PVC cause and resolution?

[NJJerry]

Recently had extensive physical with EKG, Stress Test, Bone Density , EBT , blood work, etc… all normal.  Slight bone density probs in wrist so dr recommended “Viactiv” 2x/day to avoid possible problems in the future.  EBT score was 0, no plaque.  Recently increased resistance training (weights not freq) and increased intensity of runs (2-3 x/week, 3.5 mi per).  I’m 40 yrs, male, good shape.  Job is stressful and only drink caffeine from diet soda.

2 wks post phys noticed painless muscle twitches in thighs and chest. Week later started getting heart palps, thought skipped beats , were double beats.  Became severe after big meal- wine, espresso  -  awoke after 2 hrs sleep, was awake 22 hrs.

Went to cardiologist, had normal echo. Holter showed 2800+ PVCs in 24 hours.  Had 1 instance of a “pattern”, don’t recall what .  I self diagnosed possible cause being Ca supp. and increased sweating ldg to deficiencies in Mg and K.  My K levels were low end of normal during extensive exam

Started K and Mg supplements, muscles aren’t twitching and PVCs have subsided in intensity not frequency.  

- Is there something in Viactiv other than Ca that could have caused onset?
- If it was K and Mg deficiencies, how long before PVCs might stop?  I have been taking them for ~ 2 weeks.
- Could PVCs become permanent? Any danger to exercise – run/lift weights?
- Could EBT scan cause damage or change in the heart to cause this problem?
- I don’t want to take meds.  Can PVCs onset in healthy person with no cause? Are there tests that I haven’t tried that could pinpoint the problem?

[Cleveland Clinic]

NJJerry,

Thanks for the post.

- Is there something in Viactiv other than Ca that could have caused onset?

Your PVCs are probably not related to this medicine.

- If it was K and Mg deficiencies, how long before PVCs might stop? I have been taking them for ~ 2 weeks.

Again, unless your serum levels of these were markedly low..your PVCs are probably not related.


- Could PVCs become permanent? Any danger to exercise – run/lift weights?

With a normal cardiac work up -- no.  You should maximize your fitness. A lot of people have developed other methods to deal with their symptoms.

- Could EBT scan cause damage or change in the heart to cause this problem?

No.


- I don’t want to take meds. Can PVCs onset in healthy person with no cause?

If you read back through this forum you will find a lot of other people with similar concerns and problems. They will also provide a nice support system to see how some have successfully  dealt with their symptoms and anxiet over them.

Are there tests that I haven’t tried that could pinpoint the problem?

Sounds like you've been through the ringer. There are some medications like beta blockers that can alleviate PVCs in some. If they dont bother you that much I probably would be happy that you sound pretty healthy otherwise and enjoy life to its fullest.

good luck

[Jeff-67]

There are many things that I have found that precipitate PACs and PVCs (I should know, I have lived with and monitored them for 20+ years) that many non-symptomatic people would find hard to believe - such as garlic, spices, colds, pollens and many non-prescription medicines. So, there is always the chance that something you are on (such as Viactiv) is precipitating these PVCs. You mentioned you drink alcohol and that can definitely cause PACs and PVCs.  You are getting quite a few PVCs a day, so unless there is something specific you have just started taking or doing that is causing them, it would seem unlikely that they will go away in the future. I hope for your sake they do, but if they do not and you have a normal work-up you really have nothing to worry about. Just know that you are not alone.

[cam4]

I see every day I am on here more symptoms that are just like mine. I thought I was the only one that dreads colds because my PVC get worse!!!
Also, MSG, Spicy foods, eating too much,i even tried to take Paxil and had a bad reaction. alot of times, doctors want to tell us it is unrelated to specific things, but I think it is always related!!! I believe that my heart feels every single thing I put into my body, and when it doesnt like it, I stop putting it in. I do not eat chocolate, caffeine, no more wine!!!
There are things I miss, but , i hate the feelings of PVC more.,
take care
cam

[NJJerry]

Thanks for the responses.  My biggest frustration is that they started a few weeks ago and I never had them before.  There MUST be some cause for the effect.

My theory on the electorlyte deficiency was because Calcium is a known Magnesium depleter, and my workouts increased in intensity so I was sweating alot more (and the weather got hotter).  However, I have stopped Viactiv (Calcium and sugar) and started Potassium and Magnesium supplements.  They are definitely less pronounced but still there.

[relax15]

You sound very methodical about the way you are dealing with these pvc's.  I too have them, thousands on somedays, less on others.  I never really noticed them until last year when I came down with A-fib.  They told me my potassium level was low and it was a freak once in a lifetime thing... Not so, I have been in the hospital several times in the past year and have dealt with the pvc's getting worse in intensity and frequency.  I have seen several doctors and they all say the same thing.  Take these meds and try to live a normal life because there is nothing life threateningly wrong.  I know you want a definintive answer about your pvc's as we all would, but I don't think you will find one.  Some people swear by dietary supplements and other exotic remedies to get through the day, but I really think it is all in your mind.  There are literally thousands of tests they can and will run on you if you ask for them.  I imagine that with the workup you have already been through that not much will be discovered.  Pvc's are a major pain in the butt, and many of us live with them.  Sometimes the best support is knowing others share the same feelings.  But if you do find a cure or some answers to the origin of your pvc's I am sure we all are interested.  I hope you start feeling better soon, it sounds like you are in awesome physical shape so that should be a blessing as well.

[dafan]

Dear Friend, If i might ask... I was wondering how old you were when you first started noticing them and are they frequent with you... As for myself... I was 49 when i started really noticing them even tho thinking back i did have them only occasionally ... 1 every now and then for 2 or 3 years. Oh.. and some days im sure i do have 2 to 3 thousand. But they always seem to subside in the evening. Ive also read that they do occur more freqently in those people who have been athletes all their life which tends to make me believe it could be from the.... wear and tear??? only a supposition on my part. thanks.

[NJJerry]

The one other interesting point that I didn't mention.  They seem to be more prevalant when I am at rest.  They never bother me during my daily activities or exercising.  It is only when I want to relax, sleep, etc.. that they seem to be more noticeable and frequent.

I know I am methodical or maniacal about it, but they didn't creep up on me they started all of a sudden.  It doesn't seem like that makes sense without either an outside factor or "damage" to my heart.  Since it seems like I don't have damage I'm still searching for the factor.  Oh well, I guess there are worse things.

[relax15]

I am 28 going on 29 years old, I used to play basketball several nights a week and have been fairly active my whole life (skateboarding, snowboarding, golf, canoeing, etc..)  Pvc's always seem more bothersome when you are relaxing. I think it is because the rest of your body is relaxing and then BOOM you feel the pvc.  I have been there trust me- just laying on the couch trying to watch a movie or something and you just cant seem to focus on anything else.  It's really rough sometimes for all of us, maybe even people who have been suffering for 20 years with them.  7 or 8 months ago I did not know how I would be able to live the rest of my life dealing with my heart skipping.  If I really sit here and focus on it I can feel it skip a few times a minute at least.  And when I don't focus on it only a few hard ones bother me.  I had two or three in a row this morning at work talking to a friend of mine.  It rattled me for a second because thats usually how my a-fib kicks in but everything is ok, and back to normal.  I think we all have this preconceived notion that the heart is like a metronome and keeps perfect time and rhythm, but in our cases its a little different.  We just have different time signatures than others but it doesn't have to be debilitating.  I think we have all obsessed over our heart beat at one time or another but I think it gets worse the more you focus on it.  What you can't do is stop doing the things you love because of some stupid pvc's.  I totally agree that people that don't suffer them have no idea how traumatic it can be at times.  To me pvc's are like a fly landing on your nose when you are trying to sleep just a big nuisance.

[lak]

Just need to vent a little.  I have had pvc's for about three years and I have thousands a day everyday.  I don't really notice them either unless I am a rest or have just eaten.  Someone on the forum once said that they are not stabbing pain but mine are.  You can actually put your hand on my chest and know when it beats stops and then stabs.  I have had all the tests and am on atenol which has made me gain weight, retain water and fatiged.  I also take 2 hyzaar a day for high blood pressure.  I am 47, 160 lbs and this situation has wreaked havoc only my body.  I am a administrative assistant and a desk position is not the best thing.  But, I am exhausted at the end of the day sometimes to the point of nausea.  Yesterday, I got up at 9:00 went to Lowes came home sprayed off the front porch, planted a couple of flowers and collapsed.  This can not be a way of life.  I am getting so discouraged because I get tired so easy.  It does help to hear other peoples stories.
Thanks for listening.  Comments from everyone welcome.

[francie12]

I also have about 2,ooo PVC's a day as recorded on the holter monitor.  Mine appeared out of the blue one day as I was sitting at the computer (probably on this site) researching my son's heart condition.  On circumstantial evidence, I'm guessing my PVC's are the result of many hours of stress related to worry about my son.   When I think about his problem, aortic insufficiency and dilation of the ascending aorta, with OHS somewhere in the future, it puts my problem in perspective.  I know it may sound crazy to some, but I've adopted a friendly attitude to PVC's.  They don't cause pain, they are not damaging to the heart--they are thumping and flopping as I write this--it seems like just another way for a heart to beat.  I don't mean to minimize the distress this can cause to others--just my take on things.  Good luck.

[TSG]

Hello,

My cardiologist has set me up for a sleep study because he said there is some correlation between how we sleep and the heart.  My mother who actually worked at the sleep lab in the hospital said there were a lot of people getting the studies done for this reason and after they were treated (usually sent home with Cpap) the pvc's decreased or stopped.  Now I don't know if this was 'everyone' or just the people that reported back.

I'm really hopeful that this 'could' be my problem...I don't sleep well at all, and these dang PVC's just started up out of the blue about 8 weeks ago.  I have noticed that when I do get a really good nights sleep, I either don't have any at all the next day, or they are so infrequent, that I don't even notice them.  Two days ago our little one kept me up for all but 3 hours that night and the next day the PVC's were terrible...probably the worst I've had them.

I'll let you know what they find.

Shayne

[Jeff-67]

So your PVCs trigger A-fib? Do you know that it is not VT? I have been trying for a long time to work out weather I get VT or SVT/A-fib, but it has never been captured.  I can have a couple of ectopics (which I assume are PVCs), and then I will break into a fast erratic pulse where my heart kicks vigorously for a while. Sound anything like what you get?

[Jeff-67]

I do not think I have ever had an ectopic that does not have some strange feeling associated with it. When the ectopic (PVC or PAC) occurs, I will feel any of the following: stabbing pain; violent kick; weird sensations from different parts of the chest or stomach; a rippling feeling as the beat contracts abnormally and seems to take a long time to ripple through; etc. I feel all of this with the ectopic beat. Many doctors have told me I am feeling the compensatory beat and that you do not feel anything when you get the ectopic beat.  Well, after 20+ years of monitoring they are very wrong and there is no question what I feel (EKGs have proven this). So, you are not alone!

I noticed something interesting many years ago.  If I take my pulse at my neck during ectopics, I can feel my artery kick really hard when I get the ectopic (not compensatory) beat. It kicks much harder than a normal beat.  Ever felt that? I can't work this out ... the ectopic beat occurs when there is less blood in the heart, and if it is a PVC the contraction is far less efficient since the muscle contracts abnormally, so it makes no sense to me, but I was curious whether others had noticed this.

[tickertock]

Just as PVC trigger SVT, PVCs can also trigger a-fib from my understanding. I have seen a-fib with PVCs on the same ECG tracing , a-fib and PVCs occuring in same host.

I suspect that my PVCs sometime trigger small episodes of paroxysmal atrial fibrillation. I know that i have PVCs that trigger PAT with PVCs occuring along with the PAT, no fun, documented on ECG.

I take atenolol 100mg and never had an attack of PAT while on it, though I still get a few odds PVCs with a few that triggers very short lived, a few seconds only, of what i suspect might be PAF.

[sdrlmom]

Hi!  I too suffer from those darn PVC's.  I just had a cardio workup and like so many others, everything was fine.  I was even told I had an athletes heart!  Yeah Right! I don't even exercise. I am 38 and female.  Bp,weight, blood work and everthing else is totally normal. My regular Dr put me on 25mg of atenolol in January when the pvc's really flared up.  My question is does anyone else take this and exercise?  I am trying to do some exercising, but I feel out a breath really fast with minimal exercising. The cardiologist said I was just out of shape and did not think I needed to stay on the atenolol.  i thought I read somewhere that being on atenolol may make working out harder because it really tries to keep your heart rate low.Does anyone else have a similar situation.  Any comments would be helpful. Thanks

[tickertock]

i am on 100mg of atenolol daily and can reach up to 93% of my maxium predicted heartrate after 11 minutes on an exercise stress test.

of course we are all different and respond differently.(40 years old)that's about 168 bpm.

[relax15]

Yah, I am sure its not VT. I have been in the hospital three times for cardioversion.  I have pvc's and a-fib at the same time which can feel quite strange.  I take norpace cr everyday and it seems to be decreasing the number of attacks.  My main hurdle is for weeks at a time I cannot swallow anything without having massive pvc's after each swallow.  Swallowing or laughing or even raising my voice can trigger the a-fib at times.  Then there are weeks when everything is fine.  I just had about 2 months of complete freedom and now back to difficulty swallowing.  Thats one thing I wish my doctors could figure out.  I have read other people have the same problem but very few...

[andrsn]

I just found this forum and wanted to share my issues.

I'm 32 and noticed similar "PVC"-ish heartbeats about a year ago.  I noticed that whenever I was under emotional stress or was subjected to some sort of trauma or anxiety causing situation, my irregular beats were more apparent.

I first went to a doctor when my heart actually stopped beating for about 4 to 6 seconds at a time.  Then there was this tremendous beat that just shook my whole body.  The doctor hooked me up and concluded it was normal and to not worry about it.

Now, I just had a friend die and I've seen my problem peak.  It's freaky.  Went to a walk-in clinic where they noticed these PVC's about every 5th or 6th beat.  All my tests came back normal, including blood pressure, though.  My heart rate on the ekg ranged from 37 to 60bpm.  I don't exercise regularly but swim whenever I get to the ocean(few times every other month).

I've been advised to see a specialist but am afraid they're going to try to cure me w/ medication and not help minimize the cause.  I've been reading everything everyone has written and plan on cutting back on some things and adding some others to my diet and exercise program.

Thanks for the info.
Anderson
Denver, CO

[Jeff-67]

Do you know how often A-fib/svt/pat are triggered by PVCs as apposed to being triggered above the ventricles?

[tickertock]

From my understanding roughly 20-30% of the time.

[Justadudeguyme]

Watchout for stuff like sudafed also.  My brother gets them too.  He just ignores it.  For me, if I just ignore them, they go away.  Stress is a factor too.  If you are stressed out, just expect them and forget about it.  They will go away as fast as they come.

[imperial57]

My question is on related symptoms.  I have PVCs that often last for hours.  After a period of probalby 15 minutes or more, I feel pressure in my sinuses, in the area behind my eyes.  I don't experience tachycardia, as my heartbeat doesn't race, but it is very synchopated - most of the time now.  I had an ablation done 6 weeks ago and for 18 hours it was bliss - not an out-of-sync beat.  Then it started up again.  Now they're the worst they've been.  At the time I went on the table, my heart was not misbehaving so the doctor attempted to induce the behavior.  The result was the ablation didn't work.  The sinus symptoms, like the PVCs have accelerated.  My question is what is the connection.  I've mentioned this to the doctor whose reply was that he had not heard of these related symptoms in other patients.  By the way, I am having a second ablation done this coming Thursday.  Also, if this second attempt fails, do you have any comments regarding further treatment, ie drugs.  Your response will be greatly appreciated.

[tickertock]

Hi,

Can I ask was your ablation specifically for PVCs alone or some other type of arrhythmia? How many PVCs do experience in a 24 hour period?

About the sinuses i have no idea, I only know that holding your nose and blowing can be used to slow or stop some SVTs.Maybe its vagally related , just a guess, i'm no doctor.

Maybe your heart is still irritated from the ablation and needs more time to heal, 6 weeks is early, sometimes I understand it take 6 months to a year to determine the success of some ablations.

Good luck with your second ablation, let us know what happens.

[Vannnddy]

What do you do when PVCs are caused by or at least made worse by, exercise itself? I used to use exercise to rid myself of PVCs and anxiety in general. Now, exercise eiuther starts them going or makes them worse.

[tickertock]

In my own experience sometime PVCs develop circadian rhythms of their own from time to time for example what used to stop them might change and trigger them and what might trigger them before same to stop them.

If they increase with exercise or activity , get an exercise stress test to make sure things are alright. The benefits of moderate exercise is very beneficial to ones overall cardiovascular health, whereas PVCs with exercise pose no risk with a normal cardiac work up, at least this is the advice I have received from my cardiologist, of course what applys to one person might not apply to another, check with your doctor to make sure you are alright.

[wal44]

I am thinking that serum levels of Mg are not always reliable. You have to have a intracellular Mg test to REALLY know how your Mg level is.
Someone posted they thought Mg depleted Ca. Actually, my understanding is rather that it "competes" with K.
Although I'm a pretty big fan of electrolyte factors, I believe they often are NOT the only factors.
There are a number of "things" folks take to try to mitigate them, and different things work on different people. I finally found some good relief (not total cure) from Mg, L-Carnatine, CoQ10, and GABA (yeah, I know GABA is not well absorbed - but it helps!) It took me three years to find out which stuff really helped me and was not just a placebo (placebos usually do not last). I went from many hours of bigemeny at a time (absolutely sufferable!) to sporatic/occasional skips.