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Exercise and heart attacks
Hi
I'm intersted on your thoughts on this one? How safe is exercise? I know it depends on the person but if you are generally seen to be healthy.....statistically how likely is it that you could have a heart attack out of the blue when running, etc?
Horrible thing to think about but I was chatting to a nurse the other day and she said she would never advise anyone to go out and exercise now. She said she doesn't believe it lengthens anyone's life and actually she's seen too many fit men drop dead of heart attacks. A cardiologist told me that the fit heart is vulnerable, whereas a heart that has experienced repeated angina thickens and so is less likely to rupture during a heart attack.
People that my dad knew that look so unhealthy and unfit are still alive....and he has died suddenly, despite being a fit man, someone who could run for a bus if he had to. Sometimes i wonder if there is some protection to eating fatty foods and being unfit.
Now that i've released all that negativity, i will say that i would love to take up running. I walk regularly and do martial arts so it's not like i would be a beginner, but i would take it very slow.........but scared. My dad just died, suddenly on a regular day, whilst talking to someone on the telephone. I'm scared to go out and run and yet if statistically i'm more protected by doing it then i would like to take it up.
Also how does exercise lower blood pressure?
Anyone know the stats on things like this?
I'm intersted on your thoughts on this one? How safe is exercise? I know it depends on the person but if you are generally seen to be healthy.....statistically how likely is it that you could have a heart attack out of the blue when running, etc?
Horrible thing to think about but I was chatting to a nurse the other day and she said she would never advise anyone to go out and exercise now. She said she doesn't believe it lengthens anyone's life and actually she's seen too many fit men drop dead of heart attacks. A cardiologist told me that the fit heart is vulnerable, whereas a heart that has experienced repeated angina thickens and so is less likely to rupture during a heart attack.
People that my dad knew that look so unhealthy and unfit are still alive....and he has died suddenly, despite being a fit man, someone who could run for a bus if he had to. Sometimes i wonder if there is some protection to eating fatty foods and being unfit.
Now that i've released all that negativity, i will say that i would love to take up running. I walk regularly and do martial arts so it's not like i would be a beginner, but i would take it very slow.........but scared. My dad just died, suddenly on a regular day, whilst talking to someone on the telephone. I'm scared to go out and run and yet if statistically i'm more protected by doing it then i would like to take it up.
Also how does exercise lower blood pressure?
Anyone know the stats on things like this?
I totally agree with you on the stress thing. My dad was so stressed out and yes he was fighting to keep his home.....he was a very cheerful person but of course i saw the stress he was under behind closed doors. I hope, i just hope that it's how we deal with stress that is what matters......
I tired to get him to reframe his thinking on many occasions, helping him to see that the money side of things wasn't important, etc......
I've been under immense stress following his death, obviously. On top of that i recently had a breast cancer scare...but it was benign in the end (not after i was told there was a 90% chance of it being cancer). Tht first day i went home form the hospital and my heart was doing 120 at rest! I then said to myself, the mind really does affect the body and i have to change my thinking, i have to deal with my mind.....and i got myself into a better state.
So i hope it's how we deal with stress that is the issue. That said, even if we deal with it well i don't think we should take it on if we don't have to. My dad handled huge amounts of stress.......he handled it well.....but i guess there came a point where he couldn't deal with it anymore, he was unhappy...
When i think about it he was unhappy. He seemed worn out with life. He said to me there's no point in being afraid of hell, hell is here on earth. i told him i disagree, i refuse to think like that. I don't want to paint a negative picture though. Everyone remembers my dad for being the kindest and cheerful man....and that was his true nature.
Re exercise. I guess maybe the exercise thing isn't such a big deal......Intuitively i feel that if my father had taken up aikido with me a few years back he would still be here now. That goes against the theory that exercise would have ruptured soft plaque that one would imagine would have been there. Maybe stress ruptures the plaque! At aikido the stress justs falls off......i literally feel it falling off me. They start people very slow, just like yoga and people always do it at their own pace.....
and of course i've also heard that exercise can stabilise soft plaque as well, cause it to settle.
I tired to get him to reframe his thinking on many occasions, helping him to see that the money side of things wasn't important, etc......
I've been under immense stress following his death, obviously. On top of that i recently had a breast cancer scare...but it was benign in the end (not after i was told there was a 90% chance of it being cancer). Tht first day i went home form the hospital and my heart was doing 120 at rest! I then said to myself, the mind really does affect the body and i have to change my thinking, i have to deal with my mind.....and i got myself into a better state.
So i hope it's how we deal with stress that is the issue. That said, even if we deal with it well i don't think we should take it on if we don't have to. My dad handled huge amounts of stress.......he handled it well.....but i guess there came a point where he couldn't deal with it anymore, he was unhappy...
When i think about it he was unhappy. He seemed worn out with life. He said to me there's no point in being afraid of hell, hell is here on earth. i told him i disagree, i refuse to think like that. I don't want to paint a negative picture though. Everyone remembers my dad for being the kindest and cheerful man....and that was his true nature.
Re exercise. I guess maybe the exercise thing isn't such a big deal......Intuitively i feel that if my father had taken up aikido with me a few years back he would still be here now. That goes against the theory that exercise would have ruptured soft plaque that one would imagine would have been there. Maybe stress ruptures the plaque! At aikido the stress justs falls off......i literally feel it falling off me. They start people very slow, just like yoga and people always do it at their own pace.....
and of course i've also heard that exercise can stabilise soft plaque as well, cause it to settle.
I don't think exercise is the problem. How many kids do you see running around like lunatics every day. They don't suddenly drop dead or get arrythmia problems. The problem I think is realising ones limits. If you don't exercise much for 20-30 years and then start over doing it on treadmills, jogging, weight lifting etc, then I think you are asking for trouble.
I have found that the body adapts to your needs over a period of time and we expect it to happen over night. I was very fit and strong when I went into the building trade, or so I thought. I found it very difficult for at least two years while the different muscle groups were developing. This slow adaptation is natural for the body, but going to a gym and going through intense courses of fitness doesn't give the body time to adjust. If someone is active through childhood, teen years, young adulthood then they will obviously be more adapted to exercise.
I read a research paper some months ago which stated the most common problem with athletes is that they are born with valve defects which are not realised. They are not severe enough to give problems as the child grows up. However, if the child goes into athletics as a career, then the heart enlarges, and the valve has much more to cope with. I have been trying to find that paper to give a link but cannot find it. I must start keeping notes of where I read things.
If soft plaque is more prone to rupture during exercise, I think there would be a lot more deaths. Virtually everyone at cardiac rehabilitation has soft plaque in their arteries and their lives are improved. I think if it was a risk, the program would be shut down. Is soft plaque more prone to rupture during exercise? is there any conclusive evidence for this?
Our arteries go through much more when we are stressed, blood pressure becomes higher for longer periods of time. A young man on the estate where I live had a car sales business and was quite healthy. He was a happy go lucky type of man always laughing. In the last recession, his business collapsed and he lost everything, including his house. He had three children to support and he had a heart attack and died. I think anyone who doesn't believe stress causes problems lives in cloud cuckoo land.
I have found that the body adapts to your needs over a period of time and we expect it to happen over night. I was very fit and strong when I went into the building trade, or so I thought. I found it very difficult for at least two years while the different muscle groups were developing. This slow adaptation is natural for the body, but going to a gym and going through intense courses of fitness doesn't give the body time to adjust. If someone is active through childhood, teen years, young adulthood then they will obviously be more adapted to exercise.
I read a research paper some months ago which stated the most common problem with athletes is that they are born with valve defects which are not realised. They are not severe enough to give problems as the child grows up. However, if the child goes into athletics as a career, then the heart enlarges, and the valve has much more to cope with. I have been trying to find that paper to give a link but cannot find it. I must start keeping notes of where I read things.
If soft plaque is more prone to rupture during exercise, I think there would be a lot more deaths. Virtually everyone at cardiac rehabilitation has soft plaque in their arteries and their lives are improved. I think if it was a risk, the program would be shut down. Is soft plaque more prone to rupture during exercise? is there any conclusive evidence for this?
Our arteries go through much more when we are stressed, blood pressure becomes higher for longer periods of time. A young man on the estate where I live had a car sales business and was quite healthy. He was a happy go lucky type of man always laughing. In the last recession, his business collapsed and he lost everything, including his house. He had three children to support and he had a heart attack and died. I think anyone who doesn't believe stress causes problems lives in cloud cuckoo land.
Also, sudden death syndrome is usually due to something else entirely, usually an arythmia that is dangerous and causes the heart to stop. Exercise can lead to more arythmias and so some people suddenly die due to this....but they have always had an arythmia problem. (not all arythmias are dangerous by the way, please don't anyone reading this panic).
I will come back to this thread as i've only just scanned it as i have to go out right now.
The thought that exercise can lead to a heart attack is this: Most heart attacks are caused by rupture of soft plaque in the arteries. It is thought that sudden increases in blood pressure or heart rate can cause these plaques to rupture while they are still soft and haven't had time to harden. That's how exercise could do it, but of course I guess that's only if people are not used to the exercise.
Of course i've hear that long term exercise is good for stabilising plaques, causing them to harden up and less likely to rupture.....
The thought that exercise can lead to a heart attack is this: Most heart attacks are caused by rupture of soft plaque in the arteries. It is thought that sudden increases in blood pressure or heart rate can cause these plaques to rupture while they are still soft and haven't had time to harden. That's how exercise could do it, but of course I guess that's only if people are not used to the exercise.
Of course i've hear that long term exercise is good for stabilising plaques, causing them to harden up and less likely to rupture.....
i agree with the nurse unfortunately, many fit people have droppped dead whilst exercising but that could be down to an undiagnosed heart condition, my dad had a heart attack he ate healhty, exercised, but got a bit stressed, hes fine now, after you have a heart attack you have to go the hospital and do a running test on treadmill whilst wired up to ecg heart monitor, he passed this but a doctor told him people have dropped dead whilst doing this test and the doctors do not warn anyone of this, uddedn adult death runs in families too, i wonder if we should just eat what the hell we want not diet cuz the unhealthy people who dont care about themselves do seem to live longer and its so unfair, if you want to start exercising start off on a small jog the after afew days make it a bit longer distance thats the safe way to do it or if you do a ten mile sprint you'll be putting too much pressure on your heart, power walking is good too, as long as you can have a conversation with someone without gasping for air then you'll be fine BUT if you need to gasp for air and cant have a chat then you're overdoing it
What a great question.
I'm probably much older than you, but this question goes back maybe 40 years when Jim Fixx had some heart trouble, gained weight, and started running, and wrote a bood called I think "The Complete Book of Running". I live in an area (Oregon) where the book was embraced and our moderate weather summer and winter is conducive to running. Jim Fixx indeed died some years later I think when running, but... the true question would be about Jim Fixx, how much longer and how much better was his quality of life because of his running?
I'm curious about the Nurse. Was she in good or challenged physical condition? Sometimes people who can't do things denigrate activities based on their abilities. I have never, ever heard a Cardiologist make such a statement, either, and I'm a volunteer in an ICU cardiac area of a hospital and have regular visits with nurses and doctors. Because I've had a lot of heart problems involving heart attacks, etc I'm asked to talk with frightened/reluctant patients, often to agree to physical therapy (exercise) following heart attacks, stents, bypass, etc. I didn't exercise and had a lot of other poor cardiac habits. After a series of very serious heart issues, I started exercising, and have worked up to what I call power walking. I'm almost 70 years old and my joints can't take the pounding that jogging entails, but since walking, lifting weights and watching my diet my heart is much healthier.
I'd certainly give it a try. In my community, there are jogging clubs and they have people in the know advising how to start, how to proceed, and I'd suggest you start with that. I'd not suggest you ask the same cardiologist who gave you the advice that a healthy heart is less likely to rupture than an enlarged heart. I have one of those enlarged hearts... utter rubbish. Your father might have had other issues like high blood pressure, high cholesterol, there are many risk factors.
I'd make sure your cholesterol is OK, blood pressure OK, and follow a very good diet, and start jogging.
I'm probably much older than you, but this question goes back maybe 40 years when Jim Fixx had some heart trouble, gained weight, and started running, and wrote a bood called I think "The Complete Book of Running". I live in an area (Oregon) where the book was embraced and our moderate weather summer and winter is conducive to running. Jim Fixx indeed died some years later I think when running, but... the true question would be about Jim Fixx, how much longer and how much better was his quality of life because of his running?
I'm curious about the Nurse. Was she in good or challenged physical condition? Sometimes people who can't do things denigrate activities based on their abilities. I have never, ever heard a Cardiologist make such a statement, either, and I'm a volunteer in an ICU cardiac area of a hospital and have regular visits with nurses and doctors. Because I've had a lot of heart problems involving heart attacks, etc I'm asked to talk with frightened/reluctant patients, often to agree to physical therapy (exercise) following heart attacks, stents, bypass, etc. I didn't exercise and had a lot of other poor cardiac habits. After a series of very serious heart issues, I started exercising, and have worked up to what I call power walking. I'm almost 70 years old and my joints can't take the pounding that jogging entails, but since walking, lifting weights and watching my diet my heart is much healthier.
I'd certainly give it a try. In my community, there are jogging clubs and they have people in the know advising how to start, how to proceed, and I'd suggest you start with that. I'd not suggest you ask the same cardiologist who gave you the advice that a healthy heart is less likely to rupture than an enlarged heart. I have one of those enlarged hearts... utter rubbish. Your father might have had other issues like high blood pressure, high cholesterol, there are many risk factors.
I'd make sure your cholesterol is OK, blood pressure OK, and follow a very good diet, and start jogging.
I fail to see why someone running is more likely to have a heart attack than someone unfit? unless they of course had heart issues. Has anyone done the stats on it, I would assume there are more unfit people having heart attacks than people who are fit. I know athletes drop dead from heart attacks but from what I've read, this is mostly those who never had their hearts checked before taking up athletics. Those with valve problems have just made them worse by the high levels of exertion and stress on the heart.
Martial arts,hmm. It depends on the training regime and how much exercise is involved. I trained 5 days a week for 6 years and the first hour was very vigorous exercises. Then we did a solid hour training. The exercises were mostly anerobic which means the muscles cannot get enough oxygen and have to create energy in a different fashion, plus the heart is flat out all the time. I doubt, looking back, if that did me any good but then again maybe that's the reason I developed collaterals which saved my life. Who knows. I think they need to study the numbers more.
Martial arts,hmm. It depends on the training regime and how much exercise is involved. I trained 5 days a week for 6 years and the first hour was very vigorous exercises. Then we did a solid hour training. The exercises were mostly anerobic which means the muscles cannot get enough oxygen and have to create energy in a different fashion, plus the heart is flat out all the time. I doubt, looking back, if that did me any good but then again maybe that's the reason I developed collaterals which saved my life. Who knows. I think they need to study the numbers more.
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