their inadequacy.  With my extensive educational background, I would bet that my degrees far outweigh your "certificate" to teach about HIV/AIDS, which undoubtedly does not have anything to do with molecular HIV.  Anyone can say "wear a condom" or "get tested", which appears to be the extent of your knowledge, since it is what you say to every post.

[Teak]

What does knowledge of  molecular HIV have to do with teaching, risk accessment and testing and meds? NOT A  D A M N  thing. You don't even know what tests are used for testing HIV. So don't try to flatter yourself with telling us of your so called knowledge.

[guiltnworry]

This will be my last post to you about this because to put it simply, you are not worth it.  Even your knowledge of risk assessment is not right, for all your so-called training.  I think I thoroughly proved my point about HIV testing, and that ELISAs are screening tests in the United States and that a confirmatory Western Blot must be completed for a diagnosis of HIV to be made.  You claim that someone who has sex with a heterosexual non IV drug user has the same risk as someone who had receptive anal sex with a homosexual.  Like it or not Teak, not everyone is you, thank God.  Not everyone got HIV through homosexual intercourse.  I am not judging homosexuals, but it is FACT that the rates of HIV are higher.  Anyone can tell everyone who posts on this forum to get tested, but you do little to answer any questions correctly.  A heterosexual simply does not have the same risks for HIV as a homosexual.  It is unfortunate, but true.  Stop trying to spread lies and make it different.  Your class on HIV gives you knowledge to tell people to get tested and use condoms, thats about it.  I am beginning to wholeheartedly agree with regularjoey that you know very little about HIV transmission and risks, and you are bitter about your own status, therefore you spread false information to make people freak out just that little bit more.

[p.Toole]

I think its you that wants everybody to freak out, because your afaid, your right Its petty frightning.

[Teak]

You show me one post that I've said that. You can't. I said the only way to tell if ANYONE has been exposed to HIV by unprotected sex is by testing. You can't tell them that they were not at risk or they don't need testing if they have had unprotected sex. Anyone that says they can without the person being tested is a fool. So I'm glad you are done here.

[longone]

What are trying to say? You quoat Teak below. Are you suggesting Seroconversion is NOT the period of time detectable antibodies with show? If so read the definition of Seroconversion below.

This dummy says every day that "the average time to seroconversion is 22 days", but he has no idea what it means... that's what he says: "The information says MOST will seroconvert. It doesn't say anything about they will test postive at that time,


Seroconversion is the development of detectable specific antibodies to microorganisms in the serum as a result of infection or immunization

[dumbo]

Great posts....lots to respond to.

Guiltnworry, thanks for your kind words and seeing myposts for what they are.  Appreciated.  Teak has an obvious agenda here (hence why he does not answer any anal sex related questions from men who have sex with men) and has  lied many times and I have exposed these lies.  Like how about lying about being an EMT for 34 years.  He says he is 52.  Do the math and he started when he was 18, right out of highschool??  No post secondary training??  How about how he claims to have got hiv from a bone laceration?  How about how no hiv healthcare worker or "expert" can say they have seen a person test positive after 6 weeks, but Teak has seen it many times.?  How about how any "experts" I have ever read articles from, or talked to, have all said vaginal sex is low risk both ways for HIV,especially for a man to get, yet Teak sees it all the time??  
Should I go on?


The lies are for fear mongering and I agree 110% he is definitely bitter.  He is an 80's child where they had major scare campaigns directed at heterosexuals but he can't accept that the hetero epidemic will never happen her.  He does however tow the party line where most of HIV infections are thru hetero sex...of course he includes Africa, which is obviously misleading to those whoh have not researched the real stats and reasons for differences in the Africa epidemic....one that will never happen in North america or industrialized countries.

Regardless, he is not an expert in HIV by any means.  Regularjoey is well informed, as you seem to be.  Both much more than I of course as I have no medical background, although I can stitch someone up if necessary...lol

[Teak]

LOL, I do not need to explain my education to you. Mine can be verified. What about yours dumbo? Yes, dumbo, it's been 34 years. I received my Paramedic's when I was eighteen. I'm glad you can subtract or did you just copy and past?

[dumbo]

You don't need to explain your education to me???  then stop throwing it around every second post about how you were a paramedic for "34" years....oh, and it is "paste" not "past"...my education teak, has brought me income that far surpassed what you would ever make.

Please don't be upset because guiltnworry exposed you and made you look like the fraud you are.   I am not a health care profesisonal.  I think I have made that clear on many occasions.  Neither are you otherwise you would have known that the ELISA test is a screening test for HIV......everyone knows that...well, except you teak.....but you do now.

I forgot to add that you did not have any symptoms, and you were a long term non progressor.  So what are the odds of "all" of this happening to one man? astronomical...literally.  Any more lies you can tell us today teak? perform any heart transplants today while you watched Oprah? see some more hetero guys getting hiv today?  see some people test positive after 6 weeks this week?

[Teak]

You're just an ignorant little troll, just like your friend, helpasap. :) Have a good day.

[guiltnworry]

I agree that your posts are mostly well informed and that Teak is ill qualified to spread knowledge about HIV testing or otherwise.  I disagree that a heterosexual epidemic will NEVER happen here or in industrialized countries.  I think it is much less likely than the homosexual epidemic of the 80s, but never say never.  As soon as people start thinking that HIV is not a problem, it will start to spread faster.  People do need to realize that it is an ever present threat, although more to some populations than others.  Right now, HIV is not common in the heterosexual population, but we shouldn't take this for granted.

Thanks again for the appreciation and great posts.

[Teak]

The only one ill qualified to answer questions is YOU and dumbo. You have no back ground in risk assessment, testing or transmission of HIV.  

[guiltnworry]

Paramedic vs. Med Student with a bachelors and masters degree...you decide

[regularjoey]

I would LOVE to see you at work Teak.  I would PAY to see a paramedic argue with a doctor (or a resident, or a student) in front of patients in the hospital.  You would get fired in a second, 34 years of experience and all.  You're such a fraud!

[dumbo]

Fair enough.  I disagree though for several reasons the 2 main ones being,

1. If the heterosexual epidemic that was predicted at the height of the epidemic in North America (80's) were to have happened, it should have appeared in this poulation group before it appeared in gay men.  Simply because the hetero population is much much larger in numbers.  It did not, and it's not like the gay population were the only ones having sex..  Most people are very aware of HIV and use condoms so I disagree complacency will rule the day anytime in the future.  If anything, complacency reigns in the gay community as the new fears are that condoms are not being used as alot of people now think HIV is curable or fully treatable. I have read several articles to this effect in populations where homosexuality is concentrated.    Coupled with the fact that bathhouses still exist after being proven over and over again that these facilities are major spreaders of hiv.

2. HIV is hard to transmit via vaginal sex whether m/f or f/m because blood is not usually involved.  HIV is a blood borne disease, a fragile disease that from what I have read does not cross mucous membrane easily unlike many other viruses.  It also needs to find certain cells that are usually found deeper in the body and on top of that it needs lots of virus to infect.  I have yet to see any health care professional say they have seen the spread to the hetero population.  Sure it happens, mainly to women (unfortunately) who are the partners of either bisexual men, IV drug users, men who have been in prison, etc.

If the stats have not shown clear evidence of a hetero epidemic by now, then I highly doubt this will change.  This is not endorsing not using condoms and practicing responsible sexual activities, but hopefully it opens the door for people to know and learn exactly where the bigger risks are in regards to chosen sexual activities such as receptive anal for example, whether male or female.

as I mentioned, I do not have medical background but I can read surveillance data and the data is consistent year over year in most geographical locations.  The exception being, more and more women are being infected, and to break it down even further, a large percentage of those are African American women.

Anyway, it's good to have differences of opinions that can be debated with maturity. :)

[dumbo]

"Paramedic vs. Med Student with a bachelors and masters degree...you decide "

Read this closely.  Then go away.  thanks.

[Teak]

Move on troll.

[guiltnworry]

You guys are awesome.  It is very nice to have mature conversations about things, unfortunately, 52 year old men who are bitter jump in and ruin it.  Anyway, dumbo, I agree with everything you said.  I don't think a hetero epidemic is likely, but I just didnt want to say never.  I agree that many in the gay community (and hetero) have become complacent as HIV has become more and more treatable and called a "chronic disease".  I just think that saying it will absolutely never happen will breed even more complacency.  I doubt it would reach epidemic proportions, but one more infection is one too many.  Keep up the awesome posts.  

[ExtremeStress]

Your statement: Teak has an obvious agenda here (hence why he does not answer any anal sex related questions from men who have sex with men)

Here are two of many: one old and one new!!!!!

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/20380
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/320465

Then you go and pick on spelling (It's paste not past). Are you a F%cking English teacher? No!!!! If your dumb@$$ can tell what he meant to put, than I am sure someone else can.

Here is a sentence you wrote in this thread!

Was gone for a couple 3 weeks recently, and same thing happened again.

(A couple 3 weeks) What the hell is that?

This is a forum not an English Class. No body is grading on spelling or f*cking carry-on sentences. This is a site to ask about transmission risk, advice about testing, and advice about condom usage. You do not have to be a Doctor to assist and help on here. Advice is Advice. People can take it or leave it. So far on this thread, No advice! Just Bickering back and forth. Regardless if teak has a 5th grade education or a Phd, He still assess risk the same as most and helps those that are in fear and instills the prevention techniques to those that need it. That is why He posts. To Help! If they listen to him or not, that is their business. Not any of ours.

[dumbo]

"I doubt it would reach epidemic proportions, but one more infection is one too many."

I agree 100%.  But, people (ok one person) on this forum, has said "if I can save just one life I will be happy" .  But yet they are ok with bathouses if condoms are used.  Does this person still continue to go to them?  Does this person feel nostalgic toward them?  does this person say this simply because their friends still attend them?  

Of course condoms are not used all the time in bathouses, and I would say not as much as people would think (maybe 50%) as studies are still being done to show this (read pubmed).  Drugs and MSM promiscuity reign at these facilities.  Many studies have now been done on crystal meth / bathouses just like poppers were used back in the early days.

  So, my point is, is that if a person wants to save "just one life" then they should not be ok with bathouses because it is well known they are high risk facilities for spreading HIV.  Period.

I can provide links to these studies should anyone wish to read them.  Just send me a PM as  I can't post the links here because teak cries to admin everytime I expose him as a liar and has my posts removed.  Yet I see many recent posts with links these days but then those ones suit his agenda so he does not complain.  Funny how that goes.

[Teak]

What is the difference between going to a CSW and using condoms or gays going to bath houses and using condoms. There is not a difference. Not all CSW are women either. You are saying if you are straight it's okay to go to CSW, but not if you are gay and having protected sex? Get real.

[sparkley]

I really do not know why so many still carry on this way.

Anyways...maybe all this will be kharmaic.....
Ya know?
Maybe someday soon, the fat a.s.s. bigot who sits at their computer all day eating twinkies and drinking soda with diabetes, who does nothing but berate homosexuals, will have a sugar attack, go blind, and lose a leg.  This way they will not be on here anymore.  
Let's all hope that person will be humbled.

[dumbo]

If condoms are used, sure that's fine.  I agree.  But it is well known they are not used in bathouses and it is fact that MSM are highest risk for HIV.  Bathouses are random hookups for men who are gay, married and on the down low, or bisexual men.  Does money change hands?  It is a place where men go to use drugs to loosen up and have sex with random men.  I do not know of any places where men can go to do meth, and have sex with multiple random women.  Maybe crackhouses but I am not sure on that.  If that is the case, then that is wrong too as condoms are more than likely not being used either and of course they should be shutdown just the same as bathouses should be.

[dumbo]

wow, what an awful thing to say.  You're right though, karma does happen to all of us....

[longone]

Bath house exist for the reason Dumbo said.  I know I have used them. They like most places have many different types of people in them. During the day its usually married or older guys looking for sexual relief, at nigh that's when the real nuts come in.  Most go there because they like non committed relationships nothing more. They do NOT want on steady partner. Of course in this day and age it is very dangerous and it IS a very risky business. That said; I have only see no condom used one time for anal. There is alot of oral and I have seldom seen a condom used for that. Also you would be surprized that alot of guys do nothing but provide oral or simply watch others engage in sex. Bottom line,  stay away from them all including CSW, what ever that is.

[dumbo]

thanks for that reply.  Maybe I am wrong in how much condoms are used or maybe it is specific to your area.  

thanks again for the great info.

[guiltnworry]

This has actually been studied, believe it or not.  Homosexual males, on average (meaning not all), have a significantly higher number of partners than heterosexuals.  Some of the social scientists who studied this came to the logical conclusion that this is one of the reason why HIV is so prevalent in the homosexual population.  This is not to say that heterosexual people do not have unprotected sex, certainly, judging by the many posts on this forum, they do.  However, on average, they have fewer sexual partners than gay men.  In the studies, they were also less likely to consistently use a condom.  Just FYI

[dumbo]

Let me rephrase one thing.  I meant maybe my 50% condom use in bathouses was wrong.  I still believe it is high but maybe not that high.  MSM are still getting infected at stabilized numbers so obviously uncovered receptive anal is still happening.  If you go to aidsmeds even they do not believe someone who says they were only a top and got HIV from it which indicates that they are fully aware of the high risk of receptive anal sex.  You can read tons of posts in their living with hiv forum and newly infected?? to this effect.  there are also many posts regarding past behaviors of thos eposting on aidsmeds.  Many many comments reflect drug use and promiscuity among MSM.

There are good gay people (Teak is not one of course ) just like there are good heteros.  HIV just happens to hit MSM's harder (because of anal sex) than most groups other than the IV drug users.  Some people choose to continue to deny and deflect thus continuing the infection rates among MSM's.  

You can go to pubmed and read many studies on this subject as guiltnworry has stated.  

[Teak]

LOL, dumbo, you don't even know me. I have no reason what so ever to nice to a troll.

[dumbo]

what question? that gay people are sluts?  dont be so ridiculous.  Thats not even worth talking about.  Come on man.

[longone]

I would recommend you return to, say the second grade a relearn how to read. Why do the few Gay/Bi-sexual guys that use bath houses represent the whole Gay community to you?

[longone]

Let me be up front about bathhouses. I have used them for years. Please read my previous post but in addition it’s so simple. Men like sex!!  It’s in the chromosomes, its in nature. I can’t speak for Gays all I can tell you is that there are lots of people using bathhouses and they are used to meet people and to have sex with mostly anonymous people. They are not cheep so you go to get off.  Each bathhouse has its unique culture.  I am a little limited though in my experience at night for I went mostly during the day. The night crowd usually was much younger and MUCH more sexually active.

What else is there to say some people use hookers some go to porno, some go to bathhouses, the smart one’s stay home with their loved ones. I believe it’s all about the level of your sex drive and discipline.

As for me I can tell you how I entered the Bi-world. Believe it or not, I didn’t want to CHEAT on my wife. I started going to adult theaters and got off with other men and somehow it didn’t feel like cheating, nuts huh?

Oh well that’s enough of my life its behind me and if My 5 week test is right I just might have survived this 20 year battle.


PS  sorry Jaguar for my curt comment

[sparkley]

sooner or later...you will put yourself in a compromised situation....again.
no condom, ...back on here.....pi.s.s.i.n.g. and moaning like you did on aidsmeds.com

[sparkley]

obviously you are not over it....you are still here....in a HIV SUPPPORT forum...IDIOT!

[sparkley]

get a life

[ExtremeStress]

glad to see you are back!

[ExtremeStress]

nothing much. I wasn't posting on here back in april when I had my (non risk scare), but I took yours and teaks advice by reading previous posts. I started posting later on in Sep. I was very surprised to see you back. Glad to see yah! I wish BigDummy could be back!

[ExtremeStress]

He can brag this year! 6-1