MI/Thrombosis after Marijuana...?

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I have a semi-long story which I'd like you to read and help me out as to what's going on:

Here's the background: I'm a 20-year old male, perfect health pretty much, low cholesterol (145), and about 20 pounds underweight. I've never smoked tobacco.

Anyway, back in August 1999, I smoked a marijuana cigarette for the first time. Within 15 minutes, my entire body was shaking (I was twitching involuntarily every few seconds), and my heart was going at about 150 bpm, possibly even more. I felt extremely "heavy" and lethargic when standing up... This was not pleasant. There was no chest pain (yet). BTW, before anyone suggests it was "laced", a friend smoked the same cigarette with me and had no problems.

30 minutes after smoking, I could tell something was going terribly wrong. I was concentrating on breathing calmly
and deeply, to try and lower my heart rate. I was having "pins and needles" all over my limbs. At this point, I experienced what I'm now convinced was a minor (major?) heart attack. I'm absolutely serious, and I've since read that sensitive (or susceptible) people do in fact get heart attacks from smoking marijuana. I had an unbelievably intense pain right where my heart "seems to be" (under my left pectoral muscle). It was like someone jammed a knife directly into my heart. The "fire" would throb and radiate outward. I can't tell you enough how painful this was.

At some point during this attack, I felt my heart go from about 150 bpm down to about 50 bpm within 30 seconds. I had my hand over my heart to monitor it, you see. Granted, my sense of time
was a little warped, but something was definitely going wrong. I was seeing spots, and was giving myself a pathetic version of CPR (basically just pushing on my chest with both hands repeatedly).
My vision was surrounded by blackness. After the severe drop in Beats per Minute, I took my hand off my heart for a second and then put it back. I swear to God, I couldn't feel my heart beating. I still don't know whether it had stopped temporarily, or was just a very very weak beat. My chest and head were hot as hell, and I was in this cold sweat. When my heart apparently stopped, the darkness on my vision increased until I *almost* blacked out completely. I snapped out of it momentarily, in a confused as hell state.

Now, I was in a dilemma here -- if I went to the ER, eventually my parents would find out, as they have all the insurance stuff. They'd be mortified to learn that I had smoked marijuana. I didn't know what to do, and all through this attack I didn't say a single word to anyone. In retrospect, this was a stupid idea, but in my tripped-out state I'd've rather died than have my parents find out about this.

Back to the story: I continued giving myself this faux CPR, and pounding on my chest with my fist. Over the next few
hours, the pain came on and off, but never to the point of near-blackout, as before. Eventually, about 5 hours after smoking, it sort of leveled off into this non-painful
feeling where it felt like I had a stone sitting in my ribcage. Like I could actually feel my heart in my body.

"OK, great", I thought. "I lived, now I hope this chest feeling goes away by tomorrow." It didn't. In fact, five months later (this was in August 1999, remember), and it's still here. It's almost like a constant, round-the-clock angina, for lack of a better description. It's there when I wake up, it's there when I go to sleep.

It varies in intensity seemingly randomly. At the best times, it's just an annoyance. At the worst times, it's semi-painful, but not anywhere as near as bad as that first attack. Temporary exercise (running for 1 minute) doesn't seem to make it worse, but one thing does -- caffeine. See, before this attack, I could drink caffeine all day with no problems. Now, if I even have one can of Coke, in 30 minutes I feel like I'm on the verge of a heart attack.

More recently, I finally worked up the courage to tell my parents that I have to go to the doctor, because of a pain on the left side of my chest. What I didn't say is that it's because of the marijuana smoking. I just said that I didn't know what it was from. Well, so far, I've had a chest X-ray which was apparently normal. I'm hoping to get some kind of exercise treadmill stress test, which I'm positive will detect some kind of abnormality. Now, I know the advice many of you might give is "Tell the doctor the truth" but honestly, I don't really have that option at this point. It's a tough situation. The good thing is, after I graduate college (16 months), I'll get my own med. insurance, and I can tell whoever my doctor is then what really happened.

Anyway (this is winding down... heh), I did some research and found a case of a coronary thrombosis in an otherwise healthy 32-year-old man after smoking marijuana. After reading the description of how he looked, felt, etc, I'm now convinced the same thing happened to me. Fortunately, that's where the similarity ends -- this guy died. I now take an aspirin every day to prevent anything further from occuring, but the "angina" is always present.

The bottom line -- does *anyone* know exactly what may have happened that day? And if it is a coronary thrombosis, what are the treatments? Angioplasty? Warfarin? Or... dare I say it... heart transplant?

Thanks for reading all this. Responses are greatly appreciated.

-= Mike =-

[CCF CARDIO MD - DLB]

No one can say for sure what happened that day. It might have been an arrhythmia or possibly, as you suggest, a heart attack. The marijuana may have been laced with something; the fact that your friend was OK does not prove anything. Hopefully, you have stopped all drug usage.  You ought to tell your doctor the truth. Otherwise, he may conclude that your symptoms are due to anxiety (which may in fact be correct). Most likely, you are having palpitations, and with simple testing your doctor will be able to diagnose this. Less likely, the drug usage that night caused some sort of permanent heart damage. Again, your doctor is unlikely to pursue this possibility without hearing about the entire episode.

[John]

Get an echocardiography test done. You sound like a classic MVPS/Dysautonomia case. Mike, Marijuana is against the law.

[shannon]

Mike, I don't quite understand why you are so set against telling the truth.  Yeah, your parents will be disappointed in you. On the other hand, you can make a strong case for having had a terrible experience and having learned to never do it again.  

I think you are doing yourself a disservice by concealing the truth, both from your parents and your doctor. Medically, not telling the truth might not make much of a difference but do you really want to have something you've got to conceal for the rest of your parents' lives?

Guess what?  most of us parents have done something stupid, too. I don't think smoking marijuana will be cause for your parents to disown you, especially since you appear to have learned your lesson.

my two cents.  Please forgive me if this sounds preachy -- just hoping to give you another point of view to think about.

shannon

[Missy]

Mike, my point of view on this matter is; you need to tell the Doctor exactly what happened and why so he can figure out exactly whats going on with you. If you dont he may assume somthing not of great danger, then on the other hand it may be. Its for your own safety. I have never heard of marijuanna harming anyone, but if anyone has any info please pass it on. I'm not a user myself but do know of some people. Thanks

[Diane]

Mike, tell your doctor the whole story. You are 20 right? Your first priority should be your well being. Why in the world would you think your doctor would tell your parents all the details. Is he/she a relative, neighbor? There is such a thing called doctor/patient confidentiality. And even, if by chance they find out the details, they will get over it. I'm talking from experience. My now 20 year old was caught once at 16. I'm glad I found out. Yes, I was terribly disappointed initially, but came to realize that what happened, happened. He made a mistake and learned from it. He is still my son and I love (and trust) him deeply. I believe that your parents, like myself, will realize that this one time incident was a lesson well learned for you.

[Laura Green]

I was!  A daily marijuana smoker listen to me.  It has been 1 year ago I underwent open-heart surgery.  I had rheumatic fever & heart disease since the age of 10 y/o.  I thought the marijuana was taking all my pain away and I could do anything, Boy was that a total lie.  I am 35 now with an artificial heart valve that is keeping me alive and let me tell you it is not fun at all.  I am sorry to say I realize marijuana is extremely addictive too too late!  I will confess this to you! Do you know even after my surgery (because I was so use to smoking a joint to feel better)I took a few puffs and ended my stupid but back in the hospital & from my X-Ray the doctor knew I had smoked.  What does that tell you!  Marijuana is no good for anyone, It is extremely dangerous & I also believe I would have recovered from my surgery a lot faster If I didn't do that stupid thing.  One more thing I also had to go back & have fluid removed from my lungs they had to insert a huge needle through my back & it hurted like hell.  I hope I scared you enough for you to listen. I smoked hardly no cigaretts only Marijuana.  It hurted me & the meds that I have to be on for the rest of my life makes me bleed occasionally in my stomache.  Do it seem worth it now!!!!!!!!!!! Be smart DO NOT THINK FOR A SECOND IT IS SAFE.  MY CARDIOLOGIST SAID, "ONE MORE DAY & I WOULD HAVE DIED OF CONGESTIVE HEART FAILURE.  THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cathy]

Mike:

If you're 20 years old, your parents shouldn't be very old, either.  There's always the possibility they tried smoking pot when they were teens, too; products of the 60's and 70's?

You sound like a smart guy. Don't you think your parents would MUCH rather see you alive and being treated for having smoked a joint, than dead for having been so worried, you kept it from them?

I'm a young mom; my oldest son would be 21 year old now, had he lived beyond "toddler-hood." I now have a teenager with medical problems. I am scared to death of what is wrong and what the doctors will find. But the point is, I want him alive.

If you do have something seriously wrong, you NEED to find out. You could ask the physician to keep the fact about the marijuana confidential and not document that part of your history, if you are that concerned. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. What's more important is that you find out what happened and LIVE.

As far as it sounding like the joint was laced, it does; everyone reacts differently. There are a lot of strange drugs out there nowadays--I certainly wouldn't mess around with it.

If your parents are good to you and love you, like I said, they would rather know the truth and have you alive. Life is all that matters, Mike, life and love.

Good luck, take care, and no more weed, okay?

[Maria]

I have never before read anything quite like your post.  I seriously can't believe most of it.  20 years old and so afraid to disclose this "secret" to your parents, let alone your Doctor?  Please, this is really too much.  But if this really happened, it sounds very  much like anxiety.  anyway, if this is on the level, you need to see a doctor--you obviously have been to doctor, you know your cholesterol numbers.  And there is a little something called "doctor/patient confidentiality".  If you are in college, go to a doctor on campus (believe me, they have heard it all).  Lastly, if this is real, what you smoked was probably laced with something stronger.  Be careful out there!

[p]

Hey Mike,

bro tell the truth.  I am a 19 year old college student male.  I am suffering from some kind of heart problem which causes me to get rapid heartbeats and palpitations (So I know what you feel).

Go to the Dr. and tell him/her the truth.  Your parents won't care.  Believe me they will still love you.

Please go to a Cardiologist.  Don't worry about the money.

Regards:P

[Kara Marie]

Mike, I had something sort of similar happen to me once or twice.  It was not as intense as the experience you spoke of, but intense enough to scare me.  It was within the first 3 times i smoked marijuana.  I was with several friends outside behind an old building.  We each had our own joint (dumb on my part).  At first I was ok and then all of a sudden, something spooked me.  I started to "freak out."  I was shaking, breaking out in a cold sweat and my heart was really racing.  I did find out that the marijuana was laced with "crank."  I did not have serious chest pains, but I did feel as though I were blacking out.  These syptoms (symptoms) went away within a half and hour and never returned.  You must tell your doctor everything that happened!  By law, he/she cannot tell your parents squat.  This is a very strange case and you may have something wrong in there that has very little to do with the marijuana, but was brought on by it at that time.  Good luck, Kara

[jonas]

(Please have patience with my spelling and gramtical stuff) :)

Hi Mike, I think this is a psychological problem. What happen that special day scared the **** out of you. And made a little scar in your mind. Why your body reacted that way to the THC or whatever is was in that joint is hard to say. But I can say it's pretty easy to get paniced when using mindaltering substances. Once I had a similar experience on a quit strong LSD trip.

I had very strong visions and toughts..(to advanced and abstract to explain here..)... Suddenly my heartrate went up, I started to get little nervous about it..."Why is my heart beating this fast?"

....and because I got nervous my heartrate rised even more up...Then I started to get scared "Holy ****!, what is going on with my heart..?"

...Because I got scared my heartrate rised even even more. "How much can my body handle before I die!?"

...When your coming to this state I can say it really is easy to totally freak out. It's like an evil spiral... your rational thinking gets blocked beacuse of all stress.

Fortuntly after while my heart got tired. Kind of getting out of that energy needed for that hard beating. I didn't get a heartattack.

I told my friend about my painful situation, and he told me: "Well, you can't really die on LSD, unless you jump out of a building, physcial overdose will require millions of trips taken together which no one can afford anyway..and it can't be laced with something else--because no other substances than LSD is potent enough to have any effect on that little blotter"

Anyway I was still very scared and my heart went going.. so I took one very strong sleeping pill, manage to drink some wine. The synergy of the alcohol and the pill, really psycially calmed my body down. Felt like I was walking on clouds after that treatment.

Anyway this was one of the scariest things I have ever experienced.

Stupid, and not learning a lession of it. I took LSD again, one week afterwards. I had no problem at all until I tried to smoke som marijuana. Then got back to the state I experienced before..but fortunatly after a few minutes I succeded to shake it of.

Months after that I could get stressattacks when I was totally sober anywhere unexpected. In the classroom, on movietheaters..often on places where you were most afraid to get them.

But afterwhile, I learned to control my fear. And everthing is ok now. I think you will manage it to.

Just don't let those moralist get into your mind and scare you. Telling you that you've done something very dangerous or illegal. Just be careful, and don't use drugs if it make you feel bad. There are many drugs out there that are scientic proven unhealthy so watch out. But don't listen to those stupid overmoral realigous people who just want to scare you and don't know ****. Talk with a good psycholigist or a medical professional.

Peace & Love!

/Jonas

[Reply to Jonas]

It was good to read your expert advice to the young man. It seems as if you have made quite a success of yourself, and from reading your post, it was very difficult to tell that you had ever used drugs. I wish you future success in spreading your message to other young people like Mike. Do you speak at High Schools? This forum is far too small for a message as large as yours. Please keep coming back!!!!

[J. Miller]

Mike, I have a very similar situation. I am 22 years old with chest pain. This pain varies from a quick jab of sharp pain to the left of my sternum to a dull ache 2 inches below my left nipple. On occasion I feel the pains shoot strait to my back (behind my heart.)

I have had:

Two echoes
Four different chest x-rays (in the ER every time I visit)
Stress test (Tredmill/EKG).
Cardio enzymes.
Thyroid Profile.
Standard blood work over the past 2 years.
An upper GI to rule out acid reflux and Hiatus Hyena
Gall bladder echo.
A chest CAT scan w/out contrast.
EKG

[Carrie]

Mike, I do not think this is anything serious. I have experienced the exact same thing and I do have reaccuring symptoms. I saw my doctor, went to the e.r. and evertime they said that it is no cause for concern. I still do suggest that you ask to see a specialist. You can tell your doctor the truth (and you should) and by law he/she cannot tell anyone what you've said. I think the initial symptoms were indicitive of first time marijuana use. Your other symptoms sound more like (at the very worst) a harmless arrthymia or mytral valve prolapse. I have had these same things happen to me for about 2 or 3 years now. I am seeing another doctor this week. Don't be afraid to get checked. Its almost always nothing serious especially in someone your age. I'm 22. Its scary but you'll live, I promise. Please don't worry too much. I think seeing a specialist will ease your mind.

[Gayle]

I had a "real" heart attack a few hours after New Year's Eve.  I had been drinking, eating rich food and smoking lots of pot at a party.  By 8:00 the next morning, I was in ICU, with a heart attack!  That was 7 years ago.  Last weekend, I was partying with some friends and had something similar to what you described.  I thought it was an anxiety attack, but I think it may have been another heart attack.  I took asprin, niacin, and layed down on the floor for about an hour.  I felt better, but something deep inside me said, "no more pot".  I am 47 years old and have smoked pot for over 30 years.  No doctor EVER asked me about marijana use.  They seem to be concerned mainly with cigarettes.  It's time we educate them about just how many people use pot and start getting some straight answers as to it's effect.  It's a secret we can't keep anymore.

[Kev]

Hi mike .. after reading your report I had to think back to when i was younger and out partying / tokin .. i remember times things like this happened to me although never quite to the same affect i do no however when smoking mariuana that you are very suseptiable to anxiety attacks which could cause alot of those symptoms .. on the other hand i ve had chest pain since i was younger and smoked up to .. although i have many tests done on my heart nothing has showed up as far as problems .. the pain still persists .. Pot does inhance your awarness of your body though and things goin on inside are sometimes blown out of proportion by it.. i still think it is a good idea to consult with your physician and even if you do tell your physician there not allowed to divoldge information without your concent are they?..
best of luck to you on an outcome
Kev

[[e-mail]]

Mike, print out your question and everyones responses and give it to your parents.  Their disappointment will be temporary (relatively speaking).  If you have learned that DRUGS CAN HARM YOU and you have discontinued their use then be sure to relate that fact to them.  Dang it, boy, you're young.  You're in college.  That **** is everywhere.  You were stupid to try it but you've gained quite a bit of knowledge from it (like not to do it any more, right?).  It sounds as though you're lucky to be alive.  Some folks do die from what others think is a relatively mild drug.  You never know your body's "make up" and what it can take.  I know two people you are drunk before they finish one can of beer.

You've been taught a very valuable lesson.  Learn from it.

I've heard stories almost like yours.  Just because many people smoke pot doesn't mean that your body is capable of taking it.

You sound fairly intelligent (not that I'm one to judge).  Honesty is the ONLY way to go through all of life - less stress.  TELL THE DOCTOR EVERYTHING but tell your parents first.  The self-induced stress that you carry about worring that they might find out is certainly not helping anything.

It truly is cool to Just Say No.

Regardless, (and I apologize for my rambling), take care.

[Aris]

Hello Mike. I have been smoking pot for 2 years every day,(now i'm clean for about 2 years. I'm 20 years old now,and i think i have anxiety disorder wich i can control now by doing things that release all the adrenalin i have with a nice way (extreme sports,hard music etc.) . When i was smoking pot,i experienced the symptoms you have only in a milder way maybe cause it never occured to me my heart was not functioning well. Since then,for other reasons i had taken 4 ECG's and 1 ECHO and nothing is wrong with me. But as it is prooven,pot increases the anxiety level very much! A friend doctor that i was discussing with told me people that have developed severe anxiety symptoms of marijuana.
I don't think there is something wrong with you,but a check with the doctor for reassurance is best.

Good luck pal,and don't smoke marijuana...

[bob]

Ya know, I used to smoke marijuana a hell of a lot. I'm 17 years old and virtually everyone I know smokes it. I do not any longer. What brought this on is I was having trouble breathing and also extremely depressed. I stopped doing drugs and smoking and it stopped (after about 4 weeks). This is just my personal experience. I have a friend who had that pins and needles thing going on when he did his first hit. He smokes it alot now and doesn't seem to have that or any other kind of problems anymore but then again he smokes it in joints now and doesn't take hits. I do know marijuana is definately bad for your health. I know people who cough up blood, cannot sleep at night, get cold sweats, are so paranoid Mulder would be envious, are depressed, have no motivation. It's the worst drug around I swear because everyone thinks it is safe. What a load of ****. Hmm anyway, tell your doctor, your parents aren't going to find out if you tell him to keep it confidential and if they do, you will work it out eventually. It's not like you raped someone man, we all make mistakes you just have to live, learn and grow from the experience.

[Bill Heartman]

Sounds to me like you had an Asthmatic epiosode triggered by the
the smoke.  The body can respond to asthma by releasing adrenalin, hoping to increase blood flow through the lungs to obtain more air.  I've had allerghy induced asthma for 25 years and often felt just as you described.

[ExcessiveToker]

Well, I have smoked marijuana (for better or worse) for the last 10 years, most days.

About 5 years ago I experienced something I've never before had, it basically follows the plot that has been described here in this thread.

You think you feel a bit unusual, then you start noticing your breathing and your heart rate. As soon as you start to monitor your heart rate it starts (apparently) to rise, your breathing becomes faster and the escalation begins.

Within a few minutes you feel like anything that could be wrong with you is wrong with you - a heart attack is a favourite it seems. This state can last up to 1.5 hours (give or take) and seems to have three primary influences :

1 Lowered blood pressure from smoking
2 Increased heart rate from smoking
3 Mild paranoia, suprise, suprise again from smoking

These three well documented effects can sometimes conspire to highten paranoia which essentially triggers a panic/anxiety attack - which to many many people is interpreted as a heart attack, impedeing sense of doom etc....

Anyway, as I was saying this happened to me once - I was certainly freaked - went to the hospital. The doctor checked blood oxygenation (100%/Saturated - mostly due to the hyperventiation I had going on for the preceeding hour) and did an ECG, fast but fairly normal, occasionally erratic.

He said, have you drunk anything (no) have you done heavy exercise (are you kidding?) have you toked the weed (not his words but the answer was yes)..ah! The doctor concluded that I had a seemingly healthy heart etc but that the weed had induced an anxiety attack. He said he had seen this a few times although it usually affected new/first-time smokers - however background mental stress can increase the likliehood of it happening.

Even seasoned smokers can be caught off guard, despite being used to the depressed blood pressure and elevated heart rate that follows a smoke.

It took me a few months to shake the thing completely, once you know that it can happen - you tend to constantly worry that it is going to happen - this in itself is enough to trigger another attack.

The key is learning to understand what an anxiety attack is and how to deal with it.

Most people experience them (without ever going near a reefer, drink or cigarette) and very few people fail to cope with them in the long run.

Be aware that marijuana can act as a catalyst is some people, under certain conditions.

Forewarned is forearmed, or something.

good luck

ET

[Laura]

I totaly agree with ET, i smoked for a long time and had a similar episode. The thing was, is that it happens to me without any stimulant. My doctor told me it probably triggered it that time, but it can also happen with no direct reason. Don't listen to those people telling you that its wrong and evil. Yeah its an indulgence just like alchohol or chocolate! but its not as bad as some people here are making out and they have probably never even tried it , which says it all.

Nearly everyone I know smokes dope, young and old and haven't had any trouble. My doctor had a similar thing happen to him when he smoked some potent **** in India, but he didn't tell me to hide away and never touch these indulgences, he told me I couldn't live my life stopping myself doing anything that might cause it.( including caffine and alchohol)

My point is, that I was scared for months after it happened and took my pulse every five minutes and worked myself into having more episodes, which is totaly self destructive.
Dont worry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!and be honest to the people who can help you out.
Take care.

[steve]

Interesting that you should be concerned about the residual pain in the chest...

Try something. Locate the pain. Then take your thumb and press it against your chest where the pain seems to be located. Keep moving your thumb around until you pinpoint the exact location of the pain. The push hard with your thumb.

If you can reproduce that intense pain and locate the precise spot where you can recreate it by pressing your thumb, I would suggest that you damaged some cartilage in between two of your ribs performing CPR on yourself.

25 years ago I played rubgy and took a hit to the ribs that was not so nice. It tore a piece of cartiledge. To this day, I can reproduce the pain by pushing with my thumb on that spot. And when I am active, i.e., when my heartrate and respiration increase, guess what...?

My ribcage is also moving to a greater extent than when resting. Ribs move. Cartilage with damaged spot rubs against ribs. Major pain. Literally.

Though the above is simply a guess, there is one rule of thumb. If you can reproduce the pain by pressing on the spot where it hurts, the pain is most likely caused by muscles, tendons, or cartilage acting up.