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Fluttering heart

I have been having these fluttering sensations; right where my heart is; under the left breast.  I have had them off and on for sometime now, and it is worrying me to death.  I had a holter monitor on; the doctor said they were PVC's, and everyone has them.  They may, but I have been having them like everyday now; sometimes 6 or 7 times a day.  No shortness of breath or anything, just the weird sensation.  Any ideas??
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Avatar_f_tn
I recently went for an ecko cardiogram. For a physical exam. I was asked not fo take my atenolol for 48 hours prior. Then the ecko was posponed and they asked me not to take atenolol till I had ehko. Well my heart felt like it was jumping or skipping or stopping at points. It was very scarry. Well I finally got the exam and the cardiologyst said I had a valvue that was not closing completely every third beat he said it was normal . And that I shoud go back on atenolol because that helps you not to be aware of this symptom, it was not a great issue but they had to take me off of it while they did the ecko because it would interfear with the drug they give you for the echo. I don't know if you take any blood pressure but thats the one that works for me. Good Luck cat33
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Avatar_n_tn
hi buys, im a twenty year old female and for the past few years ive been having fainting episodes during basketball matches.  It has only happened in matches and not training which suggests to me perhaps adrenaline has a part to play or maybe im over exerting myself. I train a few times a week and also do horse riding so im fit enough.  What generally happens is, I get a fluttering or vibration feeling in my mid chest, get dizzy and black out, this generally doesn’t happen mid sprint but just after I stop running, I can then feel the fluttering converting back into a beat a minute or two later. Ive been to the hospital about it, had ECGs, EEG, 24 hr holt, Echo, two stress tests, MRI, tilt table, all inconclusive, and I now have a loop recorder in my left shoulder for the past two months.  I tried to bring on an episode while running but was unsuccessful but I started back at basketball this year and it happened again last week during out first match.  Its not stress related as I love the game, wasn’t nervous and also it was the end of the match and we were way up with points so there wasn’t much pressure on but I felt the flutter again, had to be subbed off and sit down.  I activated the recorder so hopefully now we can find out what the cause is but my next consultation isn’t until January.  Does anyone have any idea what this could be and should I continue playing basketball in the meantime?  During the vibration feeling I tried to feel my pulse and felt nothing but didn’t totally black out, just was dizzy so maybe it was just a weak one…
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21064_tn?1309312333
Try not to worry about the flutters.  The anxiety over them is far more debilitating than the pvcs themselves.  As long as your doctor has determined that they are benign, you usually just have to figure out how to accept them.  That's the hard part. But, you can do it....we're here to help ; )

Try not to let the pvcs dictate your life.  Enjoy the day!  

connie



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Avatar_f_tn
Hi there,
6 or 7 pvcs per day is very few and probably less than your average person youd pass on the street. In studies where they've put holters on a sample of the 21% had more than 24 PVCs per day, 6% had more that 50 pvcs, 5% had more than 300, 4% had more than 500 and almost 3% had more than 1000 PVCs per day.
A recent study of 625 people  8.8% had couplets (2 PVCs in a row) during 24 hours. So be reassured that you are surrounded by people every day who have more PVCs than you, it's just that they are not sensitive enough to feel them.
I know they feel horrible though.
I have had 1786 recorded and feel every single one of them as a horrible flip flop in throat and dropping sensation in chest. I literally didn't go longer then 2 minutes without PVCs for 6 months..like torture.
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Avatar_f_tn
The second sentence of my last post should read
"In studies where they've put holter monitors on a sample of the population..."
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Avatar_f_tn
I have to ask how in the WORLD do you do it?  I started down this awful PVC/PAC road in May.  I have worn two event recorders, had one nuclear stress test, one echo, numerous x-rays, one CAT scan and I don't want to tell you how many times I have been to the ER-too embarrasing.  I am so sick and tired of these things.  My doctor couldn't find anything on the echo or anything significant on the event recorder.  He did see on my first recorder that I had from another Dr. office that I was having lots of PVC'S AND PAC'S so he put me on Toporol .25 daily.  Well, they finally got better around late August, but then I ended up back in the ER in September.  I have noticed that everytime I go to the ER (even the first time in May) is a few days or right after my monthly cycle.  I have had my hormone levels checked as we thought maybe I was going thru the change.  I am at my WITS END.  I have a couple of good weeks and then BAM, they are back.  I had a really rough weekend and almost went to the ER yesterday because they were happening quite frequently.  And that's exactly what it feels like for me-a dropped sensation-those are the bad ones.  The flutters are no fun, but I can deal with those, it's the somersault feeling that takes your breath away.....UGH.  I feel like everytime it happens will be IT-you know what I mean.  Please tell me how am I supposed to deal with this-yikes??  Everyone keeps saying they are benign, but they surely don't feel like it.  My cardioligist and his entire staff think I am just stressed......UH, HECK YEA I am stressed.  These darn PVC'S will make anyone stressed!!!
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Avatar_f_tn
Oh, and I meant to ask, how can people not be sensitive enough not to feel them???  To a person who feels every single one, it's hard for me to understand that.  My doctor told me the same thing, he says "eveyone has them, you just feel them!"
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I don't think you can desensitize your body to the PVCs. If you feel the thump then that's the way it is. All you can do is change how you think of them. You've had tests done that show your heart is working well except for the PVC's and PAC's. I think of them as my heart hiccups. They're no worse than regular hiccups or a burp or the other end (ahem). And I sure don't worry about those happening. The arrhythmias are part of who I am, like wrinkles or freckles or arthritis. If there's a change in your heart, then do get it checked out. This year I've been having some chest pains. I just took my son's dog out for a walk (we're dog sitting). Within the first block I got a little zing of pain. A few more steps and wham - a real chest grabber and I doubled over. I embarrassed myself being so dramatic but dang, it hurt. It also went away quickly. It's something new for me and yes, as much as I detest going to the doctor, I'm going in for all the various tests. Your doctor has said you have PVCs and PACs but other than that you're doing OK. The trick is to convince your brain. That just takes time. Don't be too hard on yourself.
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21064_tn?1309312333
I absolutely agree with ireno....if it's new for you, get it checked out.  Otherwise, once you've been checked out, the best thing to do is try and figure out how to live with the buggers.  for me, the somersaults are usually more than one pvc in a row, definitely weird.  Just train your mind not to overreact.  I found that actually tuning in to the pvcs helps.  When I start to feel them, I "take heart" and see what I can feel.  That has helped me to cope.

When you wore the event monitor, did you record your "weirdest" feelings?  As long as you know the doctor has seen a tape with the odd flips and flops, that should give you some piece of mind...some. If you read through some of the posts here, you'll find that many of us have been where you are.  Hang in there, we'll get you through the rough parts. Have a great day!

connie
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Avatar_f_tn
Hmmm, I wonder if that is what mine is-the somersaults, more then one.  I recorded EVERYTHING, any bump, and pain...... they never said they found couplets, but that doesn't mean there weren't any recorded.  I haven't experienced anything "new" it's just that I have been feeling so much better as of late, so when I do experience them, it's like the first time-you know what I mean.  When you haven't had them in a couple of weeks you almost, well I do, forget about them, but then when they sneak up on you it's like you are back at the beginning.  I have been to my cardio almost every month since May-when this all started :-)  That is way too many times.  I have been to the ER at least six times since May-once twice in one month.  So I don't know what else to do besides go to another cardio, and I don't want to start Dr. hopping, it will just make my anxiety worse.  Ugh, I'm not due to see my cardio until the end of December.
I am having surgery in December which has had my nerves really acting up.  I'm a mess :-)  Thanks for replying so promptly to both of you-it really helps.
How long have you all been living with this?
Oh, and question: my Cardio said "you don't have any arrythmias" and I told him I thought that was what PVC's were.  He said that they distinguish arrythimias as four or more in a row.  He actually showed me someone's EKG because he knows what a "special" patient I am and I that I don't always believe what he says.  I could tell the distinct difference between mine and the one he showed me.   Does that make sense?
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21064_tn?1309312333
Everything you're saying makes sense.  You're in great company here.  We're gonna help you to deal with the heart hiccups : )

I also consider myself one of "those" patients who needs to know and understand.  In the long run, I think it's a really good thing.  However, during our more stressful times, it can be frustrating and exhausting.

I've had pvcs for about 30 years.  They would come and go, sometimes worse than others.  In my 30's and 40's SLAM!!  I had tons of them and FINALLY believe they were benign.  The best thing that happened to me was being referred to a very kind and understanding doctor.  She has been a blessing!  I moved from Ohio to North Carolina a couple of years ago, and I still travel twice a year to see my doctor in Ohio.  

I'm not sure about the definition of an arrythmia...never heard that before.  Nonetheless, they made me hyper aware of my heartbeat.  Now, I find myself trying to pay attention when they happen.  It has helped me to believe the doctors when they say not to worry.

I definitely know what you mean about the difference in the EKG strips.  I was like the "other" guy....constant flips and flops.

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Wow, 30 years huh?  Gosh, I have only been going thru this for 6 months and I'm a mess!  You are a true inspriation....30 years is no joke.  I'm in my late 30's my b-day is this Friday and my body just seems to be falling apart :-)  I am dramatic by nature so.......
Well, today is a good day so far so I am trying to be happy about that.  But you know what I do...obsess about "okay, when is it going to happen, am I going to be able to breathe thru it, will this be worse then the last time, etc."  When I don't have them I constantly think about them.  It is truly a vicious cycle and I am seeing someone for this.  They say I have anxiety/panic and I'm sure I do, but it doesn't make the flip-flops any less bearable.
My MD is good, but he's not very...hmmmm, not real caring.  He has seen me so many times and I guess he sees so many more serious issues since he's a cardio that he doesn't really understand what I'm going thru.  He says he feels his too, but it doesn't seem to bother him one bit.  You are BLESSED that you have a doctor who really understands.  If I could find one like that I would travel to see them too :-)
Are you on any meds?  I don't know if I mentioned it but I am on a beta blocker right now.  
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212161_tn?1391090750
i have had them for 23 years and they get worse and better when i wear the recorder it shows pac and over 3000 a day i have them for 10 weeks non-stop and thjanboom they just go away, i have not had them since march of this year . jan,feb seem to be the months they come and stay for weeks at times not sure why, but have wore many recorders and all say pac, heart good as far as a ekco goes . hang in there and try not to give yourself anxiety ovet them that makes it so much worse. barbara
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Avatar_f_tn
Yep, that's exactly what I'm doing.  I was in good spirits last week, but of course no bad PVC's.  This week is a totally different story.  I am trying SO hard not to let them run my life, but I am really having a hard time with it.  I just keep plugging along wi/Gods help, day by day :-)  This sure is a tough road-I wouldn't wish it on anyone!
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21064_tn?1309312333
Yep, 30 years for me.  When I first was back in normal sinus rhythm, it felt VERY strange to me.  I was so accustomed to being out of sync that normal actually felt abnormal.  Hope that makes sense...lol

Oh man!  When I was in my late 30's, my pvcs were coming out of the woodwork!!  I talked to a few doctors and I just could not believe that could be NORMAL!!  After a few years away from beta blockers, I went back on Inderal and they settled down some.  In my earlier 40's they were back with a vengeance!  I am definitely an anxious person, but the pvcs were not caused by anxiety.  Anxiety just made them worse. I would get them, regardless.

A lot of us are drama queens : 0
I can turn a teeny problem into a mountain within minutes.  I think many of us who visit here share those tendencies.  It probably has to do with being heart-aware and a bit on the anxious side. What you do (obsess, etc) is very, very common.  Something about the pvcs sets our parasympathetic nervous system on edge and the cycle fcan be debilitating. It is also common to refrain from eating out, entertaining, leaving the house, traveling, etc...anything that might put us in a position where the pvcs could get out of control and make us vulnerable to the "attack."  I'm here to tell ya -- forget about the "attack," you'll miss out on way too much of the good stuff in life.  It's not easy, but just take baby steps and you'll soon find yourself in the acceptance mode.

Sorry to hear your MD is not all that caring.  That makes it tough.  I realize he has seen you often, but that should tell him how bothered you are.  I think seeing someone about the anxiety will be very helpful in getting you past the fear.  Nice for your cardio that the pvcs don't bother him....But, they bother YOU!  You may want to talk to your internist about a referral to a different cardio - not for a different diagnose, just for a different patient approach.

I have been to a numbr of cardios and you are right, I am blessed to have found one who really tries to understand the anxiety, etc.

I take lisinopril daily, and a beta blocker on the very rare occasion the pvcs kick up.  I keep them with me more as an insurance policy.  

I'm happy to hear you have been feeling better.  HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!
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Avatar_f_tn
I have noticed that some people take the beta blockers "as needed" I didn't realize that would help.  I thought they had to be in your system for a while before they would work.  It took me a month or so before I really noticed a true difference; but I was VERY anxious at that time.

Curious, when you first started having these-30 years ago, what diagnosis did they have?  One ER doctor told me they are still trying to figure them out-lol.

I don't want to make my MD sound like he's uncaring, he just seems to be a little aloof about it.  He tries to explain to me they won't harm me, but he also gets on me because he says I'm not taking my meds like I should (the Xanax).  I want to be med free and I don't know that the Xanax will work w/my skipped beats.  They work fine for the fast heart rate however.

I really appreciate all of the info. you are giving me!!!!
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21064_tn?1309312333
Welll, that's kinda the weird part.  Here's what I remember....

Age 19 - I was to the doctor because I was not feeling well.  His comment upon exam, "You have the heartbeat of a 70 year old man."  WHAT!!  He said not to worry; it was just the way it was beating, but not dangerous.  He said I had mitral valve prolapse.

Early 20's - OB/GYN mentioned that my heartbeat was skipping.  I didn't feel it, or at least I didn't have a name for the "anxious feeling." OB suggested I consider seeing a cardio.  For whatever reason, I did not. I heard a lot about "anxiety" and just figured that was something I had to deal with. I was not really aware of "pvcs" but I do remember feeling "anxious" and panicky (stomach flip-flopping, sweaty palms, etc)

Mid 20's - OB/GYN insisted on an EKG right then, and there.  I was referred to a cardio who diagnosed mitral valve prolapse and pvcs.  I saw him for several years and was on beta blockers for a good part of the time.  During that time, I became more aware of the odd beats and sought medical treatment on/off because they could NOT be normal!!

My 30's - New internist also picked up on the beats and the mitral valve prolapse.  He followed me for 6-8 years. Benign PVC's.  This was the decade for trying anti-anxiety medications, including Xanax.  I found out VERY quickly that it could be addictive.  Since that time, I have used it only on rare occasions. I went back on Inderal which helped with pvcs and also with the anxiety.

My 40's - PVC's were present a good part of the time.  I developed pvc-induced cardiomyopathy, and had two ablaitons.  Now, I only have occasional pvcs.  Still have checkups to watch for any new/old arrythmias.  So far, so good.

My EP did not want me on the Xanax.  She said, it would only make it so I would "not care" about the PVC's.  She was right, so I choose to use it very carefully.  For 10-12 years, I took beta blockers, daily.  At one point, I asked about taking them as needed and it has been effective for me.  But, that could be because I am kind of used to the PVC's.

Hope that helps to answer your question....If not, let me know and I'll give it another shot. : )
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Avatar_f_tn
thanks for sharing your history. Can I ask when you developed Cardiomyopathy how many Pvc's were you having a day? Like one every few beats?? I am just concerned because some days I feel so many.

Thanks.
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I also feel flutters, usually in my throat. I've felt them occasionally for about 8 years. Recently, I've felt them several times a week, usually at night. Then I'll have a couple of weeks when I have none at all. I mentioned to my doctor last summer that I had them more frequently now, but she assured me they were probably nothing to worry about. They usually last only a second, but a few times when they lasted longer I felt it took my breath away for just a second.

Last night I felt the PVC's (I assume that's what they are from what I've read) too many times to count. (I've never felt them more than 2 times in one day before.) In addition, from time to time I had a catch in my breath. (While my breathing is normally very even, on some breathes I suddenly sucked in more air than usual. You know how after a good cry you're trying to breathe normal and sometimes your body jerks in more air? It's like that.) Anyway, do you know if the two are related? I've been having this wierd "catch" in my breath on occasion for the last month, too.

I also had rheumatic fever when I was 3 with no heart damage other than thickening of the mitral valve. I'm in perimenopause and am on medicine for reflux which could contribute to the problem from what I've read. I also had too much sugar after supper last night... After reading other posts I think this could all be related. The reason I'm posting is just to find out if this is all normal. I haven't had an echocardiogram for 10 years and have had no other heart tests. I jog 3-7 miles several times a week with no problem, so I really doubt this is something serious, but I'd like to get some other opinions. Also, I need my sleep. I don't deal with things well when I lose a night's sleep like I did last night. I'm not typically an anxious person, and I've read enough about PVC's to know they're probably benign, but they wake me up and not getting my sleep makes me anxious. (It's difficult to deal with a room full of energetic first graders on very little sleep.)
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Avatar_f_tn
You have gone thru quite a lot and make it sound like a walk in the park :-)  Goodness you must have nerves of steel!!  Well I pray and hope that I don't have to go thru all of that, not to sound crass.  I have been very down about them lately which makes them worse.  I can barely feel them sometimes, but even that is too much for me.  You mentioned that you had EKG's and I was wondering were any of them abnormal?  See, that is what worries me that these PVC's can turn into something else over the years.  How can they be considered benign when they induced cardiomyopathy in you?  Maybe I need to stop asking questions as I keep getting great info. but it makes me more anxious and afriad-lol.  I will start thinking that I will get whatever it is you had or even the next person-ugh.

I had lots of stomach flip flops last night; but I used to get that ALL the time. I suffer with gas really bad-my gallbladder is not functiong properly and I also take meds for acid reflux, and I heard that will aggrevate the Vagus (sp??) nerve which makes your heart do weird things...who knows anymore.  I have read so much stuff on this my mind is a whirlwind.

So do you think your PVC's were caused by your Mitral Valve condition?  I hear that is one of the reasons you can get them.  I have a cousin (by marriage) who was diagnosed with that, but she just complains of her chest hurting sometimes-no PVC's that I'm aware of.

You explain things GREAT-too good really :-)  Thanks!
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21064_tn?1309312333
It was no walk in the park, but it wasn't so bad.  I suppose it looks worse on paper.  Me..nerves of steel? NOT!!  I have always been subject to rounds of anxiety.  I used to stress over EVERYTHING!  Queen of worry!!  Try not to let this get you down.  Like I've told others, once you learn to accept them, you'll be coming back here to help others : )

I've had tons of EKG's and have had all kinds of computer-generated diagnoses (myocardial infarction, long QT, abnomal waves, etc).  However, once the doctor correlates the test results to my clinical exam, they assure me I do not have any of those conditions.  I had pvcs in the thousands for years before I developed CM.  You're gonna be fine!  My doctor has been an EP for 15-20 years, and I was her first case (she's had two others since).  Don't worry, it is very,very rare.

Make a list of questions for the next time you see your doctor.  It will help sort out what's going on and it will help to settle your anxiety.  The doctors are not sure if I developed MVP as a result of chronic pvcs, vice-versa, or neither.  Seriously, don't worry about the pvcs.  Just work on figuring out a plan for accepting them as part of your uniqueness : )
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21064_tn?1309312333
You're welcome. The older I get, the harder it is to remember back that far...lol

I developed CM in 2002 after having thousands of pvcs/day for many years.  I don't have copies of many of my reports, but in general, I was having over 20,000 pvcs everyday. I had been seeing my current EP since 1998 and it wasn't until after the ablations she ever heard my heart in NSR...I practically danced a jig when I saw a whole EKG strip in NSR and that's only seconds worth of data.

Don't worry, just let you doctor know of any significant change in frequency and/or your symptoms.
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Avatar_f_tn
I love the quick replies on this forum!!!

Can I just say THANK YOU!!!!   I am really going to try to put in a concious effort to try my BEST to not let them get me down.  You know someone posted something on this forum (heart disease forum 6/28/07) that I printed out.  It talks about people with PVC's and how you have to learn how to accept them.  It gave 10 steps to those who suffer with them and they are GREAT.  It described me all the way.  If anyone is reading this you must go and look it up, it's by sillyheart who I think has posted on here or the anxiety forum.  

Yes, I plan to make a list of questions and hope that helps.

Oh, and what's rare,  pvc induced cardiomyopathy or geting the ablation because of them?
What dose of beta blocker are you on?  And you mentioned another drug you were taking everyday but I wasn't sure what that was.

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can you guide me to the 10 steps to dealing with PVC's. I would love to read it.

Thanks
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thanks for your comments!! I am sure I will have more in the future.:)
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I found the 10 steps.

Thanks. It is great!!
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Isn't it the best.  I used to read it EVERYDAY when my anxiety was off the charts.  I think I should start again :-)
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21064_tn?1309312333
I take lisinopril daily and 20mg of Inderal when I feel the need.

PVC-induced cardiomyopathy is rare.

The 10 steps was started in 2006 by a good friend of mine.  We used to correspond via this forum and became friends. His list is a great resource for pvc'ers.  The originator of the list is "skippyheart" and he captures life with pvcs to a T!  I'm so happy to hear y'all are referring to it.....It's made the rounds a few times.  I'll be sure to let him know his list has resurfaced  : )

You can find the original thread using this link  http://www.medhelp.org/forums/cardio/messages/35805.html

Have a great day everyone!!
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Avatar_f_tn
You all are NOT going to believe this, but we just had a firedrill at work.  Needless to say we had to walk stairs..going up :-)  I was little nervous but just kept praying all the way up.  Well, once we were able to get on the elevator a lady just fell out-fainted.  I heard all this comotion but wasn't sure what i was and then I saw her.  She is fine, a little disoriented and I think her head hurts-she hit it pretty hard.  Anyway, for fear of sounding self absorbed-THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I NEEDED TO SEE-lol.  I couldn't believe that I happened to be on the same elevator where someone faints.   We all know that is something anxious people are petrified of.  Well, I had to calm myself, could feel the PVC's trying to surface, and I just kept breathing, in-out, in-out wheweeeeeeeeeeeee, what a day!!
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21064_tn?1309312333
OMYGOSH!  Murphy's Law!!  The good news is, you're talking about it, and you were there to help AND she is fine.  The bad news is, I'm sure she'll have a nasty headache, and you're nervous system is gonna react to the next fire drill.  Just keep telling yourself that you climbed those nasty steps, you managed your flutters and you are going home without a headache!  Your new mantra:  Breathe, breathe, relax, breathe,breathe, relax...

Hope this evening is relaxing ; )
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Avatar_f_tn
Well, my evening was okay, but I am my own worst enemy.  My morning started out rough, as it ahs been since the beginning of this week.  But as the day progresses I usually feel better.  HOWEVER, because I witnessed someone passing out yesterday, I am getting the dizzy feelings-ugh!  I keep drinking cold water, walking around and telling myself it's all "me" doing this to my body.
I hope everyone else is having an anxiety free day!
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Oslo, Norway
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Bromley
257552_tn?1404606154
Blank
Artaud
Pittsburgh, PA