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PVC PAC WARNING
Be very careful when you do any form of excercise or a rise in your pulse rate that will cause you to have a PVC or PAC! After doing much research this can be a portend of something not being right with your heart. They all say that "in the structure of a normal heart"....they never ever mention BUT pay particular attention with excercise. Cardios' always omit that tiny little word that can cause all sorts of problems. Can anyone of you lay your hand on your heart and say that you have heard your cardio say that? because I never did - and believe me I have been to many. So the warning is PVC or whatever stay well away from any form of excercise - believe me I know, much to my mistake.
My son is seeing an electrophysiologist and is going to Mayo in October. He's been tested for 13 known bad genes and he doesn't have any. HCM was one of the first things they ruled out. My brother had no secondary on his death certificate but it was in 1996 and they hadn't discovered hardly any gene mutations yet nor the tests for them so we'll never get an answer for him. They've also ran tests on me. They only show a murmur and both my son and I have braycardia.
Heartaware - I do have pvc's on occassion but, I only notice them because of my heart monitor. I really don't think they have anything to do with my son having suffered scd and I think you still need to exercise, even if you have them a lot.
Heartaware - I do have pvc's on occassion but, I only notice them because of my heart monitor. I really don't think they have anything to do with my son having suffered scd and I think you still need to exercise, even if you have them a lot.
I'm not sure exactly where you got the information on HCM having fatty tissue in it. I would be curious to know about that. HCM does have a genetic marker and families that have this disease running through their genes generally have several family members with HCM. These families also have problems with SCD, especially at young ages. One of my close friends has a husband and two daughters who fall into that catagory. One of their daughters died at the age of 13. The other daughter had to have a ICD implanted because she was having serious arrhythmia problems in the cath lab. When a heart has this type of cardiomyopathy the muscles become fibrous and the fibers that run through the muscle stiffen the muscle wall so that it cannot expand properly and fill. This is why patients with HCM have Diastolic Heart Failure. Once the heart walls reach a certain point this type of cardiomyopathy can be classified as a Restrictive Cardiomyopathy and in the end stages of this disease, the walls start to thin out and the patient goes on to develop Systolic Heart failure. If the wall thicknesses are very severe there can be bridging of muscle fibers that criss-cross through the chambers, making the relaxation of the heart even worse. The type of arrhythmias that you have will probably never cause you to have a SCD. The arrhythmias that do that come from the ventricles, not the atrium. If a person has HCM and has arrhythmias in the upper chambers of the heart (atrium) then they are at risk of a SCD; the reason for that is because the upper chambers of the heart are beating too fast for the damaged lower pumping chambers to keep up. The lower chambers become irritable and start to fire off electrical impulses on their own and that can develop into ventricular tachycardia, which can lead to ventricular fibrillation which leads to death, if not stopped.
It's very scary to hear of people dropping dead from an arrhythmia of unknown origin. I agree that we are only in the early innings of understanding exactly what goes on. Doctors have made great progress so far in identifying risk factors of SCD, and a diagnosis that excludes HCM, WPW, Brugda, Long QT etc, is a good one. I am in that category of patients who have very scary symptoms like PVC's, Reentry tachycardia, atrial flutter and escape rhythms but who the doctors say will be fine. I trust their eveluation but I still think I have a much higher chance of SCD than the general population.
Has anyone heard of genetic testing for heart conditions? It is more popular in the UK than in the US. From what I have read, it seems that there is a subset of HCM that is mostly undetectible on an echo and involves there being a lot of the myocardium that turns to fat and is therefore less stable than a normal heart with all muscle. Scientists have isolated 9 gene mutations that contribute to this form of SCD. If you are ruled not to have it and all the other tests shake out well, they can give you more certainty about not being at risk of SCD. There are likely many more causes, ones that we will perhaps never know how to predict or solve, but I thought this was an interesting development worthy of mention.
Has anyone heard of genetic testing for heart conditions? It is more popular in the UK than in the US. From what I have read, it seems that there is a subset of HCM that is mostly undetectible on an echo and involves there being a lot of the myocardium that turns to fat and is therefore less stable than a normal heart with all muscle. Scientists have isolated 9 gene mutations that contribute to this form of SCD. If you are ruled not to have it and all the other tests shake out well, they can give you more certainty about not being at risk of SCD. There are likely many more causes, ones that we will perhaps never know how to predict or solve, but I thought this was an interesting development worthy of mention.
Brian, you're right about the death certificate saying what you wrote; chances are it would say something like: "death due to cardiac arrhythmia (and possibly: 'secondary to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy') The two athlets you wrote about more than likely died from V-tact secondary to HCM. They didn't, more than likely, die of a heart attack which is a whole different story. HCM patients can have heart attacks all the time IF their walls had progressed to such a thickness that the blood supply (which is located on the top of the heart) has been outstripped. If that had been the case, neither of these athlets would have died on the field because they wouldn't have been able to have been playing anything. Patients like I'm writing about have Grade III-IV heart disease and have angina even at rest and more than likely would be on oxygen. These guys wouldn't have been able to play; they died from the arrhythmia, not from a heart attack. That arrhythmia was secondary to the HCM.
Pamz, I was really sorry to hear what your son went through. I strongly advice you to have him rechecked at a facility that deals with this form of heart disease. It is rare, especially in young people and most doctors can spend a lifetime in medicine and never see a case of it in their practice. They may not even recognize it when it is actually there. HCM patients also develop A-Fib and A-Flutter. The fact that you say thatr you know he has inherited this from your side of the family, says volumes. Your own brother died at 22 and your son almost died at the same age; that is a good indication that HCM is running through your family. If you go back and really study your family history, you may find that others have died at early ages. HCM may show up later in your son's life, but may not be evident yet. If his heart is normal at this point, structurally, the only way they would probably be able to tell if HCM is there is to do a heart biopsy and they are not going to do that to be able to know, not at this point anyway; there are too many risks involved with that and your son is already protected with the implant (thank goodness,right!?) You should see a geneticist and find out if the gene for HCM is actually there. You should also be tested for this disease and if you have it, have an EP Study done to make sure that you do not have arrhythmia problems. I hope you are all doing well at this point! Having something like that happening must have scared you have to death!!
Pamz, I was really sorry to hear what your son went through. I strongly advice you to have him rechecked at a facility that deals with this form of heart disease. It is rare, especially in young people and most doctors can spend a lifetime in medicine and never see a case of it in their practice. They may not even recognize it when it is actually there. HCM patients also develop A-Fib and A-Flutter. The fact that you say thatr you know he has inherited this from your side of the family, says volumes. Your own brother died at 22 and your son almost died at the same age; that is a good indication that HCM is running through your family. If you go back and really study your family history, you may find that others have died at early ages. HCM may show up later in your son's life, but may not be evident yet. If his heart is normal at this point, structurally, the only way they would probably be able to tell if HCM is there is to do a heart biopsy and they are not going to do that to be able to know, not at this point anyway; there are too many risks involved with that and your son is already protected with the implant (thank goodness,right!?) You should see a geneticist and find out if the gene for HCM is actually there. You should also be tested for this disease and if you have it, have an EP Study done to make sure that you do not have arrhythmia problems. I hope you are all doing well at this point! Having something like that happening must have scared you have to death!!
My son was jogging and dropped, sudden cardiac death. He was revived and then defibrillated twice to get his heart rate half way back to normal before he was life-flighted and rec'd a pacemaker/defibrillator. He was 23 at the time. He does not suffer from HCM or any other heart disease and his heart is structurally normal. Now, he is suffering from pvc's and Afib but no one knows why and they can not say if he suffered from this prior to his scd. So, his only diagnosis as of right now, 1 1/2 years later, is cardiac arrhythmia. My brother died at 22 and his death cert states cardiac arrhythmia. He was breaking up cement, very strenuous. My point is that not all problems involving the heart have been discovered yet so, a cardio is not always going to be able to determine if there is a problem. However, exercise is still one of the best things for your heart so you can't stop because of fear of something that may never happen. My son still jogs even though his defibrillator goes off on him. I still jog even though I know he inherited something from my side of the family and I could possibly suffer from the same thing.
i understand about hypertrophic myopathies. but when an arrhytmia is caused by that and it killed the athlete, no where in the death report does it say, "athlete died from arrhytmia caused by pvc's. i've read about a few soccer players that died from heart diseases. feher and foe are just a couple. feher and foe suffered a heart attack due to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. a run of pvc's can turn into vtach. but most of the time is due to some other abnormality not just pvc's alone. but i enjoyed what one doctor said, when asked if pvc's are dangerous he responded, "crossing the street can be dangerous but almost never is." athletes that die from a sudden arrhythmia are usually found to have some sort of heart disease. if no disease is found than i believe the hand of God came down to take you and it was just your time! but dying that way is like being struck by lightning or having a tre fall on you. it can happen, but rarely happens to ANYONE.
When the patient complained to the doctor that a certain area hurt when he pressed it, the doctor said: " Then don't press it!" The more you worry about things, the worse it will get because of the adrenaline your body is now producing. The variation in the rates are more than likely due to your increased breathing. Go out and exercise and hike and go biking. People who have severe heart disease even do things like that on a daily basis. My own daughter was in severe heart failure and working when they called to tell us her new heart was available! She couldn't do a lot of things but she always tried. We would walk the dogs every night together and we had to stop every 20 feet or so because she was having chest pain. She too had some life threatening arrhythmias, but she kept going. Don't throw your life away because of PACs which everyone on the planet has anyway. The good Lord knew what he was doing when he created our hearts; one of the things he did was to allow all of the heart cells to fire off impulses so we would have a back up system in the heart.
PVC's associated with exercise or cooloing down after exercise may have a link to CAD when the PVCs are associated with tachycardia or happen in a row - what tests were done to rule out CAD? how old was ur husband?
I have not been myself for a week since i first felt my still undiagnosed PVC or PAC which is what they think (PAC). my stress test is on fri and my holter has not been read yet - i'm on vacation doing this instead of hiking, biking and running b/c i'm so scared - i sit here checking my pulse wondering if my heart speed up for those 10 seconds, why my resting HR was 57, then 63, was that a palp, was is gas - it is maddening. help
any reassuring posts are welcomed
I have not been myself for a week since i first felt my still undiagnosed PVC or PAC which is what they think (PAC). my stress test is on fri and my holter has not been read yet - i'm on vacation doing this instead of hiking, biking and running b/c i'm so scared - i sit here checking my pulse wondering if my heart speed up for those 10 seconds, why my resting HR was 57, then 63, was that a palp, was is gas - it is maddening. help
any reassuring posts are welcomed
You wrote a very good post however, there are a couple of things I would like to comment on. Athlets who die suddenly die because of Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathies (HCM). The heart wall is too thick and because of that, these patients are prone to having arrhythmia problems and sudden death. Without the HCM, they would have been fine, for the most part. Sudden death in adults is said to be about 2%. PVCs can develop into V-Tact and/or V-Fib, however, single, couplets, even a trigemeny PVC run isn't probably going to do that. Everyone on the planet has these happening over the course of the day; how important it becomes in one's life, determines how it will affect that person's life.
i agree with grendslori. people come here for mental support. your post was a nightmare post for pvc and pac sufferers. I too have suffered from pvc's pacs and afib. i'm only 26. my pvc's started at 23. I have seen over 10 doctors from different hospitals who all have said the same thing ,"in a healthy heart pvc's dont mean anything.... and even in unhealthy hearts they dont really point to anything! everyone gets them... only an unlucky few get to feel all of them!" I have done a ton of research and find that i know just as much about the heart as students going to medical school. Your post was very misplaced. You say that your husband had pvc's but died from a M.I.(heart attack). im sorry to imform you, but the two are NOT the same. a heart attack is from blocked arteries in the heart that damage the heart muscle from lack of blood flow to an area of the heart. The lack of blood flow to an area of the heart can damage the heart causing a serious arrhythmia. PVC's and Pac's, on the other hand are from irritable foci in the heart. PVC's are just that..... PVC's. Pvc's were are one point thought to be dangerous, but that was a long time ago! (60's and 70's). after many studies they have been found to not have any affect on a persons mortality than a person who has no pvc's whatsoever! no where in your post did you say,"the doctors told me my husband died from pvc's." you posted "my husband died from a heart attack". PVC's do not cause a heart attack. Pvc's do not cause vtach or vfib! or else vtach and vfib would be called "a form of pvc's". athletes dying from a serious arrhytmia is a very rare occurance, which is why we hear about it when it happens! if it occured all the time, everyday, it would be a normality! it would be as normal as death itself! but since its not, it makes the news! so, please, dont come into a forum where people who suffer mentally from pvc's and try to call a heart attack death a pvc death, because it just scares people. saying someone died from a heart attack is the same as dying from a pvc is like calling a heart attack death the same as a death from a plane crash! it makes no sense.
Heartwave, I'm sorry for you that you lost your husband in this way. He did not die from PVCs/PACs. A MI is a lack of blood flow to the heart, it could have been he had constricting arteries and not blocked arteries. The result could be the same. People do drop dead as have some of the sports players that everyone hears about. They have a form of Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy which is a diseased heart muscle; sometimes this is a genetic form of heart disease. (The sudden death rate in HCM is about 2%) ALL people on the planet have premature beats; that's normal. All cells in the heart have the capacity to beat on their own; it's the 'back up' system for the heart. I agree with those above who have written about this being a scary post for them; you must consider the patients who are on here looking for support and help so they can put to rest some of their fears. I understand that you were trying to warn your fellow posters, but you need a lot more validated information before writing a post like this.
True dat! If it IS what kills us, it will be quick and we won't even know it. Unlike some of the people I see on a daily basis.
I am not trying to be funny but I have noticed that the people that live the longest and never get sick have a clear head. This is probably because they don't let the normal stressors of day to day life bother them.
Most of us that have palps with no obvious cause are probably do to stress and anxiety like the doctors tell us. Too much strees on any of the organs of the human body is going to cause a problem sooner or later I think.
I know it is easier said than done, but if we all worried a little less about the little things our PVC's would decrease dramatically.
There is one thing that we can all be sure of in this world and that is that one day we are all going to die. The trick is to try not to think about it all the time. I know it is hard once we find out we have these conditions but we all have to try.
Most of us that have palps with no obvious cause are probably do to stress and anxiety like the doctors tell us. Too much strees on any of the organs of the human body is going to cause a problem sooner or later I think.
I know it is easier said than done, but if we all worried a little less about the little things our PVC's would decrease dramatically.
There is one thing that we can all be sure of in this world and that is that one day we are all going to die. The trick is to try not to think about it all the time. I know it is hard once we find out we have these conditions but we all have to try.
I too I am scared to death when I read this. I am currently on the King of Hearts monitor. I have had the echos, ekgs, stress test (radioactive). THey say my heart is structurally normal. I just keep having pacs, pvcs, some nsvt. My Dr did call me this morning to say he is going to refer me to a specialist at Duke to see if they can help me. I am so scared that I am going to drop dead any moment and then to read that someone has scares me. I wonder how many people that have been on this forum have actually died and we don't know because we just don't ever hear from them again.
Anita
Anita
Wow, I am sitting here really anxious, but, thanks to RNRita and others, I am calmed down again. I know you hurt heartaware and I am so sorry for what happened, but, maybe a post like this would be better in the form of a journal. All I know is that most of us are petrified anyway, (me included) and when we read things like this, our brains sort of go into over-drive and we don't think too straight, at least I don't.
I hate to exercise, I use to love it, but sometimes I get those dang things, but my doctor said I must at least walk or else I will loose what good health I have, she said to remember that I had all the tests, they were good and to try to remain calm. I do know that if your heart is damaged from an MI that the PVC's/PAC's are not quite as benign, but my dear mother had them all her life, then went into a-fib, had a few heart attacks the last ten years of her life, and she lived to be 81, she was basically healthy otherwise and she had a great life. I wish I had her attitude.
Again, I am so sorry about your loss heartaware, I know it must have been horrible for you. God bless and take care. Hugs.
I hate to exercise, I use to love it, but sometimes I get those dang things, but my doctor said I must at least walk or else I will loose what good health I have, she said to remember that I had all the tests, they were good and to try to remain calm. I do know that if your heart is damaged from an MI that the PVC's/PAC's are not quite as benign, but my dear mother had them all her life, then went into a-fib, had a few heart attacks the last ten years of her life, and she lived to be 81, she was basically healthy otherwise and she had a great life. I wish I had her attitude.
Again, I am so sorry about your loss heartaware, I know it must have been horrible for you. God bless and take care. Hugs.
I know that it must be so hard to loose the one you love that way;but I think that there must have been another issue with his heart besides PVC or PAC's I have had this for 20 years and SVT and I walk for exercise and it always seems to help me. So when I saw your post like everyone else it scared the grab out of me. And I am very sorry for your lose but lets not scare people to death that are all ready scared.
A massive MI? Read here: http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/MYOCARD/MYOCARD.html When you see what happens with arrhythmia and sudden death, these are not PVCs, but a cardiac arrhythmia that happens after the MI which can cause the event. Anyone can get this. Some will say that people suffering from PVCs have more of a chance, but you have to have the MI first. If you don't exercise, your heart will have more of a chance to have an MI in the first place. There are top athletes who drop dead, yes we've heard this. I've asked my cardio about it. He stated that they had a genetic defect that is NOT what I have. Who knows if they are being truthful because they know if they told us we had a higher chance to have an arrhythmia after an MI it could kill us. We would all sit around for the rest of our miserable lives. We already do so much less than others. I am so sorry about your husband. How old was he? My mother had PVCs all her life and two MIs, with heart disease. She also had a-fib, svt, and the lot. She died at 77 years old of COPD, MI, and sepsis. I don't think I want to be an invalid for the rest of my life. Also, I experience more PVCs when relaxed...so who is to say what will actually kill me?
Forgot to add that I too suffer from PVC's too, and that since Feb of this year they have only just started to play up with exercise. Normally when they were bad ( I suffered more than my husband) if we went out on our bikes then they would go away, but not anymore. I have runs of them during and after - and like my late husband was told that they were nothing. I wonder if sometimes if these cardios' are fed up with people going to their office with these PVC's when there is nothing (apart from betablockers) they can do for us, but tell us it's all in our mind - yeah right like we enjoy wasting our time and money.
I have not done any exercise since my Husbands death, and I intend to go and see several more Cardios' before I get into the saddle again - armed with much more information than I had before.
You know the real sad thing that I am having to come to terms with is? Is that I stayed away from the internet about PVC's during exercise, as I know that there is a lot of bad and yes good information in the internet. If I had only googled it then maybe my William would be with me here today.
Sorry to everyone if I have sent your PVC into overdrive, but I found this site by google and found the info in the Dr's forum where someone asked the Doc the very same question.
I have not done any exercise since my Husbands death, and I intend to go and see several more Cardios' before I get into the saddle again - armed with much more information than I had before.
You know the real sad thing that I am having to come to terms with is? Is that I stayed away from the internet about PVC's during exercise, as I know that there is a lot of bad and yes good information in the internet. If I had only googled it then maybe my William would be with me here today.
Sorry to everyone if I have sent your PVC into overdrive, but I found this site by google and found the info in the Dr's forum where someone asked the Doc the very same question.
Sorry if my posting seemed to be all statements without evidence, but the story is that my Husband in April went for a full cardio workout - because he suffered with PVC's for many years and was always told they were stress related etc. Everythiing was fine EF was good no CAD no narrowing of the ateries etc., and he was told to carry on as usual with his exercise regime of cycling everyday - they were benign etopic beats and his heart was in excellent conditio.
He was out cycling back at the end of April when I received a phone call from the ER to get there ASAP. By the time I arrived they told me that he had had a massive M I.
I buried him on the 1st May at 12-15.
I challenged the Cardio toe to toe about this, I was and still am stunned about his death. He quoted something from the New England Journal about people with PVC's and exercise and that the mortality rate was higher if you experienced PVC's after working out - why did he not tell us? Well he had an answer of course - who knows why it happened. It was just one of those things, like when you hear about top athletes dropping dead. Some comfort!
So if my posting frightened anyone I am VERY sorry, it's just I'm so upset about it all and fed up with Cardios' not citing this finding in the NEJ
He was out cycling back at the end of April when I received a phone call from the ER to get there ASAP. By the time I arrived they told me that he had had a massive M I.
I buried him on the 1st May at 12-15.
I challenged the Cardio toe to toe about this, I was and still am stunned about his death. He quoted something from the New England Journal about people with PVC's and exercise and that the mortality rate was higher if you experienced PVC's after working out - why did he not tell us? Well he had an answer of course - who knows why it happened. It was just one of those things, like when you hear about top athletes dropping dead. Some comfort!
So if my posting frightened anyone I am VERY sorry, it's just I'm so upset about it all and fed up with Cardios' not citing this finding in the NEJ
This post is quite incoherent. The poster gives no evidence to backup the stated claim.
Do you mind telling us from where you got this info Heartaware?
Do you mind telling us from where you got this info Heartaware?
Since my PVC's increased quite a bit in the recovery period of my stress test (even having triplets) I'm going to focus on your statement about "ambiguity in these studies." I think they try to understand cause and effect of arrhythmias but I think arrhy's are just little mysteries. I'm trying to think of the word and can't right now.
I know that when I exercise, I have to slow down before I stop or my heart will protest. I can't suddenly take off running or climbing a hill (can't run anyway or my heart gets angry) and I sure don't stop suddenly after exerting myself. That stress test business does just that - they get you all worked up and sweaty and then tell you to go lay down. No, no, no. Doesn't work for me.
I know that when I exercise, I have to slow down before I stop or my heart will protest. I can't suddenly take off running or climbing a hill (can't run anyway or my heart gets angry) and I sure don't stop suddenly after exerting myself. That stress test business does just that - they get you all worked up and sweaty and then tell you to go lay down. No, no, no. Doesn't work for me.
Holy moly, this post almost made me need Depends undergarments!!!! Not out of fear of exercising, but out of fear that anyone will stop doing what their hearts need to be healthy by reading this! If you're going to die from PVCs while exercising, believe me, sitting in a chair the rest of your life will make it that much shorter! If your heart would stop because of exercise, you weren't going to live long anyway. Please be careful what you post here, really. There is no medical data to suggest that exercising with PVCs or PACs will cause any cardiac event. Shock/stress something like that would be MUCH more likely, if it were going to happen.
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