Is dark chocolate good for the heart or not?

Hi everyone

I've read so many good things about dark chocolate, that if eaten regularly reduces the chances of a heart attack and that it's good for the arteries.....

but how can i believe that when it's still full of fat?

Anyone?  I love dark chocolate, but i don't want to eat any now since my dad died.  Even a little bit seems loaded with fat....

[mammo]

A lot of foods that are VERY GOOD for you are high in fat, and this is why we eat them in moderation.  Dark chocolate is very good for you, a great antioxidant in moderation.  Nuts are excellent too, but in moderation.  There are good fats and bad fats, but even with the good ones, it's about moderation.

[RadioAstronomyObserver]

Mammo, I was beginning to like Rosemary till you came along,  :-(

[RadioAstronomyObserver]

in "moderation"? bummer.

[Rosemary349]

Lol!

On a serious note, if the fat in dark chocolate is bad, then i won't eat it at all.  I won't do it in moderation i just won't eat it at all.

[mammo]

Don't shoot the messenger! Life is too short to deprive yourself of dark chocolate!  I have a magnet on my fridge that reads "I Ate My Willpower"...tell ya anything?

[ed34]

Strangely enough, chocolate also has a poison in it. It affects dogs in low dosages but humans can tolerate about 20 pounds of choc before becoming toxic. So surely if it has anti oxidants, then these are balanced by the toxins?

[ed34]

I wish someone would define the word 'moderation' because it's a very loose word and can be interpreted in millions of ways. One may interpret this to mean a couple of squares a day while others may interpret it to mean a couple of bars a day.

[Flycaster305]

I'm not a nutritionist or a doctor, but I suspect dark chocolate has nutrition values like dark red wine, but in moderation. I also think it has properties that increase the romantic propensity in women, so as a guy, it certainly has always been high on my gift list!

[ireneo]

Sure works for me. LOL

[PikaPika88]

Is dark chocolate contains caffeine?  Caffeine can cause palpitation.  It is good for brady but no good to tachy.   It is listed on my diabetes list as the food CAN EAT by diabetic.  YES!

[mammo]

If you do any research on dark chocolate, or just listen to the news you would know that dark chocolate is so good for you that doctors feel it should be in a food group all it's own!
Chocolate can be poisonous to dogs, but have never known one to become sick or die from eating it. But we're not talking dogs here.  If you start talking about every little thing that can be harmful, you'll not only drive us crazy...but yourself!
Got high blood pressure? Try a truffle. Worried about heart disease? Buy a bon-bon.
It's the best medical news in ages. Studies in two prestigious scientific journals say dark chocolate -- but not white chocolate or milk chocolate -- is good for you.
Dark Chocolate Lowers Blood Pressure
Dark chocolate -- not white chocolate -- lowers high blood pressure, say Dirk Taubert, MD, PhD, and colleagues at the University of Cologne, Germany. Their report appears in the Aug. 27 issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association.

But that's no license to go on a chocolate binge. Eating more dark chocolate can help lower blood pressure -- if you've reached a certain age and have mild high blood pressure, say the researchers. But you have to balance the extra calories by eating less of other things.
Antioxidants in Dark Chocolate
Dark chocolate -- but not milk chocolate or dark chocolate eaten with milk -- is a potent antioxidant, report Mauro Serafini, PhD, of Italy's National Institute for Food and Nutrition Research in Rome, and colleagues. Their report appears in the Aug. 28 issue of Nature. Antioxidants gobble up free radicals, destructive molecules that are implicated in heart disease and other ailments.

"Our findings indicate that milk may interfere with the absorption of antioxidants from chocolate ... and may therefore negate the potential health benefits that can be derived from eating moderate amounts of dark chocolate."

Translation: Say "Dark, please," when ordering at the chocolate counter. Don't even think of washing it down with milk. And if health is your excuse for eating chocolate, remember the word "moderate" as you nibble.

The Studies
Taubert's team signed up six men and seven women aged 55-64. All had just been diagnosed with mild high blood pressure -- on average, systolic blood pressure (the top number) of 153 and diastolic blood pressure (the bottom number) of 84.

Every day for two weeks, they ate a 100-gram candy bar and were asked to balance its 480 calories by not eating other foods similar in nutrients and calories. Half the patients got dark chocolate and half got white chocolate.

Those who ate dark chocolate had a significant drop in blood pressure (by an average of 5 points for systolic and an average of 2 points for diastolic blood pressure). Those who ate white chocolate did not.

In the second study, Serafini's team signed up seven healthy women and five healthy men aged 25-35. On different days they each ate 100 grams of dark chocolate by itself, 100 grams of dark chocolate with a small glass of whole milk, or 200 grams of milk chocolate.
An hour later, those who ate dark chocolate alone had the most total antioxidants in their blood. And they had higher levels of epicatechin, a particularly healthy compound found in chocolate. The milk chocolate eaters had the lowest epicatechin levels of all.

Dark Chocolate Is Healthy Chocolate
Dark Chocolate Has Health Benefits Not Seen in Other Varieties(continued)
Chocolate for Blood Pressure: Darker Is Better
What is it about dark chocolate? The answer is plant phenols -- cocoa phenols, to be exact. These compounds are known to lower blood pressure.

Chocolates made in Europe are generally richer in cocoa phenols than those made in the U.S. So if you're going to try this at home, remember: Darker is better.

Just remember to balance the calories. A 100-gram serving of Hershey's Special Dark Chocolate Bar has 531 calories, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. If you ate that much raw apple you'd only take in 52 calories. But then, you'd miss out on the delicious blood pressure benefit.

[ed34]

You apparently have to make sure the cocoa content is 60% or above or else the goodness gets replaced by sugar and other nasties. I think I will remain sceptical about these allogations for a while because its the same old story. When I read articles which say "research has shown", you dig for a while and discover who did the research. Well, you guessed it, Nestle, cadburys and other chocolate producers. One such claim states "Researchers in the US have done experiments that showed that if you eat chocolate three times a month, you could add up to a year to your life expectancy!".
How the heck could you ever prove that? Do you take two cloned humans, feed one on chocolate and the other not, then see how long they live? They would of course have to eat and drink the same things apart from chocolate and breath the same air all their lives.
They would have to actually live identical lives. Scientifically speaking these kind of claims are ridiculous and laughed at, but they sound great to the public. It also adds as a great bonus to the chocolate producers actually doing the research because half the population will dash out and start buying chocolate.
There are high levels of antioxidants in many natural foods and I think I will stick to those.

[Rosemary349]

I think that's why i posed the question because i'm very skeptical.

it may have antioxidants, it may lower blood pressure........but it's the fat that's in it that worries me!

I know it's not a big issue but it is if you are someone that used to eat chocolate every day.  I don't now, but i did before because i didn't realise how much fat was in it.  i thought it was just sugar i was poisoning myself with - lol!

Unless someone can tell me that the fat in dark chocolate is of the good variety then i won't eat it and will remain skeptical of all research that suggests it's good.  None of the research studies seem to comment on or pay attention to the fact that there is so much fat in chocolate.  They mention calories but i'm guessing that heart health is more about how much fat is consumed than about how many calories are consumed.

[ed34]

I think thats why you have to go for the more expensive varieties. I think there is an oil used in chocolate and that oil comes from trees in rainforests. Trees are destroyed and in turn the orangutans lose their habitat. So, we get erotic and feel good while orangutans get closer to exinction. Is that really something to feel so good about?

[ed34]

just remembered, its called palm oil

[Rosemary349]

Another reason not to eat chocolate!

I will check out more expensive varieties and do a bit of research, but no to palm oil then

[ed34]

well, you could look to see if any companies have gone to friendly palm oil where they are grown in specialised forests. I think cadburys are claiming to be doing that now, but not sure.

[ireneo]

This sure is a lot of discussion over a little nibble of chocolate. If chocolate made up 20% of my diet, then I'd be concerned. But to have one Dove dark chocolate promise a day for fun? I'm not going to stress over the sugar or fat content of that.

Focus on a healthy diet overall. Even then you have to worry about the growing conditions of our food supply and how it's handled before it gets to us. Salmonella in my salad worries me more than the bite of chocolate.

Relax all.

irene

[RadioAstronomyObserver]

So... Am I going to get my chocolate or not?

[ireneo]

I'm willing to share if you're willing to risk life and limb. :-)

[RadioAstronomyObserver]

I must be weary of one who eats salmonella regularly.   After a doughnut this morning I'd guess a piece of chocolate couldn't hurt.  The Sun is shinning today, if it's as warm as it looks I'll walk some of it off this afternoon.

[Rosemary349]

LOL!  I know it's just a thread about chocolate but it does make me wonder.  If there's 7 grams of fat in a bar and you eat a bar everyday, what does that 7 grams of fat do?  

Does saturated fat go straight to the arteries?  Or do you have to eat a certain amount of it before it does?

Why is the guideline daily amount of fat 20 grams.  Does that mean we need 20 grams of saturated fat a day?  Or are they saying just don't go over that amount?  If you eat that amount will you still be lining your arteries with it?

I cannot be disciplined with chocolate, it's all or nothing with me - so right now i'm not eating it.

but what's really getting me is that i'm hearing that dark chocolate is heathy and i don't know how they can justify that when it's full of fat.  Surely it doesn't matter what antioxidants are in it if the fat is going to clog up the arteries?   Surely it doesn't matter if it lowers blood pressure if the fat is......you get my drift.  

Unless it's a good fat.....don't know.

[mammo]

Chill out!!!  Who would have thought a little piece of dark chocolate would cause such an uproar!  We all have bigger problems than dark chocolate when it comes to our food sources!  There are special interests groups everywhere and this is why you reference non-biased research on topics.  There is good fat, and bad fat...learn the difference.  Animals are losing their habitat everywhere due to one thing or another, but it always comes back to "us."  I'm 60 years old, never had a heart problem, arteries in good shape, walk 4-6 miles a day, no organs removed, have all my teeth, normal BP, a little on the thin side, still play soccer with my grandson...so if you'll excuse me, I'm going to have some dark chocolate!  

[ed34]

yeah look at milk. In the UK our dairy farmers are going out of business because milk is imported from other countries mainly the USA. It has been discovered they feed cows all kinds of growth hormones which produce infections and ulcers inside the udders. Puss has been discovered in our milk, eeeew.
Most of our chicken in the UK gets shipped to germany where they inject it with water and chemical X. Nobody knows what chemical X is, but it mixes pork and water together to make the chicken weigh more. So when Im buying chicken, am I really buying pig?
The world is a mess and it will definitely get worse. Shortages of bees over the world are causing major crop concerns. In the UK, only the outer edges of many crop fields are being pollenated, the middle doesn't see a single bee.

[RadioAstronomyObserver]

I'm with Rosemary,  I bought a jar of peanuts and looked at the nutrition label, FAT all around!  in fact it said something like 170 calories and 130 of them were from fat, for 39 nuts. Yet they are supposed to be good for you(?). I think what we need is a nutritionist to step into this and answer some questions.

  While browsing this site I have found some forums to ask related questions to this forum, I.E. push-up's and rib cage/sternum stresses, can I do push-ups 7 months after surgery?  I asked this question in the exorcise forum.  Again, while looking around this site I found a nutrition forum.  Maybe we can recruit someone from there to jump in to this thread and educate us?

[mammo]

Peanuts are not the best nuts to eat every day.  It's actually walnuts and then only a small handful.  You will never have to worry about eating an entire dark chocolate bar because it has to be a least 60% or more cocoa, so you'll be happy to get one piece down due to the taste. Below is from WebMD...very reputable.
The New Low-Cholesterol Diet: Nuts
Nuts aren't just for holidays anymore. Key nuts can help you lower cholesterol. Add nuts to your low-cholesterol diet.
By R. Morgan Griffin
WebMD FeatureReviewed by Brunilda Nazario, MD Nuts get a bad rap. A lot of people still see them as salty, fatty, and high calorie -- a junk food deserving exile to the carts of vendors or the snack bowls of dingy, smoky bars.

But nutritionists say that certain nuts deserve an honored spot in the kitchen of every healthy eater (as long as you're not allergic, of course.) Nuts have lots of protein, fiber, healthy monounsaturated fats, vitamins, nutrients, and antioxidants. And many studies have shown that nuts have powerful cholesterol-lowering effects.

The benefits were clear enough for the FDA in 2003 to issue a "qualified health claim" for peanuts and certain tree nuts -- almonds, hazelnuts, pecans, some pine nuts, pistachios, and walnuts. The claim allows some nuts and foods made with them to carry this claim: "Eating a diet that includes one ounce of nuts daily can reduce your risk of heart disease."

So it's time to dust off your nutcrackers or pull the lid off a can of nuts. Taken in moderation, these nuts are good for you.

Walnuts

"Walnuts are great because they have high levels of omega-3 fatty acids," says American Dietetic Association spokeswoman Suzanne Farrell, MS, RD. "Other nuts don't."

Omega-3 fatty acids are also found in fatty fish like tuna and salmon. We know that omega-3 fatty acids lower levels of triglycerides, a type of fat in the bloodstream. Experts are not exactly sure how. Omega-3 fatty acids may also slow down the growth of plaques inthe arteries and prevent blood clots.

There are a number of small studies that show that walnuts help lower cholesterol.

One 2004 study of 58 adults with diabetes looked at the effects of eating a handful of walnuts each day in addition to a healthy diet. The researchers found that on average, people who ate the walnuts had an increase in their good HDL cholesterol and a drop of 10% in their bad LDL cholesterol levels. The results were published in the journal Diabetes Care.

Walnuts received their own, separate qualified health claim from the FDA in 2004, stating that they may reduce the risk of heart disease.

Almonds

Many studies show that almonds have real health benefits too. Like other nuts, they are high in protein, fiber, healthy monounsaturated fats, minerals, and other nutrients. They are also high in vitamin E, an antioxidant.

One researcher, David Jenkins MD, has done many studies of the effects of almonds. In a study, he tested 27 men and women with high cholesterol over three months. People who ate about a handful of almonds a day lowered their bad LDL cholesterol by 4.4%. Those who ate two handfuls lowered it by 9.4%. The results were published in the journal Circulation.

[mammo]

The New Low-Cholesterol Diet: Nuts
Nuts aren't just for holidays anymore. Key nuts can help you lower cholesterol. Add nuts to your low-cholesterol diet.(continued)
continued...
Jenkins also studies the effects of almonds along with other cholesterol-lowering foods. In a study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition in 2005, he and other researchers tested cholesterol-lowering drugs against cholesterol-lowering foods in a group of 34 adults with high cholesterol. Almonds, soy protein, legumes, oats, and fruits and vegetables were among the chosen foods. The results were striking. The diet lowered cholesterol levels about as well as cholesterol drugs.

Other Nuts

"Basically, nuts are good," Farrell tells WebMD. "They're high in vitamins, minerals, and good monounsaturated fat, which can lower cholesterol."

Along with almonds and walnuts, the FDA gave its qualified health claim to peanuts, hazelnuts, pecans, some pine nuts, and pistachios.

Many studies back up their benefits. For example, one small study compared a standard cholesterol-lowering diet with a diet that replaced one-fifth of the calories with pecans. When compared to the standard diet, the pecan diet lowered bad LDL cholesterol by 10.4% and decreased triglycerides by 11.1%. It also raised the levels of good HDL cholesterol by 5.6%. The results were published in The Journal of Nutrition.

Not all nuts offer equal benefits. The FDA cut Brazil nuts, macadamia nuts, cashew nuts, and some varieties of pine nuts from the qualified health claim. This is because of their high fat content. But in moderation, even these nuts may have some of the same benefits.

For instance in one small study, 17 men with high cholesterol ate about 1.5 to 3.5 ounces of macadamia nuts each day. After four weeks, their total cholesterol dropped an average of 3% and their bad LDL cholesterol dropped 7%. The results were published in The Journal of Nutrition in 2003.

Getting Nuts Into Your Diet

Nuts are easy to work into your meal plan. Some nuts traditionally come still in the shell. But you can buy most of them pre-shelled at a grocery store. They don't need any preparation. Just eat a handful as a snack or add them to a trail mix. You don't need very many anyway.

You can also use nuts as a condiment. Sprinkle them on your salad, cereal, yogurt, fruit, vegetables, or entrees, suggest Keecha Harris, DrPh, RD and Ruth Frechman, RD, both spokeswomen for the ADA. Use nuts in pasta salads or in hot soups.

However, don't get seduced by anything less than a pure nut. "When you're choosing nuts, make sure to get them raw and unsalted," Farrell tells WebMD. Honey-roasted, chocolate covered, and other candied nuts give you extra calories that you don't need.

How Much Do You Need?

You can get the health benefits of nuts from just a handful a day. About 1 to 1.5 ounces is plenty, experts say. The high protein and fiber in nuts make them very filling. Make sure you don't overdo it.

[mammo]

continued...
"Although nuts have a lot of benefits, they're also high in calories that can add up fast," says Farrell. Gaining weight is likely to undo any of the heart-healthy effects of these foods.

The best way to add nuts to your diet is to use them to replace less healthy fats -- like saturated fats in meats. That way you're gaining the benefits of nuts without adding more calories.

Hope this helps!!!

[mammo]

Good Fats vs. Bad Fats
Basically, there are two groups of fats: saturated and unsaturated. Within each group are several more types of fats.

Let's start with the good guys -- the unsaturated fats. Unsaturated fats include polyunsaturated fatty acids and monounsaturated fats. Both mono- and polyunsaturated fats, when eaten in moderation and used to replace saturated or trans fats, can help lower cholesterol levels and reduce your risk of heart disease.

Polyunsaturated fats, found mostly in vegetable oils, help lower both blood cholesterol levels and triglyceride levels -- especially when you substitute them for saturated fats. One type of polyunsaturated fat is omega-3 fatty acids, whose potential heart-health benefits have gotten a lot of attention.

Omega-3s are found in fatty fish (salmon, trout, catfish, mackerel), as well as flaxseed and walnuts. And it's fish that contains the most effective, "long-chain" type of omega-3s. The American Heart Association recommends eating 2 servings of fatty fish each week.

"Plant sources are a good substitute for saturated or trans fats, but they are not as effective as fatty fish in decreasing cardiovascular disease," notes Lichtenstein. Do keep in mind that your twice-weekly fish should not be deep-fat fried!

It is best to get your omega-3s from food, not supplements, Lichtenstein says: "Except for people with established heart disease, there is no data to suggest omega-3 supplements will decrease heart disease risk."

The other "good guy" unsaturated fats are monounsaturated fats, thought to reduce the risk of heart disease. Mediterranean countries consume lots of these -- primarily in the form of olive oil -- and this dietary component is credited with the low levels of heart disease in those countries.

Monounsaturated fats are typically liquid at room temperature but solidify if refrigerated. These heart-healthy fats are typically a good source of the antioxidant vitamin E, a nutrient often lacking in American diets. They can be found in olives; avocados; hazelnuts; almonds; Brazil nuts; cashews; sesame seeds; pumpkin seeds; and olive, canola, and peanut oils.

The 'Bad' Fats in Your Diet
Now on to the bad guys. There are two types of fat that should be eaten sparingly: saturated and trans fatty acids. Both can raise cholesterol levels, clog arteries, and increase the risk for heart disease.

Saturated fats are found in animal products (meat, poultry skin, high-fat dairy, and eggs) and in vegetable fats that are liquid at room temperature, such as coconut and palm oils. The 2005 Dietary Guidelines recommend limiting saturated fats to 10% or less of your total calories, while the American Heart Association recommends keeping them to just 7% of total calories.

Lichtenstein recommends using liquid vegetable oils in place of animal or partially hydrogenated fats.

"There is evidence that saturated fats have an effect on increasing colon and prostate cancer risk, so we recommend whenever possible to choose healthy unsaturated fats -- and always strive to be at a healthy weight," Doyle explains.

[ireneo]

The caveat about nuts should be in big red letters -

" However, don't get seduced by anything less than a pure nut. "When you're choosing nuts, make sure to get them raw and unsalted," Farrell tells WebMD. Honey-roasted, chocolate covered, and other candied nuts give you extra calories that you don't need. "

Many of the flavored nuts are so loaded with sodium and extra oils that we don't need that. So watch your nuts. :-)

[Rosemary349]

Thanks everyone

well it makes for slightly lighter reading I suppose.  lol!

I'm otherwise preoccupied now, see my latest post but i will come back and read this thoroughly tomorrow (it's late where i live).  Thanks for all the info Mammo!

[ed34]

"Omega-3s are found in fatty fish (salmon, trout, catfish, mackerel), as well as flaxseed and walnuts. And it's fish that contains the most effective, "long-chain" type of omega-3s. The American Heart Association recommends eating 2 servings of fatty fish each week. "

The full story has to be given with their claims. Tinned tuna for example has virtually no omega oils left in it, it has to be fresh tuna. Trout has to be natural and not farm trout because farm trout doesnt seem to contain the same levels. Salmon is the same.

If you want convenience and only have time to eat from tins, then pilchards or sardines are brilliant,, even the ones in tomato juice. Mackeral is also very high in oils.

[Rosemary349]

Great i eat sardines and they only cost pennies in the tins.

Today i am eating farmed salmon, but i know a lot about that particular farm and i trust that it's good - but i will try to stick to wild salmon where possible.

On the subject of salmon, forgetting chocolate for a minute (LOL)....there's still saturated fat in it - so should i grill it?  I usually cook it in it's foil and eat it all including all the fatty bits...thinking i was being healthy?  

Anyone know what's the story on frozen fish?  It doesn't seem as oily although they claim on the packaging that it's rich in omega 3.

[RadioAstronomyObserver]

  I bake my fish in tin foil with various flavorings and eat everything except the foil, pretty much as you say you do/did.  For the better fish I would do what you have been doing, reading the above I'd assume it's just a mater of the M word, moderation(?) but I'm more than willing to listen to alternate opinions.

[mammo]

Fish....yuck.  You guys were more fun when it was about chocolate! :D

[erijon]

Wow, some great info on this thread. But after reading it and absorbing everything said, the main thing I'm taking away is that I will still sneak a little dark chocolate every now and then....................... life is too short!

Jon

[Flycaster305]

I agree, it's been fun.  I've tried to ignore this advice, but I can't help myself...
Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker!  

[ireneo]

Aha - you couldn't resist! Alcohol also sets off my arrhythmias. Shoot. I can't have any fun any more. LOL

As for fish, the fish oils are good for you unless you have gall bladder issues. And let's not forget the mercury levels. I'll stick with walnuts and flax seed (has to be ground by the way).