PACs and PVCs are fatal and life threatning !!

[gaaz]

now every thing is showing obviuos aspect ..
would u tell me why all Drs are just not saying the truth ..
they just say (ohh PACs are very common .. dont worry aboout them .. just try to live with them .. dont even worry if  have dosens of them .. it is just some thing that would never harm u )
and now .. i have known that .. PACs can trigger atrial fibrillation.. and atrial fibrilllation can got u a blod clot which can lodge in ur retinal artery making u permanent blind .. or in ur brain and making u a cadiver ..
other thing , as PACs trigger atrial fibrillation .. so PVCs can trigger ventricular fibrillation which means u are dead person ..
so why shouldnt i be frightened from those PAC and PVC s ?!!!

[CCF-M.D.-MJM]

Hello gaaz,

Wow, that is quite a statement.  After just having watched "A Few Good Men," I am tempted to respond to your first statement:
Would u tell me why all Drs are just not saying the truth ..

with....

"Because you can't handle the truth" -- but I am afraid people might not think it is too funny.


We try to be very candid on this website to answer question -- there is no secondary gain for us not to tell the truth.

It is true that the PACs/PVCs can initiate atrial tachycardia, atrial fibrillation, atrial flutter, AVNRT, ventricular tachycardia, ventricular fibrillation, etc.  We tell you that PAC/PVCs are benign because the over whelming majority of people that have PACs/PVCs, do not have any of the above arrhythmias. If we do a holter on virtually anyone, they will have PACs/PVCs and the incidence of arrhythmias in the general population is very low -- with the possible exception of atrial fibrillation in elderly patients.

Just because you have a common problem (PACs/PVCs), it does not mean that you are going to develop a less common problem (atrial fibrillation) and have the worst known complications from it.
Atrial fibrillation is not a benign condition and requires appropriate risk stratification and treatment-- but you if you only have PACs, I would advise you not to worry about problems that you don't already have.

The incidence of sudden cardiac death in the US is about 300,000 cases per year and the US population is over 300,000,000.  Most cases of SCD are related to coronary artery disease.  Extremely rare cases of PVCs will cause ventricular fibrillation -- these are all case reports or case series.  I cannot over emphasize that these are EXTREMELY rare cases.  I would also like to caution you about reading too much information.  Trust me when I say that medicine is a very complicated field and you have to understand a lot about the field to truly understand the issues.  Many people scare themselves to death reading about complications, when their risks of having the complications is very low, sometimes even close to zero.

I am sorry that you are scared of the PVCs/PACs, but they are not life threatening.  If you develop atrial fibrillation, we would recommend additional treatments and if you had VF from a PVC, we would certainly recommend more aggressive measures.  The standard of care for PACs/PVCs is a beta blocker therapy for symptoms and reserving invasive procedures for extremely symptomatic people with a high likelihood of cure.

If you feel you cannot trust your doctor, you should seek a second opinion.  If you do not trust all doctors, I am not sure what to tell you for that.

I hate to reuse quotes, but this is one of my favorites:

When I look back on all these worries, I remember the story of the old man who said on his deathbed that he had had a lot of trouble in his life, most of which had never happened.
Winston Churchill

[tickertock]

The heart is a complex organ and has back up modes , it just doesn't fail or go into a deadly rhythm that easy, increased or complex PVC activity can be a harbinger of more serious ventricular arrhythmias in persons with certain "cardiac" syndromes, coronary heart disease or other significant structural abnormalities,  a scar , or some other reentry circuit in the ventricle is usually needed to support the heart going into such a deadly rhythm. Remember PVCs can trigger a-fib also. Be careful what you read on the net or otherwise, most of it does not apply to ordinary individual that suffers with PVCs.Please note I'm not a medical doctor, but this has been explained to me by some the best EPs and cardiologist in the medical field.

[CollegeGirl143]

its not that simple. You cannot jsut assume because of pac can trigger AFIB that it can trigger VFIB. Im gonna have to strongly suggest to you that you dont ever post a headline like that again, as you probably scared the living daylights out of some of the patients here.You are not a physician and have no place telling people things like htat. Physicians have ways to counteract the bloodclots you can get from afib. pvc and afib are not intertwined, one can aggrivate the other, just like caffeine or sugar can, and these are not fatal either. There are many MANY people here trying to get a question into this forum with serious medical questions, please keep this in mind next time you try to post.

[arthur]

A question is a question...in this case, from a frightened individual with concerns regarding arrhythmias.  Sounds legitimate to me.
-Arthur

[momto3girls]

Hi There,

It's obvious you're frightened and upset.  I too have pac's and pvc's and also tachycardia issues.  They come on whenever they want, even when exercising.  I have been to 4 reputable cardiologists and an EP doctor.  They all look at my monitoring strips, echos, stress tests, nuclear stress tests and cardiac CT and say the same thing...these heart skips are merely a nuisance when your heart is structurally normal.  It's just like tickertock said...be careful what you read on the internet.  A lot of those studies/articles have a controlled study group with previous cardiac issues.  I freaked myself out months ago when I read a study that showed something concerning tachycardia/ventricular tachycardia and then I read the section that clearly said these patients had all had previous heart attacks!  Kind of an important bit of information huh?  Coronary artery disease, previous heart attacks or scars can are all reasons why pac's and pvc's would seem more ominous.

I'm sure the forum doctor will assure you with what many of us all here have been told by our own doctors too.  It's hard to accept that these weird sensations aren't a precursor to something horrible.  I completely understand your frustration.  I used to think I was the one case where pac's and pvc's meant certain death!  The good news is that there are many, many people out there that have had these heart skips for 20-30 years and they're still alive and kicking.  Keeping your fears at bay is a hard lesson to learn but definitely needs to dealt with, I know this first hand.  Know that you're in good company.  Best wishes (:

[CollegeGirl143]

sorry you feel that way arthur, personally i saw one question that has been answered at least 5 times on this page alone, and a large rant that would have been much more appropriate some place else. Every individual has the right to ask questions about their health, but i do infact,strongly urge people with no medical backround not to make assumptions in a public forum filled with suffering people, that are untrue or lack explanation, and can be very scary :) Its much better to post concerns in the form of questions than a presumed fact. For future reference, rather than saying "pvc's are deadly because they can cause afib which can cause bloodclots" Ask a question about how a physician manages this risk.. Instead of assuming because a pvc can lead to afib, it can also lead to vfib, ask that question, and find out before you state that as fact. it is a MUCH more contructive way of handling your fears.

[CollegeGirl143]

sorry, meant to ad to my last post.. Questions are legitament. Accusing all physicians of being liars is not. I find that offensive.

[tickertock]

Information out there is frightening and can be misleading and many many are confused, while others have the ability not to lose control or get scared, others are not so easily persuaded and are crippled by fear. What means so much to someone, means nothing to others, not only with medical issues but the more common and sometime complex issues that life brings.

[CollegeGirl143]

I completely agree, and you are absolutely correct in saying thaqt, but i personally do not believe that being afraid allows a person to act in any demenior they please. I found the misrepresntation of information alarming, and the accusation and mocking of physicians very offensive.

[gaaz]

first of all ..iam not frightening any one .. and if there is some one to be frightened it will be ME .. cause iam a PACs sufferer
number 2 , before my mispresentation (as u assumed) there was a (Q) litter which means iam asking and iam not telling fact .. so i dont have to use a question structure in my sentence as (can PAcs .. etc etc ... ?!! )
i mean it known that iam asking ..
number three .. iam a user .. and i just was scrabbing such issue to get a answer .. real answer from the Drs here .. and i dont wanna them just to make me feel better .. or reduce my anxiety .. i jut need the truth ..
thats it .. iam sorry to make u guys feel bad .. but iam one of u .. and if those PAcs or PVCs are increasing our risk of having any cardiovascular problems we should know it .. not just persuading our selves that we are just normal like other ppl ..
thank u all .. waiting for Dr reply ..

[finetilthree]

I am sorry that you are suffering from such intense anxiety.  May I ask how many palps you are suffering from daily?  Please try to hang in there.

[oneil420]

Alright so im not going to say your comments are not legit although they do appear to be a litle mislead. So lets start by saying that people can and do go into afib and vfib without pacs/pvcs(althoug extremely rare) as the heart is an amazing organ, then again people get struck by lighting, hit by cars and choke on food. MAybe we shouldnt drive? Maybe we shouldnt eat? Death is the price we pay for life, it is the one thing we all have in common(black,white,brown,yellow,catholic,muslim, hebrew etc) Should i be worried that an astoroid can hit the earth at any minute? Or maybe i shouldnt go out my door conidering in my city(philadelphia, pa) there has been over 450 homicides by guns in 06 and over 3000 injured, i mean we could logically sit here all day and talk about that **** that could , should and would happen but the facts are the average life expectency of a american is over 76 y/o. Some children never take there first breath and hospitals are clogged with people who are sick and dying and although yes you could die and dont get me wrong i to have anxiety attacks over my pvcs the TRUTH IS TODAY WE ARE ALL STILL ALIVE and that should be enough for all of us because tens of thousands didnt wake up this morning, i know im going to a funeral tommorow! ONce again im not saying that pacs/pvcs are 100% harmless im saying nothing is! Life is what is is and if you continue to worry about death you will lose your life without being dead. If you are really that worried get help, bottom line we make the decisions its our bodies and its up to us to maintain them not the dr. I get pvcs daily and live my life 100% normal, i dont restrict myself at all and yes maybe i will go into vfib and die but atleast i know i lived. So please dont fear death embrace life.
"its better to die once then fear death a thousand times" julias cesare

[CollegeGirl143]

Gaz, i can feel how scared you are, and im sorry that you have yet to be able to find solice in all this, but you have to understand, when you make statements like that, its scary to EVERY pvc sufferer who is in the same place you are, not just you.. Its also never appropriate to call the people who are trying to help you liars. Just because these things are scary, does not mean they will kill you. Its never good manners to insult physicians and then turn around and ask them for help. In the future, try and pose your statements as questions to avoid confusion..

If you research the archives of this forum, you will see the doctors of this very forum answer time and time again in a structurally normal heart, pvc's and pac's do not increase your cadriovascular risks. If you have had all the normal tests, and your doctor says you have no risk, its not an issue of persueding yourself that you are normal, its an issue of letting go of the control you want to have, and accepting that

Alot of people here are suffering just like you, and are trying very hard to accept these things wont kill them, and are trying to trust their doctors, and when someone comes along and tells them the opposite of what the doctor is telling them, its confusing and scary. Once again, to avoid this kind of thing, try not to insult people out of fear, your doctors arent lying to you, and instead of assuming things, ask a question. Theres NO shame in wanting to know the truth.

[arthur]

Hey...Happy New Year to you too.
How did your ablation go?  I caught a little on the alternate site, but haven't really followed up.  -Arthur

[BABlocker]

Gaaz,
I am also a fellow PAC and PVC suffer, am dependent on my pacemaker, which was implanted in August 2005 after my afib/aflutter could not be controlled with multiple ablations, cardioversions or drug therapy.

Often when I have many PACs, it will provoke aflutter or afib and I can feel every missed beat. Yes, it sucks and I feel poorly when this happens.

I used to be on Coumadin, but because the pacemaker has halted the escalating heart rates in length from going into multiple days long episodes, as was previously the case, my EP and Cardiologist have agreed to stop the Coumadin and have me take Aspirin 325mg/day to promote blood thinning to prevent life threatening blood clots from forming.

My heart is structurally normal with NO coronary artery disease and other risks such as high cholesterol and hypertension have been successfully treated with medical management. I do not fear having a stroke at this time, and I have PACs/PVCs on an almost daily basis, sometimes for hours at a time.

If your Drs are telling you that you have a normally structured heart with absense of true coronary artery disease, then these are benign arrythmias that may compromise the quality of your life but will not lessen the number of years you have to live.

Talk with someone about your level of anxiety so that you can get a handle on this, for your stress level may only worsen your feelings of well-being.

Good luck to you.

[sherma]

This i must say is a very frightening thread.  You must understand Gazz that as collegegirl and everyone else has said that by law the Doctors are not allowed to lie to you.  You must trust them.  There will many other people living with pac's and pvc's and also reading this thread - people who maybe trying to come to terms with their condition - and a post like this will only do more harm than good - for you also.  I can't fully comprehend what your point is - but you have to have faith.  read the archives, and maybe you will understand that we are all scared by these - and only with time will you come to accept them for what they are - in a normal heart totally benign.

[finetilthree]

this post scared the poop out of me! When I read the title, I thought he was really onto something! I thought he found out some "secret" that none of the rest of us knew about! Then I realized he is just a terrorized person.  What a poor soul.  Let's all pray for him to feel better real soon.

[sb786]

hi all,
sorry to just but in but i have a qs. I have just got my results for ANOTHER 24 hr holter and i was pleased that it showed only a small n.o of pvcs this time. I got a call from my doc he said it was normal and i decided to go in and get a copy of it for myself. when i came home i read on it that there was apparantley a PAUSE whilst i was sleeping and my heart rate at the time was 51 bpm. i am so SCARED at the moment what does that mean. i also seem to have some beats of sinus bradycardia whilst in deep sleep. I am so scared regarding the Pause. Surely if it was dangerous my cardio would have said something. i keep thinking perhaps he didnt even notice the bit where it says pause=1. Help!!

[tickertock]

Please bear in mind that I'm not a medical doctor and not qualified to give the correct answer to your question, but from my understanding simple sinus pauses are common and unless they are longer than 2.5 to 3 seconds , frequent and causing symtoms are considered benign and nothing to worry about.

To answer you questions posed to me a few threads down about aberrant beats, from what I gather any wide QRS complex on a holter tracing would be identified as an aberrant beat or a PVC, aberrant beats are usually SVT(PACs) that are conducted aberrantly to the ventricle during a certain cycle of the heartbeat, but unless they can clearly be identified as PACs with aberrancy, they would be considered PVCs until proven otherwise, regardless your must trust your doctor about what he says is normal regarding your test, if in doubt get a second opinion.Remember there is a very rare person whose heart over a 24 hour period would beat in a completely normal fashion.

[anacyde]

Okay, I think all of us have had anxious moments from our palpitations, but please consider this:

1. PACs are extremely common and only very rarely lead to anything else.  

2. If PACs do lead to something else, it's commonly supraventricular tachycardia, and that is also often benign and paroxysmal (intermittent).

3. If PACs did lead to atrial fibrillation, which often they DON'T, even that rhythm is highly responsive to treatment in many cases.

4. Even difficult cases of atrial fibrillation can still be managed as to prevent such issues as the ones you describe, such as blood clots.  Atrial fibrillation is one of the most common arrhythmias, so doctors have extensive experience in managing it.  If everyone with afib dropped over dead, we'd have a mighty small population.  And for that matter, if everyone with PACs, PVCs, paroxysmal benign ventricular tachycardia and so on all dropped dead...the human race would cease to exist rather quickly.  You'd probably be astonished to learn how many people have arrhythmias.

Now where PVCs and ventricular arrhythmias are concerned, consider this:

1. PVCs are typically only dangerous in hearts with ischemic or structural disease (i.e. people with known coronary artery disease or cardiomyopathies with low ejection fractions because both inhibit the heart's ability to to it's job effectively).  In the absence of other disease, PVCs are frequently nothing at all to concern yourself with.

2. As with PACs, even if PVCs broke down into a more concerning rhythm, it would probably still not be too serious, like a paroxysmal vtach, which some people have and don't even know about because it never causes a problem.

Now if you put yourself through this, the "end of living" for you won't be your heart quitting on you, but the fear consuming you to the point you become so fixated on mere existence that you no longer live the life you've got.

PACs are overwhelmingly benign.  Please try not to overthink what they mean, because in all likelihood they mean absolutely nothing and will do absolutely nothing to you.

I hope I don't sound condescending, but with this much stress it might be a good idea to see someone about stress and anxiety management.  It sounds like you enjoy your life, so I hope that you can find a way to overcome this frustrating obstacle.

PS: I'm a fellow sufferer, not a medical professional.

[anacyde]

Sinus bradycardia during sleep, I would think, is pretty normal.  When sleeping my heart rate averages around 50-57 beats per minute according to my Holters.

If your doctor didn't mention the pauses, I doubt they are of any significance at all.  As tickertock mentioned, there have to be other factors considered (like length of pause, frequency of pauses, heart rate overall, etc.).

[CollegeGirl143]

sinus bradycardia during sleep is normal..If your doctor didnt find anything concerning, dont try and read over it yourself and find something, because its hard to know what you're looking at.. Holters do give alot of insight, but only if you know how to interpret the actual strips, not just the monitors interpretation of them.. On an ekg, rhythms around 160-170 and above are automatically interpreted as SVT, but that doesnt mean its svt, it can be, and often in anxious people,is just a fast sinus rhythm. Unless you know how to interpret the actual raw data, its best to just trust your doctor :)

[finetilthree]

How did you get "purged"?  I find that amusing that could actually happen to you guys.  I always find your comments very informative and comforting quite frankly.

[CollegeGirl143]

Hmm ya i was wondering the same thing as finetil.

[finetilthree]

Hi.  Certainly no big deal about butting in on the thread, but you may have better luck if you post your questions on the heart support forum.  I would think you'd get a better response since you'd be starting your own thread with a specific question.  Good luck!