I've had chest pains and PVC's for 7 months now. Good news is I'm finally more or less convinced I don't have cardiovascular disease. I suppose at 35 yrs old, having passed
ThalliumThallium and sestamibi stress tests and Stress echo's, combined with acknowledgement that I do have PVC's but I am able to exercise at 85-90% of my max HR without chest pain is enough to get me 90% of the way to "thinking
normalNormal saline flush rational thoughts". It has been difficult for sure as I do have a lot of jaw and left arm pain, but I now believe that has a
nerveNerve biopsy
Nerve conduction velocity/muscular cause as those symptoms are getting worse, but are easier to pinpoint now. That said, a few questions.
1. My PVC's generally get worse as the day goes on or after I exercise. I can wake up and feel
normalNormal saline flush and have very few PVC's, but later in the day they get worse, and sometimes after exercise.
NormalNormal saline flush? Any reason for this?
2. During my stress echo, as my HR went above 120, they completely went away during my stress echo, only to return as my HR dropped below 120. Cardiologist said this was
normalNormal saline flush?
3. Is it possible that a vagus nerve problem can cause PVC's?
4. The doc said a low dose beta blocker might be useful (toprol XL), besides side effects, it doesn't make sense to me as my PVC's seem to go away when my HR rises, wouldn't a beta blocker prevent this? Or does it have a mech of action?
I want to thank you and everyone here for their time/posts. This has been a difficult 8 months, and while I'm not back to normal yet, I'm no longer convinced I'm going to die, I still have thoughts that concern me but I'm at least 85-90% better mentally.
Yup, they wanted to load me up on Xanax also for "Anxiety" which seems to be the cop out these days. I tried it, it did nothing other than get me all wound up after trying to ween off of it.
My anxiety, if I had it was over potential heart problems. Chicken or the egg.
It was nice when I finally got a cardiologist (3rd I went to) to finally listen and talk a bit. I could tell he also felt it was a bit of anxiety, but at least took the time.
Young people get short changed when it comes to cardiology. I'll bet many additional appointments could be avoided by an extra 5 minutes during a first.
It took me MONTHS to figure out what was going on...feeling was so bad...thought I was dying. Once I found out it was these beats and found this forum...I was relieved to see it is somewhat common but still worried SOMETTHING WAS WRONG WITH MY HEART AND THEY JUST DIDNT FIND IT YET. I am trying to find a way to cope with this the best I can. I can handle the little ones, bu the BIG ONES, I still panic. I just can't help it.
Believe me I know how you feel to a T! It's totally normal for someone to feel the way you do considering the terrifying feeling associated with these darn palps. I have a routine check up tomorrow with my cardiologist and I am really looking forward to another conversation and the chance to ask some more new questions I have regarding PVC's since...you can't learn enough about them before you hear something else new! haha.
I hope that you are able to put the past scary and difficult 8mths behind you and that you can move on step by step into a worry free or at least very low stress life style. And everyone is different so don't compare yourself to anyone else, just listen to your cardio, trust them ok? Once a 3rd opinion comes around good, trust it, believe in it, your ok. A 1st opinion from a good cardiologist is great too.
I wish you the best and keep reading this forum, the archives on palps are a great place to start! :)
Take care,
Nurse Kagome :)
Talylor, have you read any literature, on the internet or in a book on heart disorders at the bookstore, about what is happening in your heart when you have a pvc? The heart's chambers are elastic; they receive and pump out basically as much or as little blood as comes into them from other parts of your body.
When you have a premature or early beat (that's the one you will probably NOT feel), there will next be a pause in the regular rhythm, until the next scheduled beat. This pause or delay is not long enough to be dangerous, but it is likely the cause of the weird, sinking, or 'going down the hill" feeling you describe. Some people are more sensitive to it than others, but I feel this one, too. Anyhow, during this pause, when you don't feel a pulse, your ventricle has time to get a little more full with returning blood than usual. Since the ventricle is elastic, it easily expands to receive any extra blood.
Of course, the ventricle also has to pump OUT the blood it receives. It's a muscle, and a strong one, so it contracts HARD, like a fist, to pump out what has come in. That's probably the "BIG ONE" you feel. It's scary, but's it's almost certainly a perfectly normal response to a small delay in the heartbeat.
These feelings are almost impossible to ignore once you are sensitized to them. As the doctor here has said, beta blockers may or may not reduce the frequency of these funny beats--but they seem to change the way we perceive them. You might want to ask your doc for a try. These drugs are usually not dangerous, but they can make you tired, among other things.
You say you are still worried that something is wrong with your heart, and that the doctors just haven't found it yet. This is something you simply must get over, because it is not helpful in any way. Believe it or not, docs do learn very difficult stuff in medical school. and we all understand that--otherwise we'd all go to medical school, right?
Doctors learn how to recognize dangerous conditions, and they have no interest whatsoever in missing a diagnosis or having a patient die on them. That hurts their pride, for one thing. You have been checked out very thoroughly, and have been told that your heart is healthy. You have undoubtedly noticed by now that you can do your usual, daily activities, right? This means that you are healthy, in spite of the irregular beats.
It is not difficult to get an understanding of how the heart works, how the beat starts, how it spreads through the heart, and what kinds of things can cause changes in the rhythm. If you cannot accept what your doctors tell you, I suggest you take an anatomy and physiology class at your local junior college. The fees are usually quite low, and anyone, really anyone, can learn this stuff--provided he or she is willing to study hard.
I had all the test at the Cardio..EKG, Holter, Stress-Echo, and all came back fine.
What finally made my PVCs go 99% away was starting a daily supplement of Magnesium Citrate. I take 400 mgs a day (one am, one before bed), and maybe once every few weeks, I'll have one or two PVCs. If I still have them more often, I'm definitely not feeling them, and that's good enough for me.
Just wanted to offer the magnesium suggestion...
God Bless,
Mike
I don't know what MRUI's are. SSRI would be Lexapro, correct? I read that could cause palpitations but and a fast HR and I was concerned about that but he told me I need to stop worrying about all these things and listen to him. I told him my cardio mentioned the betablocker. (oh yeah...went to an EP who didnt even check my pulse or run an EKG in his office or look at all my test results and just wrote me a RX for a calcium channel blocker (Verapamil)but I was hesitant to follow that. This second EP said no to both. In your post, you said you think Lexapro WONT work? and a beta will???
NurseKagome...I find myself having questions all the time. I truly go thru stages where I think I can handle it, think they are going away and then BAM I get one and I fall two steps back again. I get different feelings:
1. Quick shock like feeling.
2. Little/Big thumps.
3. Feeling of fullness or "pull" in the neck (lasts a second)
4. The SINKING feeling (that I now know the BIG ONES come from the runs of these beats and they always feel like its never going to stop. Terrifying)
5. Quick "push" or "pressure" in throat
I was convinced for so long that all these feelings must be DIFFERENT things causing this and wanted to wear a monito til I caught all of them. Again, doc's say "YOU ARE FINE". I told them "but i didnt have a BIG ONE being monitored...what if that is something dangerous?"...his answer...TRY THE LEXAPRO!
Woodruff...I believe you were one of the ones I corresponded with on this forum when I first came here (about two months ago). THank you for all your knowledge and advice. Believe it or not, I have done alot of research trying to figure out what exactly is happening in my body when these things come on. Also, alot of my knowledge has come from reading posts on this forum. I can't believe how much rings true to how I feel and what my concerns are. I truly thought I was losing it for quite some time there until I discovered this wasnt something all in my head or something I was taking way too over the top. THESE FEELINGS CAN TRULY SCARE PEOPLE. I tried and still try to this day to have my family and friends listen to this aspect, cause all they say is THE DOCS ALL SAY YOU ARE FINE SO I DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR PROBLEM IS NOW. They just have no idea.
Because I have SOB, chest tightness, sometimes heat feeling, sometimes numbness in left arm and hand, I STILL have a WHAT IF? that I cant let go of. But I am tryng.
I am vacationing in France right now, the other night started getting PVC'S with the really hard THUMPS, I am thinking how can this be "normal" went to a hospital in Paris, what a nightmare!, nobody spoke a word of english, got an EKG. All they could say is no heart attack. I am counting the minutes to get the hell out of France and go back to San Diego to see my Cardio. Those beats I was having the other night were not normal, and they didn't even hook me up to a monitor to watch the rhythm, so none of these beats were recorded.
Best wishes
I had them documented during an exercise stress while having a bad episode of them , nearly every PVC I had during the test felt different, yet everyone was a unifocal PVC originating from the very same spot, probably had a total of about 10-12 PVC during the entire stress test at just about every heartrate maximum beats achieved was 171 bpm which was about 93% of the max predicted heartrate, I was just about to turn 37, so the max predicted heartrate was 183bpm. I was told I just needed to get my heartrate up to 155 bpm which would have been 85% of max predicted heartrate as far as i was told that was the percentage you need to achieve for the test to be rated as fairly accurate. I'm just trying to say that the very same PVCs can feel quite different at times, I really don't know why but that's just the way it is. I think this is reason why so many patients think that their doctor/cardio/Ep must have missed something, 99.9% of the time nothing is missed of course nothing in life is 100%.
I also never know what will trigger them. Sometimes I can all day with one little one. Or a day with one BIG one or a day with alot of little ones and then a day with nothing. Sometimes a deep breath. Sometimes cleaning. Bending. Sometimes after exercise or going up a flight of stairs. What freaks me out is sometimes I can feel my left chest almost filling up, almost like it is enflating like a balloon and then one will come or...if I stop what I am doing...it will simply pass. I HATE THAT. Goes all the way up to my neck. I mention all this stuff to the docs and they still say YOU ARE FINE. Meanwhile, I think angina, an undiagnosed arrhythmia, a disease, a clogged this or that...yes...i ran and sometimes still run the gamet in my head.
I live close to NY and had made an appointment with one of the top 10 best EP's in NY who works out of Mount Senai. Made this appointment weeks ago. My family thought I was nuts but I think I need someone who REALLY knows what he is doing. Not saying my other doctors are quacks or no good, not at all...I like them. But this anxiety diagnosis has me frustrated to no end. I know that is not the cause of my problems.
I know when I will have a "bad" day of PVC'S. I know which ones will cause me the most grief. Anybody out there know of any good doctors in the San Diego or Los Angeles area?
I am upset I am taking the Lexapro but felt cornered into it almost. Hoping this doc in NY next month has more/better insight.
Talylor, you will probably never be able to isolate a real trigger for these things. Very few of us here have. It's frustrating, but that's the way it is.
However, you say that you get them while cleaning, while going up stairs, and after exercise, but--please notice--you CAN clean, you can go up stairs, and you can exercise. People with bad hearts cannot keep on doing these things. They turn ashy-colored, they sweat profusely, they cannot breathe, and they cannot go on. You do not have these signs of illness.
However, you are very, very of your physical symptoms now. You even kind of "listen" for them, don't you? And this is at the very same time that you can undoubtedly see that your body is functioning just fine, even when you feel one of the BIG ONES (which is probably just an unusually strong but healthy contraction of your ventricle).
I have experienced the same symptoms as you (over 4000 pvcs in a day, kiddo), and here is what I have learned:
A beta blocker reduces my awareness of these odd beats, even though it may not change how often they occur. Beta blockers also make me, personally, too tired to function (though this does not happen to everyone).
However, in less than two weeks, the right SSRI not only reduces my awareness of my irregular hearbeats, but it takes away the habit of "listening" for them. I mean, it flat takes it away, so that after four or five months on the right drug, I can taper off--and the fear stays away for a long time. Oh, it may come back in a year or two or three (I get bouts of panic attacks at wide intervals), but in between, I am fine, even though I'm still having the PVCs.
I agree with al dente that a cardiologist is not trained in psychiatry. Cardiologists do know when a heart is healthy and when it is not. They do know that anxiety can make innocent symptoms seem worse, but they are not really familiar with psych drugs.
My shrink happens to be an specialist in the chemistry of this particular kind of medication, and we have gone through several SSRIs to find the right ones for me. Everyone is different, so don't believe it when someone tells you that such-and-such is a "terrible" drug. It may be bad for that person, but not another. Speaking for myself, I have learned that Celexa and Zoloft work the best for me, while Lexapro made me very nervous--AND it made chocolate unappealing. Definitely not the right drug for this person!
Interestingly, not one of the SSRIs made my PVCS worse, not even Lexapro.
Please think about consulting with a psychiatrist on this issue. In a phone call, you can ask if the doctor specializes in drug or talk therapy.
But the thing is, this IS the way your life is now. This is the way your heart is behaving now. You will probably never find a trigger. You will probably never find anything that will make the PVCs go away. However, accepting the damned things, and realizing--way down inside--that your ability to function physically is NOT affected, will enable you to live a normal and happy life.
"BUT NEVER ONCE SUFFERED ANXIETY OR FEELINGS LIKE I DO NOW...THIS is my main arguement that what I am feeling is NOT caused by depression or anxiety. Something triggered this CONSTANT aching on my left side, hard to catch a deep breath, left sided numbness, SOB and most of all these PAC/PVC. I caved in to the Lexapro out of desperation."
No, there was probably not any physical or emotional trigger that you will ever isolate. I can understand that you are desperate to find one, in the hope that the symptoms will go away, and your life will return to the way it was, but it is probably never going to happen.
I can also hear your desperation, and since you are now trying to second-guess yourself on what drug to take--thus giving yourself even more pain--I urge you to call a psychiatrist right now. I mean, get on the phone, and do it NOW.
OK, I see you're in counseling. That's good. But after three months, you should be feeling better than you are. My personal opinion is that you would profit from talking with a psychiatrist--if you are not doing so--because psychiatrists are MDs and can prescribe medications. There's a lot to be said for choosing the right drug, believe me, and then having regular follow-up visits with your shrink to see how you're doing.