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Avatar universal

RUNS OF PVCS and NSVT...

I have had palps (what every monitor I've had has revealed to be PVCS, not PACS) since I started cardizem last July following cardioversion for AFib...BTW, I am a 30 year old man. No family history of CAD or SCD.

For the past year I would generally have one real bad day or maybe 2-3 a month. Meaning I would have a couple thousand PVCs...then a few light days, and most days with 2-3 a day.

In April it felt like I was starting to get them more frequently...and I wanted to get off the cardizem anyway because I think even low level blockers aren't great to be on. BTW...I have not had any a-fib since cardio version.

I stopped the cardizem on May 15th, and started the Sinatra program (CoQ10, Magnesium, D-Ribose, and L Carnitine) on June 3rd. Since then I've had more heavy days than ever...and very few light days it seems. What is more concerning is that 3-4 times now in the last 10 days I have felt runs of several PVCs in a row...maybe 2-4 back to back. From what I understand this is NSVT. My EP specialist is sending me ANOTHER 30 day loop monitor to wear around to try and see just what it is.

Running for 30 minutes (about 3 miles) generally seems to get rid of the palps for most of the rest of the day when I get them. This AM I had a couple of runs of PVCs, went for a run, felt good during the run and they went away for the most part. My docs have repeatedly told me the standard, "in a structurally normal heart like yours these are benign". My specialist even said last August that he wasn't sure that what appeared to be a run of NSVT was even NSVT? I still don't understand this.

I have fought all year to come to grips with having bad PVC/PAC days. Then I came to grips with having PVCs when I thought they were PACS...then I came to grips with having more PVCs every day...but now I am more scared. I know that NSVT runs are not supposed to be dangerous in a healthy heart, but its hard to believe sometimes. One other thing, my worst runs of PVCs are almost always sitting down while working on a computer or talking, etc.

So what are my options? Is this just nothing? Could they become something worse? Are all these PVCs bad for my heart?

I don't know...I feel discouraged that I can't get past these things and that when I do they seem to get worse...

Would love any insight...I guess I will be seeing my specialist againt after having this monitor for 30 days...which I have not gotten yet.

Thanks in advance.

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Avatar universal
thanks again deedle...the last two hours have been awful. Maybe the worst I've ever had with PVCs...several runs of multiple PVCs...and for the first time I am starting to feel uncomfortable afterwards...not like I am going to pass out, but more like the runs are making me weak or woozy. I walked up a flight of stairs afterward and I felt fine...but these things are really scaring me now...I don't know why they have gotten so bad in the last month. I think the woozy feeling may just be the terrible anxiety I get when I feel these things. Anyone else get this? I am just having a hard time believing these things are not bad for my heart.

My fear is that the cardizem messed me up...I don't think they even should have put me on that ****. I really don't want to go back on it now...especially if this was the result. It's not like it took away my PVCs altogether anyway...heck, I wasn't even prescribed the cardizem for PVCs!!!

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Avatar universal
This study was made here in Brazil, and can be found here: http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?typ=pdf&doi=95950
You have to pay to read the full article though.
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Avatar universal
Wildcat,
It was published in the medical journal "cardiology" earlier this year. I'm a reseach scientist (not cardiology; I have a PhD in Genetics) and I'm currently working in scientific publications so I have to read alot of literature.
I have copied a post I made on another thread below with further detail.

They put a 24 holter monitor on approximately 625 normal people. They did echos, stress tests etc. on all of them to ensure they had a normal heart and measured the incidence of pvc's, bigeminy, couplets and vtach in this healthy population.

The article is
Cardiac Arrhythmias and Atrioventricular Block in a Cohort of Asymptomatic
Individuals without Heart Disease
In "Cardiology" 2007;108:111–116


The results are in the form of a large table so I couldn't copy and paste it into any readible form. I have copied the data for the overall incidence of each ventricular arrhythmia. (This is further broken down by age in the original table)

Below is the number of subjects having each arrhythmia followed by the percentage of the total population.

Total subjects 625
ventritricular ectopic beats 398 (63.7%)
Isolated ventritricular ectopic beats 392 (62.7%)
Paired ventricular ectopic beats 55 (8.8%)
Bigeminy ventricular ectopic beats 20 (3.2%)
Polymorphic ectopic beats 186 (29.8%)
Nonsustained ventricular tachycardia 21 (3.4%)

The average length of nsvt was 13.8 beats.

"In individuals with nonsustained ventricular tachycardia the average of number of beats was 13.8 (SD 13.5) beats and longest number of ventricular beats recorded was 69; the mean rate of the tachycardia was 137 beats."


It doesn't give data regarding the average number of PVC's etc. Just the percentage of people that had them. The only thing it mentions is the following:

"We detected in a 61-yearold nonsmoker woman 24,900 isolated ventricular ectopic beats. She denied symptoms and is asymptomatic after
a 4-year follow-up"

"Inclusion Criteria
Asymptomatic individuals older than 14 years with normal
clinical examination, electrocardiogram, chest X-ray, echoDopplercardiogram
and treadmill electrocardiographic exercise
stress test."
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Avatar universal
thanks for that great report...where did you find it...thanks again!
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Avatar universal
You are very lucky if exercises make you feel better! My PACs get so much worse when I run. Today, for example, as soon as I started running I felt countless PACs, which scared me to death.

I have already had an arrhythmia (Atrial Flutter) that was always triggered when I run. After the ablation, although I have never had an episode again, I kept having PACs during exercises. What am I supposed to think? The arrhythmia is coming back? Should I stop or continue running, which is a great passion of mine? Sometimes I resign to the situation and think: "OK, I don't have to run anymore, I can be fine just walking or riding a bicycle or something lighter". Sometimes I think: "No, I am normal and docs gave me the go ahead, so I'll just run and be happy". But then I get the symptoms again, and I see myself at point zero. So my life feels a like a roller coaster, with some flashes of peace and long moments of worrying.

Some days I feel my heart going BAM-BAM-BAM-BAM, and I'm so sure it's a PSVT. I had an episode of this last week while I was wearing a holter, but, surprisingly, it was nothing!! Just a bigeminy (one PAC after a normal beat), but that's all. So, I guess just because we can be very familiarized with certain symptoms, doesn't mean we are never wrong. I would not conclude that I had an "run of PVC" it there wasn't something recording it. And I guess that an episode like this would not be classified as a PSVT, because it would mean the arrhythmia originates from the atrium - which is the opposite of PVCs. It can be nothing. Well you have a normal structured hear, so don't worry.
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Avatar universal
Hi everyone!  Ok  so got a question or two and so far just reading has  been great for my pvc episode. I have good days and bad like all of you here. When i first started pvc about 5 years ago it started like all the rest frantic and scary as well... yea you know it! I have been having runs of pvc and of course about every 3rd beat. Years ago it did not go lilke this, it was more like 6 or 7 per minute on the bad days. I had a bad episode of them just two weeks ago and thought really its over! I got through it by seeing the reg M.D whom took another ekg and said wow! you really are having them every other beat aernt you? YES I screamed and she then called the cardiologist on call whom told her that my ekg was normal with pvc "Benign" That night i thought i was going to climb the walls as i felt every god awful skip which was every other beat. I took a zanex which i absolutely hate taking because im then tired with my pvc. I went back the next day and saw another DR M.D whom repeated the ekg and said yep your having pvc and your not going to die because there Benign. Go home and rest and pray or scream or do something to get through, this will go away and you will be fine. That night i slept all night and low and behold pvc was gone the next day. I felt as if i had a new lease on life since i am 42 years very young. I work out daily and well try to eat right. Not all days are a diet day! LOL
So I know that pvc is not harmful in a normal heart, but living with them is hard to. I am going to take hawthorne berry co Q10 and mag it seems that when im really feeling healthy it seems to make my pvc rest a bit more. I do have them daily and please note i know what your all feeling. I have had to do lots to keep calm. Ive come back to the boards after several years of not having any run episodes but now its back with a real anger. Have any of you delt with things getting worse? Are they always worse are some attacks better then others? Help!! Thanks,
Debbie in Calif
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Avatar universal
They print the strip from my ICD.  I bring it to my local doctor and rarely even look at it.  I have no training to read it and if I tried I would probably end up deciding that I had multiple problems including leporosy.   Please, find a doctor you trust.  If he says do not worry, then please dont.  Panic can overtake your life from what I can see  The flutters are not ruining your life, the panic/anxiety are disturbing your life.  Find your triggers, take back control.  I am sure it will not happen overnight.   Good luck.
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225570 tn?1191287073
What is the differance between pvc,pac svt vtach, im not sure what i have the doc called it short bursts of vtach but my heart didnt speed up it just felt like summer saults so ii was wondering if the doc see's more then 2 pvcs in a row does he call that short vtach i only have the big ones like once a month but i feel little flutters all day i think thats just my anxiety..can anyone give me some insite my doc just ignores me and tell me its my panic disorder..its ruining my life its all i think about...when i saw the strip from the hospital it looked like 3 pvcs then 1 then 4 and it lasted like 2 seconds and it felt like flip flops or summer saults or a fish flapping now if im correct v-tach feels like a racing heart thats what i was told i didnt feel that and my heart rate was the same so what the heck do i have and can it kill me..thanks Gina
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216258 tn?1189755827
What I meant on the PVC women that were those who whining about their PVC 's  
I didn’t pay attention the names , If you fear factor one of them well it all means…

Anyway exercise is the best thing: running, etc as wildcat pointed it out well, and of course sex too with an old or even with a new lover. :)  

Wildcat you run fast, not bad...keep doing it...it is the feeling of freedom isn’t it?
this is how I feel when running...........

fear factor you don't need to go, just stay, you like this board , I said what I sad, if I stay still would do....:)....but I think I came here by mistake on the first place, so please don't leave for 'my account' :).....I wont be here often. maybe this is my last post or who knows what our tomorrow brings?

One good thing to have a serious condition is: you get used to it and you will be not afraid to get it anymore . I have it.It is not the end of the world you know Isn’t it a nice word?: CARDIOMYOPATHY . I love it and I am not even joking. :)


I enjoy my life 100%  and am saying what I think in any given moment is part of that.

We need tick skin you know; life is just not a big group hug.

Have a worry free life and count your blessings.:)
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Avatar universal
FYI, Wilcat is a MALE, not one of the neurotic "PVC women" you mentioned.  
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Avatar universal
I hope we do not have the same problem.  I have Cardiomyopathy and CHF.  I do have the svt's etc but am "maintained" by an ICD.  Uggg is a good reaction to a cath.  That we do share.  See if you can get your records from the earlier doctor so that the current one can have a reference.  Good luck to you.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi wildcat,
A recent study, involving 24 hour monitoring of 625 people, has shown that 3.4% of healthy people had non sustained v tach.  8.8 of people had couplets (2 PVCs in a row). If this many people happened to have nsvt during the 24 hours of recording I'm sure the number of peole who have it, but just not that day, would be even higher.
These people all had healthy hearts as judged by Echo etc. The nsvt was found in young people under 30 years aswell as older people. The average length of the nsvt was 13 beats.
So just think when you look around you. Out of every 30 people that you pass on the street 1 of them will likely have a run of nsvt that day.  
I know I have posted this several times recently so I hope I'm not boring anyone by being repetitive.  I just want to help relieve people's anxiety over PVCs as i know how awful they can be and how life consuming the associated anxiety can become.
Helpful - 0
225570 tn?1191287073
Hi thanks for the post..no they were to different cardiologists..one said i was fine it was just anxiety and the one i saw a few days ago said with my family history he would like to do a cath..uggg!!!. he said he dosnt think its anything but he said with the panic disorder it might out my mind at ease that i dont have any heart blockage...Do you have what i have? if so does it feel like summer saults like mine and do they call long runs of pvcs v-tach some times? when i got my echo results back where it says diagnosis it said svt but i think they just right stuff there...i thing they all sound the same to me everyone that has pvc's seems to have the same feeling as me..my heart dosnt feel like its racing at all just kinda flip flopping and just for a second or 2...im scared im only 30 and i have no children yet i hope this dosnt effect that.
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Avatar universal
I am sorry you are still afraid despite your tests and the doctor's conclusion that you heart is normal.  If you feel that unsure of the doctor's ability maybe you should get another opinion.  Was it the same cardiologist both times?
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225570 tn?1191287073
Hi i am new here i was just in the hospital a month ago and while i was there i felt this wierd feeling like my heart was doing tumble saults they checked the moniter and called a cadiologist in he admited me into the icu he told me i had a short bust of v-tach when i saw the strip it looked like 3 in a row then 1 then 4 it was 3 seconds long he seemed very concerned and made me get a nucular stress test it came out normal and they monitored me for 2 days and i had no more episodes the doctor wanted to see me for an echo he said it was normal also just very slight regurgitation in my mital and tricuspid valves but nothing mager my ejection fracton was 66% he said i have a very stong heart and everything was fine so he said go on with my life and dont worry so thats what i did its been a month now and yesterday it happened again so i went to the hospital again and they did an ekg and blood work and again nothing..i am so comfused i dont know why out of no ware these thing came.. i do suffer from severe panic disorder for the past 7 years but nothing like this has ever happened..i take zoloft xanax a baby asprin and nexium..i am so scared i am going to have a long run and my heart will stop ( sudden cardiac death ) this consumes my life now and im only 30 my doctor thinks its stress i just dont get how stress can make your heart act up..it is so scary can enyone give me some insite how to live with these and do they go away can i be pregnant with these..and also i dont know what i have is it pvc,pac,nsvt,svt v-tach i just dont get the difference and are these things deadly please help if you can i am so depressed and everyday i am waiting for my heart to stop..my mom just died 1 year ago from heart problems and i fear i will end up like her..thanks Gina
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Avatar universal
I have been in SVT for many hours at a time with no ill effects.  A brief run is absolutely nothing to worry about.  :)
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Avatar universal
thanks all. I just find it weird that the running seems to take them away...obviously I am happy its not the other way around, where you get them MORE when you exercise.

Anyone think my body might be taking some time to adjust to NOT being on the cardizem...I think that is a possibility.

As for the supplements...I hear all of your points and they are very valid. I DO NOT take a number of other supplements because they are not proven to work. MANY folks over on the A-Fib board swear by this system and it has research backing it up...but it might be that. I was taking CoQ10 and Mag before...so maybe its the Carnitine or Ribose??? Not sure.

Is there any evidence of these NSVT runs becoming serious in anyone on this board or someone they know? It seems to be the contrary...but still bothers me.

Again, thanks everyone...this board is a great resource.
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Avatar universal
weird enough.
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Avatar universal
I agree with all the other answers I have read just before mine.  I take Hyzaar which is a combination blood pressure lowering and fluid pill and I also take cardizem in the form of taztia 120 mg. per day.  Every cardiologist seems to agree that these are great combinations of meds to protect the heart and to lessen the amount of these things.  It has worked for me a long time. I agree that you may need to go back on the cardizem  since it, or a beta blocker will offer protection for the heart duing the times when you are having  runs.  Do you have high blood pressure?  When it goes up suddenly the heart reacts and may increase pvcs and pacs.  Known triggers for them , the pvcs and pacs are  stress, alcohol, chocolate, caffiene, herbal supplements, over the counter meds, etc.  Also being dehydrated can cause them even to the point of a-fib.  Think about whether you are somehow getting some of these things in your diet.  Please don't do all these supplements on your own.   A healthy diet and the Dr. are better and more certain.   I know how desperate they can make you feel, but your doctor has seen thousands just like us and really does know how something will work once we take it. Lots of folks won't give up the coffee or the alcohol or the chocolate because they feel that a little won't hurt.  Until  these things get better and the stress improves, I would put them aside and I hope that you feel much better.  I am sure that you will.  Just let your Dr. do the prescribing and let us know how the 30 day monitor  turns out.  I'm sure all of us as well as I will be here with you waiting it out.  I'll bet that one day soon you realize they are gone.  Tell me about the cardizem making you worse? What did your Dr. say about that .  Have yo tried a beta blocker?  Are you on any meds for your blood pressure and is it normal?


lanakaye

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216258 tn?1189755827
Don't let PVC's run your life , as Often well said.. They are nothing....
I repait NOTHING.

Running for 30 minutes helps you said....so why don't you run every day?
Why don't you run more?
Or dance or what ever?  
Be glad you have a HEALTHY HEART!!

Repait it every day I have a healthy heart !!!! as many times as you need.

I run with REAL heart problem  50 minutes a day, about 5 kilometers .now working on to go it up to 10 kilometers per day.......and much older then you are........

I am sure many of these   PVC  women would need some good  hobby instead of their own  problem The PVC... it is a awful....you really can't see?

A garden, pets, a new lover as for one of you a cardiologist suggested  ..now that was a good one !:):):)  
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84483 tn?1289937937
Be very careful with supplements unless deficient in them and they are recommended by your dcotor, alot of the time they do more harm than good.Good luck.
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216614 tn?1195665072
Perhaps time to go off the "Sinatra" program and back on the cardizem? Or something different.  Your statement.."and started the Sinatra program (CoQ10, Magnesium, D-Ribose, and L Carnitine) on June 3rd. Since then I've had more heavy days than ever...and very few light days it seems." is kind of telling, don't you think?

I have no insight, since I no longer have to deal with this particular issue (tho given a choice I think I would rather that than what I do have to deal with). But I found that statement to jump out like a red flag.

I hope you can come to some kind of terms with the condition and not allow it to ruin your life, like so many seem to.
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116881 tn?1189755823
Me and you both. Everytime I try to tell myself its OK I get a new symptom.  I'll be wearing the 30 day monitor soon too.  I wish I had answers for you but  I struggle with it as well.  I was actually thinking about taking Inderal 10mg as needed because it is supposed to lessen feeling the skips.  Have you tried that?    
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