Aa
Diagnosed with PFO
I had an episode where I gave myself a shot of Humira in my stomach and ten mins later did not feel well. I felt very sick which traveled up my left arm into the side of my head and pain into the left temple into my eye which started twitching. The numbness has really never left except to say that it feels asleep and waking up. The eye twitching has gotten better but it's a twitching that circles the entire left eye.
My doctor ran tests echocardiogram, stress test, ultasound of the artieries in my neck. The echo showed a hole in betweeen the two chambers of my heart. He then sent me to a cardiologist.....and a neurologist. I had an MRI of the brain and neck with Constrast and the MRI showed nothing, no evidence of stroke ...My Cardiologist did a TEE (which I will never have again since i was WIDE awake! The TEE confirmed the echocardiogram to show the hole.
Both specialists are undecided as to close the hole. Neurologist says it's caused by teeth grinding as for the reason for the numbness. however I never had this problem until i gave myself the shot. the heart doctor finds it very suspicious. The nuerologist wanted me to ask the dentist. The dentist said he has never heard of face going numb and eye twitching caused by ginding of teeth.
I have had this PFO all of my life and I have to say the only complaint I have ever had was shortness of breath and pure exhaustion even as a kid, as I grow older (46 yrs old) I find I can't do much at all..........Is all of this caused by this flap that is open and what diseases can this flap cause in the body
My doctor ran tests echocardiogram, stress test, ultasound of the artieries in my neck. The echo showed a hole in betweeen the two chambers of my heart. He then sent me to a cardiologist.....and a neurologist. I had an MRI of the brain and neck with Constrast and the MRI showed nothing, no evidence of stroke ...My Cardiologist did a TEE (which I will never have again since i was WIDE awake! The TEE confirmed the echocardiogram to show the hole.
Both specialists are undecided as to close the hole. Neurologist says it's caused by teeth grinding as for the reason for the numbness. however I never had this problem until i gave myself the shot. the heart doctor finds it very suspicious. The nuerologist wanted me to ask the dentist. The dentist said he has never heard of face going numb and eye twitching caused by ginding of teeth.
I have had this PFO all of my life and I have to say the only complaint I have ever had was shortness of breath and pure exhaustion even as a kid, as I grow older (46 yrs old) I find I can't do much at all..........Is all of this caused by this flap that is open and what diseases can this flap cause in the body
Well it seems to me they decided not posting here anymore. If you check on their profile you can see both stopped posting in 2008.
Anyway …welcome here!
Anyway …welcome here!
What has been the outcome and/or what did you decide? My symptoms are similar to both of you and I too have been diagnosed with PFO.
I was just recently diagnosed with a PFO. I went to my family doctor because I have been experiencing headaches/dizziness/nausea and my heart racing- waking me up in the middle of the night, breaking out in a sweat. Hurting between my shoulder blades on the right side. All of this has been going on for some time now. So, my doctor sent me to have some test run, an Echo was one of the test and it revealed a PFO, the Echo Tech showed it to me and told me it was a good size. So, I asked her if my symptoms could be caused by the PFO and she said yes. She asked me IF I have been having headaches. I have been having headaches for more than a year now.
She printed me out four pages off the computer about PFO's and the closing procedure.
Can PFO's cause this? I have heard yes and I have heard no. There are SO MANY conflicting opinions on PFO's.
I have heard to get the procedure to have it closed and I have heard that is NOT NECESSARY. Can someone HELP me? I am REALLY CONFUSED ABOUT ALL OF IT. And my concern is IF the PFO is not causing my symptoms, back to square one, what is? and my other concern is that my Father had a massive stroke at the age of 58 and my Grandmother at the age of 50. And I have heard that PFO's increase your chances for clots and strokes. Is this true? I am scheduled to go see a heart specialist May 20- what questions should I ask? I appreciate any help you can give me. Thank You
She printed me out four pages off the computer about PFO's and the closing procedure.
Can PFO's cause this? I have heard yes and I have heard no. There are SO MANY conflicting opinions on PFO's.
I have heard to get the procedure to have it closed and I have heard that is NOT NECESSARY. Can someone HELP me? I am REALLY CONFUSED ABOUT ALL OF IT. And my concern is IF the PFO is not causing my symptoms, back to square one, what is? and my other concern is that my Father had a massive stroke at the age of 58 and my Grandmother at the age of 50. And I have heard that PFO's increase your chances for clots and strokes. Is this true? I am scheduled to go see a heart specialist May 20- what questions should I ask? I appreciate any help you can give me. Thank You
Nope, not breathing. the whole embryologic concept is to bypass the respiratory system since is not working while in the womb.
The main problem, and really the only one is that it can transmit stuff normally inactivated in the lungs. (small embolus created in the legs). It will not cause shortness of breath or lung issues.
Unless you have clots that cause it on its own. (which walking an hour a day will prevent no matter).
I have seen this cause problems usually after surgery where you are in a hypercoagulated state (because you were cut open and your body has clotting factors run amuck). Hene you can get clots in the venous side. That can go to the lungs and cause lung problems.
In people witha a PFO, the risk is called paradoxical embolus. Rare, but means that the clot that is small and doesnt cause lung issues, in fact, the lungs deactivate the threat. Well that can cause a brain attack (TIA) because it crosses that hole and instead of being deactivated by the lungs, goes to the brain. Which cannot deactivate things. So a little sitting around, you got something form a little clot in your legs. Normally it goes to the lungs, no big deal. Instead since the inferior vena cava points right at the PFO. That little chunck of matter can go to the left heart, then ejected up into the carotid arteries. Next thing you know, you cant talk for a day or face droops.
A mini-stroke. It is so rare though, I didnt want to mention it. In one hospital I worked at, every patient who had a mini-stroke had a PFO bubble study. The problem is that, what do you with the diagnosis?
If you are lazy, sit around, or just had surgery, you can form blood clots in the lower leg from inactivity or also genetically prone to form those clots. You WANT to get short of breath from those. You do NOT want them going across that hole. All of which is not likely.
I guess what we are running into is that, although PFOs are common, nearly all the time do not cause issues. The truth is they can, but I do not want to needlessly worry you.
The things you speak of are completely not related to the PFO by sheer logic. A PFO is a mechanical malformation allowing embolus to cross. Taking a drug does NOT matter if you have a small connection between the two atria. Drugs are molecules, they pass through the blood stream, through the lungs in milliseconds. They will not be deactivated by the lungs such as will a tiny clot.
THE PFO IS SIMPLY A SMALL CONNECTION, A REMNANT FROM BIRTH, IT MECHANICALLY OBSTRUCTS SMALL CLOTS FROM THE LEGS FROM REACHING THE BRAIN. DRUGS ARE TINY MOLECULES, THEY WILL GO WHEREVER, CLOTS ARE A BILLION TIMES LARGER. THAT IS THE ONLY REASON TO WORRY ABOUT A PFO.
And even if someone didnt have a PFO, a large clot can punch through that flap anyhow. Hence, why you dont fix it normally, unless you want to because of knowing about it and it is ruining your life b/c of stress.
A PFO is common, it is much smaller than the birth defect called an atrial septal defect. Where there is a large hole b/c of embryology. Those often times they fix. A PFO can be incorrectly diagnosed. But if they say it is a PFO, I think they told you too much b/c you are worrying about it.
A PFO is simply a remnant of fetal circulation, it is common as brown hair. It is not going to kill you nor will it cause medication disturbances. There is a slightly higher risk of mini-stroke or stroke. That is because of a hole that allows clots that can form in the venous side of the circulation which is under low pressure and can simply join hands and form a clot. That normally goes to the lungs. If it is huge clot, it can kill someone called a pulmonary embolus. If you have a PFO it can cross and cause a stroke. PERIOD.
Molecules in the blood are so small, that medication does not have anything to do with a PFO.
If you had medication interactions, they are wholly separate than the PFO. Not to say you did not have a medication interaction. I have had them myself, in fact, I had a shot and I couldnt breathe one time and I thought I was having "The Big One". So I dont discount your feelings. But, alas, it is not from the PFO.
Its something else that caused it. Mine was the type of alcohol in the medication.
Hope that puts your mind at rest a bit.
The main problem, and really the only one is that it can transmit stuff normally inactivated in the lungs. (small embolus created in the legs). It will not cause shortness of breath or lung issues.
Unless you have clots that cause it on its own. (which walking an hour a day will prevent no matter).
I have seen this cause problems usually after surgery where you are in a hypercoagulated state (because you were cut open and your body has clotting factors run amuck). Hene you can get clots in the venous side. That can go to the lungs and cause lung problems.
In people witha a PFO, the risk is called paradoxical embolus. Rare, but means that the clot that is small and doesnt cause lung issues, in fact, the lungs deactivate the threat. Well that can cause a brain attack (TIA) because it crosses that hole and instead of being deactivated by the lungs, goes to the brain. Which cannot deactivate things. So a little sitting around, you got something form a little clot in your legs. Normally it goes to the lungs, no big deal. Instead since the inferior vena cava points right at the PFO. That little chunck of matter can go to the left heart, then ejected up into the carotid arteries. Next thing you know, you cant talk for a day or face droops.
A mini-stroke. It is so rare though, I didnt want to mention it. In one hospital I worked at, every patient who had a mini-stroke had a PFO bubble study. The problem is that, what do you with the diagnosis?
If you are lazy, sit around, or just had surgery, you can form blood clots in the lower leg from inactivity or also genetically prone to form those clots. You WANT to get short of breath from those. You do NOT want them going across that hole. All of which is not likely.
I guess what we are running into is that, although PFOs are common, nearly all the time do not cause issues. The truth is they can, but I do not want to needlessly worry you.
The things you speak of are completely not related to the PFO by sheer logic. A PFO is a mechanical malformation allowing embolus to cross. Taking a drug does NOT matter if you have a small connection between the two atria. Drugs are molecules, they pass through the blood stream, through the lungs in milliseconds. They will not be deactivated by the lungs such as will a tiny clot.
THE PFO IS SIMPLY A SMALL CONNECTION, A REMNANT FROM BIRTH, IT MECHANICALLY OBSTRUCTS SMALL CLOTS FROM THE LEGS FROM REACHING THE BRAIN. DRUGS ARE TINY MOLECULES, THEY WILL GO WHEREVER, CLOTS ARE A BILLION TIMES LARGER. THAT IS THE ONLY REASON TO WORRY ABOUT A PFO.
And even if someone didnt have a PFO, a large clot can punch through that flap anyhow. Hence, why you dont fix it normally, unless you want to because of knowing about it and it is ruining your life b/c of stress.
A PFO is common, it is much smaller than the birth defect called an atrial septal defect. Where there is a large hole b/c of embryology. Those often times they fix. A PFO can be incorrectly diagnosed. But if they say it is a PFO, I think they told you too much b/c you are worrying about it.
A PFO is simply a remnant of fetal circulation, it is common as brown hair. It is not going to kill you nor will it cause medication disturbances. There is a slightly higher risk of mini-stroke or stroke. That is because of a hole that allows clots that can form in the venous side of the circulation which is under low pressure and can simply join hands and form a clot. That normally goes to the lungs. If it is huge clot, it can kill someone called a pulmonary embolus. If you have a PFO it can cross and cause a stroke. PERIOD.
Molecules in the blood are so small, that medication does not have anything to do with a PFO.
If you had medication interactions, they are wholly separate than the PFO. Not to say you did not have a medication interaction. I have had them myself, in fact, I had a shot and I couldnt breathe one time and I thought I was having "The Big One". So I dont discount your feelings. But, alas, it is not from the PFO.
Its something else that caused it. Mine was the type of alcohol in the medication.
Hope that puts your mind at rest a bit.
But wouldn't this cause a person though to have problems with their lungs or breathing problems.
I had SOME kind of episode with that stupid humira shot. A person just doesn't go numb and have eye twitching (never to have had it before and I don't buy the teeth grinding story).
I had SOME kind of episode with that stupid humira shot. A person just doesn't go numb and have eye twitching (never to have had it before and I don't buy the teeth grinding story).
Hi, wow they really ran up your bill! lol
I do echocardiograms and this thing called PFO. (patent formaen ovale) is just a remnant of fetal circulation and is very common. Depending on the study and how many bubbles they count that go through the flap. 20-50% have it. Some studies less than.
So the criteria is to treat based on symptoms. Now, the flap is there based on fetal circulation because the lungs are not inflated. That hole is necessary because the major chamber of the heart develops based on circulation. No hole means baby is screwed. So the hole is normal, it shunts the blood from the placental mother supply across from the right heart to the left heart bypassing the lungs.
WHEN, a baby takes its first breath. Theoretically and with a little hormonal help, that hole, flap should close along with a coupla others! Well it doesnt always and when I worked in neonatal echocardiograms, EVERY baby had a hole somewhere that didnt close.
So its not really that important since if you look at a busy corner street and several people you see will have the same condition. That the flap didnt close at birth. AND, even if it did, it's still a flap and can be opened by an embolus later.
We could take you into the cath lab and close it. Not sure about the cost of that 50,000$ just an estimate could be off by 20,000.
But its expensive for no real reason except that you know you have it. If you believe in darwinian theory, if PFOs were all that problematic, then those with the genes for PFO's would be screened out.
I guess in a round about way, having done thousands of echocardiograms and seen untold number of PFOs. We just simply note it. The family member test. If it were my fiance or father, mother (lets leave sister out of this) and would I want them to treat it?
The answer is a definitive No. I would save leave it alone. The risk is small of a TIA (ministroke). The risk of a major stroke is not (to my knowledge) decreased by fixing it although I could be wrong on the studies (if anyone knows yet) and the treatment may be worse than the worry with complications.
I am an echocardiogram technician who has worked in all aspects of cardiovascular medicine from cath to vascular. But I am NOT a doctor. I play a little bit more wreckless with the truth and circumstances. Talk a little less robotic. What I Say should be followed by research on your part and NEVER quote a tech, ever! We are often wrong
I do echocardiograms and this thing called PFO. (patent formaen ovale) is just a remnant of fetal circulation and is very common. Depending on the study and how many bubbles they count that go through the flap. 20-50% have it. Some studies less than.
So the criteria is to treat based on symptoms. Now, the flap is there based on fetal circulation because the lungs are not inflated. That hole is necessary because the major chamber of the heart develops based on circulation. No hole means baby is screwed. So the hole is normal, it shunts the blood from the placental mother supply across from the right heart to the left heart bypassing the lungs.
WHEN, a baby takes its first breath. Theoretically and with a little hormonal help, that hole, flap should close along with a coupla others! Well it doesnt always and when I worked in neonatal echocardiograms, EVERY baby had a hole somewhere that didnt close.
So its not really that important since if you look at a busy corner street and several people you see will have the same condition. That the flap didnt close at birth. AND, even if it did, it's still a flap and can be opened by an embolus later.
We could take you into the cath lab and close it. Not sure about the cost of that 50,000$ just an estimate could be off by 20,000.
But its expensive for no real reason except that you know you have it. If you believe in darwinian theory, if PFOs were all that problematic, then those with the genes for PFO's would be screened out.
I guess in a round about way, having done thousands of echocardiograms and seen untold number of PFOs. We just simply note it. The family member test. If it were my fiance or father, mother (lets leave sister out of this) and would I want them to treat it?
The answer is a definitive No. I would save leave it alone. The risk is small of a TIA (ministroke). The risk of a major stroke is not (to my knowledge) decreased by fixing it although I could be wrong on the studies (if anyone knows yet) and the treatment may be worse than the worry with complications.
I am an echocardiogram technician who has worked in all aspects of cardiovascular medicine from cath to vascular. But I am NOT a doctor. I play a little bit more wreckless with the truth and circumstances. Talk a little less robotic. What I Say should be followed by research on your part and NEVER quote a tech, ever! We are often wrong
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