Aa
heart stopping
I really am not having fun right now. I am fighting this flu-type bug that keeps coming and going and I was just thinking how nice it was not feeling my pvcs for a day, but I felt something else that FREAKED me out. I was playing guitar when all a sudden it felt like my heart stopped. It felt like it lasted forever! There were no symptoms other than this like (knowing) my heart stopped or something. I cant explain it. Once I jumped up scared, I then thought to check my pulse which was now racing from insane fear. Any idea what this is? There was no really hard thump after, just a slight one.
Jenny I completely agree with you, I've seen alot with multi focal pvc's over the 16 months I've been here. The weird thing is, I was never told I had multi focal pvc's, I found out by accident when my attny sent me files from a court case I had with my insurer.
My ekg showed multi focal pvc's & vt's in the ER when I went on 7/26/2009 and they told me I was fine and my pvc's were benign and I would have to have an ablation due to the number of pvc's I had. I would think if multi focal pvc's were malignant they would not have let me leave the hospital....add the numerous doctors and a large hospital to my quackery list...
I haven't found much research on malignant arrhythmia's though; most say it is rare and quote <1%, but I did find a number - 5% http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2913541 Malignant Arrhythmia's; but it's a bit outdated - who knows what the numbers are now. I hope the U.S. National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health update their info soon that was 1989.
Where they originate, whether multi or unifocal seems to be a huge factor, but no guarantees - the dated Lown grading system is contradicted by many doctors. I think alot of the prognosis has to do with LV function and can make or break a case. http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/243044/PVCs--ventricular-bigeminy--LV-Function?personal_page_id=861727
I had Vtach documented and was told it was not life threatening - weird thing is - I didn't have some of the long runs of VT/Vtach others have, just 3-5 beat runs, but quite a bit of them...add my 4 cardiologists & 2 ep's to my quackery list
http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/228899/VTACH---VT-?personal_page_id=861727
This is the reason I do not want to believe anything a doctor says again - I think they don't even know themselves and are finding out a ton of info they never knew before such as - the cardiologists worst nightmare where benign pvc's really were malignant
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1475953/
They question themselves in this article...how do seemingly "benign" pvc's turn malignant. I'm done with quesitons, they make my head hurt and make me fret over it all...I'm going back to burying my head in the sand and acting like nothing is wrong with me :P I was certainly a HECK of alot happier that way....
hope you find some answers soon for you
My ekg showed multi focal pvc's & vt's in the ER when I went on 7/26/2009 and they told me I was fine and my pvc's were benign and I would have to have an ablation due to the number of pvc's I had. I would think if multi focal pvc's were malignant they would not have let me leave the hospital....add the numerous doctors and a large hospital to my quackery list...
I haven't found much research on malignant arrhythmia's though; most say it is rare and quote <1%, but I did find a number - 5% http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2913541 Malignant Arrhythmia's; but it's a bit outdated - who knows what the numbers are now. I hope the U.S. National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health update their info soon that was 1989.
Where they originate, whether multi or unifocal seems to be a huge factor, but no guarantees - the dated Lown grading system is contradicted by many doctors. I think alot of the prognosis has to do with LV function and can make or break a case. http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/243044/PVCs--ventricular-bigeminy--LV-Function?personal_page_id=861727
I had Vtach documented and was told it was not life threatening - weird thing is - I didn't have some of the long runs of VT/Vtach others have, just 3-5 beat runs, but quite a bit of them...add my 4 cardiologists & 2 ep's to my quackery list
http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/228899/VTACH---VT-?personal_page_id=861727
This is the reason I do not want to believe anything a doctor says again - I think they don't even know themselves and are finding out a ton of info they never knew before such as - the cardiologists worst nightmare where benign pvc's really were malignant
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1475953/
They question themselves in this article...how do seemingly "benign" pvc's turn malignant. I'm done with quesitons, they make my head hurt and make me fret over it all...I'm going back to burying my head in the sand and acting like nothing is wrong with me :P I was certainly a HECK of alot happier that way....
hope you find some answers soon for you
In the book "Understanding Electrocardiography," multifocal PVCs are seen as malignant:
http://books.google.com/books?id=pcPekl1Q1cAC&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=malignant+pvcs&source=bl&ots=SuJE8ETPmt&sig=kHaSvvNs169i0CijvKlgvJnAeYk&hl=en&ei=y4vgTLTHGoOgsQPExc39Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CEwQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=malignant%20pvcs&f=false
Multifocal or multiform PVCs always raise the level of suspicion considerably, as discussed here under "Rules of Malignancy":
"There are Rules of Malignancy which determine how seriousness of PVC events. They are listed below in an increasing order from least serious to most serious.
* Frequent single focus PVCs
* Runs of PVCs - i.e. - bigeminy, trigeminy, quadrigeminy
* The appearance of multiform PVCs - PVCs coming from more than one focus
* RT on T phenomenon - when a PVC falls on top of a T wave, V-Tach may be instigated because the T wave is a very fragile period in the cardiac cycle.
* Ventricular Tachycardia - this event requires immediate medical treatment
* Ventricular Fibrillation - this is a cardiac emergency because there is no cardiac output."
http://faculty.etsu.edu/arnall/www/public_html/heartlung/lectures/ekg3.html
My own impression is that few to none on this board diagnosed with PVCs in the setting of structurally normal hearts have been told they have multifocal PVCs. Still, the presence of multifocal ectopy always raises the level of physician alertness and examination, or should do so.
http://books.google.com/books?id=pcPekl1Q1cAC&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=malignant+pvcs&source=bl&ots=SuJE8ETPmt&sig=kHaSvvNs169i0CijvKlgvJnAeYk&hl=en&ei=y4vgTLTHGoOgsQPExc39Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CEwQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=malignant%20pvcs&f=false
Multifocal or multiform PVCs always raise the level of suspicion considerably, as discussed here under "Rules of Malignancy":
"There are Rules of Malignancy which determine how seriousness of PVC events. They are listed below in an increasing order from least serious to most serious.
* Frequent single focus PVCs
* Runs of PVCs - i.e. - bigeminy, trigeminy, quadrigeminy
* The appearance of multiform PVCs - PVCs coming from more than one focus
* RT on T phenomenon - when a PVC falls on top of a T wave, V-Tach may be instigated because the T wave is a very fragile period in the cardiac cycle.
* Ventricular Tachycardia - this event requires immediate medical treatment
* Ventricular Fibrillation - this is a cardiac emergency because there is no cardiac output."
http://faculty.etsu.edu/arnall/www/public_html/heartlung/lectures/ekg3.html
My own impression is that few to none on this board diagnosed with PVCs in the setting of structurally normal hearts have been told they have multifocal PVCs. Still, the presence of multifocal ectopy always raises the level of physician alertness and examination, or should do so.
Hi jenny,
So sorry to hear you are going through this difficulty. I think that maybe people were talking about seeing someone, is that it can indeed help with the anxiety issues that are centered around worrying about your illness.
I have struggled with a bunch of different symptoms for the last year and it does indeed create anxiety for me (the not knowing). Counseling can help through these difficult times. It doesn't by any means it is in your head, because it isn't.
I'll pray for you. I think this seems like it is a good place for support nonetheless.
Hugs,
Susan
So sorry to hear you are going through this difficulty. I think that maybe people were talking about seeing someone, is that it can indeed help with the anxiety issues that are centered around worrying about your illness.
I have struggled with a bunch of different symptoms for the last year and it does indeed create anxiety for me (the not knowing). Counseling can help through these difficult times. It doesn't by any means it is in your head, because it isn't.
I'll pray for you. I think this seems like it is a good place for support nonetheless.
Hugs,
Susan
Jenny,
I can so relate to the madness of our hearts, the anxiety feeds it. I just called a pyschologist on Friday because I can't do it anymore. When it comes to our hearts its hard to ignore. We are here for support anytime.
I can so relate to the madness of our hearts, the anxiety feeds it. I just called a pyschologist on Friday because I can't do it anymore. When it comes to our hearts its hard to ignore. We are here for support anytime.
"I've love to find concrete evidence just how many cases of arrhythmia's are malignant; and causes - almost 16 months I haven't found this - no clue why though - there doesn't seem to be any real research into this."
Well, they are malignant if they are multifocal rather than unifocal--that is, if they come from more than one place in the heart. This would indicate something more general than just one cluster of hyper-excitable cells, you know.
They are more likely to be malignant if they are occurring in a heart that is already diseased or damaged (MI, cardiomyopathy, myocarditis, a direct blow to the chest, etc).
They are malignant if they are associated with a serious arrhythmia like V-tach, or if certain segments of the PQRST complex have certain weird shapes, as opposed the usual.
On a standard EKG strip, you can easily see the difference between unifocal PVCs (generally benign) and multifocal or polymorphic PVCs (probably not benign)
It is interesting that there seem to be few statistical papers on the incidence of malignant arrythmias. In a half-hour's cruise of the web, I could find only one, and that involved a geriatric study--which, I suppose, is valuable, in that all these people were both alive AND old, in spite of their ectopic beat. ;-)
http://www.aggjournal.com/article/S0167-4943%2802%2900031-6/abstract
I'm sure with your history, you have run into all this before, but for others on the board, here's more info about the difference between benign and not-so-benign arrhythmias:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/761148-diagnosis
Well, they are malignant if they are multifocal rather than unifocal--that is, if they come from more than one place in the heart. This would indicate something more general than just one cluster of hyper-excitable cells, you know.
They are more likely to be malignant if they are occurring in a heart that is already diseased or damaged (MI, cardiomyopathy, myocarditis, a direct blow to the chest, etc).
They are malignant if they are associated with a serious arrhythmia like V-tach, or if certain segments of the PQRST complex have certain weird shapes, as opposed the usual.
On a standard EKG strip, you can easily see the difference between unifocal PVCs (generally benign) and multifocal or polymorphic PVCs (probably not benign)
It is interesting that there seem to be few statistical papers on the incidence of malignant arrythmias. In a half-hour's cruise of the web, I could find only one, and that involved a geriatric study--which, I suppose, is valuable, in that all these people were both alive AND old, in spite of their ectopic beat. ;-)
http://www.aggjournal.com/article/S0167-4943%2802%2900031-6/abstract
I'm sure with your history, you have run into all this before, but for others on the board, here's more info about the difference between benign and not-so-benign arrhythmias:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/761148-diagnosis
I was not attacking you, but in spite of your years of schooling, I am living proof of the dangers of these drugs that are "proven" safe. If I radiate serious anxiety vibes, I dont believe reading posts from someone online is a sound way to diagnose anyone. Im sorry if i seem short, I am really sick right now and headed to my doctors. No hard feelings.
I'm not judging you morally or anything like that Jenny, but you do radiate serious anxiety vibes, and regardless of what your heart is doing, that anxiety could be addressed by a therapy of your choice.
As to natural doctors and herbs, I have spent years involved with university classes teaching human anatomy and physiology, and based on that background, I do not find any logical or rational basis at all in 'popular' natural, oriental, herbal, etc., treatments of disease. Some of these approaches are frankly dangerous, and therefore I never advocate them to anyone complaining of what sounds to me like a real illness.
As to natural doctors and herbs, I have spent years involved with university classes teaching human anatomy and physiology, and based on that background, I do not find any logical or rational basis at all in 'popular' natural, oriental, herbal, etc., treatments of disease. Some of these approaches are frankly dangerous, and therefore I never advocate them to anyone complaining of what sounds to me like a real illness.
Too many doctors are too quick to diagnose anxiety these days. They dish out the pills like candy.
I went the same route, doc said I had anxiety and gave me opamox...seems I had SVT and needed the ablation.
Not until lying in the ER being cardioverted did the doc come up to me and say " good to see that it is not all in your head"
Yes people do have anxiety, but also the docs don't do enough investigating into WHY we have anxiety.
For me my anxiety is caused by being left out of the loop, seems that I can't get a straight answer from anyone about anything. If the doctor would spend a little more time explaining about things then maybe a lot of us wouldn't get anxiety at all.
I went the same route, doc said I had anxiety and gave me opamox...seems I had SVT and needed the ablation.
Not until lying in the ER being cardioverted did the doc come up to me and say " good to see that it is not all in your head"
Yes people do have anxiety, but also the docs don't do enough investigating into WHY we have anxiety.
For me my anxiety is caused by being left out of the loop, seems that I can't get a straight answer from anyone about anything. If the doctor would spend a little more time explaining about things then maybe a lot of us wouldn't get anxiety at all.
well not really 1 in a million; I found another poster recently who has HOCM (kevk) who has malignant pvc's/vt - thankfully his was found early
I've had pvc's/arrhythmia's since I can remember probably as long as I've fainted - 34 years...and not being taken seriously by a dr is frustrating - I knew my body and what I felt was not "normal" but 9 doctors in a handful of years told me otherwise to where I finally started believeing it.
I've love to find concrete evidence just how many cases of arrhythmia's are malignant; and causes - almost 16 months I haven't found this - no clue why though - there doesn't seem to be any real research into this. Is it because we're all labelled as "normal" benign or whatever other label they give us and it's not tracked? I'm not sure, but I'll keep searching till I find some answers =)
I've had pvc's/arrhythmia's since I can remember probably as long as I've fainted - 34 years...and not being taken seriously by a dr is frustrating - I knew my body and what I felt was not "normal" but 9 doctors in a handful of years told me otherwise to where I finally started believeing it.
I've love to find concrete evidence just how many cases of arrhythmia's are malignant; and causes - almost 16 months I haven't found this - no clue why though - there doesn't seem to be any real research into this. Is it because we're all labelled as "normal" benign or whatever other label they give us and it's not tracked? I'm not sure, but I'll keep searching till I find some answers =)
I appreciate what you are saying and understand where you are coming from. Please dont be so quick to judge. I have lived with pvcs for 30 years. Its only been the last year things are different and theres a reason for this--due to a medication that messed me up. Anyway, I know you tell others to get help for their anxiety, and I agree with that, but please try to encourage them to get help through natural doctors and even then research prior to taking any herbs. I have been living a hell due to effects of one medication and if that is not enough, another one (prozac) gave me heart block. I dont advocate drugs for anxiety.
No problem, Lisa. You are obviously the one in a million who actually did have something both wrong and difficult to diagnose. A few people with what seem like minor symptoms either do have something structurally or neurologically wrong with their hearts--or they develop something that would have happened with time anyhow.
But the statistics gathered on thousands of patients are valid: Most of the people on this very board who have been diagnosed with benign arrhythmias will live to ripe old age in spite of their PVCs or whatever.
I have had PVCs for over twenty years, and early in the game found myself in the ER all in a lather a few times, sure I was going to DIE--no joke--in spite of the doctors' reassurance. I actually felt ill, absolutely certain that something was really, really wrong. Time after time, testing showed my heart to be OK, and here I am, 20 years later, with still nothing wrong and no changes in my heart.
If I had continued to believe my certainty that I was actually ill, I would have wasted those twenty years in needless worry. Instead, I got treatment for my anxiety and panic--and the severity of my 'heart' symptoms actually diminished.
But the statistics gathered on thousands of patients are valid: Most of the people on this very board who have been diagnosed with benign arrhythmias will live to ripe old age in spite of their PVCs or whatever.
I have had PVCs for over twenty years, and early in the game found myself in the ER all in a lather a few times, sure I was going to DIE--no joke--in spite of the doctors' reassurance. I actually felt ill, absolutely certain that something was really, really wrong. Time after time, testing showed my heart to be OK, and here I am, 20 years later, with still nothing wrong and no changes in my heart.
If I had continued to believe my certainty that I was actually ill, I would have wasted those twenty years in needless worry. Instead, I got treatment for my anxiety and panic--and the severity of my 'heart' symptoms actually diminished.
Please no one take this the wrong way, this isn't meant to offend anyone or the medical community...so stop reading if you're easily offended or the medical profession :P
funny...dr's used to say I had anxiety too...and things were all in my head; I don't know whether to laugh in their faces and say booyah! or cry because they were wrong
dr's use that anxiety BS cop out way too many times...had my dr listened to me before and not "poo pooed" my EKG in 2005/2007, I may not have the problems I have today and worsening health
we all know our bodies and what's going on inside - what feels normal and what doesn't so don't let anyone - doctor's included make you feel otherwise - keep seeking help until you find it.
[rant off]
hehehe sorry just makes me mad others are treated like I was
funny...dr's used to say I had anxiety too...and things were all in my head; I don't know whether to laugh in their faces and say booyah! or cry because they were wrong
dr's use that anxiety BS cop out way too many times...had my dr listened to me before and not "poo pooed" my EKG in 2005/2007, I may not have the problems I have today and worsening health
we all know our bodies and what's going on inside - what feels normal and what doesn't so don't let anyone - doctor's included make you feel otherwise - keep seeking help until you find it.
[rant off]
hehehe sorry just makes me mad others are treated like I was
I repeat: See someone about the panic. Your life will get dramatically better (been there).
Thanks you guys. Everytime I think I can live with this, it seems to switch it up a little. :(
I also posted today about my heart pausing for too long, then followed by intense flip-flopping (heart trying to readjust itself). I know for a fact that my heart paused for 2-3 seconds, since I was wearing a beeping exercise monitor. I got so rattled that I called the cardiologist and the nurse thinks it may have been a skipped beat or a beat that started in the atria but never went all the way through to the ventricles, hence a long pause. Her main concern is that there were no feelings of passing out or light-headedness. She dismissed it as an event that should not make me panic. HA! Too late!
The biggest issue with these funky things is that they're treated benignly if there were no symptoms and does not happen multiple times.
Try not to worry. Easier said than done, I KNOW!!!
The biggest issue with these funky things is that they're treated benignly if there were no symptoms and does not happen multiple times.
Try not to worry. Easier said than done, I KNOW!!!
You probably had a PVC with a long compensatory pause. There often is a thump as a result of greater ventricular filling after such a pause, but people vary in their perception of this. Since you remained conscious, and in fact jumped up, you did not experience cardiac arrest. In that condition, people become unconscious almost at once and they stay that way, dying swiftly if CPR/defibrillation is not used on them.
The racing heart afterward was almost certainly a panic response.
Panic is a funny thing; it's non-verbal, and I think it can start up faster than the conscious brain can keep tabs on it. There are times when, out of nowhere, I will experience a good PVC and a panic attack. It feels to me as though they are simultaneous, so I don't know which is the chicken and which is the egg. But I do know that panic is involved, and once I start getting into the awareness-of-the-pulse mode, I know I have to talk to my shrink again and start taking my favorite SSRI for a while, otherwise I will be stuck in anxiety/panic for months at a stretch--and always with hyperawareness of my erratic heartbeat.
I don't remember if you have been evaluated by a cardiologist yet, but if you have and have been pronounced healthy, then I would recommend you see a doc or counselor who specializes in anxiety. You don't want to be trapped by a cardiac neurosis (google the term). It is too sad to waste your life fretting over symptoms that, while troublesome, are not dangerous.
The racing heart afterward was almost certainly a panic response.
Panic is a funny thing; it's non-verbal, and I think it can start up faster than the conscious brain can keep tabs on it. There are times when, out of nowhere, I will experience a good PVC and a panic attack. It feels to me as though they are simultaneous, so I don't know which is the chicken and which is the egg. But I do know that panic is involved, and once I start getting into the awareness-of-the-pulse mode, I know I have to talk to my shrink again and start taking my favorite SSRI for a while, otherwise I will be stuck in anxiety/panic for months at a stretch--and always with hyperawareness of my erratic heartbeat.
I don't remember if you have been evaluated by a cardiologist yet, but if you have and have been pronounced healthy, then I would recommend you see a doc or counselor who specializes in anxiety. You don't want to be trapped by a cardiac neurosis (google the term). It is too sad to waste your life fretting over symptoms that, while troublesome, are not dangerous.
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