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Does Anxiety/Panic cause PVC's
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Does Anxiety/Panic cause PVC's

i'm a 34 year old male and have been suffering with anxiet/panic since the age of 23. I have never in that time felt PVCs . i remember feeling like 1 pvc every year never paid much attention to it , didnt know what it was. About 2 months ago my aunt died from cancer and i started to feel pvcs a few times a day. i went to a doctor to find out what it was and was explained that it was PVCs. Here is my question does anxiety cause pvcs or do pvcs cause anxiety. If anxiety causes pvcs then do they cause the actual pvcs or does anxiety act as a catalyst in bringing out the existing condition in the heart. Meaning - my understanding of pvcs is that pcvs are caused by an "extra" pathway in the heart, if that is so then how can anxiety cause a pvc a pvc is described as some physical problem. can someone explain this to me? Also if anxiety and panic causes pvcs then what if i have a huge panic attack what would happen lots of pvcs over and over and over ? and if so what would keep this from turning into V-tach? someone please help. One more question if most people have pvcs as doctors sometimes tell us then why aren't beta blockers prescribed to everyone?? i mean most of the population
Tags: pvc's, Heart
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Well, this site really woke me up today. Watch out for the people who aren't nice on here.

I'm no Doctor, I think you have valid questions. Who's to say Panic Attacks couldn't cause heart Problems? Stress causes heart problems. Right? I as one who has had Panic Attacks doubt that a Full-blown Panic attack would throw you into a dangerous heart reaction. Perhaps over time with anxiety and stress, possibly. I don't really know this of course. Also, my Cardiac symptoms in the past did cause Anxiety. Which causes Which? Who truly knows? Probably nobody. This doesn't mean you should live in fear. Keeping your anxiety down as much as possible I would imagine would serve your physical health well also.

I'm no expert though. Take care of yourself.
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Avatar_n_tn
It's still 7/26/07 where I live.
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Avatar_f_tn
Hi Michael,
You asked "One more question if most people have pvcs as doctors sometimes tell us then why aren't beta blockers prescribed to everyone?? "
Most poeple don't feel their PVCs or aren't bothered by them. Since PVCs they are not harmful beta blockers are only prescribed to people who are bothered by the symptoms".
I think some people find it hard to believe the doctors because PVCs can feel horrible. The doctors aren't lying that most of the generation have PVCs though. It is a scientific fact.
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97628_tn?1204465633
I feel an occasional skip and had some show up on my echo. I don't take beta blockers. My son had 1600 a day on his Holter he doesn't much notice them and doesn't take beta blockers even though he has a moderate sclerosis on a  valve. Even he doesn't need them.

People having something normal don't need medicine.

People with structurally sound hearts don't need beta blockers. They give beta blockers to healthy people when they complain of and/or are afraid of PVCs to try to reduce the force of the heartbeat
( sensation) and they are also known to work on anxiety (which is a known trigger for ectopic beats) by blocking adrenalin receptors as well.
Musicians and performers have been known to "pop" beta blockers before a performance to reduce performance anxiety.
Most people don't react strongly to a few "skipped" beats. Some people do and then they release more hormones, because they are anxious, and have more "skipped" beats.
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212161_tn?1391090750
atenolol i took 12.5 twice a day it was really strong for me so i had to go off of it but yes i was told it helps with the anxiety, its a good med just to much for me, hope she will try something before her anxiety gets out of control and she has to live with it rest of her life. shes to young to have so much stress. are they giving her anything for the panic attacks. they are bad and hard to live with as a adult so i know its hard for a child. God Bless ya and i pray all will settle down for her and she can go back to being a child, carefree
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Avatar_n_tn
I never knew that beta blockers could help with anxiety.  That is such good news.  My daughter suffers terribly with panic attacks mow that she has AVNRT and she doesn't just worry about her heart but her eyes and anything else that doesn't "feel right" in her body.  I'm glad to know about the beta blockers and anxiety as her doctor prescribed Atenalol but she's afraid to take it.  Maybe I'll let her know what you said but I'll definately keep it in the back of my mind.  Thank you so much.  
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Avatar_f_tn
Hi oatbucket,
I think betablockers only help with the physical symptoms of anxiety such as feeling edgy, breathless, lump in throat, feeling, palpitations etc (by blocking adrenalin). That is why they are often used for panic attacks. They don't haev any affect on worrying and anxious thought though. I think only antidepressents and tranquilizers do that. Although I suppose it's possible that by controlling the physical symptoms associated with anxiety they might make one feel better physically and then more less likely to worry abotu their health. Best wishes to you and you daughter.
Deedle
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213398_tn?1202674074
So you guys are all telling me that since most of the population has PVC's then it is logical to say that most of the population has the "extra wiring" as it is described that causes PVC's ?????
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Avatar_f_tn
Heart muscle is very electrically excitable. Most of the population have areas in their heart that are more easily excited than others and can 'fire off' from time to time instead of their heart's normal pacemaker.
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new board for PVC's ??? where? right here at this site? i looked under forums can't see anything for pvcs.  doctor to patient portion? or peer to peer? either way i see a forum for "heart" that we are in but no forum specifically for PVC's
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Avatar_f_tn
The forum is called heart rhythm. There is alot of discussion about PVC's there. Several members have tens of thousand of PVCs per day.
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Avatar_n_tn
This has been my experience.  I am definitely not an anxious person and even when the palpitations were at their worse, I didn't have any feelings of impending doom.  However, that being said, anxiety (and everyone gets anxious from time to time) will bring them on .  I do find this interesting how stress/anxiety evokes a physical response, whether it be migraines, an upset stomach, etc (true mind/body connection).

There is more at play here.  I have read articles that indicate the people with low heart rates (eg. athletes) can be prone to PAC's or PVC's that adversely affect their working out. For years I had them on occasion and never gave them much thought.  Then WHAM, they came on after a bout with the flu and never really abaded. They prevented me from doing the things that I love.

When they get so frequent that they affect your quality of life, then treatment is warranted.  Even if you have a structurally normal heart, "live with it" doesn't work for someone who is very active and can't bike, run, etc anymore because every time they do, they get dizzy or very fatigued.  The calcium channel blocker that I take has been a godsend.
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Avatar_f_tn
I agree that even if you accept them as benign they can affect your quality of life if they are very frequent and you are very symptomatic. I've had one hundred per hour documented and I feel every single on as a fliplopping/ dropping sensation in the chest and bulge in the throat. It's a very strong and unpleasant sensation that does startle me for a second, even though it now doesn't worry me. I found it impossible to ignore or to concentrate properly on anything with that going on 100 times per hour. Luckily now I have less than one hundred per day and I feel much much happier as a result. I take a low dose beta blocker.
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216258_tn?1189759427
  You can ask the Doctor at :

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/91

Medical Communitie FOR
Heart Rhythm

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/91

Good luck
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Vienna i tried asking a doctor so many times on this board it always says the forum is full. never had luck in posting there

deedle. and all i'm still confused though. i'm 34 and had panic disorder my whole life never felt pvcs except for like maybe one pvc a year. how how all of a sudden at the age of 34 i started to feel them more? is this normal with everyone here? i notice most people writing that they have had it since childhood

2. Do they get more frequent as time progresses? i mean i only get like 15 a day now but how bout like a couple of years from now is this a slow progression where i will get thousands later on?

3. if PVC get more frequent does this not increase our chances of developing V-tach?

4. How about the dreaded PVC on T wave phenomenon. i read somewhere that if a PVC falls on a T-wave then you can go into Ventricular Fibrillation and i'm sure we all know what that means. So what is that like a roulet wheel ? hope out of all the PVC one does not fall on a t-wave? how is that not dangerous?

5. And whats the deal with people writing that they can longer work out, what happens if we get them working out and don't stop working out will they get out of control and go into v-tach or something. i mean this is freaking me out i want to join a judo team and i'm scared to go all out and fight and then go into a dangerous situation

i'm sorry about the million questions its just that all this stuff is so confusing to me. On the one hand we are told that its not dangerous on the other people seem to have limitations from them i'm just really confesed about the true facts of this condition


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Hi Michael. PVCs are complicated and not fully understood so I have posted the questions you asked on the heart rhythm doctor's forum. He can explain better than any of us. Check out the post " Questions about PVC's". I hope his answers will alleviate your anxiety.
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There are posts addressed to you here.
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/237893
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225570_tn?1191290673
Quote "All drugs have side effects, And will eventually destroy whatever organ filters them"

Are you Crazy? People are on here asking us questions, having horrible anxiety about there problems and you tell them that whatever meds there on are gonna cause organ failure,,,Yea like thats all we need...First of all that is so untrue,,it depends on the meds your taking..get your facts strait before you go on here freaking people out. My grandmother has been on every medication on the market since she was in her early 20's she is now 76 and heathy as can be.. and her organs are fine...If you dont have anything uplifting and positive to say keep it to yourself...Thanks
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I dont think she is crazy at all.  The synthetic chemicals are not natural to the body.  I know that they are benificial for the time they must be used.  How many people on these boards have commented that the doctor is switching the meds?  How many people actually WANT to take meds?  I work as hard as I can to get to the point to drop another drug.  As far as the uplifting, sometimes no matter how much you support someone you will not be in complete accord.  Being able to give and take is a natural part of all relationships in life, even on the internet.  Expecting to agree with everything written is like sticking your head in the sand.
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216614_tn?1195668672
Gina,

I think you need to start reading the flyers that come with your meds.  And I think that you need to realize that "support" does not necessarily mean telling people what they want to hear.

Every med I take (and I take a bunch) can cause liver problems.  Every single one.  How do I know this?  I read the side effects.  I read the side effects BEFORE I start to take them.  

Why do I take them?  Because they are what is keeping me alive.

I think the key word in that sentence is eventually.  And the point she is making is that it is silly to take a drug for something that is benign and/or normal.

And...I think you should take note that your post is the first negative one of the day.  I will say again what I told you the other day.  Think before you start accusing.  And....get YOUR facts straight.

If you want just sweetness and light on a board, then I suggest you hie thee to the rhythm board.  If you want truth, ugly though it can be at times, then stay here and learn.  But stop accusing someone just because you have decided you don't like her or her comments.
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I believe in the theory that all unnatural things we put in our bodies will eventually wear them out.  From meds, OTC included, to hormones in meat, chemicals in vegetables, fruit, processed foods, even water.  If we are lucky enough to live to old age without a serious disease, one of our organs will start to go.......heart, liver, kidneys, even brain.  
Gina, are you in agreement with Michael??  Should we put Beta Blockers in the water supply maybe, to treat normal PVCs?  WE need a reality check here.   Calm down.  Welcome to the world of withdrawals.
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I do NOT agree with michael that all people with pvc's should be on something..in my expirience with pvc's that they are provocted by anxiety and stress and in a normal healthy heart they are more of a annoyence then a problem....Fl Brat i agree with you no one would want to be on meds who would? but when the benifits out weigh the risks they are good...And often i DO read the lables and side effects on EVERYTHING i take and not one of my meds states anything about organ failure....My point WAS is that not all meds cause these kinds of things and to miss inform someone who is already dealing with mager anxiety and stress could lead to very bad things!!! These people on Here are dealing with a HUGE amount of stress and to falsly state that all meds are gonna cause organ failure is wrong...I asked my cardiologist if beta blockers cause organ failure and he said only if you have an underline illness of an organ....And surfgirl i agree with your last post that was well put..absalutly anything as we get older can cause lots of things...And mabie our organs will fail but that was my whole point when i read your post i was like holy cow my organs are gonna be destroyed from all the meds i take if i was like alot of these people on here i would have freaked out but i know alot about these meds to know that your statement was untrue...All i was trying to say is dont stress people out if there already there....And surfgirl im not having any withdrawls at all im happy and med free noe and loving life my nsvt is a thing of the past and my anxiety is right behind them...i am now on here to help others that were in my place once...i think you all should tell michael to come to the heart rythum forum we can help him much better over there...and as you all say it we are just one big group hug over there and i love it!!!! thanks and good luck to you all.
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he was already told where to go to find support.
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213398_tn?1202674074
i really appreciate everyone's help here and all of your answers to my concerns and fears. i kind of lost track of my original question after all this sidetracking. lol.   I just want to clear something up though. i never said all people should be on beta blockers. i was being sarcastic when i said that    "if most of the population has PVC's like we are told by doctors, then why don't all those doctors put most people on beta blockers"      meaning if its true that most people have them why are we the only ones who are being offered beta blockers. i basically have a hard time believing that most of the population suffers from premature and weird beats.
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i really appreciate you posting my concerns in the new forum. that was very very kind of you. i read it and i will respond there as well. Again thank you Deedle
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Avatar_n_tn
Hi:) im from the philippines and i wanted some reassurance that im on the right track. My daughter just turned 13 yrs old and we found out she had PVCs 3 years ago. when we first found out, we panicked because we didnt know exactly what was wrong with her. it was just a regular checkup when my pediatrician wanted her to get an ECG. When we did, it showed some trigemeny and bigemenies. My doctor had her admitted in ICU. she was on dilantin for one week until and heartbeat was normalized.

Follow up appointments tapered her dilantin down and later on gave her inderal instead and the doctor said she has to take it as her maintenance med, maybe for life. after a series of test (stress test, 2d echo, holter, and more ECGs) she would still have her PVCs on and off.

i wasnt comfortable with the fact that she would be on meds for the rest of her life so i got a second opinion. the other doctor said she doesnt need to be in meds, but since the cardiologist i went to wasnt pediatric cardiology, i got a 3rd opinion and was forwarded for a 4th opinion. This time, its the best Pediatric Cardiologist in the philippines specializing on electrophysiology. She required a new set of  test which i didnt mind since her last one was a year ago and her conclusion was, as long as its assymptomatic and it doesnt bother her, all her test points to her PVC as being benign. she has no limitations, in other words she could live a normal child's life with out meds. She just said that she has to have her annual 2d echo and ECGs to see if her heart is changing in size. She says, the only time it could be bad is if her heart enlarges that why she has to monitor it.

its been a year since and it was timely because my daughters been complaining of chest pains. i took her last week to her doctor and she's scheduled for her holter, 2d echo and ecg this week. By the way, my doctors pvc's constant, its like her irregular heart beat is her normal heartbeat. im just a little worried now because of the chest pain shes experiencing. she also has constant cramps on her lower extremeties, i was just wondering if any of you who has pvcs get that also. I just want to know if it is connected to her PVCs. she will be getting her electrolytes workup also to see if her numbers are normal.

pls pray for my daughter and let me know if you have any more insights on PVCs. i hope her chest pains doesnt mean her PVCs getting the best of her. pls let me know also if my last and final doctor is on the right track.

thanks,

carol
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Avatar_f_tn
Hi Carolit, I have read before that frequent PVCs in childhood often decrease down to normal levels as the child gets older. Have you tried posting a question over on the 'heart rhythm ask-a-doctor' forum. There is a very good EP there who should be able to give you his opinion.
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The last class of drugs in the world that you want to take, unless you really, really need it, is the beta blockers. They are known to increase the blood glucose levels to diabetic proportions and in the long run, can cause heart failure. I read last night where they could cause necrosis of the myocardium. I couldn't believe my eyes. Surely it was a misprint.

I take a high dosage which keeps me alive and have taken them for over 6 years. Yep, my blood glucose is up. The side effects are nasty as all get out. Fatigue, impotence and more fatigue. I take 100 mg of atenolol. I tried to switch to Coreg, the best BB, yesterday but the nurse said that I didn't need that brand. She is/was omniscient.

I have heard of singers and actors taking them for stage fright, but not continuously. You would think they had enough cocaine in them to to handle stage fright, lol.
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225570_tn?1191290673
Hi i am very sorry about your daughter..It seems like she's in good hands..She has gotten alot of tests and if they still cant find anything wrong besides the pvc's then thats good..Deedle is right..She most likely grow out of them as she gets older they will become less and less..Also i had the same expierience as your daughter...not to get to personal but is she getting or did she get her period? This could all be hormonal. As it is for me my calfs and legs hurt then i get pvc's followed by my period...talk to her and see if she see's a conection..Hope this helps.
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225570_tn?1191290673
My Friend is on naderol( i think thats how its spelled ) and she gets blood tests every 3 months and shes been really good shes been on it since she was 16 for v-tach and now she's 25 and nothing wrong..
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...and why do you suppose your friend gets blood work done every 3 months?  
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216614_tn?1195668672
Ain't it a b****?  The very drugs that can keep us going can really harm us?  My glucose levels went up exponentially with the increase in my Coreg.  I have been able to cut my Coreg in half, so far, and hope that the decrease will be reflected in the glucose on my next A1C (in the next few weeks).  We shall see.  
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Yeh, it's better to not have to take any drugs but some are life saving and necessary. Before I started beta blockers (which I subsequently discontinued), I researched the side effects.  Some studies show the people who take beta blockers have a higher than average life expectancy.  
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97628_tn?1204465633
The people offered the beta blockers are the people COMPLAINING about the beats. A person with ectopics and a structurally sound/strong heart does not require medication.  In hopes of quieting the complaint, they give you something that both lessens the intensity of the (normal )beat and blocks anxiety receptors.

Sometimes it works.

I can assure you that anybody can hear my son's 1600 ecotpics a day very easily. Every doctor who has exaimned him for anything has mentioned them and anyone who puts an audible digital monitor on him can even hear the skips. He pays them no mind, so it is not a matter of your belief. It is a fact. People perceive things differently.
In any event, in the absence of heart disease they are of no real clincial consequence.
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Excuse me..blocks ADRENALIN receptors...Freudian typo
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225570_tn?1191290673
My friend gets blood taken every three months because the doctor wants to check the levels of the "NEW" beta blocker he put her on....She has v-tach very bad and she makes the doctor take blood every three months to check her tropin level also...it has nothing to do with her organs he just does a CBC when she's there...
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so....she has something wrong with her female hormones.
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225570_tn?1191290673
You Took the word right out of my mouth..lol
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225570_tn?1191290673
If you are refuring to my post about my friend getting her tropamin tested...That not a hormone its to check for any cardiac damage i cant spell very well so mabie im spelling it wrong..Because her v-tach happens so fresquent he likes to be safe and check all her cardiac enzymes and tropamin levels..
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216258_tn?1189759427
Refuring= referring   mabie=maybe   im=I’m   fresquent=frequent

You have the same ("style") like some on this board are you all ONE?

Have you ever heard about spelling check?
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Watch it V..........you are on thin ice here.....LOL......  :)
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216258_tn?1189759427
Well. at least I do spelling check if I am not sure....also English is my third language.....so I have an excuse ....plus....

With experience absolutely can get better. :)


or in  ginacarolina "style":
with "exirience" "absalutly"
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You say English is your third language, may I ask what your first language is?  English is my second language, my first one is German.
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Spelling check?  I thought it was spell check.
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Grammar check…. Right… I might need it sometimes, but that is only like an accent.
  BUT... it doesn’t mean my critique has less value. People with  huge spelling problem ...and not only ginacarolina around here has one... should feel very damn , they were borne here in North America and went to school here. As I’ve heard spelling is a very important subject in elementary school.

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My name tells  half of my story. One day I might tell you the other half.:)
Had / have wonderful, smart German friends !:)
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hooked on phonics werked for me
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I/we LOVE Vienna.  Very beautiful and historic city.  The Austrian people also seem very nice and friendly.

Thought I mention that in case your name is connected with Vienna in Austria.
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216258_tn?1189759427
It is connected somewhat.

Agree whit what you said. :)
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225570_tn?1191290673
Make fun of me all you want when i am typing fast im not worried about how my spelling is i figure people will get it....But unlike you i dont have to make fun of people to make myself feel better...how dare you insult me like that what are you 12 are we in 6th grade..Grow up....If you guys want to chat and make fun of people i suggest you start to use IM instead and let everyone here who cares about other people, help...i am sick of you ,your not even worth my words...Good thing your not from america cause if you lived here and had your attitude here you would be sqashed like a bug....
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And as far as All of you writting the same its referring to all of you who have joined together to make fun of people and put people down in stead of helping..
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Oh and i forgot to mention i reported you..and if you make fun of me again i will continue to report you until your off this sight...Dont play with me i have all the time in the world.
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216614_tn?1195668672
You are not the only one who knows how to report.  You have started several contentious conversations yourself.

I am not sure what the problem is.  Those who suffered from PVC/PAC/TACHY whatever....you all wanted us off the board because we wanted to discuss something OTHER than your issues.  Med Help was kind enough to set up a rhythm board, and you were all SOOOOOOOOOOOO pleased that you did not have to put up with "US" anymore.  Yet, you keep popping in here making derogatory remarks with no reason.  When we call you on it, you get p is sy....YOU attacked Surfgirl the other day on this thread for saying something that YOU did not want to hear.  Something that most people would NOT have panicked over.

Practice what you preach.  We were getting very peaceful over here until you started your attacks.

and as the disaster in Minneapolis today has proven, sometimes people DON'T have all the time in the world.
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225570_tn?1191290673
You are making no sence vienna's comment about my spelling was uncalled for...and i did NOT attack surfgirl the other day and how did i get p  is sy when she wasnt even talking to me?

"we are getting peaceful around here until you started your attacks"  ahahaha thats funny your getting peacfull cause everyone you guys like to make fun of left....And today i did not have NO REASON as you say i was attacked by vienna so i attacked back mabie you should direct your anger at her cause if she never made fun of my spelling then me and you would never be having this conversation.....Mabie if you got rid of her you would be peaceful but untill then..good luck..

And go ahead report me...for what? i was attacked for no reason we are not on here to make fun of peoples spelling so i had every right to report her...would if i really had a problem and she was making fun of me like that would that be right...i dont think so..
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216614_tn?1195668672
You attacked me because I upset oatbucket...remember...you didn't even know who or what it was all about, but you still jumped in.  That was your first mistake.  I assume you read my message to you and to awake and to you two and flutter.  And I certainly hope you read my apology.

You jumped on surfgirl the other day when she made the comment that all meds will eventually lead to organ failure making far more of that statement than was warranted.

I NEVER made fun of anybody...nor did I EVER attack anyone.  You and me....you started it hon.  I was staying out of it until you went after me.  Your mistake.

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what?
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Dont you love that this is going on in your post?  

Who lost track of topic?

V, I love your accent when you type.  Awake, huh?  Often, seldom.  Gina, behave.  Barbarella, why do I picture Jane Fonda whenever I see your name?

This post has gone so far off topic that I could sing show tunes here and it would be appropriate.  How about this idea....if you dislike the people posting, stay off the post. (I think it was put to me...dont read it!)  If what they say means little to you and they arent worth your words...dont type the words.  
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225570_tn?1191290673
I attacked you because you upset out bucket..when? i dont remember that post was it a while ago? And no i didnt read the message or apology..What were you apologizing for? And No i do not think you make fun of people i was not referring to you at all i have never had a problem with you..and as someone who used to suffer from EXTREME panic i was concerned that surfgirls comment about the organ failure was gonna be taken the wrong way like alot of stuff on here..And your quote "you and me you started it i was staying out until you went after me"..WHEN???? im not getting it when did i go after you tell me where this post is and if you are correct i apologize.
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My husband gave me that nickname "Barbarella" before we were even married, and has called me Barbarella for the last 45 yrs.  
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The defense spoke for itself. Enough of this. Goodnight and hope you have a good day 2morrow. Tomorrow being 8/2/07.
                                           : )
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What a waste of time and energy.  Sad, that adults take themselves down to this level.  Just my .02.

Barbarella, 45 years!!  Now, THAT is something worth mentioning : )  CONGRATS!!
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THANKS!!  Time flies so fast, it doesn't seem like 45 yrs.
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I just read your bio and see that you are married 30 yrs THAT
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Don't know what happened when I posted.  I read your bio and saw that you are married for 30 yrs, THAT too is something to be VERY proud of.  CONGRATS!!!!  BTW, we LOVE NC, we were stationed and lived at Ft. Bragg twice for 11 yrs combined.  Our son went to NC State.  We love the NC beaches, and the mountains.  
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NEW HEART RHYTHM FORUM!  Yep, we have both a Doctor-to-Patient Heart Rhythm Forum and a Patient-to-Patient Heart Rhythm Support Forum.  Just click on the FORUMS link in the dark blue bar at the top of this page.

Cindy Thompson
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I thought it was "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."  At least that's how we say it here in MS.   lol!
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Well, thanks to everyoe who helped me. I just don't understand people making fun of as many people as they can on A HEART FORUM.

Again, Thank you especially Oatbucket. You really helped me to Hold the Hope.

Bye, everyone. I can't watch people pick on others or myself and say nothing. I'm deleting this forum. Goodluck to you all.

BE Well and Hold The Hope for each other and yourselves.
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Thanks!  Yes, where does the time go?  I can remember thinking, "How could someone be out of high school for 25 years?"  NOW, I know that, and then some....hahahaha.  

After a lifetime in Ohio, we relocated to NC a couple of years ago (job).  It is really nice here and although I miss the snow, I don't miss shoveling 2 feet in zero degree weather...LOL.  Our kids graduated from OH colleges, but I still love NC State!!

Have a great day!!
connie
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