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Skipped Heart Beats (PVC's

Hello Doctor, I wanted to take a moment to thank you for hosting this forum, I've posted once before and have found it very informative and helpful, thank you!
I have a few questions concerning PVC's & PAC's. I have been evaluted by two different cardiologists with a battery of tests and everthing is normal, noted 1/2 apical ejection (flow) murmur only (28 year old male, 5' 11", 190LBS, athletic).
1. From what I understand now, PVC's & PAC's are not harmful, is either worse than the other? ie. more PVC's
2. Is the sensation of a skipped beat the result of an extra beat or is the sensation from the extra flow of blood resulting from a longer pause in the heart rythm?
3. If an individual is experiencing for example 1,000 PAC's/PVC's on a daily basis, does that signify an extra 1,000 beats? Wouldn't these extra beats over a span of an average life "tire" the heart muscle?
4. I notice in my resting pulse only (around 48-52BPM) that  sometimes after relaxing from either a work-out or just normal activity that a few beats are longer apart then others, however this is pattern is repeatitive, meaning the longer pause are not totally random but will repeat after the same number of beats per minute. My question is what's considered and irregular to regular pulse?
5. From your experience with past and present patients, have you seen any individuals experiencing PVC's/PAC's every go away entirely?
6. Are they the cause of some part of SA/NA node's deteriating?
7. Lastly on average, individuals with normal healthy hearts with benign PVC's/PAC's develop other serious conditions?
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Avatar universal
Dear alex,
1. From what I understand now, PVC's & PAC's are not harmful, is either worse than the other? ie. more PVC's
A: You are correct that in general PVCs and PACs are not harmful.  If one could be considered more potentially dangerous I suppose it would have to be PVCs, which if present in persons with heart disease may indicate the need for treatment.

2. Is the sensation of a skipped beat the result of an extra beat or is the sensation from the extra flow of blood resulting from a longer pause in the heart rythm?
A: The sensation is from the beat following the premature beat.  This is because following the premature beat there is a pause during which time the heart fills with additional blood.  The extra blood results in a stronger contraction and the sensation that many people have.

3. If an individual is experiencing for example 1,000 PAC's/PVC's on a daily basis, does that signify an extra 1,000 beats? Wouldn't these extra beats over a span of an average life "tire" the heart muscle?
A: No, they are not really "extra" beats but only "early" or premature beats coming slightly before the regular beat would have come.  When you have a PVC or PAC the regular beat is sppressed so the number of heart beats over the day is the same.


4. I notice in my resting pulse only (around 48-52BPM) that sometimes after relaxing from either a work-out or just normal activity that a few beats are longer apart then others, however this is pattern is repeatitive, meaning the longer pause are not totally random but will repeat after the same number of beats per minute. My question is what's considered and irregular to regular pulse?
A: This is normal and is called heart rate variability.  It is linked to your breathing and autonomic nervous system and is a sign of good heart health.

5. From your experience with past and present patients, have you seen any individuals experiencing PVC's/PAC's every go away entirely?
A: Usually they do not go away but over time many individuals stop noticing them.

6. Are they the cause of some part of SA/NA node's deteriating?
A: No.

7. Lastly on average, what percentage of individuals with normal healthy hearts and benign PVC's/PAC's develop other serious conditions?
A: This would be no different from the public in general.  There is no data that individuals with PVCs or PACs are at higher risk for developing serious health problems.
Helpful - 8
Avatar universal
I'd like to offer my experiences with PVCs. After several years of occasional PVCs (one here and there), I had a lengthy out of bronchitis, followed by PVCs (many thousands per day). It was incredibly debilitating and depressing, so I sympathize completely with the many posts I've been reading here. During the first week I was in the ER receiving fluids and magnesium shots. After the initial exams, including a treadmill stress test that was completely normal, I was told the PVCs were benign and given Atenelol (beta blocker). It made things worse. I felt dizzy and sick, and I hated the feeling that my heartbeat was being artificially altered. That's when I intensified my search for alternative treatments. It has been about a month, and I still have the PVCs, but they are lighter, and no longer dominating my life and keeping me awake at night. Honestly, they are still at times uncomfortable, but the improvement has been significant. This is what I am doing:

1. No caffeine or alcohol
2. Daily Supplements: 600 mg Magnesium Glycinate, 800 mg Vitamin E, CoQ 10 (100 mg) for heart function, EmergenC (1 packet after exercising; it is a great electrolyte replacement)
3. Smaller meals, especially in the evening. I try not to eat after 8 PM
4. I run 3 miles a day on the treadmill. The immediate benefit of running (or any true aerobic exercise) is that it slightly elevates my heartbeat for a few hours after running. This all but eliminates the PVCs, and as they gradually return, they are lighter. My gut feeling is that daily aerobic exercise (at least 30 minutes) is the most important factor for controlling benign PVCs.
5. Yoga 3-4 times per week.
6. Meditation: I use a CD to help with the process. I'm not doing this as much as I should, but when I do, the effects are noticeable.
7. If I'm  feeling anxious, or experiencing stronger PVCs at night, I take Five Flower Formula, a homeopathic remedy that is a natural stress reliever.
8. Finally, I try not to take my pulse constantly, an exercise that only seems to contribute to my stress level.

Since doing all this, I've experienced the following positive changes:

1. Frequency of PVCs is greatly reduced.
2. I can fall asleep easily, even with light PVCs.
3. I can once again sleep on my left side.
4. Resting heart rate is lower, which reduces the intensity of the PVCs.

Sorry for the long post. I hope this is helpful.

Mark
Helpful - 3
Avatar universal
What are considered worse?
premature atrial contractions or premature ventricular contractions?
is one considered more harmful then the other especially concerning exercise?
I tend to notice mine after excercise or say a heavy meal or when I have gas ect..I have found that eating very small meals has made a substantial difference.
Helpful - 3
Avatar universal
I was having palpitations and skipped beats and was put on Inderal which is a beta blocker.  The beta blocker made the PVC's worse for me, so I weaned myself off of it and am now taking a magnesium supplement.  My doctor recommended a 2:1 magnesium/calcium supplement.  I take 600 mg. magnesium and 300 mg. of calcium combined.  It has helped some although has not alleviated them all together.  I also found out through blood work after doing a 48 hr. holter moniter and an echo stress test, that I am hyperthyroid.  Both the echo stress test and holter moniter showed sinus tachycardia and skipped beats. If anyone has undiagnosed palpitations and hasn't been tested have your Dr. run a T4,T3, and TSH test on you.

-Valerie
Helpful - 1
Avatar universal
does anyone know if you can get the skipped beats from taking a beta blocker.  I started taking about four months ago, and I never had a problem with the skipping until now.  Also, will they go away once my body is used to the drug.  One more thing I lost about 25 pounds, does losing weight make anyone have these things.  Thanks
Helpful - 1
Avatar universal
Hi
I found this site so interesting and somewhat reassuring too.
I have suffered from sinus tachycardia for the past five years, in addition, two years ago I also started getting the "skipping" beats, or premature beats mentioned on this site.
I too have run the tests, EKG's, Talium tests, stress tests, etc etc.  Have a "fleshy" mitral valve with turbulence and take meds when having dental work done.
My skips occur when my heart rate is elevated (excet when excercising) - I have quit smoking, cut back on caffeine,started to drink plenty of water and have found that it has made the problems less frequent.  My episodes always seem to run with
1.  Hormonal patterns
2.  After particularly stressful times.
3.  In conjunction with eating

Has anyone made any correlation between the skipped beat sensation and peri menopause, or acid reflux?
Thanks
Deb
Helpful - 1
Avatar universal
I have had PVC's for about two years. They have been as bad as 1 skip out of every two almost daily. Nothing worked except amiodarone, which I feared would have long run bad side effects like liver problems. I did the following, don't know which did the trick but SOMETHING WORKED.
Lost about 7 lbs eating mostly veggies, since the byproducts they feed livestock can be the cause.
Since my cholesterol level was 255 the doc suggested I take flax seed and garlic. I bought flax seed oil at whole foods and use it with olive oil and seasonings to make my own dressing (NO MSG)
I mainly keep sweet potatoes handy; throw them in the microwave at work or home. The less hungry I am the less tempted I am to go to a fast food place. Now the skips which have plagued me for two years are practically gone and I live like a normal human being; no more dizzy spells or lethargy from zebeta, etc.
Helpful - 1
Avatar universal
Hi, everybody! I have dealt with pvc's for more than 30 years and I am still going strong! They are a pain in the a** but everything I've read ana dll the docs I've talked with are convinced it is no big deal. I was given toprol by my doctor to take occasionally when the pvc's interfere with my sleep. Any comments about this? I am a little anxious about taking any medication. I would rather just be annoyed. What about ablation? Sounds like a great remedy, but I have heard that things can go wrong. Any comments or advice? Thanks
Helpful - 1
Avatar universal
I was diagnosed with PVCs several years ago. I went through several recurring episodes, and after investigation was told they could be due to a slight prolapse of my mitral valve. After understanding what was happening, I relaxed and the episodes were less frequent. I continued to monitor myself and found that any occurence was only during PMS (I'm female). I thought it was due to the emotional stress that I felt at those times. But now that I'm 49 and quite sure I'm in peri-menopause, I'm having very frequent occurences again. But there seems to be a pattern with my monthly cycles, and I'm sure my hormones are surging and fluctuating. Has anyone (female) experienced PVCs during their cycles? I would be very interested in finding out if they have any relation to hormone levels.  Dusty111
Helpful - 1
Avatar universal
Hi! I just can't express the joy I am feeling at this very moment after learning that I am not alone! I have been bothered with PVCs and palps since the age of 13.  I am now 21 and still being annoyed daily by all the weird sensations.  Since I can't ever seem to post my question with the doc, I was wondering if someone might be able to PLEASE answer this question for me.  You see, not only do I get the funny feeling heart skips, but sometimes my heart feels like it completely stops for a brief second and I feel this wave of fear wash over my entire body.  I also feel this fluttering in my neck sometimes.  Has anyone else experienced the long pause followed by the wave or the fluttering in the neck??? I see my cardio doc once a year and everything looks normal. Also, God bless you all and keep your heads up!! I know it's tough, but we can get through this aggravating stuff if we all continue to help eachother.
Helpful - 1
Avatar universal
This is a very informaive exchange of comments and I wouldlike to aadd my own, After triple CABG and AVR (ST.Jude) in June 2000 I remained completely awareof every single heart beat. At first they were hard fast beats which the cardios said to ignore and that they would go away. They never did. About 6 months ago I started with missbeats and after an ER visit the diagnosis was - No arrhythmia but SINUS ARRHYTHMIA! Which according to Fred is nothing to wprry about. Echos revealed slight valve regugitation  - tricuspid and may be pulmonary. A 30 day monitor also revealed PACs/PVCs? but still the medical advice is to ignore these. But how can I when they awake me at 4am and its impossible to sleep after these episodes which have become quite frequent and are increasing in duration (1-3 hrs). The PACs/PVCs also seem to be highly related to what and when I eat particularly at dinner time. As a diabetic I monitor my blood glucose regularly and the missbeats also seem to be related to moderately low BG. I am on Coumadin and sleep tablets and sedatives also help but I cannot be on these forever. Would appreciate comments or advice from anyone with similar condition or can be contacted at ***@****
Thanks,
ChrisR
Helpful - 1
Avatar universal
Hi there Fred, thanks for the info, you sound like a Cardiologist yourself. If PVC's/PAC's are a predictor for sudden death, then wouldn't every single person be on "death row". I've been told that every single human being in this world gets PVC's/PAC's occasionally?  I'm wondering if the stress due to mild weight trainning and moderate physical acitivity over the last 15 years or so is a possibe underlying factor? Anyways, It also appears to get worse with time... PS. How old are you and did you actually have a Heart attack? Wouldn't a Echo & EKG confirm that?

Thanks, Alex.
Helpful - 1
Avatar universal
A related discussion, Skipped Heartbeat was started.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi Babycakes,

Your comments made me feel a lot better, because i'm also 21 and thought I was the only one with this feeling.  The thought really depressed me, but i feel so much better now.

Bill,
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi Babycakes,

Your comments made me feel a lot better, because i'm also 21 and thought I was the only one with this feeling.  The thought really depressed me, but i feel so much better now.

Bill,
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I am a 48 year old female who has suffered a heart attack on April 12 of this year..since then i have these **** pvc's daily...although not nearly as bad as i see some others have them...anyway.my heart attack was caused by a spasm and i have no blockage...very small amount of damage to the heart..and no heart disease...so does that mean i have a healthy heart? and am i going to drop over from these things? no one seems concerned and they scare the hell out of me...i thought they were from eating because it seems that's when i get them the most..but everyone tells me food has nothing to do with it..was on a holter monitor for 24 hours last weekend and was told it was normal..even though i had them for hours and they were pounding ones..i don't get it...i go to cardiac rehab three times a week and they don't seem to have a problem keeping me working out while i'm having a pvc..so..i want to believe they are harmless...i want to believe that more than anything...then maybe i could go on without being afraid every day.thanks for listening...
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I too, have appreciated all the comments. I just started getting PVCs over the past six months, and was also tested and reassured. (I am a 41 y/o F, in good general health, perfect weight, who typically gets a slightly under average amount of exercise.) I will have several days or weeks with almost constant activitiy (10-15/mn) and then I'll have days or weeks of "rest." It concerned me at first, but I was reassured by research and my physician, so now it is more annoying than anything.  My physician suggested moderate exercise on a regular basis would be good, as would avoiding any triggers (such as caffeine).

For me, the best way to deal with it is to not focus on it. When I wake up in the morning and feel the first flutters, I have two choices,  (1) to attend to the feeling, or (2) to put my mind on other things. I know my life is in God's hands, so I choose option 2. (This isn't always as easy as it may sound. The PVCs make me cough, and sometimes it feels like somebody is inside my chest poking me every couple seconds, making it physically hard to concentrate on other things.) Of course I also try to take care of myself and do the things I know are important (exercise, avoiding triggers, seeking medical advice), but as for wether or not they will shorten my life, or cause me more serious problems, since that is unknown medically, I decided to put that in God's hands and focus my energies on loving and serving others. The times I do that successfully (whether I have symptoms or not) are the times that I feel best.

As for the individual whose office was in the WTC, clearly you have been under an inordinate amount of stress in the past year. It is not surprising that you are having symptoms. Too often we believe that we are invincible in this country - that we can get hit with so much and still be okay. But that's not true. Be good to yourself and take the time you need to heal.



Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I have had fluttering beats my whole life.. now I am 48 menopause
for 8 years.. the fluttering has gotten worse lately, especially after eating or laying on my left side at times. I have worn the halter monitor  and nothing really showed up. I am scheduled for an echostress test in July.. this feeling is quite bothersome and i can feel it in the center of my chest and sometimes in the abdominal area.. anyone experience this??
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi John,
I am new to this forum.  I have been reading it for about a month now because I to suffer from PVC's.  What a nightmare when I get them.  It was touching reading your comments.  You have really gone through a lot.  I feel for you. I can tell you that I have had this condition for over 20 years and I am still here!  If that is any help for you.  I get periods of Pvc's where I will not go out or go to the gym.  I even left work early because of them.  I have tried beta blockers but they seem to make them worse!  I also have SVT where my heart races all of a sudden up 180 bpm but only during the night.  It wakes me up and I am terrified.  I can take a beta blocker which works for this but it makes the pvc's worse during the day.  Not very good luck for me in this area.  Had all the tests. Just trying to deal with it all.  God BLess and Good Luck.
***@****
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi Mark! Thanks a million for the info---I am going to check that website out. I think the resounding message here seems to be that stress plays a significant role in the management of these things. It's interesting that you had the PVCs following a bout of bronchitis. My mom who is an E.R. (and flight) nurse, says that PVCs are very typical with "lungers". I tend to have a lot of respiritory stuff (chronic bronchitis, pneumonia, etc). As for the beta blockers---I didn't get any relief with the Atenolol, but I've had great results with the Nadolol. I think my case is a bit different in that the beta blocker prevents me from having the SVT (without it, my resting h.r. is around 130-- going up to around 200 during a run of SVT---not fun!)I was exhausted all the time. My h.r. is normal now-- 70's, and I feel a lot better. When I work out, my h.r. stays right around 135 or so (I'm guessing it's due to the beta blocker). When I broached the wine issue with my cardiologist, he said "Yeah, some people are just more sensitive to it (alcohol) than others"...THANKS! I noticed that the wine had a "delayed" effect in that I didn't have any problems until about 6 hrs. after my last drink. You could just about set your watch to it---Bizzare! Then I would actually wake up with a racing heart and PVCs that would last about an hour or so. The more I had to drink, the worse it was. Finally, I decided that it wasn't worth it, and now I limit it to an occassional drink (1 or 2 glasses a month). It would be interesting to know if others have had similar experiences. Thanks for all the info!!! Let me know how it goes! ~Tracey
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi jenilyn ....Batesville here. And yes I have those mornings too. Wake up feeling good and some days as soon as I sit up on the edge of the bed.....BAM. Aint much scares me but those things do. Also take Magnesium and Calcium and Zinc supplement. No change. For some I hear it works. May go to a speacialist in Memphis. If ever in yahoo chat look me up to talk about different docs in Ar. that might help......chat name and e- mail is  ***@****......
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Thanks so much for taking the time to reassure me!!! Maybe I can help alleviate some of your fears of becoming pregnant---I was taking Atenolol during my first and second pregnancies and I was fine all through both of them. I started to have problems with my third, but they really were confined to the first trimester---I think it had a lot to do with the "hormonal surge" when you become pregnant. Other than that and the "run" I had when 5 months pregnant with my last (there is also a big hormone fluctuation at that point), it was nothing worse than what I usually experience--MAYBE even less. When I'd have the occassional bout with these, I'd try to focus on the pregnancy and the little one in there, and it did seem to help. If you have any questions about any of this, you can e-mail me at: ***@**** Good luck to you!!! ~Tracey
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I have had PVCs daily, for about two months, beginning after a lengthy  bout with bronchitis. They were so intense, I ended up in the ER where I received IV treatment including a gram of Magnesium and two bags of electrolytes. It turns out I was dehydrated from being sick. After going through the EKGs and Treadmill Stress test (all negative), I decided to focus on natural treatment. A short stint with Atenelol made me feel much worse, and I decided that beta blockers were not for me.

Thirty minutes of aerobic exercise(getting your heart rate up to the target zone is critical) each day, and supplements (Magnesium 400 mg, CO Q10 90 mg, Vitamin E 800 IU, and a Multi-Vitamin/Mineral), and daily meditation (very important) have allowed me to "function" without obsessing over the PVCs. At times I have them every three beats, but there are periods where I don't notice them at all. Of course, I'd prefer not having them at all, but I'm optimistic that they will eventually subside.

As for the wine, it's interesting that for the past year, I would have an allergic reaction to certain wines (white or red). After a couple sips, my face would turn red and itchy, to the point I would have to hold an icy washcloth to my face for relief. If I stopped drinking the wine, the symptoms would gradually subside in about an hour. Since having the PVCs, I've stopped drinking completely (not easy for a former wine importer). Now, I'm wondering if the first reaction was somehow related to the eventual onset of PVCs. It so happens that I had 3 or 4 glasses of wine the night before my PVCs really kicked in.

For an interesting take on alternative treatment, check out Dr. Walt Stoll's site (http://askwaltstollmd.com/relax.html) on Skilled Relaxation. This is not a dramatic, immediate cure, but I think it is worth the effort for anyone suffering from PVCs or similar heartbeat irregularities. Stress plays a major role in the effects and intensity of PVC episodes, and the time spent perfecting meditation techniques is certainly worthwhile.

Best of luck,

Mark
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Thanks for the tip on exercizing! It's great to know that all the trips to the gym might actually help the PVCs too! I am going to try the magnesium thing as well--how much is a good starting point? I'm not a big red meat eater, but I do notice something when I have red meat (always thought it was the red wine I had with it!!!) Ha ha! Speaking of... has anyone noticed more of these after having a glass or two of wine? That's when I seem to get the SVT followed by the PVCs. Someone mentioned something about the sulfites possibly aggravating the condition. Any word on that?
Helpful - 0

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