More ?'s about pac's pvc's

[Mommyplus6]

I would like to say how much I admire your willingness to take time out of your day to answer questions.
I can say how grateful I am to have this outlet.I have gained much insight.My fear is still there but it helps to know I am not alone.
  I have panic disorder& I had a terrible bout of pac's pvc's after a day of dehydration.exhertion.
I am deconditioned but am active and losing steadily.
I am 28 years old,do not drink,no drugs,never ever coffee have not drank soda since 1987,no chocolate.Mother of 5.
have had numerous ekgs,countless blood tests,my numbers are 160& 71 & the doc says I need to get my one number down.My fatty blood tests have been 200- 230 since age18.
I am currently battling a bout of bronchitis, 2 weeks which I think is caused from allergies/gerd.
questions?
can improper sleeping/anxiety cause muscle smasms in the left chest above the breast?I get scared because it feels like my heart when in good sense I know its muscular?
Can bronchitis cause&increase in pvc's when you are not rested&even though I am staying very hydrated I am just not hungry/ am afraid to eat for fear of triggering  skips.
I notice more pvc's when I have eaten a banana-conincidence or something more?What causes muscle spasms in the chest(never no pain just see the skin)?
Is it possible that I have had pvc's for most of my life&not know until I became hypervigilant to my body?
My holter recorded more pac's then pvc's. any signifigance?
why do I get chest pains when I have gas,belching?
one day I ate barley,broccoli,salmon&20 mins I was in pain&loose stools,then ok

[debbiedeb]

hi goodgal, sorry i posted my previous comment to giga72 instead of you. probably because ive been on this site for about two hours and i think its time to call it a night. thanks will be waiting to hear from you debbie

[debbiedeb]

i was wondering where you got you natural progesterone cream? i am currently awaiting lab results to see if my progesterone level is low. i truly believe there is a connection. i am 45 years old and think i may be entering into perimenopause. my pvc's have increased over the last six months and all of the tests i have had were ok. i just started taking st. johns wort today as i am also having alot of anxiety. i take coq 10 , vit c, magnesium and vit e along with a multi vit. i really hope the st. johns wort helps. thanks,deb

[angelapple]

Hi all, just wondering can you tell the difference between a pvC and a pac?  I feel skipped-extra beats once in a while.  Last week I had 3 episodes, all lasting hours of a bloop, and then it started.  I was diagnosed 15 years ago with MVP and last year dr. said I had pvc's.  What is the difference between pvc and pac?  Thanks

[squeala7]

Hi Valeria. With your age, go have your hormones checked. If the drs wont do them - go online and order your own saliva hormone tests. You are in the perimenopause stage and a SURE trigger to your heart problems! 60% of women going into menopause experience them - even years before - your body begins to decrease estrogen and that causes heart fluctuations. If you can keep a diary, write down the days during the month you notice them. If it seems cyclic....its probably hormones and you can get relief by getting the proper NATURAL estrogen or progesterone supplments. (The reason I say make sure its natural is because synthetic hormones are known causers of 'vasospasms' which causes your heart to do all sorts of funky things. Believe me - Ive been through all of that and Im only 37! Anyway - check the hormones! Mine always occurs around ovulation and up through my period. If you have one good week during the month - then its cyclic! Good luck!

[squeala7]

Hi! I just wanted to throw in a quick note that I dont think banana's are a coincidence when it comes to PVC's. Banana's are one of the highest foods that turn into glucose the fastest in the body. I get the same thing when I drink orange juice, eat simple sugars, or a banana. It shouldnt affect you if you don't have a glucose or insulin problem. My estrogen to insulin is not the way it should be, so I experience the same thing you do.  Maybe a coincidence, but if it happens everytime you eat the banana, it cant be a coincidence. Maybe your eating it on an empty stomach and the sugar is hitting you too fast. Especially if your deconditioned - could all run hand in hand. insulin is a HUGE factor.  Good luck!

[evening]

I have been reading through all your comments and was wondering if you could please help me determine whether what I have is a PVC.  I have been experiencing abnormal pulsations/palpitations in my chest which when acute bring on sudden coughing.  I also get chest pains (not directly from the irregular beats - they do not hurt) and dyspnoea on occasions which led the doctor to dismiss it as anxiety.  But after reading all of your stories I am inclined to believe I too have PVC.

[AmosDoyle]

I have been taking Inderal for about 10 years.  I started out taking it at 25mg four times a day for a total of 100mg per day.  At the time I had a lot of internal anxiety, (still do)  and PACs.  I also took Xanax at the same time.

Over the years I have stopped and started Inderal so that now I only take it if I am having a bad bout of palpitations. (My doctor tells me that this is not a good way to take a beta blocker.)  I tried the cardio-specific beta blockers, Tenormin and Toprol but I think I needed the more general beta blocker Inderal so I don't take the cardio-specific ones anymore.  I have them in the refrigerator so if I run out of Inderal, I would still have a beta blocker to take in an emergency.  I think that the cardio-specific beta blockers are fine but I just think that, for me, since my entire nervous system seems to be sensitized, a general beta blocker is best.

In my PDR (1999) I see that "The usual maintenance dosage (for hypertension) is 120 mg to 240 mg per day.  In some instances a dosage of 640 mg a day may be required." For arrhythmias, 10 mg to 30 mg three or four times daily is recommended. There is a long-acting form of Inderal called Inderal LA which only has to be taken once a day.

Inderal has a long history of safe usage and as you know it is used to attenuate various symptoms and conditions.  One must remember that the recommendations in the PDR are just that --- recommendations and are given primarily to protect the drug company from legal claims.  Many doctors use the PDR recommendations as a starting point and often prescribe at levels above the recommendations and for uses for which the drug was not originally approved.

Currently I take Inderal as needed at 25 mg.  Usually 1 pill helps me to decrease the PVCs and PACs but only if I cooperate with the medication. If one 25 mg pill doesn't seem to work I take another.  Usually I need them in the afternoon or in the evening.  Rarely do I ever need them in the morning or early afternoon.  Admittedly, there are times when nothing works to stop the palpitations.  Then I try some breathing exercises, drinking water through a handkerchief, progressive relaxation, creative visualization or I just lie on my stomach propped up on my elbows. Now in an emotional crisis however, when I'm squirting adrenaline into my system by the gallons, nothing helps!

I have found that stopping the beta blockers abruptly seems to cause more palpitations for a while for me, so if I start taking Inderal every day for a while, I try to wean myself off of it so I won't be bothered my more palpitations.

[papabear1954]

Amos, you write very well. I always enjoy reading your posts. Now with that said, may I ask you what your current dosage of Inderal is? Myself, I think I must of been one of the first people ever to take Inderal. A cardiologist started me on it back in 1974 because it was effective for treating PAT's and sinus tach. The PVC's came on a little later and have at times been so troublesome to me that the doctors have just kept me on the Inderal, so here I sit 28 years later, and still taking Inderal. My initial dosage was something like 40 mgs a day, but over the years has had to be raised, I guess in order to remain effective. I would imagine that my body, which is also about 60 pounds heavier then it was at the age of 19, has somewhat built up some tolerance to this drug. But I know that it's working to some degree because I can sure feel the difference if I miss a dose - I can feel my pulse in every part of my body. I'm currently taking 120 mgs a day. I have not had any PAT's in years but man oh man, as I get older these PAC's and PVC's on some days, just about drive me up the wall. Naturally, I would not take it on my own to change the dosage of my medication, but I am curious to know how long that you have taken it and also what your dosage is. I did have an emergency room Dr. tell me fairly recently that about half of the skips that I was feeling during a particularly bad episode, were in fact PAC's and she thought that it would be a good idea if I talked to my regular Dr. about increasing my Inderal dosage because it might help to cut down on the number of PAC's, even if not the PVC's. But looking at the PDR, it looks to me like I'm already on a pretty high dosage for what it's supposed to be treating. Anyway, just curious to know about your experience with this drug. Thank you!

[evesme]

HI,
Just Dx with "Hyperdynamic Heart Syndrome". Can't find it anywhere.  Anyone heard of it?

Symtoms....

Unexpected heart rate from 80 to 150 and unable to lower it. Low bp.  Always exhausted. Dizzy, cold sweat, etc. Stress-echo normal except heart rate just races up and wears me out.  Internal and external triggers both cause it but situation that some would think stressful don't affect me, yet watching an action movie with make me head for the nitro.
Cardio Doc said it not my heart but he never talks so went to my internist.

My internist Doc. made Dx of HHS and prescribed combo of SSRI's (Zoloft 100mg) and beta blocker's (Toprol-XL 100mg.)  It already seems to be helping and I have had symtoms for 5+ years and 3 angiograms and 2 angioplasties in last 12 months and they didn't affect my heart rate a bit.

[Goodgal]

jill--pick up a book by Dr Jophn Lee or visit the site www.sandracabot.com..Hormones definitely do affect heart palpatations , especially if there are imbalances in your endocrine system. Homones can create huge adrenaline surges, and anxiety,lack of estrogen and/or progersterone can cause muscle spasms, change in BP etc etc. Dont dispel any of these possibilities if they cant find a reason for your heart probs-I mean-obviously for all the people who have diagnosed problems, AND if you are male, this is of no use. I write every episode in my journal and over the weeks I am more and more convinced that my heart palpatations are from hormone surges, mainly adrenaline--i have insisted on hormone tests and was told my estrogen level was 100 which was "normal"-further investigations showed it was NOT normal and after a lot of badgering and investigation I am now getting a hormone study and treatment..NAtural hormones---NOT synthetic ones, like natural progesterone creams--Not wildyam extracts and natural oestrogen--not synthetic made of mares urine!! (very important as synthetic hormones can actually CAUSE more problems)And I have also been testing myself rearding food alleries and have been discovering a full on allery to wheat and yeast--as soon as i eat bread, cereal etc my stomach goes crazy for a day or more until it is illiminates and the gas it creates causes strange palpatations depending on position and whether i am standing or lying down, and sometimes it even thows my heart ofbeat in a string of about 10 betas at a time( LAST night --it was scary. i ate toast for breakfast on purpose)Maybe you could try to see a possibilty of the cause in your diet??Its all worth a try.

[jjill]

I am confused!  I read by a Dr. on this forum that hormones do not effect PVC/PAC's!  I have always thought they must.  I went off the pill recently, at the same time as all this stress, so now I wonder if I should go on again??? I KNOW that my progesterone is lower than normal-- which was one reason I went on the pill to begin with.  Do you ever think that the FR's discount any "female" correlation?  NOw I wonder if I have them because of a combo of stress and the hormone fluctuations.  It's worth a call the my Dr.  thanks for the st.John's advice. Aren't these just a pain???

[Goodgal]

jill,be careful mixing St Johns Wort with any drugs you may be on--it may be a herbal medicine, but it is quite potent and can cause serious side effects if taken with the wrong combination,or even for some conditions. Go to a naturapath or ask your doc. If its ok for you to use it it can be pretty damn good. I take it 3 times a day, because I refuse to take anti anxiety tablets. The other things my naturapath put me on also worked pretty good--the only trouble is it takes a few days to kick in.It's a Bio-mineral formula with calcium phosphate, Magnesium,Potaaium, Zinc,Manganese, Chromium,Molybdenum and Silicon-specifically for palpatations.that combined with the trial and error food allergy self-test, and the progesterone cream(hormones have HEAPS to do with female palpatations)and Im keeping the heart fluuterproblems in control--its just finding the damn reason for the rest of the troubles and how it all connects thats fazing me at the moment.But I'll get there.

[jjill]

thanks so much!  I have not been on this forum comment place before.  You were so right about it al doyle.  I do not want to divorce but a move to the south seas would be great!! ha ha  I will ask my dr. about inderol.  I had not even thought of a different drug or the idea that I may need a high dose for my body.  have you used st.john's wort?  goodgal, would you rec. I try this before an anti-anxiety medication?  have either of you taken this and a beta blocker at the same time?  My friend told me yesterday that if I am already taking a heart med to manage the PVC's then what is the difference if I take a different drug? I am still taking meds to cope with this. thanks again I really appreciate your insight. Jill

[jjill]

I am interested about the anxiety idea....I have always had some PVC/PAC's  but lately they are driving me crazy-- all the tests say I am "normal" and they are benign.  I am on an increased dose (50 mg now) of atenolol and slowly, it is not working anymore.  I have a TON of stresses right now and will for the next 6-9 months while we move, change jobs, schools, etc.  My fam prac Dr. has never  mentioned/suggested anxiety or panic meds. I know I am high strung now with all that is changing in our lives. Any insight?  I have ambien when they are so bad I can't sleep, but that is just a short acting sleeping med.  I am afraid to go on a anti-anxiety drug... scared about the side effects. It causes me to have anxiety thinking about it!!  However, I really could relate to what was said earlier about what we think can be an adrenaline trigger and cause them. I am so glad to have this forum.  thanks for any insight anyone...

[Mommyplus6]

What is your best advice to one who gets anxiety after exercise?
I can exercise with no problems but sometimes I get attacks right after exercise..its like my heart rate drops fairly quick but then I get a trigger and then boom I am in anxiety..
I have been very careful not to overdo it but it effects me..

[AmosDoyle]

I read your post with interest.  You are not alone in your reluctance to take tranquilizers or other anti-anxiety medications.  Even though many people with anxiety may be miserable with many uncomfortable symptoms caused by stress, they often resist taking a medication that might help them. They fear becomming addicted to the drug or more importantly they hate admitting that they have failed to cure themselves of anxiety without medications.  You are caught between a rock and a hard place because you readily recognize that stress is playing a big-time role in your life right now and will play a big role in the future, but you like to think that you should be able to cure yourself of anxiety related symptoms without medications.  You know that some people say that they have found relief in medication but you think that you are different.  You are afraid!  You should be able to do it without drugs.  Right?  Well, maybe.

There are some non-drug things you CAN do which may reduce the negative symptoms of stress.  Most of them take time to be effective and much consistent effort to make them work.  Regular gentle repetitive exercises like walking for an hour or so a day helps some people to relax.  Swimming is good.  Daily meditation or prayer also may be effective as are yoga exercises.  There are reports that hypnosis is effective in removing the symptoms of stress and if you are so inclined, regression to so-called past lives may be effective.  More intensive things include psychoanalysis, biofeedback and cognitive behavioral therapy.  A more drastic approach might include quitting a stressful job, getting a divorce or running off to the south seas.  You probably already know all of these things.

Well, I guess that I have tried most of them myself except running off to the south seas.  All of the above things have helped me somewhat to relieve my stress and anxiety, but sad to say, here I am after a lifetime of trying various remedies, still with a few residual symptoms of stress including PVCs and PACs.

I don't know what really causes my palpitations. There are many theories, but I do know that if I didn't have access to medications throughout my life I probably would be a basket case by now.  First of all, beta blockers have helped my PVCs and PACs.  I have tried Atenolol, Toprol XL and Inderal.  Most important is correct dosage.  Not everyone needs the same dose.  Some people need a much higher dose of beta blockers to get relief of palpitations because their nervous tone is so much higher.  I like Inderal best because it affects my whole nervous system, not just the nerves of my heart.  I think that Inderal is very safe and has been used for many years for hypertension, migraine headaches and for performance anxiety as well as arrthythmias.  I like it and I feel comfortable with it.  I am not afraid to take it.  And THAT is perhaps the most important thing with the effectiveness of any medication.  If you fear the medication it will be less likely to help you than if you think positively about it.  There is much truth to the placebo effect and if one thinks that something will help then maybe it will.  Conversely, if you are afraid of a medication or think that it will not help, then perhaps it will be less likely to help and may even cause unwanted side effects due primarily to fear generating thoughts, not the medication itself.

Probably many people are reluctant to take anti-anxiety medications or tranquilizers but there are newer ones now that are not as addicting as benzodiazapines.  Some of the antidepressants like the SSRI's have anti-anxiety properties.  Some are stimulating however so it is important to have a knowledgeable physician, preferably a psychiatrist prescribe an SSRI for anxiety.  Come people take an SSRI and become more anxious so it is important to work with your physician until you find the one that works best for you.  SSRI's do sometimes have some minor withdrawl symptoms but usually they are mild and can be tolerated.  In contrast benzodiazapines, like Xanax, have serious withdrawal and rebound effects if stopped abruptly and even when tapered off slowly, the withdrawal symptoms can be uncomfortable.

I am not afraid to take Xanax because it provides help with anxiety when I really need it.  I just don't take it regularly, that is, every day.  I only take it when I don't have time or energy to try all of those other things.  I have experienced the withdrawal effects of Xanax and I surely don't want to do that again.  But with due caution and common sense, a so-called tranquilizer like Xanax can be life saving.

[Goodgal]

Thank you for posting the url for the stomach info. I had been researching this area for a while and had suggested this possibility to my Doc on numerous occasions, only to be met with a definite shake of the head and a 'not possible"!--Its great to see ones theory written in black and white AND to be able to rub my docs face in it. (YES anger management is probably my better option at the moment--haha, only kidding)

"When the stomach is popped up it has a tendency to lay up against the heart causing it to lose rhythm and beat irregularly. This situation is the great mimic because it can express symptoms anywhere there is blood"

The comment received here from the site docs and you people has given me more of an idea of what the problem might be then 9 months of visiting doctors who  are more interested in treatin easy problems like common colds and bleeding noses.Some of us are suffering from a lot of anxiety,some of us just want to find out where the problem lies without being labelled panic disorders or hysterical menopausal women(if you are female and in that age group) and yes the docs may be right in assuming we are not all going to drop dead tomorrow, but that still does not mean the majority of us should be fobbed off as hypochondriacs and told to swallow any kind of rotten pill to make us go away more then anything.A human being basically knows when there is a problem--after all--it is our body and we can feel if there is a change or if there is something that doesnt feel quite right.Too often the mistakes made by the medical profession are kept quiet and hidden-in my circle alone i have had a woman with leukemia misdiagnosed, Ms and several cancers misdiagnosed and umpteen heart probs totally screwed up.DOCS are only human--they make plenty of mistakes.Its up to you and me to find out as much as we can without letting it make us go crazy, and then looking at every finding objectively. Food cant cause problems???? B$##@@#t

In the past 2 weeks i have given up eating wheat and grains--as a test and guess what--no palpatations at all, the bloating is minimised and the choking feeling hasnt returned.I am taking Magnesium for muscle cramping(fantastic) St Johns Wort for any anxiety(PLEASE TRY THIS- it should be the first thing you try for anxiety problems)) and Omega fishoil as a good all over antioxident.Vitamin B12 and a standard B and some co enzyme Q10--also take some swedish bitters to clean the liver. I am using natural transdermal progestrone cream to fix any hormonal problems and having a good remedial massage once a week to fix any possible referred pain from back and neck problems.It is all truly working-unbelievable. Now all i need to do is make sure i have no autoimmune problems as suggested by the good doc on this site and Im on my way to feeling better! Good Luck to you all!

[Kevin Bozzi]

AMOS, Thank you so much for your contributions...you really seem to have covered all areas and have made me feel sooo much better!!  You have opened my eyes to a wide spectrum of possibilities that may be the cause of my PVC's and helped me realize that in all probibility, my PVC's are caused by anxiety.

[arthur]

Slouching is not necessarily the only pro-PAC posture...this appears to vary with the individual.  The general trends I have seen in commentaries herein, elsewhere, and in myself, and in discussions with EPs, are that PACs which stem from foci are apt to show up under certain postures, typically postures wherein the result of that posture is a little pressure against the area where the foci live.  As most (not all) foci live in the back of the heart where the pulmonary veins are attached, PACs can even show up in a specific part of the breathing cycle (again, typically on the intake, when the lungs fill up and press against the PVs).  As this whole thing varies between individuals, one can only figure that some postures will bring on PACs more often than others.  The reverse logic would be that, if you are noticing posture-driven PACs, then it's likely foci are responsible (at least in my case it's true).  I need to put the conditional phrase in here, since this web site is quite sensitive to folks making statements which sound like fact and not opinion, which, in fact, they are.

In my case, most PACs disappear when I am prone, and on my side. Lying on my back, is not quite as effective (probably due to the pressure on the PVs).  Lying on my stomach seems to be better.
Slouching seems to force the abdomen up into the cardiac region.

As far as my history is concerned...I am an avid athlete, and got really freaked out when I got PAF, and subsequently, loads of PACs.  After going to 4 cardios, I was referred to an excellent EP who diagnosed the situation as PV foci generated PACs and PAF.
An rf ablation was conducted with no complications in the summer of 2000.  No repeat PAF since.  Some PACs remain since the EP was  careful not to ablate anymore tissue than necessary in order to minimize risks.  Since the ablation, I have continued to play competitive sports and PACs have diminished somewhat.

To those who exercise, if all else is fine with your heart, then PACs/PVCs generally are of no concern.  In my case, they show up a little at the beginning of exercise, disappear during exercise (unless I suddenly push myself...adrenaline is a great spark), and sometimes show up for a short time directly after strong exercise (leftover adrenaline), and they stay away for hours after exercising.

[norge]

Very interesting to read your story and share your knowledge of ectopic beats, Arthur

Just wanted to share with everybody that I have it exactly the same way as you when exercising. I bike every day, some days for 30-40 miles so I do pretty hard cardiovascular workouts. I also do some jogging and a little weights. When doing a long bike ride, I too often have some PVC's or PAC's in the beginning, then they go away. And as you say, if I push myself very hard, I can get some. After exercise they often return, but go fairly quickly away, IF I DO NOT CONCERN MYSELF ABOUT IT. Previously as I have said, the extra beats made me exercise much less because I became very afraid. My doctors, and they have been many, have all said to me that as long as my heart has no structural defects and I don't feel like passing out or get chest pain I do not have to worry. They can't all be wrong!
I can also add as comfort that I was told by one of my doctors that several of the world-class athletes in my country have PVC's and they too experience spikes in the PVC frequency after having competed.

I have also started to appreciate what one doctor said to me some time ago. "The important thing is to understand that these things cannot harm you. After all, you have more heartbeats than those not having PVC's so tell me how that can make your heart stop" I guess it makes sense!

I encourage everybody with benign PVS's and PAC's to exercise vigorously. Try not to let them stop you, drink plenty of fluids and remember to add electrolytes if exercising long and hard. If you can do this your heart get stronger, you feel better physically AND mentally, and importantly you see that your heart works pretty well after all.

[dodgybeats]

My cardiologist believes strongly that there is relationship between arrythmias and progesterone, my pacs/pvcs and tachy are always worse the week before my period when the progesterone levels are high.  I have been on the combined contraceptive pill for 6 months now and must admit that my arrythmias have been better for it, perhaps my hormone levels were a bit skew and the pill has evened them out.

[kat1929]

Hey Arthur:  

What do you mean by slouching being a pro-PAC position?  Also, do you know why people cough when they feel PVCs?  I do this sometimes and I've read that other people do it as well?  Should I slow down if I'm exercising and I get PVCs?  thanks!

[Mommyplus6]

Would you be interested in elaborating more information to me...?
I would love to hear more...

[giga72]

I can relate to what everyone is saying, calming some of my fears.  I am a 30 year old woman with recently diagnosed pvc's.
No caffeine,nicotene or stress that i know of. I was wondering if anyone knows of a relation to pvc's and depo provera (progesterone). I heard that high levels of progesterone can cause pvc's