echostress test

[Barbara]

After many years of heart skips, from bigeminys to whatever else they're called, I told my doctor I was finished--do something.  My cardiologist wanted to put me on flecanide to stop these, but first wanted an echostress to make sure everything is ok.  I guess these pills are pretty dangerous, right?  Now, if flecanide can stop pvc's, why isn't everyone on them?  I flunked my stress test.  My heart did bigeminys continually on the tread mill.  My cardiologist recommended a catherization.  I didn't eat or sleep for a month because of fear.  Well anyway I had it done and didn't have any blockages.  Can these pvc's hurt me now, and what is my next move?  Thank you.

[CCF-M.D.-MJM]

Hi Barbara,

Without knowing your whole story, it is probably safe to say the PVCs pose no danger to your overall physical health --but those aflicted with severe PVCs know they wreck havock on the way you feel.  Unfortunately there is no easy fix either.

Beta blockers can help decrease the sensation of the PVC (the power of the beat) but usually does not decrease the frequency.

Sodium channel blockers like flecainide may decrease the frequency of PVCs but in the presense of coronary artery disease are proven to increase the risk of mortality (the CAST study).  For people without coronary disease, flecainide is an option and may help.

If flecainide doesn't work or you don't want to use medications and you have very frequent PVCs, a PVC ablation may be an option.  You may not like this option given your hesitancy to have a left heart cath.

I hope this helps and good luck!

[Momto3]

Hi Barbara,

Boy, can I relate to your frustration.  I was in persistent bigeminy and all kinds of ventricular ectopics for a long time. Skipping ahead to more recent...I was prescribed flecainide and it helped a lot!!  It kind of wreaked havoc on my central nervous system (vivid, strange dreams, shakes and some other "nervous" type feelings), but I continued to take it for 3 months. I must tell you, it worked for the pvcs!! After a few months of taking it, I was switched to rhymthmol and found it to produce less side effects.  You may not have any side effects and I would suggest you work with your doctor and if he/she feels it is a good drug of choice, you may find great relief. Has the subject of ablation come up?  That's what I finally ended up with.

Oh, will you be monitored in the hospital if you decide to try the flecainide?  My doctor chose to keep me monitored for a few days while they started the medicine.  Good luck and hope you are feeling better.

connie

[tickertock]

why take a dangerous drug like flecainide even though it is deemed pretty safe in someone without coronary heart disease, it still carries risks for a condition though alarming and debilitating at times that is a benign condition. oh well i guess thats when you get into risks/ benefits discussion with your doc.

i was prescribed tambocor,same drug as flecainide once for pvcs and had the pharmacist tell me how dangerous it was. I wouldn't take and im glad i didn't, i wouldn't touch flecainide with a 10 foot pole. my personal opinion only!!!

[sunnygirl]

Where can we go to get this PVC ablation? I am at that point too, where I think...just DO something for God's sake, I'm sick of it!!

Being a somewhat creative person, I have two ideas for treating PVCs.

First, you might have heard of ketogenic diets helping people with seizures. To my way of thinking, seizures are simply the PVCs of the brain. If these ketogenic diets help stop seizures, could they help with the aberrant electrical pathways that cause palpitations?

Second, as a palliative treatment, would it be possible for some pharmaceutical to come up with a little daily anesthesia treatment for the heart, a little novocain so that we can't feel what's going on down there? After all, those of us who are told to ignore it and forget about it could use some help.

Well, someone tell me, would these things work?

Everyone have a nice palpitation-free, peace-filled day!

[Momto3]

I had pvc ablations in Cleveland, but not until they were so frequent so as to cause other problems.  My doctor did not entertain the notion until the pvcs became problematic.  I don't think most EPs are willing to attempt ablation unless you have exhausted other options and/or insist.  Even then, your doctor may not agree.  I think the procedure is still considered to be in infancy stages.  I would bet that most docs only consider ablation as kind of a last alternative.

As for chelation, I'm not sure.

As for novocaine, it would probably have to be epinephrine-free so as not to cause more problems.

Are you near Cleveland?  Have you considered a 2nd opinion at CCF?  How many pvcs are you having?  How symptomatic are you?  It sounds as though you are getting to the point of wanting more aggressive treatment. You might consider a second opinion at a major heart center.  I can tell you that although I had pvcs for years, doctors were not concerned until I developed a problem because of them.  That took years of pvcs and TONS of them daily.

Good luck and let us know how you're doing. We're here to support one another and this is a great place to vent and make friends who understand : )
Here's to a great pvc-free weekend!!
connie

[pms_barbie]

Well this is just my opinon but ablation helped me greatly.  I had gotten to the point of not doing anything including getting out of bed.  I had my ablation last August  and it seems my pvcs get less and less every month.  No more bigeminy.  My ablation was done at the Cleveland clinic by Dr Burkhardt.  I am back to driving Im not afraid to be alone any more.  Plus I can sleep through the night now.  Dr Burkhardt well never know how grateful I am for what he done for me.  I was on klonopin because my nerves were so bad.  This Sunday will be two weeks that I havnt taken any Klonopin.  I had taken it for a year.  I have had some withdrawls but even those are not as bad as it was back in the pvc days.lol  Bottom line for me is this......dont even consider ablation for occasional pvcs but if they are causing symptoms and you have a lot of them.Then by all means look into it.  I dont know where I would be today if I hadnt had one.  Most likely a mental ward.lol I actually got over being a chronic pulse feeler to.  I wish everyone here happy heart days

[sunnygirl]

Thank you Connie and PMS Barbie (great name!) Your stories are inspiring. I am so happy for you! I want all PVC patients to get relief. In my work, I see medical records of hundreds of patients and it seems to me that more people are experiencing palpitatons than ever before and I wonder if anyone is tracking this, and also why it is happening. Well thank goodness PVC ablation has begun, maybe techniques will improve, it will become more widespread and someday there will be a complete and total cure.

Take care,

Sunny

PS: If an CCF-MD reads this, can you tell me if an antiseizure med would work on palpitations, because don't they quiet electrical storms of the brain? And aren't palpitations kind of electrical storms in the heart?

[Barbara]

Thank you all for responding.  Yes, I still have bigeminys every day.  I must say since my catherization, some of the fear has left me when they happen.  I go to Hershey Medical Center in Pennsylvania, which is a pretty up to date teaching hospital.  They do not recommend ablation for pvc's.

[PikaPika88]

My Dr prescribe Flecainide & Digoxin together for me.  I think is because I refuse to continue taking Atenolol.  After I've taken Atenolol, palpitation seems more often. My liver and kidney is sore.  Have been proved by 2 Drs my liver is still very weak.  I wonder if you leave the palpitations continue (do not take medications), do they damage the heart muscle stronger & wider?  Would the heart going worse?  How do you tell the Dr. reason for not taking the medication because .......?  I'm still holding my prescription without taken any yet.  I'm lost and do not know what to do with those prescription.  Heart has damaged.  Want to damage the liver and kidneys as well? I wish to share some experience with you all and hopefully you all can share the feeling with me.  I'm happy to provide more medical details to you all.  Just my story is too long and too complicated, it'll take a long time to write and for you all to read.  Just ask and I'll answer your question. Thank you. I hope you all get well and wouldn't thought too much like me.
Pika.

[bronzed aussie]

Here in Australia, or where I am at least, in Perth. My Dr has suggested ablation straight up! I'v just returned my eco monitor last Friday and am seeing my Dr sometime this week to check out the results. I get pvc's quite often, and most of the time I try to laugh it off.
I know that sounds stupid but it works for me. Dr seems to think that ablation it's a simple proccedure and with really great results.

[sunnygirl]

Well if you do the ablation, keep us posted and let us know how it goes...and I hope it goes well!! I remember reading last year that they are doing PVC ablations in Thailand. A couple of us on here were joking about taking an ablation vacation...

PS: Laughing seems about as good a coping mechanism as any! At least it releases endorphins, right?

[Jeff-67]

My understanding is that it is unusual for an EP to do an ablation for PVCs if you have a structurally normal heart unless you are getting quite a few of them per hour for most hours of the day (ablation does carry some risk). Do you have any other problems or do you know how many you get per day? The other reason, if everything else is normal, would be if you get other types of arrythmias besides the PVCs.

[momof6]

Hi,
You had stated on a previous thread that you get pvcs and pacs and run of eratic beats you havent been able to catch.Wanted to respond to that but the thread closed,hope it is ok to do it here.Anyway I have had the same thing also,and have not been able to catch it either!Very fustrating to say the least.I can cope with a average pvcs thats what I get most of around 50 or so on a light day that they have caught on 24hr monitor.I have also worn a event monitor too,they never gave me a break down report of that just said all was normal.But I never had one of those eratic beat episodes.Ive never had it happen away from home either until the other day when I was out shopping with two of my children.Very scarey to be away from home and have it come out of the blue!!Do you take any meds? I take Lorpressor-150ml in the morning and 100ml. at night and norvasc 5ml once a day and a small dosage of a diuretic they put me on after one of my children and decided to leave me on it due to mild high blood pressure and then in the last year started taking magneisium(sp) and potassium.I do know the other day when that episode happened I hadnt drank very much water that day  but had a couple of caff.free sodas and I had missed several days of my potassium,Im wondering if maybe I was a little dehydrated and a little low on my potassium.As soon as I got home I downed several water bottles and took my potassium and Lorpressor that was due and my heart beat very smoothly the rest of the night.I have heard that when you are on beta blockers you need to stay very well hydrated.I want to believe that is what caused it and will plan on staying well hydrated this summer and take my meds on time!Sometimes I think that if those episodes lasted more than just a few seconds it would do me in!And I wonder if my Lorpressor is what keeps it short,I never let that med run out!!I dont get dizzy or anything either like you,it just happens fast and then leaves me all shooked up.There is a risk with a EP test too,and they have never offered me one either.I just want someone to tell me it wont get worse and those episodes are not dangereous.God Bless you and hope we can get answers.
~momof6

[Jeff-67]

momof6,

I am not on heart meds.  I have tried many different beta blockers but none of them made my arrythmias any better - some made them worse, which my doctor could not understand as he believed this was not possible with a beta blocker (on a side note, I find it interesting that when drug companies do their studies they seem to overlook or understate these adverse findings). I am on Zoloft which has helped with my general state of mind about my heart (I was recently diagnosed with OCD related to my focus on my heart - I guess that is what you get after 20 years of worry!).

It would be good to know what these "burst" episodes are. For me they do not always feel the same.  I have been fighting off a cold over the last two weeks and with that I have added a new type of "burst" to my portfolio.  One night I suddenly woke from sleep and could feel a vibration in my chest. I knew it was my heart so I checked my pulse at my neck. I could not feel a pulse and then a second or so later the vibration stopped and my pulse returned. I wonder what that was???

It was good to share experiences with you.  Like I said on that post of mine that you referred too, it would be good if they had a chat room on this site so that you could talk more with people that have something in common with you and support each other.

jeff-67 (father of 2 young girls)

[momof6]

Hi Jeff,
Its wonderful that you are not on any meds.Im afraid to stop taking them.I dont know if you can get addicted to a betablocker but if I do run out my heart beats faster and makes me feel out of breath.This has only happend a few times in the last nine years that Ive been dealing with pvcs,but sometimes I wonder if its just my nerves,the brain is very persuasive.Ive also woken up out of a sleep with what I thought was a left side spasm I was having but when I rolled over I felt it more in the center of my chest,checked pulse in my neck and my heart was beating very fast.Once I sat up it stopped.I geuss if we have had our hearts checked out and all is ok,what can we do!But trust them.Mine always seems to come in different patterns too.It probably wouldnt do any good to get them all labled because we would just develope new ones.One thing is for sure it can be crippling and cause one to stop living:( Please dont let that happen.As crazy as it may seem my husband and I want more children,pregnancy is like nine months of hiking!!But I dont want the fear to control me!I do hate fear it makes the whole body sick!Press on Jeff and focus on what is really important to you in your life,and then when the heart throws out its burst of what ever take a deep breath and say to your self Ive lived thru this before and press on:)More easily said then done I know,but we have too!Hope you have a episode free week,month,year!!God Bless~momof6

[TSG]

I'm curious.  I started up with PVC's about 6 weeks ago...have been to the hospital and cardiologist 4 times.  They have all said everything's ok and not to worry.

My monitor said I had around 650 pvc's in a 24 hour period, but most were at night...so they have ordered a sleep study thinking it's related to a sleeping disorder.  ??

I am also reading about everyone having PVC's that are driving them crazy...how many are you having in a 24 hour period?  Mine averaged 1 every 2 minutes.  Is that less than most are experiencing?

Thanks

[Jeff-67]

Some people can have 10,000 + per day, so your number is pretty low and not unusual.

I get 99% of my ectopics at night also.  My cardiologist did find that interesting but did not pursue it in any way.

[upbeat63]

Hello, recently new to the forum, but saw your questions, and just to let you know, I've had two holters done, ten years ago one showed 450 PVCs per hour--every hour, and a holter recently showed 1220 per hour--every hour. While yours are much less, I'm sure they are just as scary and maddening. But hang in there, if everything else checks out fine, the best advice is to forget them. But as you will read, if you've been reading this forum, that's about the hardest thing to do!