It has been suggested to me that magnesium taurate would be the best mag supplement for PVCs and PACs. Currently I am taking a chelated mineral complex as well as mag citrate powder (Natural Calm) and it is indeed helping. However, I would like to see if I can get further benefit.
Curious...anyone here have any success with mag taurate or simply just adding straight taurine? And if so, how much do you take?
Mag Taurate seems very hard to find and the few brands out there are pretty expensive. But if it helps eliminate these darn things...I am willing to try!!
Hello. You brought up an interesting question. Personally, I am very eager to suggest nutrition therapy for my patients, especially for some chronic conditions for which we do not have very effective prescription medications. I often recommend aggressive vitamin D supplementation for muscle ache and depressed mood, high dose vitamin B complex for fatigue and low energy levels, and Saccharomyces Boulardii for diarrhea. I also believe in the health benefits of magnesium -- rather, I should say I believe in the ill effects of LOW magnesium -- muscle weakness, irritability, even arrhythmia. I am glad you experienced improvement in PVC/PAC symptoms with the use of mag citrate.
In the hospital we give patients intravenous (IV) mag sulfate 2 to 3 grams at a time, and this is quite effective in bringing up the blood level of magnesium. I usually see some improvement in the burden of arrhythmia. The trouble with ORAL supplementation is that it is very poorly absorbed through the gut. Several magnesium tablets are available as you have alluded to. I have the most experience with mag oxide and some with mag gluconate. This is the first time I have heard of Mag taurate. All of the oral magnesium compounds can cause significant bloating and diarrhea -- afterall, why do people take Milk of Magnesia? Mag citrate is also a powerful laxative -- I gave many patients mag citrate for constipation.
I did some research into mag taurate since I am not familiar with this compound. Unfortunately there is very little in the scientific literature -- the ONLY relevant publication are three articles written by MF McCarty in 1996, all published in a journal called “Medical Hypotheses” (+ two additional recent studies in rats and rabbits under Taurine Magnesium Coordination Compound, TMCC). McCarty was apparently at the time an employee/nutritionist of Nutrition 21 Inc (the company recently went bankrupt). So, there is very little scientific support for Mag taurate. On amazon.com, mag taurate is indeed sold with the claim that it “maximizes bioavailablity of magnesium”. Reading the consumer reviews (by no means scientifically studies), there are plenty of believers of this product.
In conclusion, I have three recommendations:
1. In spite of lack of solid scientific evidence, it seems harmless to try the mag taurate and see if it helps you
2. Taurine by itself is well-tolerated and reasonable to try, although it seems implausible to me how taurine both maximizes magnesium absorption AND has numerous beneficial biological effects of its own.
3. Avoid excessive mag citrate use (if you are having very loose bowel movement) since chronic laxative use can harm your GI tract.
I messed around a lot with various forms of magnesium. Mag Ox was worthlless.
Mag Glycinate was a definite improvement for my benign, isolated but frequent PVCs.
Mag Taurate worked well too
I finally settled on Mag Taurate. I buy Cardiovascular Research mag Taurate from amazon. I don't think it's that expensive.
The reason I even tried out mag was because I was noticing improvement when I would take Maalox extra strength. I attributed it to the Magnesium.
The only other info I have is that magnesium should be taken with Calcium.
My experience with this is that I was taking a lot of Mag Glycinate when it was working really well for me. All of the sudden the PVCs came back, and were changed. I stopped the Mag G and they settled down for a while. Then my pre-mag G PVCs came back again. Talking and much research later I went back on the Mag G at a lower daily intake and added a modertate amount of calcium supps. This worked really well for the long term.
I also used Slo - Mag, which is a brang that has Mag C, with calcium also. this worked fine.
One day I ran out and had tried the Mag T, so I decided to go through that bottle and have been fine, feeling good. So I stuck with just a nominal dose of the Mag T, once before bed.
Great info Dr Lou, thanks! Mag Glycinate is another to research. When I first started taking, it literally felt like I had taken a sedative but without the nasty other side effects, it was such a calming feeling. This didn't continue at all, I eventually got used to it. But my PVCs storms at the time dried up almost immediately.
Another thing I've tried that has worked, when I was in the middle of a bad PVC storm/outbreak I would get in a bath tub and load it up with Epsom Salts. The few times I resorted to this, the outbreak/storm went away while I was in the tub. Was it the mag in the epsom salts? was it the heat of the tub? did the dip into warm water trigger some sort of vagal response? I don't really know, I wish I could figure this out!!
We are left with anecdotal feedback and that can be so flawed and palp break outs seem to wax and wane on their own if you do nothing.
When I was going through my major outbreak, if someone told be to "roll in dog crap it helped me!" I may have tried it, heck it's free. If I had rolled in dog crap then the PVCs waned on their own I would swear the dog crap helped. Well, you know the dilemma I'm sure.
The last week I've been taking magnesium (oxide) 200 mg because I have been stressed, with tense muscles and cold hands and feet, so I gave it a try. I've also felt an increase in my PACs. Maybe from 2-3 a day to 10-20. Not the end of the world (though I probably have some more that I can't sense).
My muscles are less tense, and my hands and feet are no longer cold. What is slightly annoying is that the veins on my hands are almost constantly full of blood, which looks funny. I also have a slightly lower blood pressure (minus 5/5 mmHg approx.) and I sometimes feel dizzy when standing up. That's from what I know a common side effect of calcium channel blockers (magnesium is as far as I know acting like a CCB).
The PACs haven't changed so much as far as I know. I still feel an occational flip in the chest or throat. I guess that's a part of life :)
There are so many forms of Mag - it can be quite confusing. I have heard that Oxide does little to nothing for PVCs - but it is the most available (not bio availablie...the most common) and cheapest.
I have been doing fine with the Citrate as far as GI goes. I take probably 600-800 mg of Mag a day PLUS take epsom baths daily with no ill effects whatsoever. I do very much believe I have deficient for a long time. I skimmed through Magnesium Miracle at the book store one night and I have like 90% of the symptoms.
With the help of a nutritionist, I have been trying these things out. I also take Aloe Liquid (inner leaf) which I do believe is also helping. I have many days with no PVCs at all. But they do come back during stress, lack of sleep and worst of all...the 2 weeks prior to my period. And interestingly enough, estrogen and progesterone as well as cortisol and adrenaline all deplete a person of Mag. Beta blockers also do this and I have been on them for 8 years.
Anyway, so I wanted to try the taurate (which was actually suggested to me when I called in to a radio show with Dr. Ron Hoffman called Health Talk LOL) to see if they could improve even more around my time of the month.
I was always taught that Mag needed to be taken with Calcuim in a cal/mag ratio of 2:1. But my nutritionist (who is also a pharmacist) said that calcium is far over rated. Said Cal is in everything we eat, yet Mag is not. She said that Calcuim competes for absorbtion in the GI tract and Cal always wins. So I have lowered my calcium intake (only take about 300 - 400 mg).
The Cardio Research from Amazon are the ones I was planning on buying, so I think I will go ahead and give it a try.
Thanks so much everyone and I look forward to further advice/suggestions/experiences!!
"When I was going through my major outbreak, if someone told be to "roll in dog crap it helped me!" I may have tried it, heck it's free. If I had rolled in dog crap then the PVCs waned on their own I would swear the dog crap helped. Well, you know the dilemma I'm sure."
I AM LAUGHING SO HARD AT THIS I AM CRYING!!!! LOL LOL LOL
Humor really is good medicine.
I cant even tell you all the things I have tried, even all at the same time to get rid of my pacs, tachys......and weird heart beats!!!
Supplements, anti anxiety (did nothing), yoga, etc, etc
Probably the nastiest is drinking AC vinegar.
I like Calm magnesium, not sure if it helps or not...
I would do anything to feel better. Misery can be motivating.
Have not had a drop of chocolate, alcohol, coffee of any kind for 6 months! : (
First thing I want after ablation is cup of really good, strong coffee. Even decaf... : )
And maybe an adult beverage later..... : )
Staying M E L L O W seems to help the most. Trying to not get amped up on good or bad vibe. Even getting really excited gives me pacs. Movie, car shopping, shopping in general..... UG....
I hope everybody looks for a reason to laugh today!
I know of a funny comedian named Tim Hawkins. Look him up on utube if bored and need a laugh!
So true about laughter. Comedy to me is a top priority. In fact, I try to see one of my favorite comedians at least once a year. Last year I went to Kathy Griffin and Chelsea Handler. In a few weeks we are going to Daniel Tosh. Sometimes I worry that the "skips" will ruin a fun night out...but I am getting over it.
When I sit in my epsom baths I listen to comedy podcasts. One of my favorites is The Nerdist. Helps keep my mind off of things and really does help!!
I do the ACV too btw and it is nasty...but I swear it helps several issues!! But I am sure it all depends on the exact issue. I am not an ablation candidate...even tho I had an EP try to talk me into it. My second opinion doc said that suggestion was pretty much malpractice. Great!! lol. Anyway, if your problem is bad enough to warrant an ablation...I can't imagine yoga or ACV curing it.
I'll add to the magnesium stories.My drug therapy has had me run thru 4 anti-arrirthymics and 4 beta blockers, none of which worked for me. At present, I am taking 50mg of metoprolol er and rhythmol 225mg/3 times day until 2 weeks ago when I told my cardiologist that the mag-g I had started taking 4 months ago had reduced my irregular HB from thousands a day to just a few. We questioned taking me completely off the rhythmol, but opted to cut the dosage in half for a cpl. months and see how it went. I am now 10 days at the lower dosage and actually feel better with no change in the number of palps. The mag-g has caused no bowel problems . I take 500mg. twice a day. I also take warfarin as I once had a-fib 2 years ago about 2 months after my failed ablation.
So having said all that, I can truly hope to get off the rhythmol and also truly hope low magnesium was my big problem. I get a few bumps during the day, dont notice any at night, and can breath a huge sigh of relief if things stay as they are now....good luck to you. I just joined this forum and will be reading it often.
I actually got here by googling TMCC which I found while trying to figure out whether free form taurine aids magnesium absorption when both are supplemented, or when taurine is supplemented.
For those interested here is a promising 2012 study conducted on TMCC which doesn't appear to be affiliated with any supplement companies:
"TMCC (200 and 400 μM) relieved abnormal L-type calcium currents induced by ouabain through facilitation of steady-state activation and retardation of steady-state inactivation."
Ouabain of course is what was used to induce the arrhythmia to begin with. This was in rats. If converting the nanomolar concentration be sure to adjust to human dosages (convert uM to grams, figure mg/kg, multiply by 3, divide by 37 for humans to get human mg/kg).
As someone who has experienced PVC myself I can say anecdotally MagTabSR worked very well for me, so much so that I don't even notice it now; that's not even why I showed up to post this, but maybe it will help someone.
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