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Heart Disease (Expert Forum)
New Feelings and PVCs
This forum is for questions and support regarding heart issues such as: Angina, Angioplasty, Arrhythmia, Bypass Surgery, Cardiomyopathy, Coronary Artery Disease, Defibrillator, Heart Attack, Heart Disease, High Blood Pressure, Mitral Valve Prolapse, Pacemaker, PAD, Stenosis, Stress Tests.
New Feelings and PVCs
by KCDM, Sep 25, 2006 12:00AM
Hi Doctor,
I have had PVC's PAC's for 5 yrs now and only the past month have developed new symptoms that concern me.I have a good echo, stress test, bl.work and holter(except for pvcs pacs and tachycardia).I woke up three mornings with a very irregular heart rate and beat, many palps, weakness and just a sick feeling.My pulse felt weak and it seemed to be totally irregular,later however(1hour)I started returning to normal. This has happened 3 times in the morning.I also have been having a quick pressure in my chest on walking,what feels like possibly mulitple pvcs in a row.I am fearful that something is really wrong with my heart.I went to the ER and while lying down had no symptoms, ekg was great the doc said,he dissmissed me as anxious and didnt even want a holter to see if I was having multiple pvcs. My pvcs feel really forceful lately as if my heart squeezes really hard and fast with the pvc.I feel terrible,no doc will think of testing me and dissmisses me.I know I worry,but it's these new feelings doing it to me.I am 23yrs old,female and I eat well and try to exercise(I am a healthy weight).Should these new feelings worry me?What does this all sound like to you?Is this common?Can I exercise even with the strange pressure/pvcs I am getting?I have chest pain often and the side of my neck and in my shoulder often too, like a knife stuck in it, concerned?I get dizzy almost every second day,could it be heart related?when i get the palps i feel sob and dizzy for a few moments,is that normal?I get spurts of tiredness that is very overwhelming. Please answer my q's and thanks
I have had PVC's PAC's for 5 yrs now and only the past month have developed new symptoms that concern me.I have a good echo, stress test, bl.work and holter(except for pvcs pacs and tachycardia).I woke up three mornings with a very irregular heart rate and beat, many palps, weakness and just a sick feeling.My pulse felt weak and it seemed to be totally irregular,later however(1hour)I started returning to normal. This has happened 3 times in the morning.I also have been having a quick pressure in my chest on walking,what feels like possibly mulitple pvcs in a row.I am fearful that something is really wrong with my heart.I went to the ER and while lying down had no symptoms, ekg was great the doc said,he dissmissed me as anxious and didnt even want a holter to see if I was having multiple pvcs. My pvcs feel really forceful lately as if my heart squeezes really hard and fast with the pvc.I feel terrible,no doc will think of testing me and dissmisses me.I know I worry,but it's these new feelings doing it to me.I am 23yrs old,female and I eat well and try to exercise(I am a healthy weight).Should these new feelings worry me?What does this all sound like to you?Is this common?Can I exercise even with the strange pressure/pvcs I am getting?I have chest pain often and the side of my neck and in my shoulder often too, like a knife stuck in it, concerned?I get dizzy almost every second day,could it be heart related?when i get the palps i feel sob and dizzy for a few moments,is that normal?I get spurts of tiredness that is very overwhelming. Please answer my q's and thanks
Doctor's Answer
by CCF-M.D.-MJM, Sep 26, 2006 12:00AM
Hello,
Should these new feelings worry me? What does this all sound like to you? Is this common?
We see people with similar concerns ever day. We tell patients that if you have a structurally normal heart, normal echo, ekg and sometimes stress test if indicated, that there is no health concern. I understand that you have symptoms and in some people the symptoms affect your quality of life. In those situations, we would consider medications (propafenone or flecainide) or even an ablation. We do not rush into these procedures and medications because they can have significant side effects or adverse events.
Can I exercise even with the strange pressure/pvcs I am getting?
I can't really answer this one without seeing your studies. Assuming everything is as stated by your physicians -- normal studies, exercise is not a problem.
I have chest pain often and the side of my neck and in my shoulder often too, like a knife stuck in it, concerned?
This does not sound like cardiac pain.
I get dizzy almost every second day,could it be heart related?
If you have a normal heart rhythm while having the symptoms, it is not related.
when i get the palps i feel sob and dizzy for a few moments,is that normal?
Yes. There is not questions that PVCs can cause shortness of breath, dizziness, lightheadedness and in some people that post ont his forum, pain, although I have never met a patient that describes their PVC as painful.
I hope this helps. Thanks for posting.
Should these new feelings worry me? What does this all sound like to you? Is this common?
We see people with similar concerns ever day. We tell patients that if you have a structurally normal heart, normal echo, ekg and sometimes stress test if indicated, that there is no health concern. I understand that you have symptoms and in some people the symptoms affect your quality of life. In those situations, we would consider medications (propafenone or flecainide) or even an ablation. We do not rush into these procedures and medications because they can have significant side effects or adverse events.
Can I exercise even with the strange pressure/pvcs I am getting?
I can't really answer this one without seeing your studies. Assuming everything is as stated by your physicians -- normal studies, exercise is not a problem.
I have chest pain often and the side of my neck and in my shoulder often too, like a knife stuck in it, concerned?
This does not sound like cardiac pain.
I get dizzy almost every second day,could it be heart related?
If you have a normal heart rhythm while having the symptoms, it is not related.
when i get the palps i feel sob and dizzy for a few moments,is that normal?
Yes. There is not questions that PVCs can cause shortness of breath, dizziness, lightheadedness and in some people that post ont his forum, pain, although I have never met a patient that describes their PVC as painful.
I hope this helps. Thanks for posting.
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I have had a lot of experience with Inderal and find it quite helpful. YMMV.
Feel better soon.
I am suprised that the ER doctor refused to do any tests, even if you've already had tests done previously. The heart is such an important organ, as I know I don't need to really state, that it doesn't seem like a good idea to refuse to do tests on a patient complaining of new palpitations and symptoms that weren't previously experienced. I suffer from anxiety myself and know how bad this can be: it's making it hard for me to live my life.
I had a question to anyone on here that might have an answer: I experience palpitations that usually don't feel a skipped beat followed by a strong beat, as many here have described. The other day I was at my computer and experienced out of nowhere, and intense adrenaline rush feeling that made my hair stand on end, and a flip flopping in my chest that almost felt like being on a rollercoaster. I took my pulse and felt nothing for a few seconds, and then my heart started beating normally again. This has happened to me once before this bad, about a year ago. It is absolutely terrifying.
I had an event monitor (1 month monitor) and picked this up last time it happened. The tech reading the recording said it was irregular but not dangerous. My primary care said it looked like a few extra beats in a row. I was never asked to come in by the cardiologist, but since having another one this bad, I'm insisting on going.
KCDM, have you experienced anything like this? I feel when this happens that I'm going to die for sure, even though my Primary care says I'm ok. Thanks guys, and good luck to all who are suffering from these things.
Aha! I get something very like this. For me, is a combo of arrhythmia and panic attack, and the emotional wallop and the physical sensations occur seem to occur simultaneously, so close together so that I cannot tell which is chicken and which is egg.
In my case, it always heralds a bout of this kind of thing that may go on for months if unattended. The first few times it happened, I went to the ER, of course, but the EKGs and bloodwork were always unremarkable. After a while, I became aware that physically, I could function just fine (apart from sensations of faintness,etc.), and that my emotional response was the larger problem. So, having been tested and assured that my ticker was basically OK (all things considered--family and personal history, tests for pheochromocytoma, and so on), I took myself to a good shrink, and got put on a wee dose of zoloft, after trying various other SSRIs.
As time has gone by, I have learned that these attacks come at wide intervals, months or years apart, and are seasonal, mostly fall or spring phenomena. The judicious and rather brief use of drugs shortens the whole episode considerably, when it occurs.
Glad to see that someone else can relate to the sensation. I get the impression from my test results that it is a run of beats, three I think. As I'm sure you know it's incredibly scary and uncomfortable. I feel like I'm in a state of suspended animation where I'm waiting for my heart to resume normal beating.
I'm going to see the cardiologist in early October, and I cannot wait to get some answers, and hopefully be reassured. I'm only 25 years old and people my age aren't "supposed" to get these, but it seems from what I've been reading on this forum and elsewhere, that it's not super rare like some (including myself) previously thought.
I may try what some have suggested and go on a low dose of a beta blocker to see if that at least reduces them or decreases the terrible sensation because these things suck, in plain English. :(
I hope I do not have multiple palps in a row, that scares me a bit. Any other experiences would be appreciated!
If your heart study comes out fine and you are wondering whether you have "anxiety".... it is just amazing how much like anxiety a deficiency in Magnesium is. I've been taking Mg for about three weeks now, and it is amazing how much it has helped with the AF AND how calm what a much improved sense of well being I have. Perhaps you would find this of value?
If you want to know what will decrease (or increase your palps)
These web sites are for you:
http://magnesiumresearchlab.com/Mg-and-Potassium-in-Lone-Atrial-Fibrillation-9-11-03.htm
http://mdheal.org/magnesiu1.htm
These can be pretty technical, but if you care about your heart and health you will plow through. Or some of the explaination can be found if you look at my other posts at this web site.
I hope to ask the MD's here on this forum to comment on these papers, unfortunately so far I have not been able to post a question to them (the board is always filled).
There is much more on Mg on the web if you do some searching. If this does not help many of the people here, I would be very surprised. Ideally, work with your doctor on this.. however, they probably won't believe it could help. Just ask them how to do it safely AND DO IT ANYWAY. Find an acidic form of Mg - glycinate, orotate. I've been using Mg Oxide, and it works ok, but this is the least absorbable. I plan to switch.
Good luck,
CMiller
I appreciate the info on Magnesium. What about Magnesium Chelate?? My Chiro. gave me a Ca/Mg supplement and the Mg is in the form of Chelate. Would appreciate your response. Thank you..
From what i have read, Magnesium Glycinate and Magnesium Citrate are among the most absorbable. Mag Oxide... hard to absorb. Mg aspartate, and Mg glutamate are absolute no nos for people with palps...
Different people have different opinions whether Mg shoudl be taken with Calcium or not for restoration of Mg. My doctors have been 0 help to me on this so far. some suggest 2:1 calcium to Mg is best, this can be complicated to figure out because different forms of Mg/Ca contain different amounts of Mg or Ca. You may need a pharmacist to help you figure it out. Ask for the amount of elemental Magnesium or Calcium in the supplement.. that is the number that really tells you how much you have, not the total number of millegrams of the pill. I hope to get a RBC magnesium this Tuesday at the Doc's office.
It's important to do a lot of other stuff as well to keep yourself in good shape with the palp thing... lots more suggestions at other posts I've made at this site.
Good luck,
after biking today... within a few hours I could REALLY feel the symptoms coming on.... like I was going to have palps at any moment. I knew I was having some challenges with Mg and K and holding on to them. Other symptoms are tingling in arms and legs, slight dizzy disorientation. pre palp pressure. So I took a little K and some Mg... and then it wasn't moving to fast.... so I took some taurine and enzymes (bromelain). you can search the net to find out the benefits of bromelain)... but the power of taurine... wow, I feel better already and I think I'm going to be ok tonite. what a revelation. Taurine moves magnesium and K into the cells. Within 30/40/60? min started feeling myself again... tingling has dropped 90%. wow. And here is some great stuff on Taurine.
http://www.mgwater.com/inmgdef.shtml#researchers
and more posted here on this web.
one step at a time. I will keep you posted.
In all cases IDEALLY you should work with your doctor. Please realize that most doctors do not realize the following:
Plasma levels of K can be a poor indicator of the level of potassium in your CELLS. Only a small portion of K is in your plasma... most is in the cells. You can get gradients between the cells and the plasma that make it difficult for your "pumping system" to pump more K into the cells where you need it. Search the literature on Medline and you will come up with a number of studies that support what I am saying. Few Physicians test for K in cells, which is a big mistake in my opinion.
The second point on K is that, while it can be a challenge if injected into your blood stream (as in they use this to stop the heart in some states are part of a death sentence), most people with normal kidneys will excrete extra K. In a study of 4000 pts on K supplmentation (high blood pressure), side effects manifested in less than 175 and the death rate was .14%. Tiny percent of side effects, and probably less than any med your doctor is likely to try to give you - beta blockers, Ca channel blockers, antianxiety meds etc. So while it is common in the medical practice to talk about potassium overdose, it is highly unlikely in people with normal kidneys. There is a study that shows Mg and K can help reduce arrythmias in pts with normal plasma levels of both. In ER my plasma K was 3.4 and my heart rhythm did not go normal until it was 4.4. It is critical to note that heart rhythm undoubtedly depends on the balance of the major ions - Ca, Mg, Na, K along with other minerals both within cells, in plasma, and in interstitial spaces (between cells). Frankly, a review of the literature will tell you that we do not understand this relationship very well and it is "easier" to give a beta blocker, unfortunately, this will never address the underlying cause of the arrythmia... it only masks the symptoms. Chances are good a natropathic doctor on nutritionist who understands the role of Mg and K in nutrition and cardiac health will help you find a way to try these supplements safely. Ideally these ions should be obtained through food; however, there is some indication that once intracellular levels drop to a certain point, the capacity to absorb these ions through the gut is diminished, and this not enough will be derived from food. further, because of the addition of salt to our diet which is high in sodium, most people could probably benefit significantly from small amounts of potassium supplementation. The data does not support scaring people from considering this as an option to regain their health.
Cmiller
i'm glad to see that i am not the only one this happens to, unfortunately. the more professionals i talk to that tell me everything is ok, the more frustrating it is. i still get mild attacks that prevent me from falling asleep 2-3/week.
so here is where i stand. if it something we all seem to experience, and it is not physically harmful, there has to be a way to curb it and control it. my 55 year old uncle told me he went through the same thing in his 20's and doc's found nothing. he swears to me that he began a regular habit of taking coconut oil everday that helped the "attacks" almost go away completely. i am about to research to see if this works, why not?
but if anyone has any other success stories on how to control these "safe" palpitations, let us all know please.