vaginal fluid in urethra? (through mutual masturbation)

[UncleTom]

Hello!

I'm 25 years male and I'm from Central Europe, so pardon my English, as it is not my native language. I'll try to be brief and consistent.

13 days ago I've had sexual encounter with sex worker.
I've engaged in (chronological order):
- received manual stimulation, which is considered safe UNLESS there is no contact with infected person's body fluids, which unfortunately propably occured in my case, as lady DID touch her wet vagina every now and then (stupid thing to allow - I know that) so there is a RISK of fluids accessing my urethra.
- NOT protected insertive oral sex (some risk)
- protected vaginal sex (considered safe)

When I've realized what she is doing- I've been already touched for few times.

Exactly 7 daysafter described event I've noticed a bit of a sore throat, but i thought It's a flu-like pain, as I've drunk a lot of wine on ice and ate some ice-creams. Next day pain went away, but I've noticed, that my tonsils were red and enlarged. 3 days later I've got some medicine (antibiotics of some sort), as my doctor suspeceted bacteria infection.
I'm on medicines for three days now, so it makes a total of 6 days with enlarged TONSILS, a bit swollen lymph GLANDS, and merely no other symptoms of ARS.
And yes, I know, that symptoms mean nothing. I've read a lot lately.

( btw, here are some nice statistics of ARS symprtoms frequency in HIV+ patients: http://www.retroconference.org/2001/posters/414.pdf )

Finally, the questions:
Q1: I'm trying to evaluate my chances of getting infected. Are there any means to rate it?
Q2: There are some free 4th generation tests for p24 occuernce done twice a week in local clinic. Are 2-3 weeks enough time for geeting tested?

I'm freaking out. I shoul be working on my master's degree, but I can't focus anymore on it. Damn it.

Thank you in advance for answers (sorry for my English)

[H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.]

Mutual masturbation has never been known (or really even suspected) to result in HIV transmission.  In theory, yes, if vaginal fluids got into the urethra, the virus could be transmitted.  But that is a theoretical concern that probably never happens.

Symptoms never are useful to judge whether or not someone has a new HIV infection.  Your symptoms are much more likely to be a common cold or other minor virus than HIV.  Anyway, HIV almost never causes symptoms without also causing fever.

To the specific questions:

1) Zero, for all practical purposes.  There are no statistics available, except that for certain the risk is too low to measure.  In other words, zero for all practical purposes.

2) On the basis of your symptoms and risk of inection, you don't need testing at all.  But it sounds like you should do it for anxiety relief.  A negative "4th generation" dual test (antibody plus p24 antigen) at 3 weeks would be over 90% assurance you weren't infected.  If you do it at 4-5 weeks, it will be 100%.  

You can relax.  Truly no signficant risk here.  And your English is fine.  Good luck with your studies.

HHH, MD

[UncleTom]

Thanks doc ;]

I'll try to focus on my  studies - it's gonna be a whole bit easier now;]
I'm going to get tesed in 2 weeks, and if something goes wrong - I'll repost (or szhould i say: try to) just for the record.

[NCR1]

This post doctor has got to be the best thing i have read on here and I feel 400% better.

I know you said i never had a risk but anxiety got the best of me and in Sydney Australia that is the standard test they run, a 4th gen dual antibody and antigen test, i got my negative result yesterday at 6 weeks.

To unle tom, i know exactly how you feel mate it is tuff, but please listen to the doc. the fact that she touched herself and then touched you is barely a risk, the only way i can think of it to be is if she was dripping wet and every time she touched herself touched the head of your penis and let it drip there which i highly doubt. more like she touched herslef and by the time she touched you it was moist and dry.

You will be fine my friend the best advice i could give is listen to this doctor, BUT i would be a hypocrite because my anxiety got the best of me.

[frightened:(]

I got this response from an Adminsitrator at an AIDS board.  I hope this helps you some:

The infectious sexual fluid a woman produces is the cervicovaginal fluid, which is actually a thick mucus which covers and protectes the cervix. When a person has unprotected vaginal intercourse, the head of the penis - which is the bit vulnerable to infection - repeatedly bangs up against the cervix, deep in the vagina.

The lubricating fluid a woman produces when sexually excited comes from the Bartholin's glands, located on either side of the vaginal opening. I have not found one shred of evidence that this lubricating fluid is any more infectious than sweat or tears, which are NOT infectious.

So, not only is this lubricating fluid not one to worry about, but when it is used as lube for masturbation, this takes place OUTSIDE the body. Hiv is very fragile and quickly becomes damaged and unable to infect when outside the body. So even if there were some virus present, it would not be viable and able to infect.

Her hand could have been absolutely dripping with vaginal juices and you still wouldn't have been at risk for hiv during a handjob.

[PAZIG]

that is FIng really good answer

[frightened:(]

Just curious if my post agrees with your experiences and understanding of HIV?  As previously stated, I got it from elsewhere and cannot take credit for it, but it was one of the most detailed explanations I've read regarding the topic.

[H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.]

Actually, I don't agree with that reasoning.  First, I'm not sure that the HIV content of lubricating secretions from the Barthonlin and Skene's glands actually has been studied.  Certainly if there were inflammation of those glands, as is common in STDs, those fluids almost certainly would contain HIV -- and HIV might be there all the time anyway.  Second, there is no way to separate cervical secretions from lubricating fluid.  Cervical secretions are produced continually by most women, and I would not assume that fluids near the vaginal opening come only from sexual lubrication; undoubtedly they usually (always?) include cervical secretions.

None of this changes the fact that HIV transmission never occurs by hand-genital contact, including masturbation with vaginal fluid as lubricant.  But the reason probably has more to do with the amount of HIV from such exposure, not the origin of the woman's secretions.  

[frightened:(]

I now understand the amount of HIV in vaginal fluids has the most impact. But how is it that men can catch it from women during vaginal sex?  Is it that HIV's exposure to air has impact as well?  

I hope this is the last I bother you with this.  I just didn't know anywhere else to ask you such a question.

You have a great deal of information in addition to the facts that you use to inform people.

I and the board really appreciate your insight!  Thank you for your explanations.

[H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.]

Sorry, we do not answer people's specific concerns in other people's threads.  Feel free to ask your questions in a new thread.  But I believe the answers are obvious.  You could save $15 by reading existing threads or asking the same things in the HIV community forum.

This thread is over.  No more comments, please.