when to worry about pvcs...

[Karyn703]

My PVCs have been steadily increasing.  My initial holter showed 856, the following months holter showed 1780 with rare bouts of trigeminy and bigeminy.  I have also been diagnosed with IST and POTS.  I started on Metatoprolol, and had initial great results; the pvcs were few between, and I felt so much better.  Unfortunatly, it made my heart rate too low.  I was switched to Pindolol and florinef.  The initial dizziness is better I am no longer passing out, but the PVCs are crazy.  The number has increased like mad. I have been told PVCs are benign, but they last for hours, and are starting to wake me up at night, and they don't FEEL benign!  I know lots of people can't even feel them, but they cause me alot of discomfort in my chest, and I can't walk and talk when they are happening.  This past months ovulation cycle was a nightmare, so we doubled the pindolol, but I'm pmsing right now, and I am miserable.  I have an appointment on the 15th, and I don't want to bother my cardiologist.  I guess I am looking for reassurance that I'm not going to stroke out in my sleep or something!  There are just SO MANY of them.  Do they make everyone this miserable?????

[iamfaithful]

That is what I am taking Metaprolol .25.  My heart rate has actually gone back to what it was before I was taking it, but that was normal.  When I first started my hr was in the low 60's and I could feel my PVC's worse when it was at that rate.  
I am so sorry to hear that you are going thru this.  I don't know that I have had as many PVC's captured,  but I know they make me absolutely miserable and I mean MISERABLE!  As soon as I have one it ruins my entire week!  I have posted so much on here and asked a zillion questions, and the people on this forum are very knowlegable and compassionate.  A lot of them have gone thru this and I have seen some post with IST and I think talk about POTS.  I'm sorry, but I don't know what POTS is.  
Everyone says they are benign, but you are so right, they don't feel like it at all, so you are not alone.  Try your best to not think about them, which is hard, especially when you are having them often.  Mine get SUPER bad on the 6th day of my cylce, where it's ending or about to end.  I can trace all of my ER visits to around that time of the month-it sucks.  It's like what do you do????  Most folk say to try your best to just live with them.....mercy.

[whatayear]

Hey I have IST and at the begining I only had them here and there now I have them all through out the day they drive me crazy I am on atenolol 25 mg but looking into other things right now,  I cant stand them! I dont mind the heart rate my only issue is the palipatations!!!!! but here are something things to help if you havnt tried them drink lots of gatoraide alllll day the long the sodioum helps blood volume and it keeps you hydrated kills to birds with one stone, mine are worse when im sitting then up moving around i still dont understand this but who knows....I hate this IST!!! you have IST and POTS????? what does that mean? Ist is where your sinus node tells your heart to go fast POTS is an autoimmune issue where your brain tells your heart to go fast and usually has alot of symtoms and then there is NCS where you pass out???? Can you have both IST and POTS im just curious and still learning about this have you joined the IST web forum its great we all help each other and it makes you feel like your not going through this alone? let me know I will put the website up here! but your not going to stroke in your sleep its the main symptom of IST if your palps are coming from the top of yor heart and your not having any dizziness ro out of breath with the palps your fine if you start to get symptoms with the palps then it needs to be checked but that would have showed up on a moitor if they were coming from the bottom of your heart and thats where you dont want them happening! I get them and it feels like I have them and then my heart isnt beating right I chug some gatoriade and try to go about my day! but it is normal I promise also try bearing down like your going to the bathroom or as my doc told me having a baby this effects a nerve that slows your heart rate! my email is ****** if you want to chat!

[Karyn703]

POTS is a blood pressure issue, mostly.  I can't say I understand having both IST and POTS at the same time, either.  I have passed out a total of 5 times within the past 3 months and they were usually a result of being excited or hot, and then changing positions suddenly.  My heart rate goes bezerk doing little things like climbing the stairs, but I can ride horses and exercise and my heart stays pretty stable.  My cardiologist says it's a dyautonomia thing that is affecting my sinus node and blood pressure.  For instance, at my last appointment my bp was 98 0ver 50, and 30 minutes later it was 171 over 101, 15 minutes after that it was 115/70.  There was no major stresser in between, it usually changes when I stand.  Honestly, I think it is the PVCs that make me feel so crappy and trembly.  I have 3 boys under 7, and by the end of the day I can't keep up with them.  I think the Florinef is designed to make me retain water and sodium, the pindolol is wierd, I don't like it.  The Meteprolol worked so well, I felt so great, I was crushed when they pulled me off it!

Reading these posts is cool that I'm not alone, but disheartening when I read that some people have 10s of thousands of pvcs and function (albeit miserably). I want something to be fixed, darnit!!!!!!  I started feeling bad last winter/spring.  I didn't have my first pvc until July 6, it's pretty much been downhill from there.  I hate the word "BENIGN"!!!!!  Until of course, it isn't benign, and then I will miss benign...  I can't imagine how people with seriously critical conditions function!  This "benign" condition is making everything about living so much harder!

[whatayear]

no it is a chronic illness!!! just the symptoms are benign ist and pots isnt life threatning just life changing!!!! I had an allergic reactic to Meteprolol ! I am on atenolol and its ok! I have a 4 year old and a 1 year old I had my daighter last nov and had my gallbladder out during my pregnancy but went 4 months very ill so I wouldnt miscarry then after I had her developed a severe uterine infection and then staph infection and then chronic BV twitching and then I got a cold and this started couple months ago! I hate it I push through it even though it is hard and everyone even my husband are not very understanding they think im being lazy! thats what I hate the most i think is having this and not getting support from anyone I know I dont know what id do without my ist forum atleast they understand me! im 26

[oldie]

I  have been on amiodarone 200mg for four months five days a week to control VT. It seems to be working. . However, the skipped beats continue. I had a Holter test last week  with a score of 20,000  skips in the 24 hours.  That's the most I've had except for one previous bad day in August. I have had very few since the Holter.  There's no pattern. Sometimes I feel I have only seconds to live. Sometimes they can be ignored. They come and  go. So keep searching for an answer. Bless you

[Acapulco]

I recently started on Metoprolol for the PVC's and past episode of atrial fib.  Just 2 weeks into taking the medicine and don't feel different yet.  I may be going back to Cleveland where I lived all my life for a second opinion at the Cleveland Clinic.  See link below -- they have an outstanding department specializing in this.

http://www.clevelandclinic.org/heartcenter/pub/about/specialties/electrophysiology.asp

And if you go to the bottom of this link there is a "Meet the Doctors" -- you can see pictures, bios and get specifics.

[iamfaithful]

I am interested to know why you say getting the palps from the bottom of heart is "not where you want them..."  From what I understand that is what PVC's are!  The PAC's come from the top and the PVC's come from the bottom.....please someone correct me if I'm wrong.  A-atrium and V-Ventricle???
You just freaked me out a little, so I am trying to get clarity.

[gram6plus5]

Hello iamfaithful - I just wrote a note to comment on your question about understanding PACs and PVCs plus a long detailed of my problem.  First time for me on Forum but I have been reading for weeks.  Finally got enough courage to write when I saw your questions as PACs are what I've been experiencing for months.  I am going crazy to say the least BUT. . . after I wrote my long story. . . and tried to post comment. . . a message came up as to register, etc, etc, etc. so I think I lost everything I wrote.  Not sure what happened to my info to you.  Please let me know if you did not get it and I will write again. I don't want you to get two of the same plea for info. I am desperate for advice and knowledge. Could probably use some lessons on how to work forum also but I guess that has to come from experience. I am trying.  Thanks for being patient.  

[whatayear]

Hey I have palps and then I hear PVCs and PACs and I have no idea what all this means! what is a palpitation????? is it a PVC or a PAC? I asked my cardio if palps were dangerous becuase that is my main symtoms and problem with my IST and he said that palps from the top of your heart where usually begin but palps from the bottom of your heart could be dangerous I dont understand what this means so i dont know how to answer the question that is what he said to me.....Id love to know the answer to the questions to ...Can anyone explain?????

[gram6plus5]

Finally, everything clicked in. . . . I can now see my last comment on the forum so I am doing something right.  So here is my story . . . . You are right about the PACs (premature atriel contractions) and PVCs (premature ventrical contractions).  I do not read too much about PACs on the forum.  So any comments will sure help.  PACs are my problem and they are driving me crazy and as someone mentioned "not life threatening but life changing".  Can't wait to tell my Dr. that !  What a great quote. . . it brought me right out of my shell to finally write.  My Dr. doesn't understand why I am so concerned.  My big problem recently is they are getting worse. I wore the Holter Monitor for the second time last week since they have increased over the last two months.  So much worse then when I was going thru all the tests back in July.   I am waiting for the report but the Dr. wants me to increase my atenolol (50mg) to a double dose, taking another 50mg in the evening.  My PACs are very bad in the morning as soon as I put my feet from bed to the floor and last till about 11 am most days but not everyday.  Some days much worse than others.  I take my altenolol first thing in the a.m. and it seems the PACs dissapear after a few hours and I am good for the rest of the day,  IF, I DON't over-eat, take in too much salt, or sugar, caffine or really exerting myself, (lifting, reaching, walking too fast, too far) too happy, to much excitment or sad.  Just about anything uplifting - and Lord forbid if I should have a glass of wine with supper. Walking thru the airport ? - forget it !  Do you push yourself even tho your heart is beating all those extra beats.  How long can that go on !  I feel I am wearing it out to no end by pushing myself.   I do not work and am a young retiree so I am not "job stressed".  Right now I am very frightened with doubling up the meds.  I have a low pulse rate and I want to be sure I wake up in the morning and not go into some kind of shock if taking to much of the altenolol (doubling up would bring me to 100mg)  That terrifies me.  The doc says this will not happen but I have read some comments - this has happened with people having low pulse rates.  I trust my doctor but I am fearful of meds and always have been. Should I tell him how I feel?  I already feel  he  thinks I am "mental" cause I just can't adjust to what is happening. What a mess this whole situation is.  I am new to the forum but have been reading for 4-5 weeks.  I know there are so many that have more serious problems than PACs.  But when my heart feels like it is coming out my throat and I cough and choke or feel those hard extra beats in my upper stomach as well as my throat - I just go into a shell and don't want to go out of the house.  No dizziness or shortness of breath. I have had all the tests available except cardio-cath.  Had the Cardiolite stress test and had an explosive allergic reaction to the contrast injections.  I was covered from my ears to my toes with hives and was loaded up with Prendisone and Benedyl while at the Emergency Room.  Of course, that had to happen on a weekend so I could not go to a Dr's office.  BUT that is another story.  My main concern at this point is the atenolol - can anyone relate to this situation.  If I try this, will it make my situation worse and if so will it do any harm to stop taking the second dose ?  Or is this a "try it and see" experiment.  I can't believe there are so many that have to deal with this everyday.  I am trying everything from giving up the foods that I love, lossing weight, tying to change things that I might feel are causing these symptoms.  I am trying to grasp all the knowledge that I can.  Thank you for your help and thank God you are there for so many who have fears and all these unanswered questions.  

[Momto3]

GREAT first post!!  You're posting like a veteran : )

I am not as familiar with PAC's, but I do know that most people cannot tell the difference between PAC's and PVC's. I have more experience with PVC's but because they are difficult to differentiate,I think I can relate to what you are describing. "iamfaithful" will probably see your post in the morning, but in the meantime, I thought I'd welcome you to the forum.

As I read through you post, I could detect the anxiety in your words.  What I can tell you is that the feelings you are describing are very, very familiar to many of us.  Well, not the allergic reaction,but the symptoms from the PAC's.  As long as you've had a good cardio workup, you are pretty much assured that the PAC's are benign.  That's the easy part -- the hard part is believing it. Sometimes you can identify a "trigger," but other times the beats just appear outta nowhere.  We're here to help you through this -- so feel free to post your questions, comments, fears, ideas, progress, whatever helps you to meet this challenge.

You may want to include a "profile" so that you can talk (type) directly to other members. Once you set up a profile, you're screenname (gram6plus5) will appear in blue.  The forum is a great place to share, vent, read, learn and just visit.

As for changing the dose of your beta blocker, you may want to ask you doctor if you could increase the dose in lower increments.  Explain that for whatever reason, you are anxious about the palpitations and the medication.  Ask him/her if you could try taking one 50mg tablet and 1/2 of a 50 mg tablet each day until you feel comfortable with the new dose. Then, you could increase to the full 100mg per day.  That's what I usually do when my doctor changes my medication.  She knows that I worry about new medications so she agrees to let me work my way up to the new dose. But, be sure to talk to your doctor first.  Beta blockers are usually the first line of medications used for PAC's, but not all BB's work for all people, so there may be a period of trial and error.  Try not to get discouraged; hang in there.

A healthy diet and exercise are always good things, so be proud of taking steps toward overall good health. Congratulations!  Partaking in the forum discussions can be very therapeutic. Soon, you'll be helping others.  But, for now, we're here to help you : )

Connie

[gram6plus5]

I just read your last comment after I wrote my long "story".  From what I read on another website and what my Dr. told me. . . palps are both PACs and PVCs.  The PVCs from the bottom of the heart can be more dangerous but usually after all tests prove negitive, you can assume they are benign. Sometimes PVCs can lead to blood clots more easily than PACs can. Why I don't know, something about the blood flow. That is not very common but as a precaution, if tests show any problem of this happening, medication can be given to prevent clotting.  I just figured out that Atrial Fibulation (referred to as A-fibs) flutter, is not the same as PACs or PVCs. Dr. explained these as being extra beats of the heart and not fluttering.  I am having difficulty reading the forum because of all the abbriviations used.  I don't understand some of the terms.  Sometimes you can't tell if you are experiencing the same symptoms due to the abbriv. used to explain certain symptoms or treatments. I need a crash course in terminology. Guess I have a long way to go to understand or try to solve the mystery of it all.  If stress adds to the cause. . . then figuring all this out can be very stressful. . . . so then what?   anti-stress meds. . . . what a vicious cycle !  

[gram6plus5]

Thank you so much for answering and for the welcome. I was so surprised and delighted to find a post so soon.  Your words of encouragement really helped and I instantly felt some relief from the stress of it all. Guess it just biulds up inside.  Thanks for your support. Your are right about not being able to tell the difference between PACs and PVCs.  When I first experienced them, I thought I was having a heart attack and it brought on a major panic attack that added to the the whole situation.   What you wrote about the meds is exactly what I was thinking. I am going to call my Dr. tomorrow and talk it over with him.   I feel more comfortable with doing that.  Your explanation of "trigger" and "how all of a sudden out of nowhere". . . .how very true. Just when you think you've figured it out,  the complete opposite happens and it proves your conclusion all wrong !  You can go from high to low in 10 seconds.  Thanks, too, for the info regarding the profile.  I will try to work my way thru that - my computer skills are not the greatest.  I would be glad to share any info, too.  I feel better already.  Thanks again.  

[Momto3]

Glad to hear you're feeling better.  Hope the phone call with the doctor's office goes well.  I know how you feel about taking MORE medicine; sometimes increasing the dose slowly really helps.

The feelings that you describe are very common.  The important thing is that you follow through with your doctor and be sure he/she understands your concerns.  I saw where you have worn a Holter monitor, but have you had an echocardiogram?  Whether it reveals anything, or not, it is a great test for evaluating the heart chambers and valves.

Hang in there gram!  BTW (by the way), your computer skills are great!!  If you decide to create a profile, you'll find even more sources for support.  Keep us posted and let us know what the doctor says about the medicine.  In the meantime, try not to let the PAC's get to you.  Just remind yourself that they are like heart hiccups...harmless, but annoying : )

[iamfaithful]

Hello-
All I can say is welome to our world :-)  I'm sorry for you, but you came to the right place.  These folk are great!
You know, I can definitely tell the difference with PAC's and PVC's for some reason.  The PAC's feel like thumps to me and I can pretty much handle those; but the PVC's feel like my heart is dropping or doing somersaults.....those  put me into a major depression.  They make me feel so bad.  I can feel thumping in my stomach sometimes too.
I get so confused sometimes because these doctors say all kinds of different things.  My doctor never mentioned one time to me that PVC'S were dangerous.  I knew that if you had other heart stuff going on they could be but I always hear the word "benign" over and over.  To me, if they are benign then there is no danger in a PAC or a PVC.  I don't know, I think I am trying to comfort myself :-)

I understand completely about not wanting to increase meds.  I really don't like taking meds myself and I am on 25 mg of metoprolol/toporol.  My Dr. did increase it to 50 mg at one time, but it made me way to "out of it" so we went back to 25.

I have noticed that when I am outside walking, doing some form of exercise that I don't experience the symptoms as much; however, when I get back to my desk at work or relax...I can feel them.  I think are minds "tune in" when we are relaxed and we are just WAITING for a symptom.

Momto3 has a lot of great info and replies quickly-I love it.  Oh, how do you register your profile?  I didn't notice that option when I first registered on the forum.  I need as much support as I can get from the veterans.

[dolfnlvr]

Hi there.  I read your posts, and you sound so much like I did when I first started dealing with these things.  My son was about 6 months old when I began suffering from PVC's.  It just so happened that this period of time was in direct correlation with the 9/11 attacks.  So, my doctors shrugged it off as plain ol' anxiety for the longest time.  I knew it wasn't that, and I thought, "I'm gonna die and leave my husband with this new--and collicky--baby."  (collicky is important, as the lack of sleep made the PVC's even worse....it's a cruel trick when you have a new baby)

One day I went to the doctor during a particularly bad bought and she HEARD them :-).  That's always a big help.  When your Primary Care Physician (PCP) hears your heart beat go funny, they suddenly think your not crazy anymore :-).  So, off to the cardiologist I went.  There was no forum then, and I was alone...sure I was dying and so alone.  I went on a low dose of metoprolol then and paxil for awhile and begged my doctors if I couldn't go off of the drugs to get pregnant again.  They said yes, I did, and you know what??? I didn't have a single PVC during pregnancy!!!!  I thought, "Eureka!!!  I've been cured!!!"  Now, don't run off and get pregnant to cure yourself, because when my daughter was about 8 months old, and began weaning they came back just as they had when my son began weaning!!  And the doctors say hormones don't cause this....HAH!!

Anyway, the point to my story is that it has now been 7 years.  I've been through every cardiac test I can think of and have been to the emergency room a few times too.  I've learned a few things, and thought I'd tell you some of it.  First and foremost, the more power you give these things, the worse the affect your life.  If you constantly think of them, and feel for your pulse, avoid activity or seclude yourself they will take over, and you will not only have heart palps, you will find yourself in a deep and symptom increasing depression!  Secondly, having a group of people to share your concerns with helps to take some of the power (fear) away from the PVC's.  Coming here and talking about these things, offering advice to others, and discussing strategies for coping makes these things seem so much less frightening and powerful.  I swear I can't remember who keeps saying this (from this forum) but whenever the PVC's are bad, remember...they will eventually pass away...YOU WON'T!!!!!

Please take care.  It does get better (they haven't gone away, but they don't scare me anymore).

[Karyn703]

An increased dose of Metetprolol DID make my pulse drop pretty darn low.  It was 42 while awake and sitting down. (made me wonder what it did when I was asleep - I didn't feel right, so I had skipped the morning dose anyway!)  It did go up when I moved, however, but that is part of my problem as far as IST and POTS.  She started me on Pindoprol, and I am actually hoping it can be increased when I see my Doctor on Thursday.  That beta-blocker actually increases your heart rate - or something like that!  Not sure how it works, but with that BB I don't have to worry about the heart rate dropping too low.  It is my understanding that that is a fairly rare occurence....

Eventually the fear starts to lessen, last week was a really bad one for me, and I was scared/disheartened, and tired of wondering if I was going to have a heart attack in my sleep, and wake up paralyzed and drooling...  the point is, I didn't!  I was really worried, but so far the Doctors are right - these arrhythmias can make you miserable, but they won't kill you!

However - expect another panicy post from me when I start PMSing again!  Thats when they get intolerable, and I am sure that I will die ~ but then I don't!!!!!!

Take care, God bless, and just keep living your life, thats all you can do.

[Momto3]

You've covered "life with pvcs" perfectly!!

My early life with pvcs was so much like yours... Early on, my pregnancies would bring out the pvcs.  But, as time went on, they were ease way off.  The babies were born, and I thought the same thing..."they're gone!"  WRONG!  And, I cannot even imagine giving birth and dealing with 9/11.  That was an especially difficult times for many, many reasons and I'd be willing to bet everyone's pvcs were on overdrive.  

My first baby was also colicky....WOW, you're right...that's tough on no sleep!!  Thank goodness it only lasted a little over 3 months....I forgot about those sleepness nights : )  

I couldn't agree more how therapeutic it is to listen and share with others.  It is amazing how empowered you can become when you don't let the pvcs grab your life.  Thanks so much for expressing it so perfectly!  

[Momto3]

Go to "my profile" or "my medhelp" (I can't remember which) and put in as much information as you are comfortable with.  Once you have a profile, among other things, you'll be able to exchange private messages with other members.

See you in blue soon : )

[Skytye]

Hey,I have been having the same problems you are having.I started taking Atenolol a few months ago and at first it didn't help but all of a sudden the palps went away but for the last week they have come back and friday night i had a really bad time with them.I came close to going to the hospital it scared me so bad but I did what you did and took another atenolol.I didn't know if I was supposed to but I was desperate! They finally went away.You said something about not being able to drink a glass of wine but if I choose to have an alcoholic drink the palpitations go away,for awhile anyway.I just had a bad problem with mine a little while ago and I told my husband to go get some alcohol.haha.I took a nerve pill that my doctor gave me and they have calmed down right now though.I also took 1 and a half of my atenolol too.This is very agrivating isn't it?????????!!!!!!!!!
                 Skytye

[iamfaithful]

Hi,

I think you have me confused with someone else, even though I enjoyed reading your post :-)
I take metoprolol and I don't drink at all-lol.