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window period data?
Hi everyone,
I was wondering if anyone has seen any real data on the window period question? Maybe studies of seroconversion times, etc. I am still very confused and somewhat upset about the uncertainty out there. I did call the Mass state hotline and they tell everyone that the window period for a conclusive HIV antibody test (independent of test generation or kind of test btw) is 6 weeks. In their view, the CDC is being tooo conservative and only people with suppressed immune systems would take longer than 6 weeks. Now the CDC will say that 3 months is conclusive and that people with weakened immune systemms might in fact take 6 MONTHs to convert. ANd the guys on the aidsmeds forum are sharing that view (some of those folks are misinformed about the Mass guidelines btw and state test performance as a reason for the inconsistency which is NOT the case).
The counselors on the Mass hotline say that the state has the exact same data and the exact same tests as almost everyone in the US and that their conclusion is that 6 weeks is more than enough time for a conclusive result.
So then why does the CDC still recommend 3 months??
Did anyone actually see any data/studies? I know Dr H repeatedly said that the exact experiment on thsi will never been done for ethical reasons and I buy that. But what data are the window periods out there based on then?
Thanks.
I was wondering if anyone has seen any real data on the window period question? Maybe studies of seroconversion times, etc. I am still very confused and somewhat upset about the uncertainty out there. I did call the Mass state hotline and they tell everyone that the window period for a conclusive HIV antibody test (independent of test generation or kind of test btw) is 6 weeks. In their view, the CDC is being tooo conservative and only people with suppressed immune systems would take longer than 6 weeks. Now the CDC will say that 3 months is conclusive and that people with weakened immune systemms might in fact take 6 MONTHs to convert. ANd the guys on the aidsmeds forum are sharing that view (some of those folks are misinformed about the Mass guidelines btw and state test performance as a reason for the inconsistency which is NOT the case).
The counselors on the Mass hotline say that the state has the exact same data and the exact same tests as almost everyone in the US and that their conclusion is that 6 weeks is more than enough time for a conclusive result.
So then why does the CDC still recommend 3 months??
Did anyone actually see any data/studies? I know Dr H repeatedly said that the exact experiment on thsi will never been done for ethical reasons and I buy that. But what data are the window periods out there based on then?
Thanks.
Hi,
I had sex with a prostitute on May 19. She did perform unprotected oral sex on me. However I did use a condom for intercource. Now i know she had sex with someone just before me, and im guessing the persond did have unprotected oral sex as well. Could i have been infected with Hiv then.
Anywayas, after sleepless nights i called a center on the internet that offered me to get tested early. i took a hiv rna test which they said could detect the infection early. I took it on May 30th, approximately 10-11 days from possible exposure,
After a few days i did get tested positive for Herpes 1 & 2. However, the hiv rna test and antibody test were negative. Could it be possible that i took the test too early and the Hiv did not show.
I had developed a rash on the left side of my stomach just above the waistline. The rash started 2weeks from the encounter. the rash is around 1.5 cm long, slightly raised red base, has around 5 or six small black crusted spots within them like it is healing after an open sore. very tiny spots though. I have lost some weight and am extremely stressed out.
I was hoping that it is only herpes and not hiv. But i read that it is uncommon for herpes rash to occure on or above the waist. im confused? Also the person on the helpline who charged me for the tests said i could not get herpes within 10 day of exposure. I have had it from before, which is possible. Why did i have an outbreak in 2 weeks from this exposure. i never had a rash like this before.
sorry im all confused someone?
I had sex with a prostitute on May 19. She did perform unprotected oral sex on me. However I did use a condom for intercource. Now i know she had sex with someone just before me, and im guessing the persond did have unprotected oral sex as well. Could i have been infected with Hiv then.
Anywayas, after sleepless nights i called a center on the internet that offered me to get tested early. i took a hiv rna test which they said could detect the infection early. I took it on May 30th, approximately 10-11 days from possible exposure,
After a few days i did get tested positive for Herpes 1 & 2. However, the hiv rna test and antibody test were negative. Could it be possible that i took the test too early and the Hiv did not show.
I had developed a rash on the left side of my stomach just above the waistline. The rash started 2weeks from the encounter. the rash is around 1.5 cm long, slightly raised red base, has around 5 or six small black crusted spots within them like it is healing after an open sore. very tiny spots though. I have lost some weight and am extremely stressed out.
I was hoping that it is only herpes and not hiv. But i read that it is uncommon for herpes rash to occure on or above the waist. im confused? Also the person on the helpline who charged me for the tests said i could not get herpes within 10 day of exposure. I have had it from before, which is possible. Why did i have an outbreak in 2 weeks from this exposure. i never had a rash like this before.
sorry im all confused someone?
It was sarcasm, what I wrote about the 5 years is to try to imitate the usual ignorance and randomness of info posted evrywhere on the net.
If you have everyone that has a reputable history telling you that the WP is 3 months long, then the window period is 3 months long! why would you believe me, or frank or dexter? nobody of us should be surfing the net to get this info.
HIV is a serious matter, we should be asking our doctors face to face about our worries, preferably one with extensive experience in HIV matters and stick to what THEY say, in your country, in your very own case.
just a few hours ago I found a document saying window period last from 6 months to 3 years, I am not kidding at all, It's in spanish, anyone that knows some spanish will understand in the 2nd page at the end of the very first paragraph, it says:
" periodo ventana, la cual puede tener una duración de seis meses a tres años ",
that translates into
" window period, which can last anything from 6 months to 3 years "
here is the link
" http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:Nsm4mTmtf5UJ:www.citedi.mx/portal/files/inicio/CF-345.pdf+vih+periodo+ventana+mexico&hl=es&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=mx "
and there are plenty of stories about mythic seroconversions at XX ammount of months, the legendary nurse that seroconverted after 6 months at thebody.com for example, etc..
now what??
If you have everyone that has a reputable history telling you that the WP is 3 months long, then the window period is 3 months long! why would you believe me, or frank or dexter? nobody of us should be surfing the net to get this info.
HIV is a serious matter, we should be asking our doctors face to face about our worries, preferably one with extensive experience in HIV matters and stick to what THEY say, in your country, in your very own case.
just a few hours ago I found a document saying window period last from 6 months to 3 years, I am not kidding at all, It's in spanish, anyone that knows some spanish will understand in the 2nd page at the end of the very first paragraph, it says:
" periodo ventana, la cual puede tener una duración de seis meses a tres años ",
that translates into
" window period, which can last anything from 6 months to 3 years "
here is the link
" http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:Nsm4mTmtf5UJ:www.citedi.mx/portal/files/inicio/CF-345.pdf+vih+periodo+ventana+mexico&hl=es&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=mx "
and there are plenty of stories about mythic seroconversions at XX ammount of months, the legendary nurse that seroconverted after 6 months at thebody.com for example, etc..
now what??
CDC send me Hiv testing Booklet and its says 3 months from exposer and 6 months are rare . If that was case 5 years whats the sence of making testing then at 3 months it will be all kind of lawsults. then people can sued CDC and FDA Doctors ! On and On .
your neighbor was probably quoting the nurses who were coinfected. Those are the only cases that have EVER taken that long.
Bravo Frank and Dex!
Thanks for taking us back to 2001 and to the fabulous 6 months window period. Absolutely! there are people turning positive at the 5 month left and right, I am sure CDC, Medhelp, Aidmeds are all morons and will sooner or later admit that they are setting us in a trap, that in fact we will all turn positive in the after 27th week after our pseudo-conslusive 3 month test.
Good that I read you guys! Now I will see the light! the medical world just got busted thanks to Frank and Dex.
but you know what? My neighbor is a nurse and she says that in fact she heard a rumor at her hospital people take a whole complete year after exposure to turn positive, not the week before a year is complete, only after a year. But to be aboslutely sure, test every 6 months for 5 years, only then you'll be 94% sure that you are not infected. If you want to be 100% sure then test forever. Interesting, huh? I am just saying, that's what she says.
Thanks for taking us back to 2001 and to the fabulous 6 months window period. Absolutely! there are people turning positive at the 5 month left and right, I am sure CDC, Medhelp, Aidmeds are all morons and will sooner or later admit that they are setting us in a trap, that in fact we will all turn positive in the after 27th week after our pseudo-conslusive 3 month test.
Good that I read you guys! Now I will see the light! the medical world just got busted thanks to Frank and Dex.
but you know what? My neighbor is a nurse and she says that in fact she heard a rumor at her hospital people take a whole complete year after exposure to turn positive, not the week before a year is complete, only after a year. But to be aboslutely sure, test every 6 months for 5 years, only then you'll be 94% sure that you are not infected. If you want to be 100% sure then test forever. Interesting, huh? I am just saying, that's what she says.
All the information regarding the tests can be found here.
http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite?page=kb-00&doc=kb-02-02-01
http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite?page=kb-00&doc=kb-02-02-01
http://www.biomerieux-diagnostics.com/upload/HIV_Ultra.jpg
The above chart says any 3rd generation can detect infection from 5th weeks? any one can commment pls.
The above chart says any 3rd generation can detect infection from 5th weeks? any one can commment pls.
Thanks, and can you please reply to my e-mail about my lady friend. I appreciate this.
A 4th generation test is a 3rd generation ELISA with an antigen detection layer.
If anything the Antibody detection is slightly less sensitive on a 4th generation than in a 4rd generation.
If anything the Antibody detection is slightly less sensitive on a 4th generation than in a 4rd generation.
yes in my case when I tested at 6.5 weeks also the lady who did orasure said it could detect if there were antibodies at this time. Is this true?
ok, thanks, on Baller's behalf; when I tested yesterday,with Oraquick, the lady said, one mont is very encouraging. So does that mean it is as realible as as ELiza?
I couldnt find what generation it is, you can contact orasure and ask them, but they said that window period for their test is 3 months,
Xhost has hit the nail right on the head.
In Australia many labs stop testing at 6 weeks, Massuachusetts agree with it and so does Dr HHH and Dr Ewh
Most of the 4th generation tests detect HIV as early as 2-3 weeks and 6 weeks is a kind of padding to be on the safe side to detect the vast majority
See this chart from the VIDAS duo manufacturers , which is claimed to be the most sensitive:
http://www.biomerieux-diagnostics.com/upload/HIV_Ultra.jpg
In Australia many labs stop testing at 6 weeks, Massuachusetts agree with it and so does Dr HHH and Dr Ewh
Most of the 4th generation tests detect HIV as early as 2-3 weeks and 6 weeks is a kind of padding to be on the safe side to detect the vast majority
See this chart from the VIDAS duo manufacturers , which is claimed to be the most sensitive:
http://www.biomerieux-diagnostics.com/upload/HIV_Ultra.jpg
Yeah, Thats what they say in Canada.... 6 months to be sure.
But with what I;ve learned on this forum. if you are 12 week neg, then move on....
Health Protection Scotland said 6 months 'just to be sure'.
A couple of GUM clinics said if the person is known positive then testing out to 6 months might be appropriate.
A couple of GUM clinics said if the person is known positive then testing out to 6 months might be appropriate.
I'm a little skeptical on the 3 month guidline. The Doctors say most high risk people couldn't state when their risk was. The data in the epidemiological studies may be based on the last reported risks of all the individuals.Who knows, the majority of actual infections may have taken place before the last possible risk skewing all the datasets to a shorten window period. Then again perhaps not.
BASHH in their guidelines have a disclaimer or two:**Observational data are limited** [References 8-14], but in ten years of application of the 'three months rule' by all members of the UK HIV Laboratory Forum no reports of its failure have been received, and thus it is recommended that ***in general*** the three month rule continues to be applied 15. [Reference IV C]
The Health Protection Agency also leave it to the discretion of a clinician whether to test out past the 12 week *guideline*.
BASHH in their guidelines have a disclaimer or two:**Observational data are limited** [References 8-14], but in ten years of application of the 'three months rule' by all members of the UK HIV Laboratory Forum no reports of its failure have been received, and thus it is recommended that ***in general*** the three month rule continues to be applied 15. [Reference IV C]
The Health Protection Agency also leave it to the discretion of a clinician whether to test out past the 12 week *guideline*.
The CDC, WHO, UNAIDS, Europe guidelines, says that the window period is 12 weeks, this is becouse they have to be very conservative on their guidelines, and becouse not all the testing facilities has the same generation test or not all use aproveed test, for an example in Australia the window period is just 6 week, this is becouse all their testing facilities has 3rd and 4th generation test, and only a few but very good aproveed tests, so until all the testing facilities around the world has and stadarization of tests, is not probable that the guidelines will change to the 6 week window period, you can find figure of the window period regarding each kind of test on this link, and this comes from ROCHE that is one of the biggest medical industries and that propably have more scientist working there that in the CDC
http://www.roche-hiv.com/portal/eipf/pb/hiv/Roche-HIV/first-line_diagnosis;jsessionid=H9P788Z1313xnxbdN0R26vvG5rthpHfcbcQCw2BhxS0wJMx2Zb2B!-1520863363_DARGS=/portal/templates/rochehiv/page/html/searchInPageTemplate.jsp
http://www.roche-hiv.com/portal/eipf/pb/hiv/Roche-HIV/first-line_diagnosis;jsessionid=H9P788Z1313xnxbdN0R26vvG5rthpHfcbcQCw2BhxS0wJMx2Zb2B!-1520863363_DARGS=/portal/templates/rochehiv/page/html/searchInPageTemplate.jsp
i actually got tseted after 3 weeks, it was negative but im worried about all that window period ... what is the percentage that it could be positive, ??? like i read nonone had seen taht but hter is a chance i really want to know, im worried you know, im still on 4 weeks since all happend. so .... ofcourse i don' t know, could you tell me me if it could be positive? in 2 weeks? i
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