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214277 tn?1211817033

PVC's and PACs

ok so i have now had these for 2 years and they drive me crazy. i get to the point that it stresses me out and i want to cry. i lay down in bed at night and it starts, i am doing my stuff during the day and they happen. they ruin my days and are ruining my life. i have kids, i stay active, i walk daily and i will be having a great day til the first one hits for the day and then it is down hill from there. i have seen my cardiologist for my round of yearly tests this year, i never have any arrithymia when i am at the dr doing any of my test but shortly after they start again. i had my stress test done and no change since that year a good thing, i have recently for the first time done a nuclear stress test and all is well. sooooooo what do i do. i take 250 magnesium, i take flaxseed oil and i still have these things. i am again going to start an event monitor tomorrow so i can make sure once again, which i know, i am having pvs and pacs,... i just dont know how to get past this and know that i am ok. i know i am physically but mentally i am not and i think they are going to kill me sooner or later., i just hate the way they feel and i hate how they make me feel. i am debating on going on an anxierty medication to see if i can get rid of the thoughts i have, i feel like i am a hypocondriac cuz of this, any advise?? i dont know what to do anymore.
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Avatar universal
Had ablation couple weeks ago and it actuallly made the Pvc,s more frequent at times, had way to many spots to ablate so he picked the strongest ones, he said I could not have a pacemaker so had he to be carefull. I do notice I don't feel them near as much and when I walk and move around  I don't get any hardley,but gets much worse when laying around and going to sleep can be a problem. Been very depressed after the ablation, because they [pvc's] were getting much worse month by month and I have other serious med problems I thought any releif would help. So now I can move around more but I avoid laying down now! I remember a few years ago I only had 5 or 6 a day and finaly went up to few hundred to 2000 a day and in the evening it was getting worse and worse. I think the main thing is feeling the dam things. Am going to try Omega 3 don't see why it would help though. Mind over body is a tough thing to accomplish. I try to pretend it is a normal part of me now and not to try to think of them as much individually or that will drive you nuts.I have 24/7 muscle twitching from nerve damage, drove me insane for years, but I find Pvc's harder to deal with because mine come and go all day long and you never know what to expect! Toprol works sometimes for me if I want to take a nap,but lowers blood pressure to about 95 over 55, have low blood pressure already [am 59].Oh, Momto3 how frequent are your Pvc"s and do you get breaks from them sometimes?
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Avatar universal
I can empathize.  Try Omega 3 (get a good brand at a real Health food store) - it worked for me.  Watch you caffeine and cardiac stimulants - like sentimental thoughts!  I would up your magnesium to 500mg and make sure you eat a banana a day (especially if salt intake is high).  Remember if you have a normal heart and you have been checked out - they are benign - don't think about them and they will go away.  I strongly urge that you try Omega 3.  This has even helped me with my atrial fibrillation and virtually ridded me of PVCs - I take 3 grams per day.  
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257552 tn?1404602554
Hi,

Breathing, something that I hope other comment on as well, does indeed seem to have influence on some types of arrhythmias.

One thing that you may never have heard of, and is a normal part of all of us, likely most if not all mammals as well, is Respiratory Sinus Arrhythmia, or RSA for short. With RSA, as we breathe in, our heart rate increases, and as we breathe out, it decreases. There are several reasons theorized for why this happens. Google Respiratory Sinus Arrhythmia and read some of the interesting articles found.

Basically, the Body has an Autonomic Nervous System, something that is "Automatic" and not something you can directly control. Two parts of this Autonomic Nervous System have influence on the Heart. The Sympathetic and Parasympathetic.

The Sympathetic acts on your heart to speed it up, useful in situations such as "Fight or Flight" syndrome, where your Body expects you to need to do something to save your life, an animal instinct. Problem is that in modern society, the reflex of the "Fight or Flight" can cause us much grief. Even if you are mad at your boss, you can't fight him, and if you flee (flight), you'll be fired. Not nice. So we have this mechanism that constantly prepares our bodies for an situation that cannot occur. It's tough on the body.

Yet, the Parasympathetic Nervous System acts directly on your Heart to slow it down just after the fear has subsided. This is accomplished through the Vagal Nerve. Search for [ Vagus Nerve Wiki ] on Google, without the brackets. The Vagal Nerve acts on the Sino Atrial  (SA) Node, the Heart's natural Pacemaker. If the Vagal Nerve acted too strongly on your SA Node, you heart would stop, if not for another ingenious aspect of the Heart's electrical system, the Atrio Ventricular (AV) Node. The AV Node waits for the pulse from the SA Node, but if it fails to occur, the AV node discharges on its own, producing a Heart Beat. So, the AV Node covers for an overly aggressive Vagal Nerve influence on the Heart and the sometimes the natural loss of the SA Node as we age.

The AV Node fires slower than the SA Node, remember, it's waiting for the SA Node to discharge, it needs to give it some time. So, with some people, as they age, and the SA Node goes bad, they have a slow heart beat (Bradycardia), and need to get an Artificial  Pacemaker. It will discharge when the SA Node fails to, and keep the heart rate high enough to prevent the person from having symptoms from a slow heart beat.

But, the only part that concerns you is the Vagal Nerve acting to slow your heart. If you are breathing fast and shallow, your heart is constantly increasing and decreasing in rate (see RSA above). In addition, breathing shallow does not get the proper exchange of Oxygen and CO2 in the Lungs. I had read, and another forum member posted a comment about, a young woman that had an arrhythmia that her Doctors were unable to control with medication. They discovered that by teaching her to breath deeply, and only 6 times a minute, her arrhythmia would go away. I am not suggesting that you breathe so infrequently, but I am suggesting that you become aware of your Breathing, and perhaps ask your Doctor for recommendations on how to learn to breathe correctly.

Breathing too fast (Hyperventilation) keeps too much Oxygen in the Lungs. Because of this, a person’s system ends up with too much Oxygen. No big deal, right. But because a person hyperventilating has too much Oxygen, they have too little CO2. Believe it or not, the shortage of CO2 actually causes (or can cause) the symptoms associated with Hyperventilation. Google [CO2 Hyperventilation wiki ] without the brackets.

Personally, I had a few months where I would get Trigeminy on and off throughout the day. Two normal beats and a PVC, occurring for an hour or so at a time. I discovered that if I took a deep breath and held it, the Trigeminy would stop for as long as I held my breath, and a little after I started to breathe again. Of course it was not practical to hold my breath all the time, nor even possible, but it did show to me the influence that breathing has on the heart rhythm.

Hope this helps.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
The other thing that has helped tremendously is visiting this forum.

Until I found Momto3(Connie), and others, who have extremely high frequency pvcs, I thought I was the only one. Although I would never want anybody to have pvcs, not even one pvc, AND I hope anyone who sufferes from them finds relief, it was a relief to me to find these people. That was something "new" and helpful.

Reading other posts, and sharing my own story has been helpful to me, and I hope I've given just one person some comfort in knowing that 20,000+/day is not life threatening. That reassurance is what we want if we can't necessarily be free of them. :-) lol
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Avatar universal
I want to thank all of you and especially Artaud for the great replies--you help not only the person posting the question, but many others who are in similar situations. I am 5 years post ablation for IST and suffer with frequent PVC's, PAC's and bigeminy. For me, it has truly become a battle between my heart and my mind. I know that the PVC's are benign, but yet every time I get them, my mind still races with "what if I'm not ok this time?" I developed IST after the birth of my daughter 6 years ago and I very much want to have another child, yet the fear of heart issues keeps holding me back. I have been cleared by two EP's to try for another child, yet these stupid PVC's scare me so much that I'm afraid to go forward. I experienced cardiomyopathy between my two ablations, so I think I fear that the most. Anyway, it is good to come here and hear from others who have battled the same things and understand the fears. These things have altered my life drastically and I am just so ready to move forward and live the life that I want.  
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Avatar universal
I don't have an answer to your question regarding statin drugs, but I can say that anything I take that is supposed to help my blood be "thinner" like vitamin E and or fish oils (especially fish oils), makes my pvcs go up, up, up.

It would seem logical that it should be the other way around, that these things should help, but vitamin E, fish oil, and maybe flaxseed oil exacerbate my pvcs.

I do understand your complete hatred of the sensation of them. I like to describe my pvcs as having someone tap me on the shoulder, pull the back of my hair and push me between the shoulder blades oh, about 15 times a minute!!! So I know that feeling them is a great hurdle to get past. I have sometimes been amuzed, angered, frightened  by this sensation all the day long, and sometimes just in despair that it will never stop. I have searched for the past 25 years and not found anything "new" with respect to research on pvcs. Beta-blockers might lessen the sensation, but others like myself have found the extra contraction to be more forceful when their heart rate slows. Also, of the three BB I've tried, all seem to give me more side effects than the pvcs themselves, so which is better? I do take the occassional 1/2 tab of .25mg xanax and that lessens my worry over them. But it's all I've found in 25 years.
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376186 tn?1219279505
I too can relate to you and everything that you are experiencing. I have had these pesty PVC's on and for about 20 yrs....they seemed to increase after I had an ablation in 1993 and I have tried to find a way to decrease them, reading everything that I can and just trying to get as much info as I can.....not much works to tell you the truth even tho I take about 500 mg of Mag every day, also fish oil and a multi. I also drink a lot of water throughout the day, no caffeine, no chocolate or hardly any (I do cheat from time to time) ditto no alcohol, take a walk most every day, and so it goes.....sometimes it just seems that no matter what I do or do not do, they are w/me and just about drive me nuts. I am 62 so for you youngsters, just try not to obsess to much and let them ruin your life!!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I think it is common knowledge in this forum that PVC's are not going to kill us. Perhaps there could be better research into drugs or procedures that prevent us from feeling them ? I have no problem having them. I do have issue feeling them. I never get used to them when they are bad.Is there any research ongoing, or are we all s.o.l. having to deal with them forever?  Clearly a lot of people have them, as they actually made a forum just on heart rythym here.
On another note, has anyone gotten worsening of their PVC's from taking a statin drug? I seem to be intolerant of these drugs and have tried Crestor, Lipitor and Lescol. My PVC's go absolutely nuts when I take them.
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214277 tn?1211817033
thank you for your comments. with mine they can be gone for 2 months then boom they come back again out of the blue. now i didnt have these before 2 years ago or at least i dont think so what i was wondering is why did they start and where do they come from. why all of a sudden and they dont go away. is it better for your heart to have more then less or does it matter, like when they are gone for months or hours then a random few come just as quick as they are gone again?>?? im really trying to cope with these. can you bring them on yourself by the way you breathe or when you are working out and you stop to take your pulse??? i get them then so am i doing something to cause them to happen more??/ they are very strange to me.
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Avatar universal
Hello there,

Mine started when I was 20 and now 25. I have been to ER everytime I've had them for a few weeks and pain develops (mind over matter I suppose) and everytime I am cleared as VERY healthy.

I've now learnt to handle them to a degree but still get scared. We all know that without the mind or heart, we are dead. So yes, this fear is real :)

I am now investigating my triggers. I never had them and then they just appeared at 20. My life was very stressful from young, started working at 14 so perhaps it is stress and anxiety related.

I am looking into everything. I am thankful for going through the GP, Cardio and ER visits with nothing wrong with me, yes they cant explain my PAC's, PVC's or SVT's which just happens but i've spent enough money to know to stop fretting. I don't have cash to see people anymore and sure as hell not gonna spend a cent more on being told I am 100% fine ;)

Take it easy, get exercise and one thing I've learnt is not to focus on yourself. They even said this in the Buddhist faith :) But it is true, when you make yourself the center of everything you heighten your awareness of your problems and will trigger these emotions or attacks. I still get them when I am focusing on others or other activities, but I don't get them as much as I used to esp. when going to bed, when everything is calm and its just me and my heart. I now make a point of listening to music / radio while letting my mind wonder on other things :) Until its lights out.

After a night like this, they return after about 2 weeks. Longest stretch as been 1 1/2 months. This coming from someone who suffered every day for 4 years!

Good luck and try what I said ;)
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Avatar universal
and to add to Artaud's post, don't avoid exercise. A sedentary lifestyle is definitely more of a risk factor for cardiovascular disease. Despite having pvcs before, during and after exercise, I still make sure I get at least 30 minutes of treadmill every other day. In fact, when my heart rate goes above 120-130bpm, it's the only time I don't think I have pvcs. I'm not certain, but I don't feel them and the heart rate monitor doesn't show any pauses. Even up to 120bpm it shows the pauses, many of them.

So long as you've been cleared and told your heart is structually fine, exercise is good for you. I hope the event monitor picks up the arrythimia, I know you are frustrated that it hasn't been "captured" yet, except by you feeling it. If they capture it on tape and it's a pvc, I hope that you will be able to take comfort in the party line--: pvcs=benign, benign. Let us know how it goes.
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257552 tn?1404602554
Hi,

If your Doctor has repeatedly said that your Heart is Structurally Sound, you are making the mistake that your arrhythmia is seriously abnormal and needs to be corrected. Unfortunately, less than perfect rhythms are not that uncommon. Many people have very significant benign arrhythmias, to the point that my wife says that for some, (she works for my Cardiologist) she can't even take their pulse due to the number of PVCs. Funny thing is that some of these patients have no idea that they have an arrhythmia. They are tested, EKGs and such, more if required, but if everything is OK, she says that the Doctor will sometimes send them on their way without informing them of the arrhythmia for fear that they'll obsess about them. Their hearts are healthy, despite the variance in rhythm.

A person that has a benign arrhythmia and is aware of it, and a person that has an identically benign arrhythmia and is not aware of it are no different with the exception of the awareness. One of my Coworkers, years ago, developed an arrhythmia and had to be hospitalized, his heart rhythm was seriously disturbed. They thought they were going to need to use Cardioversion to return his rhythm to normal, but they succeeded in doing so through medication. This man was off from work for a few months, eventually returning. He explained that a virus likely damaged his heart, and this was the reason for the hospitalization. They returned this man to work, my employer did a Return to Work physical, and he was determined to be fit for work. He worked a few more years then retired, and still lives today. Why do I tell you this? When he returned to work, he mentioned that his heart rhythm never returned to normal. Being inquisitive, I asked to take his pulse. To my astonishment,  it was all over the place, fast, slow, and PVCs galore. He had no rhythm that I could determine by taking his pulse. Yet his Doctors and my Employer’s Doctor felt that he was safe to return to work. Not only did his Doctors say he was safe to return to work, their opinion appears to have been correct, as he had no more problems that I am aware of. Yet I’ll bet his rhythm is far worse that yours will ever be.

It’s not the steady and rhythmic beat that solely determines whether the heart is healthy, there are other factors as well. Many people have rhythm disturbances that do not have any symptoms, but their heart rhythm may decay into Ventricular Tachycardia or Fibrillation with little warning. You likely have been tested and or monitored for these dangerous rhythms, and apparently have been cleared. Despite the unpleasant feeling, your heart will continue to plod along.

No Coffee, get more sleep, avoid tension, and study how controlling your breathing may help your heart rhythm.

Be well.
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214277 tn?1211817033
hey guys thanks for the response. i tell you i went for a smalll hike up this hill today and my heart was pounding so hard and here the PVCs come and i thought to myself this is it. my heart was pounding hard and fast from my walk up this huge hill that my son wanted to go up i get to the top and i get 2 really strong PVcs and my heart stops. its frusterates me so much. makes me not even want to do anything that has to do with exercise nothing. i am going to get an event monitor tomorrow and start recording these things again. i just dont want to be on meds that is why i try to take the flaxseed and mag but i tell you i just am at a loss. when they come i seriously think this is it, i just wish i didnt feel them. i love this site and everybodys imput and thank god i am not alone but it does really bring me down and bum me out that i started having these dreaded downer of an irregular heart beat.
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Avatar universal
Your story is my story. I've been living with constant pvc's for about 2 years.  Sometimes hours of bigemini. Have your tried inderal? I take 1/4 of a 10mg tablet. It dosen't get rid of them but it puts them in the back ground. I have days when I take 1/4 with breakfast and with dinner. At the most, I take it every 6 hours and some days I don't have to take it at all. I helps me get thru the day.

Art
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Avatar universal
I can relate.

But I can also tell you, pvcs will not kill you. They will ruin your life, but only if you let them.

I have had pvcs for 25 years. My last holter two years ago recorded an average of 1200/hr. I know I'm up from there. I get most of mine now in couplets and triplets then a normal beat or two, then another couplet and on and on and on. I'm still writing as they happen, and I can definitely tell you I'm still alive. As a matter of fact I think I'm going to enjoy the rest of the afternoon and have a glass of wine.....that always makes the pvcs worse, but I don't think they can be much higher! So pooh on them.

On Friday night I was at the point of thinking I would go the the E.R. for the first time in the history of having these stupid things, when I stopped in my tracks and thought "all they can do is put me on an anti-arrhythmic---and that more than anything scares the **** out of me. Pvcs I can mostly handle, drugs that could cause something worse, no thanks.

I do take the occassional xanax, (half a .25mg tab usually does it). Xanax does nothing for the pvc frequency, but it sure makes me fret less about them. Talk to your doctor about something that might help you cope better, and search the archives of this forum, there are lots of people with great suggestions on how to distract your self when they happen. Good luck. Please live your life to it's fullest extent don't let pvcs take that away from you.
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402646 tn?1202521402
Hello Hun...

I read your post and I had to reply because I feel the same way u do...I have had all the test done and had 2 cardiologists tell me that I am fine and to live my life...but...HOW...these things scare the **** out of me...I keep thinking at any moment I am going to drop over dead...so I can so relate...I won't do any of the things that I used to do because I am scared I will have an episode...I haven't been enjoying life since Jan 14th...

So...I made an apt to see someone on the 26th and I pray I can get some relief then...living like this is NOT living...

I am here anytime u would like to vent and talk...Please don't be afraid to call on me...

*Huggssss*
Cathy
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