Operation (surgery) or Procedure?

[PikaPika88]

I'm confused with Procedure and surgery.  I hope someone here can help me to answer some questions as below:

"Have you ever had an operation and/or surgery?"

1.  Electrophysiology study (EPS), does it count as an operation or surgery?  

2.  Ablation?

3.  Angiogram?

4.  Pacemaker implant?

As I know all of them are procedures.  Do I tick " No " then?

Thanks

[Momto3]

I hadn't thought of it that way, but that makes perfect sense.  An extra "insurance policy" couldn't hurt (except for the incision..lol).  Sorry to hear you're not feeling well.  Hope things begin to improve for you very soon!

When my EF was at 40%, I only heard rumblings about an ICD.  Fortunately, the ablations cleared things up (at least in that department).

Take care!

[maggiemag]

Frankly, I am hoping for the slight drop in EF from my present one of 40% in order to qualify for an ICD.  Not having a normal heart, and having NSVT with multifocal PVC's, I would welcome the insurance of an ICD.  I think they expect my EF to drop, but I've had 5 relatively good years so far since the IDCM diagnosis and 15% EF.  Right now my heart is the least of my problems though. :-(

[Momto3]

Holy cow!! Thanks for explaining.   You've certainly been through the mill with the ICD!  Or should I say "without" the ICD!  Hope your EF stays at a healthy point, and you can pass on another incision....that would make you asymetrical : )

I'm glad they didn't want to "crack the chest!"  YIKES!!

[maggiemag]

Naw, never got it in.  When I hit 35% again they will try again.  They didn't want to crack the chest and do the epicardial approach.  They found out that they can't implant on the left due to a left persistent superior vena cava, so they will try to implant on the right again and hope this time that they will be able to make the required 90 degree turn.  They tell me that the catheters are more flexible now.  2 incisions, one on the left and one on the right, and no icd!  Symmetrical anyway!  LOL

[PikaPika88]

I might be end up with 5 incisions with NO pacemaker.  That means, I am no longer need it.  But for Maggie, it was a failed ICD!  2 incisions and NO ICD.... make sense to me.  One cut, put the ICD in and one cut, take it out.  Add up to 2 incisions?

Change battery, would it count as one surgery or procedure?  It almost the same cut and stitches.  Implant was hurt, I was gone mad there!  Change battery only sore for 2 to 3 days.... I was given GA..... not awake.

When I small, saw the doctor with a knife in his hand then I said it is a surgery.  Procedure, the doctor did not carry or hold a knife!  That's a child brain.  When I grown up, the brain become complicated!

Thanks for the input.

[Momto3]

2 incisions and NO ICD!!  That doesn't sound too good!  Were you ever able to have it correctly implanted?

[maggiemag]

The pacemaker thing probably is just semantics.  Some are put in place during surgery, and I would call that a procedure during surgery!  Haha.  Others are placed as dolfin said, but I believe those are temporary pacemakers and I would consider those procedures also!  Pika's, I believe, was a surgical implant.  I had a failed ICD implant that I DO list as a surgery as I had 2 incisions although no ICD!  Physicians would need to know that too!

[Momto3]

My first inclination was that a pacemaker implant would be considered surgery.  My dad has been through a couple implants, and I tend to think of it as a surgical procedure.  The CC website says "procedure" but other sites refer to the implant of surgery.  Maybe it's just a matter of semantics. Got me.  I've had 2 ablations and I don't think of them as surgery, but who knows.  

[dolfnlvr]

Depends on the type of pacemaker actually.  There are some that can be "threaded" in through a vein.  I never had one implanted, but when I was 18 it was considered as a treatment for my severe reaction during syncope (heart rate 11 beats per minute).  Anti-arhythmetic drugs worked though, but I clearly remember the cardiologist telling me about the "procedure" for implanting the pacemaker.  

I agree with Momto3.  If this is a medical form that you are filling out, I would put an asterisk.  Usually this section has a spot for "further explanation" where you can fill in the blanks about the pacemaker and ablation.

I do find the question to be worded oddly though. "Have you ever had an operation and/or surgery?"  What is an operation if it's not surgery?  :-)  Sounds like the people who wrote the question aren't clear on which is which either :-).

Have a good day.

[maggiemag]

A pacemaker implant is a surgery!  A surgical incision is made and there is a wound.  Granted, it is minor surgery, but still surgery.  I agree that all the others are procedures, although you hear people refer to an ablation as surgery, I do not think it is.

[Momto3]

That can be so confusing, but here's how I'd interpret each...

1.  EPS is a test/procedure

2.  According to the Cleveland Clinic, a catheter ablation is a (non-surgical) treatment, or procedure.  

3.  An angiogram is a test/procedure

4.  A pacemaker implant is a non-surgical procedure

I would tick "no" but would probably add an * and a comment for the ablation and the pacemaker implant.  It would depend on who was asking, and why.  If I thought it could impact an outcome, I would list them.