pvcs?unable to sleep

[redwinger]

I am a 34 year old female, 5'3'' and about 40 lbs overweight. I had my first episode of heart "flutters" when I was 26. Cardiologist did a holter monitor and echo. Found nothing. Another episode of heart flutters with some mild SOB at age 31. GP found a heart murmur with no regurgitation. Bloodwork and stress echo found nothing. Now for the past 1 1/2 weeks I have been having many more flutters and a high heart rate. The high heart rate started about 4 months ago. resting is around 86 , but it usually spikes around 100-108, mainly when I am at rest. I have read others symptoms of PVCs on this forum and it sounds exactly like what I have experienced. I am losing sleep over this because I can constantly hear my heart beating and it feels like it's racing. Went to GP yesterday and he is sending me to a cardiologist who specializes in rhythms. He didn't give me anything to take to help me sleep. A pharmacist recommended I take some magnesium to slow my heart rate. I took 400mg last night and slept a little better, though I think it was psychosomatic. Now this morning, I feel a little faint. I had to pull over and let my husband drive to work because I just felt light headed. I ate a modest breakfast and am now at work, which fotunately is in a hospital. I still feel somewhat light headed and just general weakness. My question is, does this sound like anything major? I have had cardiac enzymes done that show no signs of past heart attacks. Of course all tests have come back completely normal. Was it a mistake to take the Mg? Or could it be from lack of more than 4 hours of sleep

[CCF-M.D.-MJM]

Hello,

These are common symptoms of people that have PVCs.  The majority of people notice PVCs but they aren't frequent enough to cause any alarm.  When I did my residency there was a cardiologist who told his patients that "you aren't cursed because you have PVCs, you are cursed because you feel them."  What he means is they do not suggest a worse prognosis, but some people feel them more than others and it can affect their quality of life.  It does not sound like you have anything to worry about.  Magnessium in regualr doses should not have any affect on your rhythm (unless your levels are very low).  lack of sleep can make some people feel exactly as you describe and sleep deprivation can be a trigger of pvcs.  I know it is a catch 22 -- you get more if you don't sleep but they keep you from sleeping.  I do my best to avoid the use of antiarrhythmic medications for PVCs, but if you are truly symptomatic, flecainide or propafenone may help.

I hope this answers your questions.  Good luck and thanks for posting.

[mnjohn]

Hey guysm not to get off track, but i had a question. For the second time, i was running, and when i got to a certain point, my heart went nuts, i mean like it was beating at a high pace, because i was doing cardio, but every third beat was a skip, or a different beat. This happened for about 15-20 seconds, just as it did last time, and it went away as my heart rate dropped. I do cardio all week and this has happened only twice. But i have PVCs everyday. Have had all normal tests also. Can anyone relate???

[momto3girls]

Boy are you in good company (:  I hate, hate, hate pac's and pvc's!  They are just plain nasty little annoyances, aren't they?  That's what you need to remember...they're just annoyances!  It's so funny, I'll think I have a really good handle on them (of course it's when I haven't felt one in a while) and them BAM, they come on and my chest feels like a frightened butterfly is flapping around furiously, trying to get out.  It is an extremely un-nerving feeling and I fully empathize with you. But I've had all the good tests and my heart is structurally normal so I guess that's something!

I've not noticed any food/alcohol triggers but definitely if I'm upset, they come on in full force.  Ditto on the lack of sleep.  That seems to be a nasty little trigger too.  Try to hang in there with the best of us (:  Take care and best wishes.

Al,

I'm so sorry to bug you again but I have a rather strange thing going on with me...I've had migraines nearly everyday for the last week which are worse when I first wake up in the morning.  Now, here's the strange part...sometimes when I get the chest squeezing, I feel my headache intesify for a second and then it's fine.  Does that sound strange to you at all?  I remember you had migraines and ended up in the ER with a minor stroke and was curious about what I'm feeling.  Tylenol helps and takes most of it away during the day.  I hope you're doing well.  Take care (:

momto3girls

[dquenzer]

I had the same thing years back.  I asked the doctor for something to help me sleep.  I recommend the same.  I took a mild sedative to help relax me and help me sleep.  It worked.  

The less sleep you get the worse they get.  So you need rest to let your body relax.

[redwinger]

Thanks everyone for your comments! This site has really helped calm me down. I guess I am so against the idea that anxiety could be causing these symptoms as I don't usually consider myself an anxious person, but I guess life in general is very stressful and can build up. I am seeing the cardiologist on the 24th and hopefully will find out that everything is ok and he  can give me something that will help with these rhythms. I am not going to take anymore supplements unless my bloodwork comes back weird. I am going to really try and relax and get enough sleep. Again, thanks for all the valuable info you all give on this site. It is a great place to go when I feel anxious about my symptoms.

[woodruff]

"... I guess I am so against the idea that anxiety could be causing these symptoms as I don't usually consider myself an anxious person"

redwinger, I'm not at all sure that anxiety causes my symptoms--but I do know that it makes them worse!

After reading a lot of posts about pvcs here, I have a sneaking suspicion that those of us who have them (or perceive them, since everyone has them sometime) are just born with more reactive or vigilant nervous systems. Perhaps that's not, you know, "anxiety" as most people think of it, but it's in the spectrum.

[yoshi74]

I just wanted to let everyone know that there is a fairly new water out on the market that is called Smart Water...and it is vapor distilled and is loaded with electrolytes...! It is plain water but very clean tasting and very good for you. It is supposed to hydrate you faster than regular water as well. A lot of times we are dehydrated or our electrolyte balance is off and that is a cause for PVC's/PAC's...I am 32 and have been suffering from these dang things since I was 18. I have been drinking this water for a few months now and I notice a difference. Now that is not to say that it helps EVERY time..because I have still had many episodes...but if you feel that being dehydrated or if you feel metabolicly imbalanced at all...this water is MUCH better than Gatorade or Powerade because it doesn't have all of that sugar....I hope this helps a little...God Bless Everyone...

[momto3girls]

Thanks Al.  I just looked up patent foramen ovale...interesting reading but it said that is doesn't normally cause symptoms.  They only look into it if you've a TIA.  Geez, I'd like to think I didn't have a mini-stroke for the last couple of days (:  

Ice-pick migraines, OK that's the perfect name.  It sure as heck feels like something sharp is puncturing my head above my eye.  Good stuff!  I immediately thought of a vasospasm myself, which I hear is exceedingly hard to diagnose.  I was wondering if the 2 were related.  I should clarify that it's not everytime I have a bad headache and my chest squeezes, do I feel an intesification of the headache.  Just noticed it is occassional.  

Boy, you poor thing, you've really gone through so much.  I'm guessing you won't want to be going off of Plavix again (:  I'm happy to hear though that your migraines are at least manageable.  When I get a full blown migraine, I wish I could just rip my head off.  Thanks for always being willing to answer questions.  You are a great asset to the heart forum!  Best wishes as usual (:

momto3girls

[anacyde]

Hi there.  If indeed you are having PVCs, I can sympathize with how unpleasant and worrisome they can be.  I hope you get some answers and find relief soon.  

I'd caution you against the magnesium though, unless you're under a doctor's supervision and have proof that you have some magnesium deficiency that would be causing your arrhythmia - if that is what you are experiencing.  Supplementing on your own can be dangerous.

[redwinger]

Thank you for advice. I only took the Mg once and I won't be taking it again. Now the hard part is waiting for the 1st available drs. appt.

[dafan]

You are right... lack of sleep can cause a variety of problems. Hang in there i had pvc's on the order of 5 to6 a minute a couple years ago.. now im 52... They do wax and wane over time, but i feel that when the rythm dr prescribed me Toprol XL 25mg... that it has really helped... altho not sure ... let me say that the other morning i had them pretty frequently for a couple of hours... but as a whole ... now i only have on the order of 10 a a day... again down from 5 to 6  a minute all day long. So,,,, there is hope...ps.... when i was having them so frequently.. it was the darkest days of my life....

[woodruff]

If your heart has passed its exams, and pvcs are the current state of being (it helps to think of them this way, because wishing and hoping to goodness they will go away makes you more aware of them), then the trick is to find a way to make them less audible.

In my own experience, they are related to an anxious state (no idea of whether it's chicken or egg).   Panic or anxiety makes them more audible and noticeable, and when I am less anxious, my awareness of them fades, and--perhaps it's connected--they also become less frequent.  The faintness goes away, too.

You could see a counselor and talk about some relaxation therapy (meditation, hypnosis, etc), which will help quite a bit on its own.  My own episodes of pvcs tend to go on for weeks or months, and I have found a couple of SSRIs that just shorten the whole business rather amazingly.  You'd want to talk to a psychiatrist about this approach, because he/she would be more familiar with these medications, and, of course, could prescribe.  Several of the SSRIs are sedating, and I find that excellent nighttime sleep is the result.  It does take a little experimenting and time to find the right drug, though.

[Fran71]

Hi there,
I can sympathize with you! PVCs can drive you crazy. I agree with others that a beta blocker can help. I'm on Inderal, which except for rare instances almost totally eliminates the PVCs for me, and makes the remaining palpitations less noticeable. My PVCs are related to oversensitivity to catecolamines, like adrenaline, and I usually get them together with sinus tachycardia. My cardio explained to me that in my case the 2 are triggered by the same mechanism. It gets terrible after meals. Taking the BB before a meal can really make a big difference for me.
If it's fine with your cardiologist, I would go for the BB right away! You can come off the med at any time if you feel better - of course if your cardio agrees...

Good luck

[woodruff]

There is a link, recently in the health sections of the newspapers, dontcha love it, between patent foramen ovale and strokes or mini-strokes.  Egads, like we didn't have enough to worry about, but here's a solid reference:

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic1766.htm

[momto3girls]

Hi there,

I just read the article you posted...interesting stuff.  I get the general impression that patent foramen ovale usually doesn't cause symptoms?  It seems like the link is with stroke/TIA.  People who stroke tend to be checked for this abnormal structure to the heart, right?  

I wonder why a regular echo wouldn't show it.  That's strange to me.  Would a 3d heart scan show it?  Weird.  The heart is such an amazing organ, isn't it?  Why can't it just beat perfectly forever and forever?!?!?  Take care (:

[woodruff]

Judging from what I've read, people with patent foramena usually do not have symptoms, though strokes and migraines too are connected with it:

http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic2494.htm

However, I actually knew one woman who had a perfectly normal life up to her late thirties, when she gained quite a bit of weight and, at the same time, started having trouble going up stairs that had never before given her trouble.  This shortness of breath got worse very rapidly, and when she was evaluated by a cardiologist, he determined that she had probably had a patent foramen all her life, and that the combination of weight gain and simple aging seemed to have caused the hole to enlarge suddenly, giving her symptoms.

She had a surgical repair, and is fine now.

[Fran71]

Hi there,
I think you shouldn't worry too much about your headaches and stroke. Stroke in younger people are extremely rare!
Does your migraine begin with visual disturbances? PFO is connected to migraine with aura, i.e. visual disturbance. If you don't, I think that would rule out PFO as the cause. I don't think that if you were having a stroke you would also have chest pain with the headache anyway.

Of course talk with your doctor if you need some reassurance. But I wouldn't be too worried...just my 2 sense.

PFO can be diagnosed with echo, with saline contrast.
Good luck

[jmike1_]

Thanks for your question to Al - doesn't he always have good info/advice.  He's done so much research he really should become a cardiologist!  Anyway, I've been getting severe headaches (not sure if they're migraines - never had one for sure) for the past several weeks myself.  I think I've gotten somewhat "immune" to the severity of headaches based on the large amounts of nitro I've taken over the past 6 months.  My family has also noticed that at times the veins along the side of my forehead REALLY stick out, and that is a fairly new phenomenon.  Don't know if the two are related or not.  I guess if nothing else, it gives them a new spot to put in an IV if I have to go back in :)  Take care, and hope your migraines go away soon.

[dafan]

Fred, I am so glad to hear that you had a successful ablation. Ive been with you on the board for almost 3 yrs now... For me... I suppose that Beta Blockers have been the answer... so far.... But i just wanted to congratulate you on the peace that you are now enjoying.... and that perhaps you have received an answer... i know... ive been there and back too.... Good luck keep up posting.... dafan

[suzzie1]

Hi, I read your detailed description of the lead up to, and subsequent ablation you had recently. I am glad to see that after what youve been through you are getting good results...but boy what an experience!! Seriously 'dodgy' treatment(by so called professionals) and procedure. I have been informed by my cardio I need to have an ablation soon. To be honest having read what you experienced I have pretty much made my mind up NOT to have  it done. I hope your health continues to improve. 8)

[tickertock]

Fred, just want you know I'm happy to hear your ablation for PVCs from what you have written appears to be successful, hope everything continues to go well for you and you're rid of the pain these things caused you for once and for all. Take care and continued Good luck.