Concern over PVCs and MVP

[fearfactor]

I realize that there are many, many questions about PVCs in this forum, but I am very concerned.  I have mild MVP - findings on echo are trace mitral regurge, redundant mitral valve tissue, but no prolapse.  I also have PACs and PVCs, which were controlled with Toprol XL 12.5 mg a day.  I got off Toprol, but have had to get back on due to increasing PVCs. I have severe panic disorder as well.

My question relates to sudden cardiac death/risk for v-tach and ventricular fibrillation.  I've heard that people with mitral valve redundancy are at an increased risk for SCD.  I was told by my cardio and family doctor that I can exercise as much as I want, not to worry about PVCs, etc., but I'm still very concerned.  When I have a panic attack or am nervous, I feel palpitations that feel like fluttering in my chest.  I'm scared I'm going into V-tach.  I have no insurance so I can't get a holter right now.  I'm basically just trying to reassure myself that I have no increased risk of SCD and what the relationship between MR redundancy and SCD is.  Also, will the Toprol help to protect me against any dangerous arrhythmias?

Thanks so much for taking my question.  I know you all are probably sick of hearing from people afraid of PACs and PVCs but as you know they can be extremely distressing.
Thanks,
Stacy

[CCF-M.D.-MJM]

Hi fearfactor,

Sorry to hear about your insurance situation. I am sure that provides significant stress as well.

My question relates to sudden cardiac death/risk for v-tach and ventricular fibrillation. I've heard that people with mitral valve redundancy are at an increased risk for SCD.

If you have mild MVP and do not have severe MR (specifically a cordal rupture), you should not be at increased risk for suddend death.  Go exercise.

Toprol decreases the sensation of palpitations.  It is not being used in your case to decrease your risk of arrythmia.  If I were you I would worry about getting your anxiety problems under control -- that is more likely to relieve your fear of arrhythmia.  From what you describe, you are not increased risk of sudden death or VT.

Good luck!

[tickertock]

Hi,

   I understand your concerns, nearly 5 years ago I was given an echo and desribed as having a redundancy of the mitral leaflets without any prolapse of the valve or any regurgitation, about 2 weeks I had another echo, it was  suggested I get one every 3-5 years, this time I was told i have no redundancy(very mild and insignificant even if I do) of the mitral leaflets and no leakages whatsoever  all done by the same cardiologist. This redundancy of the mitral leaflets and SCD only apply to persons with a prolapse of the mitral valve with signifiacnt regurgitation along with other rare problems associated with MVP or so I am told, even then it is rare or so I am made to understand, this too has caused me unnecessary worry and anxiety, it is amazing when you get reassured how the anxiety level goes down and even the PVCs subside.

I realise that I have wasted alot my life worrying about a problem thats not really problem at all, don't let the same thing happen to you as I suspect, though I am not a doctor that you have nothing to fear as well.

My cardio this time was even less concerned about about the mild LVH that had developed than when it was upper the limits of normal, though I do suffer from elevated high blood pressure that has to be controlled.

I realise most of my worries has actually contributed to my HBP and other problems that could have been avoided if I not been overly concerned with insignificant findings that really didn't have any impact on my overall prognosis concerning the little heart issues that I thought was big deal that was no big deal at all. I am trying my best to put my fears and worries behind and catch back up on the years I have wasted worrying for no reason at all, even in the last 2 weeks I have noticed a change, proably only one PVC that I have been aware of that's about the longest in about 15 years that i went without feeling any, that in itself makes me feel even more positive and even if they do return, I know that i really have nothing to fear from them, but the fear of them. Good luck and don't dwell too much into what you read or hear, even though knowledge is great, most of that doesn't apply to the average  person with a normal cardiac work up.

[tickertock]

what i meant to say I was given another echo exactly 2 weeks ago, not 2 weeks after the first one as it might appear to read.

[fearfactor]

Thank you!  Your reply has already reassured me.  I forgot to mention it in my question, but I'm 32, female and healthy.  I guess I don't fit into the category of people that need to be concerned, and I really do let myself get WAY too worried about this stuff.  Thanks for the reassurance.
Stacy

[Art S.]

Good luck dealing with your symptoms, ff. I have pvc's and pac's and some mild regurgitation, with esophagitis thrown in to boot. The combination of all those things can put me on my butt. Just got off of a bad weekend. But most days are good and I find that the exercise really helps. I have lost some weight and the increase in self esteem from that has helped out dealing with the palps as well. It took a long time to trust what my doctor was telling me. I ultimately had an angiogram after one attack of horrendous chest pain, and I had no blockage to speak of. I guess I got tired of going to the emergency room. Trust your doctor and keep on keeping on with whatever you like doing.

Art S.

[hapecamper]

i have had pvc's for 25 yrs. all test show normal i mostly get pvc's and pac's when my heart rate gets down in the 50's when i am sitting when i stand   my hr is in the 90's i am not on any medication. the dr's say to put up with them I try not to worry about them but everytime  i get them i get scared. I tried atenolol one time just half of 25mg and it made my hr even lower. when my hr is low it last for a few hour's at a time. i am having a echo stress test tomorrow. Does your hr get low to when you have pvc's and do you have alot of weird and diffrent feeling ones?

[smp48]

I too have tried to go off Toprol because it makes me tired, but my heart pounds so hard when I don't have it for a few days. I was wondering if we can get addicted to it, or if our hearts really need it I understand your fear because we really need our heart and the fear of sudden death makes me scared also.   Since Drs. see so much of itthey forget how scared we are when we are told we have heart disease.I guess one good thing is, we wouldn't know huh?
This is a great site for support.

[fearfactor]

I do feel them more when my HR is lower, and I do get a bunch of different feeling ones.  I have ones that feel like my heart skips a beat and then a big thump and then I have ones that feel like vibrating either at my throat or deep in my chest.  All of them are horrible and scary, though!

[hapecamper]

I had a echo stress today and when I was hooked up I was finally getting some of the weirder pvc's but no one was in there when I was getting them so hopfully they recorded them some how. My hr also was at about 110 when lying down and when I stood up it was at 128bpm then when I got on the treadmill it only took a few seconds to reach 180 bpm,I was having a bit of a anxiety and I think thats why it went that high. then when I got home my hr was at 120 but my blood pressure was 90/59 it was up to 160/90 at the test. This is how it seems to always go in spurts low,high pvc's then fine for awhile. Thats what so frustrating because it is all over the place. DO you get like that to?

[fearfactor]

Yes, I went for a long time with almost no PVCS and then they started back with a vengeance.  I react badly to almost any medication I take and I had been trying some different SSRIs, so I think it got my system all messed up and started me having PAs again.  I haven't had the tachy in a long time, thankfully.  That was the main symptom when I was having PAs last year but now it's palpitations.  I wish it would just stop!

[upbeat63]

I wish they would just stop too. Trouble is, sometimes they come back, ugghh. And then you wonder why did they stop and why did they come back, is it different, is it worse, the anxiety starts all over.

I've been posting occassionally. Had PVC's since I was 18 (now I'm 42). Noticed some changes recently so I had a 48hr holter done and it showed 1220 PVCs on average every hour. Then I thought I should get an echo done because there is a slight chance the frequency could lead to something else. I don't think any of the doctors were pleased with my persistence, especially as the echo came back "normal", but they wouldn't give me ANY detail. Then all of a sudden I went out of bigeminy (every second beat a PVC), and I started having minute upon minute without them. What a relief. Well, now they are back and I actually have strings of PVCs at every beat. ugggh again. My heart rate is also all over the board, and I've noticed my blood pressure is too. I have insurance, but my deductible is so high,so I can really sympathize with you fearfactor,  this has really put a dent in my pocketbook. But there isn't anything more important.

I was prescribed toperol XL at 12.5mg/day, but now that I know my BP is all over the place, I'm not sure I want to take that.

I have to add like all the posts before, try to get on with your life, may be you just need to get more reassurance? Dealing with the panic is a good start. I think I have more PVCs when I'm really anxious. What a vicious circle. But with or without PVCs, or any arrrhythmia, it's ironic that we'll probably die of something else completely different! get out there and enjoy. lol.

[hapecamper]

I also am getting pvc's which seem every beat to every other for the last two days. I think I am gonna go back to acupuncture wasn't gettin them as bad or any when I when I was going

[upbeat63]

Do you think the acupuncture helped? What were your results? I mean, how many PVCs do you think you had before treatment compared to after an acupuncture treatment. Also, did you see results with just one treatment, or did you have to attend several sessions. I was thinking of trying that therapy, but haven't seen too much about treatment of PVCs with it. I don't want to be chasing therapies here and there, but since the experts don't know what cause PVCs, don't know why they come or why they go, well, it might be worth a try.

Just to share, I had years and years of pretty high frequency PVCs. Then in 2000 I had some deaths occur in the family. After it all settled down a bit, I had a hot stone massage in which the therapist "balanced my chakras". And the oddest thing happened when he removed the hot stone over my heart. It fluttered or buzzed for a couple of seconds. When I asked him about it, he said it was a release. (I hadn't told the therapist about the chronic PVCs or the deaths), and no joke, I was PVC free for several years until just a couple of months ago.

I'd be interested in your experience.

[hapecamper]

I did notice after a couple times it help but they told me that as many years I had them it would take some time. they have a college here so it was $17 a visit which wasn't bad. I had them here and there but not as frequent and they were very short runs of them. I was also just wondering does anyone get pvc's after heavy lifting sometimes?

[without a cause]

Hello, i have read all your articles on PVC's and MVP. I am a 34 year old male, that is very very concerned about my health. Both of my parents have had open heart. So, that kind of puts the icing on the cake for me. I guess after a struggle with anxiety and depression. I have more reason to feel like i feel. I have gone to the doctor plenty of time and have told him who i felt about my heart flutters. I don't even know if I have PVC's. But, reading your articles have open many doors for me. I've told the Dr. it doesn't last long at all. But how it really shakes me up physicaly and mentally. It's while i'm sitting,standing,walking at the mall and now excersing. That's a big struggle for me know. He want's me to wear a heart monitor for the next 48 hours. Just to see were we at. And start from there. And for the indivial asking about heavy lifting. I say yes. just last night. I was working out. And half way thur my work out. Is when i had a episode. That's what i call it. I was work on my shoulder presses. Weights above my head with dumb bells. Three sets of Ten. And boy did thous weight drop right next to my feet. The best way i can describe that feeling is. It's like, wiggling all four of your fingers for about three to five  seconds. So, I say yes. it does play a roll.And maybe in some people it's effects them different as well. I hope to read up on all your suggestions and some helpful hints to get my life back on track.

[reddlady]

I was diagnosed with pvc's and had an echo,ekg,stress test and they were all normal.  I'm a 39 b/f,non-smoker and in pretty good health, also have high b/p which is under control.  I was referred to a cardiologist who gave the stress test and who had read the echo, and has now put me on a 30-day holter to make sure nothing else is going on.  I never knew so many people were getting them until I read the message board one day at work.  Of course sitting here pressing the record button because I feel the pvc's is making me more aware that they exist.  I feel good most of the time and i too am on toprol for the b/p and palpitations and also magnesium oxide but still feel them, my potassium has also been low so I'm taking supplements for that,  I would like to know will they ever stop so that I can lead a normal life again without wondering if my heart is going to stop.  Everyday is received with how many will I have today, will I have to go to the ER?  What can I do to take my mind off these and stop worrying myself into more attacks?

[fearfactor]

I know, I worry myself to death (no joke intended!) over this.  Like someone said, we will probably all die at a ripe old age of something totally unrelated to palpitations and I wonder if I'll look back at all the life I've wasted worrying and regret it.  But right now, it seems so serious and horrible.  Strangely, I started taking birth control pills and today I have been pretty much palp-free.  Maybe my hormones were all out of whack and they are getting balanced by the pills.  I know some women have palps more when they start menopause - well, I'm only 32 so it's not menopause but it could be hormone fluctuations, I guess?  Does anyone here know more about how hormones affect their palps?  Also, the thing about the hot stone massage is interesting -  I might try that if my palps continue!

[upbeat63]

I think that my palpitations are definitely hormone related, at least as one of the causes, because, although I've had them since I can remember, they are so much worse now at age 42. I may be premenopause even though every thing is still like clockwork.

Two months ago I went from 24,000 PVCs per day into regular bigeminy just before my cycle, then almost regular rhythm right after. It was very frustrating because that was also the same time as my stress echo and they looked at me like they wondered why I was there.

This time around it's been strings of couplets and NSVT just before my cycle, and now I'm back to almost regular rhythm (10 to 20 PVCS a minute is almost regular rhythm to me!!)

I don't know if the hot stone massage will help the PVCs or not. It seemed like it did something for me or maybe it was coincidence but it was exceptionally coincidental. It was the "balancing the chakras" part, but the whole thing was very relaxing so gee, it can't hurt! I'd forgotten all about it until someone mentioned acupuncture earlier and then it came back to me. It's also been five years since I've noticed PVCs and I've had them since 18 years old. hummmmm, got to make that massage appointment, don't know what I've been waiting for! hee hee

[fearfactor]

You said you have couplets and NSVT - what do your doctors say about this?  I've heard they are not dangerous but then I've heard they are.  I'm worried about going into v-tach so I'm wondering if your doctors have mentioned a pacemaker to you (seems like I've read that people who go into v-tach have to have pacemakers?).  Also, what does NSVT feel like?  Have you ever thought of ablation?  I don't mean to pry, I'm just wondering what I may face down the road if my palps get worse!

[upbeat63]

Well, actually my doctor (only one--MD, I haven't seen a cardiologist this time around), she doesn't know that I have had an increase in PVCs or the nsvt. When I noticed a big change in my PVCs in May 05, I had a 48hr holter and it showed 24,000 single, unifocal PVCs/day, the cardiologist who read the study didn't think much of it (that was the feeling I got from the report) and also the feeling I got from my MD follow-up. When I requested an echo she scheduled it, but I think she was miffed that I asked for one. So I know what their answer would be now, they are benign, even at high frequency. If the symptoms bother you, try beta-blockers. And I know this would probably be the answer from any other doctor I saw too. So like I said in a different post,,,I'd just be chasing butterflies.

I have a stethescope, and I'm pretty familiar with my rhythm so I know when there are changes. But a holter monitor really helps to capture just how many and describe them more fully. The couplets and nsvt felt more like bubbling in my chest. I didn't like that feeling. I don't feel most of the PVCs, not even most of the bigeminy. So I guess I'm lucky there. I guess what I feel most is stress and anxiety. But like tickertock said in an earlier post, I try to tell myself it won't kill me, hasn't before, won't in the future, so it's hell for a little while and then the sun seems to shine through again and I carry on! Hope we all can do that.

[xanaxmick]

I am a 51yr/F. Never been to a cardiologist but had an echo done in 92 after my first round of problems with daily episodes of tachy. Work related stress-annual deadlines. This year I would only experience the quivering heart(PVC?)followed by tachy and high BP in the middle of the night,usually after waking up. A 1/2 tab .5 mg xanax(alprazolam)stopped the palps in 5 minutes and I was able to go back to sleep and work the next day! Now that the stress has subsided,I still waking with palps and elevated BP after unpleasant dreams. Which makes me wonder if my sleep hormones or sympathetic nervous system are causing problems. Because this problem won't go away, and I get concerned about the elevated BP (plus now more Colesterol) and the tachy is soooo scary. The doctor suggested a 24 hour halter monitor. Back in 92 I tried a beta blocker that helped but it made me feel breathless when I exercise. My doctor friend suggested taking the xanax before bed time but it is habit forming. My health plan provides 3 free stress management sessions per year. From reading the Heart Forum I think my problem may only be PVC's which I read somewhere are something you have to live with. I wonder if the palpatations harm the heart. Is it good to walk or perhaps use an exercise bicycle during the palps? Seems then there would be a physical purpose for the rapid rate. Any comments would be welcome.