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A Simple Question ... Maybe

A simple question
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Avatar universal
I am confused.  The reasons for PVCs and PACs are well understood. Any cardio or EP should be able to confirm that they are the result of firing of island(s) of electrical cardiac tissue located near enough to the pacemaker circuits to cause a premature beat.  Not complicated.  We all have them, some more than others.

The current thinking is that these electrically-active islands are located in regions of the heart wall/PV ostia where only structural cardiac tissue is really needed.  But as evolution and fate would have it, nature didn't think it too important to be too careful about constructing the heart.  Basically, we procreated well enough with or without these beasts in our chests.

I think the most significant problem facing the PVC/PAC sufferer is anxiety and OCD.  I know I fell victim to it myself and I see it discussed throughout this forum and others.  The anxiety feeds upon itself, and leads to both a heightened awareness and a worsening condition (more skips).  There's nothing I can say that will make you feel better.  But I can say that I solved the problem for myself, because I realized that I was becoming victim to a curious version of OCD.  Maybe it's self-realization that is required as the critical first step...once you truly believe you understand the problem and that it's not critical, it's just the way your are constructed, and if you don't stop worrying about losing your life to an imagined runaway arrythmia, you will lose it to an obsession instead.  Your choice.

-Arthur


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Avatar universal
Your problem may be related to pre-menopause.  I read that several woman experience pulpitations of the heart durring and before and after menopause due to increased hormones in the blood and that they are nothing to worry about.  I know how frustrating and scarry they can be. Hang in there :)

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Avatar universal
I am currently going through an extended period (several days) of almost constant PVCs.  Previously I have had intermittent ones.  I was concerned enough to see my GP who did an EKG and said they were PVCs, probably nothing to worry about, but I might want to see a cardiologist.  I've made an appointment for next week, by which time hopefully they will have subsided.  I am 57, pre-menopausal, believe it or not.  I would guess this episode is stress related, as I am caring for my 4 month old grandson and my husband, who usually is here to help, is out of town for 2 weeks.  So there is the additional worry that I will keel over while holding or bathing the baby, or while driving with him in the car.  Does anyone else experience headaches when they are having PVC episodes?  My headache could be caused by lack of sleep too, since I'm too dumb to go to sleep early, even knowing the baby will be here at 7 a.m.

Anyway, I find this forum very helpful, just knowing I'm not alone in this problem.
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Avatar universal
There is no doubt this site is very helpful. It has been of great support to me. I've been having PVCs since I was 21--9 years ago. I've had several EKGs and an event monitor and was told that they were benign and nothing to worry about. They usually kick up at a rate of 1 every minute or two for a few weeks to a few months and then go away for a year or two. Every time they start up again, I get worried thinking "well, they were benign last time, but is this something different?" I don't have any other heart problems--no rapid beating, no lightheadedness, dizziness or anything like that. Just the PVCs and I can totally understand how consuming and debilitating they can be. I workout 5-6 days a week and I find when I'm having one of those PVC periods, I work out harder. Not only do the PVCs go away when I speed up my heart, but it makes me so tired at night that I can sleep. I know that if I didn't work out I'd lay up all night just kind of listening to my heart beat. It's so nice to be able to come on here and listen to all of you talk about--I tell my family or friends when I get worried and they all say "what's be worried about--you've had it diagnoses as benign, it's not a problem, why worry." But you just can't help but think "this is my heart" and to not get worried.

Anyway, thank you all for sharing your stories on this site--I am currently in one of my PVC periods. It started about a month ago and I had about a week of PVCs at the rate of one every minute or two. Then it calmed down for a couple weeks to one every 5-10 minutes. But in the past few days it's started up again and is going at once a minute or so and sometimes even more frequently. It's nice to know that other people are going through the same kind of thing.
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Avatar universal
Thanx for your help.

As a matter of fact, Tuesday, March 9th, it will be three weeks since I had a new ablation procedure performed.  (My cardiac surgeon had only performed ONE when I scheduled mine!)

It's called a "thoracoscopic Maze procedure".  The surgeon went in between my ribs (on both sides - deflating each lung in turn) and used the 'scope and manipulated the instruments from outside the chest wall to burn off pieces of the heart from OUTSIDE the heart.  I liked the stats I was given (they've done over 50 of these in the U.S.):  he said there was a 70-90% chance this would prevent PAF and there was "practically zero" risk of clots or stroke.  I was given only 30-60% chance that the old procedure MIGHT cause 75% fewer episodes, and of course being INSIDE the heart, risk of clots was there.

So far, I'm very pleased.  After a few days of heavy pounding PVC'S (but never atrial fib.), I'm feeling good.  My energy level is up, and out of the past six days I've only had ONE day when I felt the pounding and weakness. (Little bio:  I am ONLY 55 and formerly an active fitness trainer - Masters degree - with no other health problems.  My heart is structurally sound and all parameters - cholesterol, etc. - are otherwise normal.  I was living a very busy, hectic life with lotsa caffeine, etc, and feel that is what contributed to the atrial fib. to start two years ago.)

My surgeon has people lined up to have this new procedure done.  I was number five!  

I am optimistic that this is the way to go for those of us who could not lead normal lives due to the a. fib.  I hope my having this "experimental" procedure can help others.  I'm now looking forward to getting a full time job WITH MEDICAL BENEFITS! Yay! (Only not so stressful!)

Unfortunately, this procedure is so new that my cardiac surgeon (in Sacramento) is the only one who does these on the west coast.  They have been doing them in Massachusetts and Florida, apparently.  

If anyone is interested, I can give them more info.  

- Cathy

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Avatar universal
When I had PAF I used to get the same kind of weakness you described.  I believe that the irregularity of the beats does two things: (1) induces an anxiety and (2), makes the heart a less efficient pump (that's because the atria are fluttering about while the ventricles pick up the beat once in awhile.  Both these effects could contribute to the feeling of weakness.  Ever since the ablation (3 years now), I have had no recurrence of the PAF, although there are some PACs and even an occassional PAC attack (5-15 min of PACs at 6+/min), and during this time I have resumed a strenuous athletic regimen.

Perhaps you should discuss an ablation with your EP.  Drugs only reduce the occurence and length of PAF episodes, and they have their own side effects (like feeling tired and weak).

Wishing you the best.

-Arthur
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Avatar universal
This forum is soooo helpful.

My question is:  does anyone get weak and faint with their irregular heartbeats?

I can't work anymore, am therefore in dire financial straits, and am considered "uninsurable" now with my paroxysmal atrial fib., so can't get medical insurance.

How do you cope with the faintness and/or weakness?  How do you live a normal life when you don't know when you'll be passing out?  

My husband is so nervous whenever I go somewhere alone.  He's had to rescue me several times....thank God for cell phones.  

Does anyone else have this problem?  My PAC's/PVC's may be "benign", but my weakness gets so bad I can barely beathe or speak sometimes.

Any comments?
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Avatar universal
Hi Everyone,  I am so glad to find this site and the support of all the people.  It is very informative. I'm sure you are helping people that don't even post and just read the articles. I have the flip flopping and pounding or excenuated heart beat.  I am on atenolol..25 mg a day which I was told low dose.  I am wondering if the atenolol has made them worse.  I tried stopping the atenolol one time and when I got to the day that I didn't have to take one my heart felt like it was going every which way and felt so shakey inside.  So I went back on the antenolol.  I was taking high doses of herbs and vitamins a few years ago including glucusamine and calcium. It's then that my heart pounding and flipping started.  The doc said it was just anxiety but I had been through a round of this a few years prior when I tried taking Ginka Baloba (misspelled for sure)...it sent me to the Cardiologist. My immune system is very weird when it comes to supplements...I even ache all over from them and doctors can't explain why.  I am just up in the air about trying to just cut my dose of atenolol maybe in half and take it that way for a longer amount of time then I did about a year ago when I was trying to get off it to see if it helped.  I also had a hesterectomy about 3 years ago and started taking hormones and it raised my blood pressure.  I came off the hormones and my blood pressure is down but part is probably contributed to taking the atenolol.  I know I am rambling...thank you for listening.  And I am very curious about the MSG thing.
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Avatar universal
Hi Everyone,  I am so glad to find this site and the support of all the people.  It is very informative. I'm sure you are helping people that don't even post and just read the articles. I have the flip flopping and pounding or excenuated heart beat.  I am on atenolol..25 mg a day which I was told low dose.  I am wondering if the atenolol has made them worse.  I tried stopping the atenolol one time and when I got to the day that I didn't have to take one my heart felt like it was going every which way and felt so shakey inside.  So I went back on the antenolol.  I was taking high doses of herbs and vitamins a few years ago including glucusamine and calcium. It's then that my heart pounding and flipping started.  The doc said it was just anxiety but I had been through a round of this a few years prior when I tried taking Ginka Baloba (misspelled for sure)...it sent me to the Cardiologist. My immune system is very weird when it comes to supplements...I even ache all over from them and doctors can't explain why.  I am just up in the air about trying to just cut my dose of atenolol maybe in half and take it that way for a longer amount of time then I did about a year ago when I was trying to get off it to see if it helped.  I also had a hesterectomy about 3 years ago and started taking hormones and it raised my blood pressure.  I came off the hormones and my blood pressure is down but part is probably contributed to taking the atenolol.  I know I am rambling...thank you for listening.  And I am very curious about the MSG thing.
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Avatar universal
Hi,

"MSG is derived from either seaweed or soy, both of which are'natural', and is used to increase the protein content of foods."

There's no strong evidence linking MSG to health problems. In Japan, many consume MSG in large amounts yet their heart disease rate is low and live much longer than most people of other countries. I wouldn't worry too much about MSG as long as we don't consume too much of it.

Seaweed is a rich source of minerals including those that regulate your heartbeats (potassium and magnesium). I eat them occasionally, especially in soups. Just eat a variety of plants. Too much of a single plant isn't gonna help you.

Most heart diseases are caused by several factors, not just a single factor. Many once thought only excessive cholesterol would cause heart attacks. Now, we know it isn't true. Inflammation is a strong factor in creating heart disease. Bacterial infections can cause heart diseases - just not keeping your teeth clean can cause heart problems.

Eating a diet low in fat can reduce inflammation. Fat cells like to carry inflammation agents so less fat is better. If you want to have a moderate fat diet, fine but just eat the right kinds of fats and exercise enough to keep your body burning fats efficiently.

I do suspect inflammation caused by infections can cause PVC's. I remember when I was taking antibiotics, PVC's disappeared. When I finished it, it came back. But that's one time incident - could be coincidence.

-jeff
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Avatar universal
Not to beat this point to death, but I must impose one more comment on the MSG thing. I do not consider benign arrythmias to be 'heart disease', therefore, I am not claiming MSG, seaweed or soy to cause heart disease. Seaweed or soy in it's natural form are a healthy addition to anyone's diet, including my own. When the body ingests glutamate at levels significantly higher than other amino acids (ie proteins), the glutamate will be absorbed and the others not so greatly.

Glutamate is a cellular irritant, studied particularly in the nervous system. It is well documented in the nutritional literature to contribute to arrythmias in some people. The incomplete list of ingredients in my previous post are converted by the body to glutamate after ingestion.

Eliminating these has changed my life, I mearly humbly share my experience for others.

Good luck to you all, and thanks for this forum.
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Avatar universal
You sound like you're experiencing a very common arrhythmia, often refered to as a PAC or PVC.  These things are caused by islands of electrical cardiac tissue usually located in a part of the heart where only structural tissue is needed.  They result in premature beats...ie, you may feel your heart skip a beat (actually it's very faint, so you don't normally notice it) followed by a make up beat (which will feel pronounced).  These things occur in everyone from time to time, because we all have those little islands.  For some folks these islands can be quite active and may involve alternate pathways in the heart which lead to significant arrhythmias.  

You have described the kind of arrhythmia that is typically produced following exercise (adrenaline-related).  Again, often these islands respond to increased adrenaline and fire off signals more intensely for a while.  I would suggest seeking out an educated opinion from a cardiologist or EP to make sure nothing else is going on...but from my experience (which is similar to yours), it sounds like a relatively benign problem.

Why they showed up now is a subject for debate, but it's likely that the "islands" were always there, but with age and exercise, your heart muscle has expanded and spaces between cells have most likely created a channel through which the electrical noise they generate could travel.  Another factor which controls how well this noise travels is the state of your nervous system...it is responsible, in part, for regulating how quickly cardiac signals travel through cardiac tissue...so if your autonomic nervous system is charged up (like after exercise), it's once again likely that the electronic freeway is opened for business.

I am no expert, just someone with PACs, who has gotten over it and leads a normal life (playing soccer at age 56).  Watch out that you don't develop an OCD about this thing...it will consume you.  Just get the facts from the doc and address the issue logically.

Good Luck!

-Arthur
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Avatar universal
>>Can anyone tell me what I could be experiencing? and if it is serious? Thank you so much<<

It sounds like an arrhythmia and it probably isn't serious because most of them aren't BUT that isn't a diagnosis! No one -- including your doctor - can make an accurate diagnosis ( only an informed guess) without seeing these heartbeats that are bothering you on an EKG... you need to be assertive and insist on an event monitor. You will wear this  pager sized device  hooked to a couple of small electrodes on your chest while you exercise and afterwards, all the time except when bathing, and push a little button when you feel the weird heartbeats. That will record that part , and the beats before and after it occured will be stored, too.. you send it in over the phone. THAT's how to find out for sure. Otherwise, bud, you are just guessing.. why do that? Just INSIST  you need to get to the bottom of these palps.

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Avatar universal
I really enjoy reading in this forum.  It makes me feel like mayby I found a place where someone will listen to me and beleive me! About 3 weeks ago I was working out at our local weight facility.  I hadnt been lifting for a while and did upper and lower body for an hour.  About a half hour later as I was driving home I got a fluttering feeling in my chest.  I felt that it was deffinitly from my heart so I began to worry that I had done something to my heart lifting.  I pulled over and began to feel my pulse and about every 6th beat I would get a fluttery feeling whitch was almost liek a horribly mutated beat and pause followed by a strong beat and then normal beating again.  This happened for a few more times then I got scared becuase I thought I was having a heart attack becuase I had never felt that before.  I didnt feel any pain though or lightheadedness, fatigue.  I did however feel a slight shortness of breath durring the fluttery feeling.  I increased my heart rate dramtically in my panic and when I got to my parents house I told them what happened and they didnt think it was a big deal.  I slept over there and after I calmed down I seemed to be ok.  It stopped after my heartrate rose due to being scared.  I scheduled a physical with my doctor and during the physical I told him everything and also that I was on decongestant Medication (H-C Tussive Syrup and Amoxicillin 500mg Capsules).  He listened to my heart and told me that my heart sounded very healthy with no sign of murmer and it could have been a nervious system thing due to the medication I was on as well as the excessive lifting of upper and lower body.  About 4 days later, after a night of working out again I felt it again in my room as I was relaxing about to go to sleep.  It was about a couple hours after my workout.  I felt my heart do it about 3 times then I sat up because I was scared again.  I havnt felt it again for 3 days now.  I started researching online and came to the conlution I may be experiencing an arythmia.  Can anyone tell me what I could be experiencing? and if it is serious?  Thank you so much.
Chris
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Avatar universal
Thank you all for your input.  I really appriciate it.  If I feel these weird beats again I will go insist on an event monitor.  It comforts me a lot.  It's nice to have a place online to talk to other's with similar experiences.  Now I can feel a little more secure about my health. Thank you all.

Chris
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Avatar universal
I agree with you, esp about the essential fatty acid supplements (omega-3 and others). But, in my new glorious, fabulous PVC/bigeminy/trigeminy/atrial flutter/SVT/PAC/palp-free life, I wouldn't go anywhere near a 'natural' protein shake. MSG is derived from either seaweed or soy, both of which are'natural', and is used to increase the protein content of foods.
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Avatar universal
If you think it's diet-related, try fasting for a couple of days. Drink plenty of water. Drink natural protein drinks. Take a complete nutritional supplement. If your PVC's drop signigicantly during fasting, that could mean that you're eating food that "irritate" your heart.

Also, increase your intake of omega-3 acids. Your body needs it. Without it, it will cause heart problems. Omega-3 acids lubricates your heart membranes and promote electrical stability. That is exactly why people who have high level of omega-3 acids in their blood have the lowest risk of fatal heart attacks.

Eat LOTS fo plants. There's NO limit to how much you can eat plants. The darker the color, the better it is for your body. Don't eat too much of the same plant. Your body will thank you for that.  

I get occasional PVC's. I noticed that how I eat affects my frequency of PVC's.

-jeff
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Avatar universal
jan
You have a right to your medical records which includes your tests.  My primary told me to get mine from my specialists and to keep my records.  I do get most and when I do I take them to the computer and do lots of searching, I find it all so interesting.  In the beginning I did it, because I was testing positive and didn't know a blessed thing, and wanted to find out the normal treatments.  So, get them and search.  It took me awhile to find out some chgs./differences are nothing to worry about, it's good when you get to that point.

I rarely am alarmed by palpitations (with the inappropriate sinus tachy I didn't feel any even @ 170bpm).  I had to have an event monitor for a good while and asked the cardio if it would be alright when I feel the different palps if I could record them, he said yes.  It was really interesting, I found out I was having various palps.  None to worry about.  If anybody gets an event monitor ask about recording all the different palps (maybe that is why you will be wearing one in the 1st place, mine was for syncope).

I will confess to having moments here and there where I stop and pay attn. and wonder if anything will become of my palps.  The other night my heart really fluttered and since I am withdrawing from pain meds (Oxycontin and Neurontin) it was one of those such moments.

Maybe if you do a search on the net, particularly Yahoo Groups, you will find a support group to meet your needs.  If not, you can make one, it's really easy.

Hugs

P.S.  I have read it helps if you make sure you are well hydrated, too.

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Avatar universal
RNJ
Reading the archives of this forum have been very informative but,as with most people, my case has some uniquness to address. My husband is 50 years old, has always been thin, has normal cholesterol and blodd pressure. He was diagnosed with microvalve prolapse as a child but it has never caused him any particular problems until recently. About 6 months ago he called me at work thinking he was having a heart attack. We went to the hopsital--his doctor was away-but the attending physician gave him an EKG. He said he had an arrythmia, and that his heart appeared to actually skip a beat during the brief EKG. The blood test indicated that he had not had a heart attack. A stress test was rec.but as he has no ins. he elected against it and went on about his daily routine. We are fish-eating vegetarians. His one bad habit is coffee. 3 or 4 cups a day, but he cannot be convince to give it up. Today after he got out of the shower he came into the living room and sat down saying he was experiencing the same racing of his heart as the day he had called me at work. He also felt dizzy. He has also been complaining about a constant pain in the upper left quadrant of his abdomen. He says he wakes up tired and feels like he hasn't been breathing at night. Sorry this is so long, but more info is beter, right? RNJ
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Avatar universal
Most excellent question. Everyone is different. For me, when I read about it then went through my pantry and fridge, virtually everything I was buying had these additives, including energy bars, veggie burgers, frozen organic Amy's Kitchen dinners, and my beloved soy milk. I thought I was going to have to eat grass and twigs.

The only real drastic change I've made is eliminating the 2-4 energy bars a day I was eating. I spend more time in the kitchen, and ALOT of time in the store reading labels. Some soy milk brands, veggie burgers etc have the additives, but others don't. Pretty much anything you add boiling water to and get a meal is out. Too bad for me.

My best recommendation is to go on line and read about MSG (specifically glutamine), read the labels of what you eat, and see if it helps you. Interestingly, in the literature, magnesium supplements have been shown to block the effects of glutamine (MSG). Many in this forum have had benefit from magnesium.....hmmmmmm.

My intake was impressive, while appearing to be a healthy diet, and eliminatining it has completely cured me. I even drink red wine and caffinated coffee again without a problem. How it effects others I don't know, and will mine return, we'll see.

Good luck!
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Avatar universal
what should we eat then, please make a outline for us to follow  it looks good
thank
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Avatar universal
I am a physician, in her 40's, living the protoytpic healthy California lifestyle, with specific attention to a healthy diet. After reading someone else's post about MSG, I looked into it. MSG is prevelent in all canned foods, frozen foods, tofu products and esp in energy bars like Balance and Power bars. It is used to increase the protein content of foods. It is generally NOT listed as MSG, but usually 'yeast extract', soy protein isolate, hydrolyzed vegetable protein, natural flavoring, and in the case of energy bars, sodium or calcium caseinate. These are just a few of ingredients in foods with MSG.

I have completely eliminated these from my diet with resulting complete resolution of my impressive number of PVC/PAC's. To test it, I had a glass of soy milk (containing 'natural flavors') with return of my excercised induced fluttering.

I urge you to look at your diet.
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Avatar universal
I had an echocardiogram 2 years ago and due for another around May.  My doc said to come back in March and he would schedule another one.  The bicuspid aortic valve was found in the echo and so was the regurg.  My problem is no one will tell me anything about the results except, "You're fine".  

I had a stress test and got PAC's while on the treadmill.  If there were something more serious, like blockage or something else, they would have noticed it then wouldn't they?

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Avatar universal
It is interesting to see there are so many comments to this post. It is my understanding and experience that multiple pac's can lead to atrial tachycardia, but I am told that isn't lethal either. Does anyone notice these things causing palpatations
at times?  eating, reaching over my head, bending over, clothes that are confining around the waist, stomach growling, and heavy lifting.  I wonder if it has anything to do with changes in blood pressure.  I am not a big person 5'5" 106 pounds and my blood pressure gets low at times 78 over 48 sometimes even lower, I am on low dose beta blocker, the low blood pressure does not affect me too much just cold all the time in sunny California. Also there are heart suport groups in most places. I go to one monthly and it has helped me to realize that as bad as my situaion seems to me at times, there are so many people that have gone through much worse with their hearts and are still with us and finding ways to cope. That helps me a lot when my arrhythmia gets bad. I think having a good understanding doctor makes all the difference in the world. Mine always says there is no magic bullet for this, and I am sure if there were one this doc would find it.

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