PAC crazy

[tsco]

I'm 45 male.  To look at me I'm am in perfect health.  The rythym thing hit me around age 35.  Hard Road!.  I have SVT along with some flutter and pac's/pvc's.  I've had 4 ablations performed, one in Cleveland Clinic by Natale. Supposedly have some scar tissue in my right atrium that causes ablation problems.  The last ablation in Lx KY they said it was too close to my natural pacemaker.  Anyway, I was on Rythmol SR for a couple of years. Started having LBBB with chest pain. Stopped the RSR it went away.  After several months of calm now I have these PACs all of the time (out of the blue and every other beat).  I can not function, very depressing.  Started toprol ER yesterday 25mg.  #1 Is this effective medicine to curb these nasty things?  #2 Does Pulomnary Vein Iso get rid of PAC's?  I can hold me breath and I don't have them, When I take a deeper breath they hit.  #3 Is there an ablation for PAC's We have to be sensitive to something, chemical changes etc. why can't this be figured out?  #4 I've been taking magnesium-taurate for several months 800mg. It seemed to help the SVT and all other until now.  Do you see any danger in taking a mag suplement?  #5 Every ablation seems there are "new" spots to ablate.  Is that just an ongoing thing with everyone?  I read people had recorded rythms and when the procedure is done those could not be intiated but another one was found etc.  Are we chasing our tails here?  I'm at wits end and tired of being a tough guy after ten years this is hard to deal with.  #6 When is this considered a disability?  MY doc says never.  I say that's bull.   I can't function when this is happening and sometimes not sure I want to. MY job requires travel to China etc. I consider that very risky for me. It's hard to stand and give presentations to a room of people when your chest is pounding out skip-beats.   Thanks for your help.  

[2 Sensitive]

  YES,it DOES indeed help to cut out certain things like coffee,M.S.G.,alcohol,tobacco,etc..at least for me.If I were to do any of those things,I'd be in trouble.
I even had to stop traveling to high altitude places and had to avoid loud concerts as well..
  I wouldn't dream of having sex in the missionary position either.Doesn't make for a very exciting life, except for the latter I guess...and I have never gotten a P.V.C while laughing:)

[arthur]

Actually, the ascerbic comments were aimed at everyone (which included me at one time), not jsut you!  Of course, we are all interested in what might help...but I see way too many folks caught up in a constant anxiety mode looking for the magic bullet.  My real point was, and is, that if you are still here complaining of 'skips', even AFTER cutting out a myriad of "possible causative agents", you should have figured out that they are NOT causing the problem, and you should have figured out that you could be living a normal life with coffee, chocolate, aspartame...and, of course, those damn skips.  -Arthur

[2 Sensitive]

Dear Arthur-

I didn't log in to Medhelp to complain,I simply wanted to let others know that I found some sort of relief in using Goji juice..I only wanted to help..I know how hard it is to live with these things and any kind of relief ,even if it's just minor or temporary,is better than nothing at all..Nothing in life is 100%,Not even P.V.C.s..Thank God for that..Take care..

[arthur]

Stop with the diets and supplements already.  You're headed in a downward spiral.  So many folks have written about not drinking coffee anymore, cutting out alcohol, staying way from spicy foods, chomping up magnesium, drinking concoctions from the wazzu...hey, you're still here and complaining...don't you see what's happened to you?
-Arthur

[2 Sensitive]

I came across something that has drastically changed my life for the better!  I have suffered from P.V.C.s and other heart problems for years now and nothing seemed to help me..At 49 I felt my life was practically over until I tried Goji juice..I am a new person today and I cannot say enough about this wonderful juice..I hate to sound like an informercial but,I want the world to know that GOJI juice has trully saved my life!  Anyone else with heart problems tried it yet?

[loreley]

I'm new to this forum and now that I see that so many people seem to be going through the same ordeal I'm going through with my PACs I don't feel so alone any more. I would be extremely interested in the diet you mentioned because I think there is a correlation between some foods and the onset or worsening of PACs. How can I send you my e-mail?

[frs87]

I have PACs constantly. The thing is, they almost never come isolated. I can spend all the day long without having anything, but as soon as I get I PAC, I am certain that I will have four or five on the next few seconds.

Why is that? I had an ablation for atrial flutter and, though I am much better now, I keep having these PACs. I know they're harmless, but I am intrigued why they come in packs. They shouldn't scare me anyway, but a few weeks ago I'm 99% sure that I had a 10 seconds of SVT.

[aussieman]

Apparently the email size is very limited - I've sent you my email address which seemed to have worked. Can you please check.

[tsco]

It must not have worked.  I don't see anything in my message box.  Wonder hoe I can get my e-mail to you (?)

[aussieman]

Please check your inbox as I've sent you details of my 'base' diet'. I think I sent it correctly. Let me know if you did not receive it.  Thanks.

[sugarpea013]

Here is some information on The Secret. I watched it as a movie but it is also available in book and audio. It was amazing and truly changed my life. I mean I had/have an appointment on the 12th of October to have a pacemaker put in, but I truly feel it is unnecessary as I am doing SO much better.
Thanks for the encouragement and take care! Here is the website:

http://www.thesecret.tv/

[tsco]

I am interested in the diet details.  Not sure how to send a specific message on this post.  MY e-mail is ***@****.  Please feel free to e-mail me.

[michaelgaul]

b

[aussieman]

What helps me is to work out a 'safe base' diet. I know that if I go back to a very basic, very organic, and extremely boring diet my papls will subside dramatically. For me it's like eating rabbit food as a main meal and having card board for desert, but at least I get back to a state where I have significant relief from the constant palps. Once I'm back to base (and this can take up to 5 days), I stay on the x%%23* diet until I get confidence again to try other foods (should i feel an urge to). I don't want to bore anyone with the details of what my diet consists of but am hapy to share if you send me a messsage via this board. TSCO - I hope your palps are letting up some by now. I've searched the internet and there are quite a few articles on the development of an atrial specific antiarrythmic drug which does not affect the ventricles and therefore is safe from proarrythmias such as Torsades.

[tsco]

I feel much to young too have these problems and I really feel you are much too young to have to worry with them.  It is kind of ironic you wrote this.  Today I made an appointment with a friend of mine who does reflexology, she feels she can help me.  I have been looking into yoga a little, my problem is I get so busy I forget about relaxing and thinking about me (positively).  I think I have in the back of my head if I stay busy I won't think about this **** (doesn't always work).  I'm on day 5 of non-stop pacs (driving me insane) .  I had just in the past two months decided to quit the sodium channel blocker I was on (Rythmol) and concentrate on more natural meds (Started magnesium-taurate 800 mg).  I fealt I was making a lot of progress until last week.  I was proud that I was heading towards a more natural way, started excercising again (which I used to love) and now I'e been knocked down.  I guess it could be worse, I used to end up in the hospital with Tachy.  Maybe this is an improvement.  I'm not sure but I get discouraged when I have lapses.  "The Secret" ,  Is that a movie?  I'm interested.  I hope you keep feeling good.  I believe you can stop the cycle at your age.  Don't get caught up in stress and anxiety like I did.  Good Luck.

[sugarpea013]

Hey there everyone! I am new to posting but have been lurking in the shadows for quite some time. :) I am a 24 year old female and have had sinus tachycardia along with PVC's PAC's for the last couple years. Prior to them bothering me, I was an extremely active individual; breaking records in physical fitness tests for the U.S. Army. However, the last year I have been extremely limited as to what I can do. I can say I think I've found a "cure"!!!! I have been offered a pacemaker and med's on countless occasions, but I refuse to believe that I am plagued by this illness. You know what I have found works for me!?!? The power of positive thinking my friends. I literally went from being in and out of the ER a month ago, bedridden and afraid to do anything for fear of my heart beating uncontrollably. Then I watched "The Secret". Not sure if anyone is familiar with this. Basically it is thinking so strongly that you are indeed a healthy individual. Everyday I say outloud, "thank you for allowing me to have this day, and thank you for healing me" amongst other things. Everytime my heart acts up I acknowledge the fact that it is happening, but then quickly remind myself, I have been through this before, it will pass, just give it some time and it will be over. I have been doing this for over 2 weeks now, and I am slowly rebuilding my confidence and health. I have been working out every other day, something I have not done in over a year. Through positive thinking I have been able to take my resting pulse rate from 100 down to 50's-60's. I have not touched a single beta blocker or calcium channel blocker. This is ALL by willing my body to lower my pulse. Although I still have slight trouble with my pulse during activity, it has gotten a lot better. Where as before my pulse would be 140-180 upon walking or standing, it is now down between 80-120. This is a HUGE accomplishment for me. Hope this doesn't sound too crazy or out there, but I truly believe if you "THINK" you are healthy, your body will listen to you over time. If you continue to dwell and focus on how poorly you are doing, your body responds just the same.

[gram6plus5]

I am in the same boat. I have recently been having PAC problems galore.  Just don't know how to react to it.  I am also giving up all the little things in life that make me happy.  Can't drink caffine, no alcolhol whatsoever, and I love a glass of wine occassionally. I noticed food has a lot to do with increasing the problem so I have given up the things I really like, including spicy foods, which are my favorite.  I agree with everything you say.  My PACs are increasing and the only relief I experience is shortly after I take my BP medication each day.  This wears off by evening.  My doc. says not to worry - had every test available for heart problems, except Cardio cath. - nothing found of which I was grateful but here I am -still worrying half to death and wishing they would go away every minute of the day.  I feel I should go back to my Doc. but don't want to edge him into doing something if it is not necessary.  I find it very hard to live with this - it is so uncertain.  I I have said the exact words that you have said about "heck with it", "gotta go sometime", and I get myself in that frame of mind but it deminishes each time I have a PAC spell.  I guess I just need to vent all this.  My family doesn't understand, they feel I should be happy with my diagnosis.  Doc. doesn't want to see me for another year.  In the meantime - I will probably have a nervous breakdown !

[Manhattan]

for me it's also helpful to rather than mentally fighting them, to just say to heck with it. if i die, i die and accept that they might kill me. gotta go some time :) of course, there's little chance they will but it still helps to be in this frame of mind. i just saw a man get hit and killed on a bicycle and heard of a boy we know drowning. then i heard of this woman's sister dying of pancreatic cancer when she was the healthiest vegetarian and avid exerciser... we need to have gratitude and realize how lucky we are. we have annoying problems, but nothing that's going to kill us. we'll most certainly die of something else. i can't drink wine anymore either and it really stinks, but there are worse things. hope the toprol helps!

[tsco]

I hope someone will find a cure for all of us.  I have stopped a lot of things like you,  no caffeine (10 yrs), Stopped drinking beer which I loved (in moderation), I've cut way back on fried foods and typically avoid spicy stuff.  As I write this I'm thinking what the heck do I do that is enjoyable.  I liked the car door analogy.  Docs always act like it's no sweat. People around me don't understand and  it really makes me feel alone.  I do know the days I feel good I really appreciate life.
_

[bama jane]

I have had rhythm problems for 8 years daily so I know what you are going through.  Like a lot of others I think my digestive system has contributed to  my rhythm problems so I watch what I know will cause problems, no fried foods, soda, really fatty foods. I don't think it ever becomes common place for anyone who has  these problems.  One lady described it best, she said her doctor told her it wouldn't kill her and she said neither will slamming a car door on your hand over and over again, but your sure would not want to live that way. Hopefully some day there will be a better understanding of this.  I have a friend who has had 3 stents and feels great, no problems with rhythms at all.  What keeps me going when it really gets bad is that somewhere someone is working on finding a fix for this situation.  People that don't have it really can't understand how it can affect your life.  It wears you out. If someone had thousands of hiccups every day for years and years it would be on national television, this is much more common than that so not news worthy.

[tsco]

Thanks for your comment.  It is funny you mentioned food, because this episode now on day 4 started while eating Mexican Food (spicy).  I usually try to limit spicy stuff but thought this one time I would have a beer (which used to enjoy) and some Mex food.  I've had my share of the hospital and am trying to control this at least to avoid hospital runs.  I would really like to know what the med is.  I'll research the internet and see if I can get any info.  I know some meds help for a while and then stop.  I was on Ryhtmol SR for a coupl of years and then realized it was casing bigger problems then I already had. Stay in touch

[aussieman]

I certainly know what you're going through.I have ben plagued by pac's and pvc's for the last 15 years when I had my first prolonged episode (24 hours) of AF. I reverted back with a few doses of Sotalol. Since then I have had 5 other AF episodes that has landed me back in hospital, each time I reverted back with drug therapy. I also have lots of pac's and pvc's. When they flare up I can get them every third or fourth heartbeat, including runs of bigeminy last anything up to 15 hours a day. Up until about 6 months ago I've been able to pretty well manage the flare ups by watching what I eat. However, in the last 6 month's I have been unable to control the flare ups as well as I would like. Things that I eat that never affect my pac's now appear to be causing problems for me. I certainly understand the problems you mentioned with having to conduct presentations or meetings at work. If my heart is jumping around I am unable to focus on anything being said in the meeting. I also need to travel to Asia. 6 months ago I didn't have a real problem with this, but now I certainly do have a proble, as it just adds to the stress and anxiety of it all. Please let me know how you get on with the Toprol ER. I am curently on Flecainide, which has been great but appears to be losing it's effectiveness for me. My cardiologist has recommended that I also take a small dose of Atenolol (12.5 mg), together with the Flecainide which I'm trying to avoid. I've also been told that there is a new Atrial specific antiarrythmic drug that will be out in about 2 years in Aus and it looks very promising. It may already be out in the US. I don't have the name but I'm sure someone who reads this thread may know what it's called. I'm also very tired of faking that nothing is wrong with me, it's getting much harder to function and it is depressing. Hope you get relief with the Toprol.
  

[Michael J. McWilliams, M.D.]

#1 Is this effective medicine to curb these nasty things?  

In some people beta blockers will decrease PACs, it does not help others.

#2 Does Pulomnary Vein Iso get rid of PAC's?  I can hold me breath and I don't have them, When I take a deeper breath they hit.  

It depends on where they originate from.  PVs are a common source of PACs.  The only way to know for sure where they originate is to have catheters in the left atrium.

#3 Is there an ablation for PAC's We have to be sensitive to something, chemical changes etc. why can't this be figured out?

Ablations can target PACs but they all have to be the same shape.  If you have PACs from many locations, it is likely to prove difficult to ablate them all.


  #4 I've been taking magnesium-taurate for several months 800mg. It seemed to help the SVT and all other until now.  Do you see any danger in taking a mag suplement?

I have never been a big fan of supplements.  I think to justify spending money on a supplement, they need to actually study it and prove that works and also ensure that they are all as pure as they are billed.  I never recommend them, but will admit that they only rarely do harm.  There is probably little risk to magnesium supplements.

#5 Every ablation seems there are "new" spots to ablate.  Is that just an ongoing thing with everyone?  I read people had recorded rythms and when the procedure is done those could not be intiated but another one was found etc.  Are we chasing our tails here?  I'm at wits end and tired of being a tough guy after ten years this is hard to deal with.

There are some people that can just not be ablated.  As soon as you get rid of one focus, it seems like another one pops up.  It is unfortunately true that we cannot cure everyone of symptomatic PACs.


  #6 When is this considered a disability?
That is a judgement call.  I think it would be very difficult to prove a case of disability from PACs and I am sure that disability would have a lot of questions about it.  I would also worry that being labeled "disabled" could lead to more disability by no longer being active and having more time to think about it.

If you haven't gone back to Dr. Natale, it might be worth talking to him again.  He will give you an honest answer on whether or not he thinks your PACs can be cured with ablation and is incredibly gifted.

I hope this helps.  Thanks for posting and I hope you feel better soon.

[tsco]

Thanks for your comments. It is really hard to put on and act like nothing is wrong.