just curious.. why do you think a patient would ever need a tutorial on how to interpret that kind of information?? Dont you think a licensed professional would be a better qualified to interpret that kind of data?
I voted for the licenses professional. I've been told that EKG's can be very tricky to decipher. Aside from spitting out "computer generated" diagnoses, there are soooo many variants to interpretating an EKG. I'll leave that to the cardio.
Yes, of course, a medical professional will always do a better job interpreting ekgs; (even better than a computer diagnostic program). On the other hand, I think it would be useful to have a rudimentary understanding of ekgs, the origin of the electrical signals in the heart, and how the ekg is used to diagnose problems. It helps to educate yourself on the heart's electrical workings so that you can better understand and assist the cardiologist in choosing a treatment option best for your arrhythmia.
I disagree. If motivated, a layperson can learn an amazing amount of material and develop considerable insights, especially with respect to their own body. Non-MD laypeople (albeitusually Ph.D's in another discipline) frequently win the Nobel Prize in Medicine even.
You have to actually work with health care professionals in a hospital setting to witness what goes on. It may help to also have familiarity with malpractice claims to see misinterpretations of readings of films; in many cases they are simply done by rookies and signed off by radiologist.
It may also help if you actually knew someone who was harmed by medical practice and you came to realize how little resources there are to help such victims.
As a start you may want to look at these two links:
"It helps to educate yourself on the heart's electrical workings so that you can better understand and assist the cardiologist in choosing a treatment option best for your arrhythmia"
... Or confuse yourself! LOL.. Its hard to even get a rudimentary understanding that is quite complex.. I agree, basic knowledge of the heart as an organ, of course, is never a bad thing to have, but this type of knowledge doesnt make a lay person qualified to diagnose or even attempt to diagnose ones self, or really go about chosing treatment options for oneself....Chosing your treatment should be based on your physician(s)knowledge and your personal preference..Best left to the professionals..
Momto3: You're right about "Computerized EKG diagnosis". I was in the ER at one time and my EKG stated that I had a previous MI. You can imagine the shock I was in. Not the ER doctor nor the Cardiologist who was called could tell me if this was an error by the EKG machine or what. I was discharged from the ER and referred to a Cardiologist for "further tests to see if I indeed had a previous MI". The next appointment with the Cardiologist was 6 weeks off, then came all the tests just to be told by the Cardiologist "I'm so tired of these computerized EKG's spitting out all these false heart attacks, your heart is fine, don't worry you are in excellent shape". I then told the Cardiologist "if so many computerized EKG's spit out FALSE heart attacks then why don't you medical professionals go to the bottom of it and tell the manufactorers who make these computerized EKG's to get to the bottom of what causes these machines to spit out these false heart attacks"? Or go back to the old EKG's but to put people in suspense for 6 weeks till the next available appointment thinking they had a heart attack, the computer could not tell "when" the so called FALSE heart attack happened is a joke.
I still got a copy of this piece of **** EKG, and I will refuse all "routine EKG's" I don't need that. If I had been an isolated case or one of very few cases that would be one thing, but to be told by a Cardiologist that "he is getting tired of all these FALSE heart attacks coming out of these computers I think its time that they do something about that i.e. find out the cause.
But then again, hooking up the patients to all kinds of test to prove that the computerized EKG is/.was wrong brings in money. Was I given a second EKG at the ER? Nooooo, I was told to make an appointment with a Cardiologist. Maybe the second EKG would not have spitted out a false MI. BTW, all my other EKG's outside of the ER thereafter were normal
mariop: How do you sue a computerized EKG for malpractice?? I guess you could sue them for not getting to the bottom of what causes the "so many false heart attacks the Cardiologist is getting tirerd of " as I was told.
we're just going to have to agree to disagree here :) .. i dont have to explain to you under what premises a person of a non medical profession would gain national recognition for a "medical discovery" worthy of a nobel prize, No, you do not need an MD to understand medicine, but the people of which you speak have degree's and phd's and extensive professional education in other areas of science,(such as genetics, biology, microbiology ect ect) they are not people sitting at home trying to learn medicine on the internet :) ... It is one thing to try and memorize medical terms and facts, its quite another to take that "knowledge" out of your mind and try and put it to use, which is why we have medical schools and licensing for medical professionals.
You've explained both sides very well Al. I can't disagree with anything you've said
I guess I suffer from hubris too. As a Ph.D. in physics and a scientific researcher with 40 years experience and over 100 peer-reviewed journal articles under my belt, I just assume that if I wanted to learn about ekg interpretation, I could do so provided I put in the necessary effort.
I also have a high regard for many of the people on this board and figure they are bright enough to learn enough to help in assessing their treatment options.
I think it would be kind of neat to be able to look at your EKG and sort of know what your looking at! We all get an explaination from the doctor, but so often you see people post here on Medhelp asking others thier opinion. Nobody is obviously qualified to interpret them other than a trained professional, but its still interesting that there is a site that can explain some basics! Good find! :)
I think it's great when people want to learn more about their condition. To me it is a must to learn as much as I can. It's when they decide that they know more than the professionals that I have a major problem. As brilliant as one might be, there is still no substitute for years of experience. Distrust of the medical system after one decides that they were wronged is no excuse; sorry, just my $.02!
There are some interesting points being raised here. On one side, we have the public that has an interest and a right to know information regarding their care, and healthcare in general. On the other, we have a perception that only "medically trained professionals" (this can be people that attend technical schools looking at your info to nurses, PAs, or physicians).
The danger lies with self diagnoses, anxiety, or spreading wrong information. People, as they naturally want to help solve problems with their health, gather and learn--however they must do so in a level that is appropriate to them.
One can educate themselves from well documented sites on the internet, books (readily available texts at large booksellers), or from their own personal experiences. A couple years of undergradute sciences gives a person a good base. Add graduate experience and understanding how to do research & analysis, you can have a very knowledgable person.
Reading EKGs (and unless you have a cardio or electro pouring over your stuff) your most likely getting machine readings. I don't see alot of cardios doing the math over EKGs...Your family practice guy isn't the expert.
A person with some knowledge can learn to spot skips on monitors, or even AFIB quite easily. I think one should defer ultimately to professionals--however mistakes are made.
There is nothing wrong with educating oneself regarding one's healthcare. I think it smacks of hubris when people feel only "medical people" should have access and education. There are alot of bright people out there that aren't physicians that can pull a case together, while their own docs can't.
I'm looking from both sides here, as a patient that seeks high quality care, and one that has had serious mistakes in judgement and treatment by these highly trained medical professionals.
A sign of a good doc too, if they know you are intested in health, will ask you "what have you learned from your last visit?" Patients that are educated can have much more successful and meaningful visits with their healthcare providers.
Given, I must concur that this only can be effective if the person has a good educational & science base, and understands the logic in the process.
The danger lies with self diagnoses, anxiety, or spreading wrong information. People, as they naturally want to help solve problems with their health, gather and learn--however they must do so in a level that is appropriate to them....
Completely agree with you on that point.. Ide just also like to add, While having a bad experience with a trained professional should be motivation to learn how to find a more experienced physician, i dont think its cause to pour over medical journals or websites in an attempt to begin to self diagnose, i also personally cannot think of a reason a patient would need a monitor and learn to interpret data unless they where trying to self diagnose..Curiosity, yes, but in my opinion that form of curiosity can be dangerous... Im sure many people want to take the drivers seat when it comes to their health, its hard to put something so important in the hands of a stranger, however this is nessecary... I dont think medical education or literature should only be accessable by medical professionals, i do however believe medical knowledge/procedure/or tests should only be implimented by medical professionals, if this werent the case, why bother to have physicians? Where does one draw the line? between trying to teach yourself how to read your own ekg's, to say trying to teach yourself open heart surgery? both can have some pretty serious consiquences.
"Given, I must concur that this only can be effective if the person has a good educational & science base, and understands the logic in the process."
I agree here too.. a formal traditional education preferrable.. Self education leaves too much room open for interpretation, and leaves you with no guiding hand to explain theories and give one correction.
Let's face it CollegeGirl, some of us have either experienced or witnessed the failure of the medical system. Doctors cut corners just like home builders. I worked for 35 years in a hospital system and I can tell you that I dealt with cases where the surgeon amputated the wrong leg, or operated on the wrong patient.
Harvard Medical School put out a study about 5 years ago where it was shown that some 150 thousand patients a year are harmed by the medical system. Therefore it is healthy to have a certain amount of rational distrust. Sure I want to trust doctors, but if I can I also want to verify.
i completely understand your concern mariop... Verification is definatly nessecary to some people, which is why we have the options of such things as specialists and second opinions.. If you'de like to have the knowledge nessecary to test such or verify such things yourself, there are certifcations and degrees that can be had that would make this a realistic possibility..
Mariop, va, And Al :) Ide like to ask you all a simple question... Do you for example consider yourselves qualified enough to interpret ekg strips for strangers and other patients, and by this interpretation only, suggest, or discourage any kind of treatment? Im assuming no since this would likely get one sued..
Ide hope that you would give yourselves the same treatment that you would a stranger and not put them or yourselves in danger by doing this... The point here is, no matter how strong your science or education background is, unless its specific, its just that, a background.. Unless you have formal training, you are not qualified to make such interpretations and suggestions to anyone, including yourselves, unless of course you are interpreting your own data with a physician present giving strong guidance and explanation. :) It is however your health, and your risks :)
thats a great policy :) its always important to be comfortable, ask questions, and even learn specifics about your own conditions with the guidance of a qualified person, but this is another area that gets fuzzy, as we've all seen the people affected by say, something benign like palps or svt, who read something untrue on the internet, or misinterpret a study, and it sends them into a downward spiral that many take months or years to recover from, because they dont have a professional there to explain to them why what their looking at doesnt apply to them, and while they may understand the "basics" they lack the knowledge to understand fully whats going on within their bodies, and its quite scary, and it leads to alot of heartache and misinformation (like this "6 palps in a row" rumor that will not die)
With EKG's its particularly sketchy because they are programmed at certain levels to make a diagnoses based solely on heart rate, and can often spit out false positives, such as the case when a heart rate is over 175, most ekg's automatically diagnose svt... Or for "diagnosis" Of wide complex SVT, which is extremely hard to decifer from VT... it is common for a diagnosis wcsvt to actually be a vt..or ashman beats will commonly be misdiagnosed as well.. there are a million things, that take years of study to learn, and frankly, you cannot teach yourself... I personally find it impossible to teach yourself something that you dont know, if you have no mathmatical history, would you try and teach yourself calculus?
.... Theres just a thin line between the natural urge to learn about yourself, and self diagnosing/self testing, which can be a big big gamble and lead to alot of trouble
CollegeGirl makes alot of good sense, and there are very some other good posts too...VA Tony has some valid points.
I think patients should educate themselves to a safe level, and if their mindset & education permits, all the better.
CollegeGirl, this gets quite difficult for patients that have symptoms and their questions aren't being answered to their satisfaction. Your question to me earlier was loaded 8 ^).....I say this, I'll research and learn as much as I can. I have discussed misdiagnoses with my physicians with information that I've gained to overall make an accurate diagnoses and treatment plan.
People with complex dieseases & cases need support. When you're getting billed at level 4 of 5 or 5 of 5, these are complex cases. Patients that take 10-20 medications have alot of issues to deal with, and many physicians don't deeply understand or explain the effects--they leave that to you as they figure you're going to get on the internet anyway to learn about.
Misdiagnoses itself is very destructive. Uncovering physician and technical errors takes time & resources. A complex case can have numerous opinions, all of which point to every direction of the compass.
As has been well discussed, the danger of self diagnosis and preoccupation is not a good situation. Being well informed and knowledgable can help treat the case. However, the medical community does not understand or is unwilling to tollerate those who do educate themselves and learn.
Those who've gone down the cardiac road know when it's time to get the docs involved, or just chill----getting to that point takes more than "it's harmless," especially when the events keep occuring despite previous reassurance or treatment. That begs the diagnosis & treatment of the problem, and the cycle continutes.
The some very new doctors, and some very old doctors are inflexible--ones that have been in the field long enough to understand that things are variable, and ones that are open to patient input have good success. Experience is good, but when a provider is quick to assess and dismiss, people die.
Ok, this topic's been well discussed. Would I pick up a book on calculus if I didn't know it, or even a book on coastal erosion, sure....why not? Let's not get our analogies out too far.....as patients, we have a vested interest in our health.
Perhaps I don't understand the term "links".
In my world, a world devoted to applying computational solutions to problems in drug design, a "link" is an active web address, such that clicking on it sends one to another web page (or address). The so-called "links" that I see on this board are not active, they are simply address locations which may contain information of interest to the reader...same as referring the reader to a literature, book or publication citation. Are such citations also prohibited? If not, what's the issue? It's inconceivable that a reader would be offended by a literature citation...or is it? I concur with mariop. This board seems destined for one purpose only, that is, opinions designed to "support" the nervous readership, with great care being taken to avoid buttressing such opinions with established fact (or at least, source information).
>sigh< Va_tony.. mla style citation is used by hundreds of thousands of individuals, researchers, schools, students, literary journals, newspapers, in many different countries You name it.. it is currently the how to on how to cite ANY work.. sorry if that fact has been lost on you throughout your "career" as a researcher... Any time you use someone elses work, it needs to be cited CORRECTLY..Whether or not you try and pass it off as your own is irrelevent concerning the legalities of the situation... Are you sure you;ve done this before? There are other ways to cite besides mla, but if you can find me one that advises to cite the way you "cite", ill eat my words... i believe the general point being stressed is, Stand on your own two feet.
As you can see, this thread has made a positive turn into helping pika understand her ekg.. do you have anything positive to add? or are you done posting?
Actually, the offending posts still seem to be on the board. I believe the warning was referring to my posts in the threads "Low Heart Rate - post AF procedure " and "congenitial heart defect and fast heart rate common? ". Can't be that illegal if they are still there.
The only posts I wrote that were actually removed seemed to be associated with a thread mariop started (it was about a site with a text on the cardiovascular system -- mariop posted the url) --- the entire thread seems to be gone including posts written by you. I didn't post any quotes or URLs in that thread.
There are some links at fwilson's site with powerpoint presentation that may help you understand your own ECG. Just do a google search for pvcablation and you should be able to find it. Sorry I cannot post urls, PikaPika88, but the Internet Police is on the lookout.
It sounds like one doctor tried to explain it to you? Im sorry it didnt make much sense, sometimes they dont! When you are on an ekg with a pacemaker, it looks different than a normal one... the qrs compex is broad, and can make it look not spiked anymore.. this is normal... Is this what you're referring to?
Have you gone to get a second opinion from another EP or cardiologist? I think this might help more than trying to find out on your own, at least this way a doctor can look at your entire history and try and tell you whats going on.. Maybe you could send your file to cleveland?
Pika! :) I hope you dont let the quibble here bury the responses to you.. If you do a search as mariop suggested, on pacemaker qrs complex, it might make more sense to you... How where you feeling when you noticed this.. Where you symptomatic in anyway? Or just concerned with the ekg?
"Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood." Marie Curie
Unless we know enough about an issue, we shan't be able to ask the doctor a probing question, not shall we be able to understand the answer. We shall indeed step back into the world of the witch doctor and subjects taboo.
ECGs are really very simple. To understand the basics is not difficult. To understand the nuances, that's a different story...even computer algorithms are too simple-minded to do a good job of that. I think the learned patient gets that.
There are folks in this forum that constantly tell us to avoid trying to learn the hows and whys of a thing, fearing such knowledge be misunderstood, misinterpreted, and misused. Apparently they fear that we are likely to think we know enough about medicine to practice on ourselves and others. Very liberal thinking, that. Almost like a parent admonishing a child.
Alas, the conundrum... stay simple-minded and rely on pure trust, or become smart and ask the right questions.
LOL.. Ok guys.. If thats how you feel perhaps you would be better served by fwilsons site.. After all, you all seem so well adjusted and mentally healthy about your heart "issues" Mariop maybe that board will have some advice for you as to how to safely shock yourself with an electrical fence as you where asking about before ;) Im sure you could have a rousing debate about the pro's and con's of such self treatment....
This has become asenine.. Arthur, you are far from new here, you fully understand medhelps regulation, and what is meant by the term "links"...it clearly prohibits the use of posting a website address to an internet site on this forum, as well as quoting studies without proper citation, and medhelp has said, that this type of "citation" of posting web urls is prohibited, and they have every right to do that, and i for one have every right not to see this nonsense every other week because a small group of people tends to not be able to say a word without posting a study....this is something one should be taught about in junior highschool... In the abscense of proper MLA citations, what you're doing amounts to plagerism... If you are that adament about trying to back up your medical "theories" in this forum, all you need to do is ask medhelp for prior consent, it takes about 5 minutes, far less time than it takes to write these posts about how "crappy" you two feel this board is...
Come on people, its a LINK,.. time to move on.. If you have nothing important to say without having to back yourself up with a piece of literature, then ide gather to assume you have nothing to say at all
Live links they are not. So, according to you, they are allowed.
Just as any citation is allowed. Copyright laws forbid the copying of others' works, not citing them or reading them...yikes.
BTW...scientific papers are not actuallty read by many MDs, as they are not scientists and they do not practice science. They are highly skilled technicians who have spent an enormous amount of time and effort to understand the various machinations of the human body and its systems. Unless an MD is conducting research, he/she is not a scientist. In my experience, EPs are generally more like scientists, since they are constantly experimenting.
You are better than the statements you are making. You do know that you tend to chide others for trying to learn. I don't think that constitutes support based on personal experience...or does it?
ps Regardless of the barbs this memo attracts, for the sake of peace, I shall make this my last statement on the matter.
I also received a warning today. I guess somebody reported me (gee, I wonder who?) . It didn't mention anything about links or URLs though. It simply said:
This is a reminder that it is illegal to post copyrighted information on our website. A one or two sentence excerpt is all that is allowed. Your cooperation will be appreciated.
Wishing you all the best,
I will, of course respect Medhelp's wishes. However, I did write back to them asking about URL clarification-- as Arthur said, strickly speaking a link (short for hyperlink) is not an URL. BTW this distinction is currently being tested in the courts.
I'm not a medical doctor and so I thought it would be appropiate to back up any opinions I give with a quote from a respected medical source. This is not plagiarism because by adding the URL and identifying the source, I have given proper attribution. I have been the Editor of a scientific journal and know the distinction between plagiarism and proper citation. I also fail to see why posting a URL is copyright infringement since such a web address simply provides a way to contact the copyright owner directly, who then chooses to make the copyrighted material freely available or not. All of my URLs were to trusted medical sources like medical journals, medical teaching hospitals, medline, American Heart Association, etc.
I am not on a crusade here. I'm simply giving my views. If medhelp doesn't want me to post URLs, I won't, But I can't help but wonder if the true reason isn't copyright concern (which other heart boards seem not to share to this degree) or if it's an attempt to limit the flow of info not provided by the site doctor or by personal physicians (or perhaps as CollegeGirl believes, to limit the amount of confusion we have).
arthur.. Please dont continue to comment on my posts when you lack to forsite to understand them... My comment about plagerism is in reguards to the folks who sidestep the link rule and just directly quote studies.Do you understand what plagerism is? .
I find it hard to believe you also are personally knowledgable about the habits of "many" MD's... your "experience" in this matter would be none.
I dont believe i chide others for learning at all..What do you consider learning?? Looking up your disorder, reading on it, great, perfect, theres penty of info to be had..
Trying to teach yourself medicine is something completely else, and its dangerous...If you feel the need obsess so strongly about the issue and spend your days searching the internet in the attempt to "educate" yourself, you have every right to do that.. I have every right not to be subjected to it... If you have an earnest opinion, i would hope you have the intelligence and the maturity not to post studies and quote qualified people like a parrot because you are infact, unqualified to factually support your own opinion...
i believe i chide a select few people who take "learning" as an excuse to force opinions based on fallacy onto others... i find it extremely disturbing that a "well" individual would have nothing better to do than sit on a support board and tell suffering people his theories about their mortality... I find it extremely disturbing a "well indvidual" considers buying thousands of dollars worth of medical equiptment to experiment on ones self, or shock themselves with an electric fence..
Posting links to other websites or individuals, without prior written permission from Med Help
there you go :) A url is infact, a website address, piddle about the terminology all you want, im sure for two people who hold themselves in such high reguard, can understand such a simple statement
This is clear as a day people... If you'de like to post links, simply get prior permission, ive done it.. its not difficult :)
Tony, I find it flattering you'de like to blame your accusation of plagerism on me :) i dont see where you posted a link, but if i had, i would have said something to you directly as i have to mariop :).... Maybe the thought has escaped you that something you apperantly did was copyright infringment .... imagine that!
This is a reminder that it is illegal to post copyrighted information on our website. A one or two sentence excerpt is all that is allowed. Your cooperation will be appreciated.
Wishing you all the best"
Im sorry, but i do believe the words "illegal" and "copyrighted" are clearly used there... As someone who obviously thinks of himself as intelligent, i doubt that the implication was lost on you...I was not the one accusing you of anything, i believe the only thing ive ever brought up to anyone on the forum was the treads being started solely as a chance to spam a link, as i personally find it annoying, and it just so happens medhelp supports my point of view on that... the fact that you were warned on an appearant suspect of copyright infringment is a completely different ball game, and as someone who claims to have an extensive amount knowledge in the field, ide assume you would know how to appropriate use and cite information, and be able to use that 1st grade education and read that this website forbids that...
Is it so difficult to stand on your own two feet and not have to use other peoples works to try and validate yourself?
Maybe it would also serve you well to keep in mind, that no amount of complaining on anyones part is going to get you repremanded or your posts removed on unless you have in fact, done something that is discouraged... I find it amusing that someone who takes themselves so seriously has such a hard time accepting that they are at fault of something and defends this action blindly... I was not the only forum member to warn you what could happen, and i strongly suspect thats why you personally have been brough to light in this... Its innapropriate to suggest you are above the terms of service of this site based on your self proclaimed knowledge... We're all equal here :) lets all act our ages and play by the rules shall we?? ;) it'll serve you much better here as well as in life... take it as a lesson learned.
One day when I discovered my ECG spikes (QRS) all strinked to a mung bean size. I asked few GPs, they all said that they can't read, they unable to interprete, they're not specialist, they don't know what is that meant. (They're worse than a machine!) Who's can interprete that? I want to know where all my normal spikes gone? They told me, "Your heart specialist!" I send a copy and wrote to him. His answer is "Pacemaker produces spikes!" If you're not pacing then "no spike"! Anyone make sense?
Last year, I showed him (a heart specialist) a holter monitor report. He said, "it didn't make sense!" He chucked that piece of paper into the file and closed.
Well, that case isn't help. I need to find out by myself. Why it didn't make sense to him? What is "no spike" meant? I tried to compare all the ECGs in website but non like mine. I'm still in question mark?
obviously they can be :) for someone who claims to have so much experience in the research field.. its a bit odd you lack the knowledge of how to write a proper mla citation, and that certain truths are lost on you, like the fact that reproducing even a public work without a proper mla cite (and a web url is not acceptable for future referral ;) ) is considered plagiarism ....Interesting things to make note of..... Im sure you would find your posts much more appreciated if there where infact written in light of personal experience rather than web trolling and mimicing doctors.. Good luck with that :)
College Girl --- come back to reality. This is not a MLA publication (or anything resembling a research publication). This is a public support board -- a chat room if you like. MLA rules don't apply. I was trying to be helpful and provided links and quotes to those asking for info. Not every one has the time or computer saavy to do the google searches- there was no intent on my part to claim what was written was my work -- hence no plagiarism (if indeed such a concept applies to a Board Forum). Quit playing the Board parlimentarian.
I've already said I would follow medhelps wishes in this matter.
"Tony, I find it flattering you'de like to blame your accusation of plagerism on me :) "
I certainly was not accused by medhelp of plagiarism (gosh, I even know how to spell the word) and I don't believe I violated anyones copyright, since everything I posted was from a public-domain source for which I gave attribution. I believe Medhelp's warning derives from a legal concept called "an abundance of caution" (probably based on their attorney's advice).
I have so many things going on...my heart, my nerves, and now this lump! Everyone, even in my family keep telling me I need to see the doctor, but I keep telling the "ignorance is bliss". I firmly beleive that if I don't knwo about it it cannot hurt me.
As far as I am concerned, the less I know about what is going on in my body the better!!
aww.. yeah i know, sometimes i think we all feel that way.. You're right that if you dont know what you're dealing with, its easier to handle mentally, but it could be taking a physical tole on your body... Alot of breast lumps are benign, there are four kinds of breast lumps, only one of them being the C word, so thats encouraging right?...Sometimes the lumps go away after the next visit from aunt flow ;) ... If nothing else, a trip to the doctor to confirm what you have is indeed just a benign thing, maybe that would help take some of that burden off your shoulders!
That morning when I had the "no spike" ECG, I feel fine. My heart was very quiet and not naughty at all!
The rest of the ECG that I had, all had spikes and some were very tall, some were up side down. I think the pacemaker pacing is making me very unwell! Few times, I begged him to turn it down but he thinks all are in the lower limits. I want to try because someone on the other site said once his Dr turn it down. He's feeling much more better and no more fib and don't have to take medicine anymore. I wish my dr can fix up mine one like him! By helping, I did the ECG to compare and holter monitor to tell him my 24 hours life. He told me my pacemaker has a built in holter monitor, do not need that. But..... he didn't know how unwell I'm! ?He thought I'm a bionic woman!
va_tony is a very broad knowledge man. He helps many people that I know of. We use to ask him all sort of questions and he'll prompt to answer and show us the information. He normally won't answer my post.
Sorry, the detritus emanating from one special person on this board has been clearly over the top regarding lack of support for fellow posters which is evidenced by a profound fondness for rude and sarcastic remarks and a misguided, self-proclaimed tirade against information and those who reference it. The board is not meant for debate, but rather, allowing people to freely express their views, with the objective of sharing experiences and information. Experience includes information, and to even for a moment consider eliminating the latter, leaves us with nothing but opinions.
arthur.. as you can see by the lack of support you recieve from medhelp and other board members, this board is not meant for a few high and mighties who are under the misinterpretation that web trolling makes them "e-doctors", or above the fact that frankly this board is not a sounding board for your theories and debate on any subject medical. This is in fact, not a place for debate, or research, or anything of the sort, im supported by my opinion and lack of tolerance for such foolishness by the website itself and frankly if you find it unnacceptable im sure you can find another place more suited to your view... i do believe more than one fellow poster has asked that this type of behavior be stopped, i strongly suggest you ask yourself who here is infact eminating the "lack of support" here for other posters...
And once again, you have done nothing but stood on a soap box and mumbled meaningless trite to yourself so you can feel vindicated when someone here was asking for help, which has fallen on the deaf ears of people who might normally have something functional to add, but you're too busy, seemingly trying to make yourselves important... Good luck with that.
Some people cannot understand that most of us here just want support. We do not care what the facts say or what the reality of our situation is. We want to feel good and hear about how everything is going to be alright, you know! This is just beyond some people. A good example I have...I have a lump on one breast. It seems like every website I go to is telling me its this or its that. I just want SUPPORT. I want to feel good about it, not be told I have to go to the doctor to get it checked out or I need this or that test. Is it too much to ask that some people accept that ignorance is bliss??!!?? I firmly believe that if I don't know about something, it can't hurt me. One of the big problems I think is that this "information" is too easy to find on the internet. There should be laws banning this kind of "information" from being public knowledge for heaven sakes!
It sounds like you're goin through a rough patch huh? I agree with you, that its no ones place on this board, or any board, to tell you "the reality of your situation" as its impossible for someone thats never met you, nor examined you to possibly understand that..
I think most of the people here have best interests at heart :) a few take it too far, and use it as an excuse to spout of rediculous "theories" or post others works to try and vindicate to themsevles that they are knowledgable, when in reality all they are good at is using the copy and paste feature on their computers... the best kind of support comes from personal experience and knowledge.. If you need a medical opinion, see a medical doctor, its never good to rely on people who think web trolling qualifies them to give medical advice or diagnose certain medical conditions..
I hope you begin to feel better soon! And of course, i support you :) i know how scary what you're going through must be.. Im sure most who have suggested you see your doctor only have concern for you :)
i hope you find the support you are looking for and through that find a little peace of mind for yourself :) as always, its never a bad idea to speak with your doctor about any concerns you have, hes another person who has your best interests at heart.
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