body systems

[mqadir]

when do the process of dying begin when body systems fail

[RadioAstronomyObserver]

looking back, we kind-of changed the topic.  I found the Medhelp social forum for off topic discussions.

Hopefully Mqadir will respond with more information about his question.

[ed34]

great topic this for people with heart disease lol

[ireneo]

That's one way we check for death after euthanizing an animal but that's really dead, not just brain dead.

[ed34]

Thanks, my eyes are watering now with the thought of that :(

[RadioAstronomyObserver]

My brother-in-law is setup to donate any needed organ.  However there must be a test performed before hand.  I don't know anything about this but I think he mentioned using a needle in the eye and if there is no reaction then the organs can be taken.  This is in the US and I have no idea if this is available in other countries.

[ed34]

If you mean, how long does the brain take to die when no oxygen is available, the average I believe is about 3 minutes. However, this can be prolongued with lowered temperatures such as victims who have drown in a very cold river or lake. I think I read someone was revived 20 minutes later. When on life support, and a specialist pronounces the patient as brain dead, they are not alive anyway (not in reality).

I know this is a bit off topic, but in the UK when a patient donates organs, they are removed one by one and the heart is removed last so blood still supplys the organs as they are removed. It is pretty well known in the medical circle, but not so much in the public, that the brain does still react to the pain. Instrument have often detected reactions in a body as the scalpel starts work. High blood pressure and other readings are observed. If a patient is brain dead, I can't help but wonder why this would occur.
It is also a law in the UK and Canada that no anaesthetic can be used before removing the organs. If anaesthetic is used, then the patient 'needing' anaesthetic means they cannot be dead. So you can't make sure they feel nothing.
Maybe the body is just reacting to stimuli, but there is still so much unknown on this topic. There have even been rare occassions where brain death has been declared but they have recovered. It scares me to even be thinking about it.

[ireneo]

Perhaps you're referring to a slow death by disease. I'm not sure there's a specific point where you can say a person is "dying." If a person has an incurable disease and there's no chance for improvement, then I'd guess you could say the person is dying. S/he may die in a day or in 6 months. It's not a matter of time, it's a matter of whether the body can heal and recover vs. continuing failure of organs.

My Dad was told he was dying from congestive heart failure. His heart was getting worse in terms of function. They even put him on hospice care believing he would not last another 6 months. Some how the medications he was taking stabilized his heart rhythm and function and he lived another 2 years. That was unusual and unexpected. After 4 heart attacks and several years of living with heart failure, they never thought his heart would pause in the downward spiral.

[ed34]

I really don't understand the question. I mean, if the heart stops for example, the circulatory system doesn't feed oxygen to any part of the body so death occurs quickly.
Is there anything more specific you are trying to ask?