I would just like to know if anyone here in the community have any research which relates to the approaches in which the cccDNA can be blocked/destroyed/inactivated/interfered since from some of the forums here the culprit to the persistence of the virions and the surface antigen would be this cccDNA template inside the hepatocyte? is it in the cytoplasmic area or in the nucleus of the liver cell?
Have you found out any herbal medicines or any drugs which can block this template? please share your research regarding the cccDNA. thanks.
rna interference is the only one to make cccdna unstable and removed fast but i have seen no news from this area.this rna interference can be used to fight a lot of diseases even cancer, maybe not suitable with drug industry.the small company who discovered that is bankruped/closed, i think other drug makers sue them.
interferon plus adevofir or plus entecavir or plus tenofovir decreases cccdna very much over a 5 years period but there are no publications since the trial with adefovir.
it makes sense to go on with the combo interferon plus potent tenefovir or entecavir, adefovir and lam were too weak but even them decreased cccdna.why is data not pubblished yet?
tenofovir and tentecavir lowers cccdna too but so little that it takes decades
in general data from these combo trials is not made pubblic, i dont understand why since many of these combo have been finished,i hope they will publish something in november boston conference
antivirals combo are also reported to lower cccdna more but we have only data in vitro and nothing in vivo
tenofovir+ftc and clevudine+ftc (also tnf+etv but less then previous) are reported to lower cccdna more but again it is in vitro data and for short periods
about nitazoxanide there is no data on cccdna and it doesn t lower hbvrna but it works reactivating normal immune function and by taking control of hbv
in flu virus ntz blocks surface antigen exits from infected cells so maybe it does the same with hbv blocking production or exit of antigens produced by cccdna
i have found an interesting article. just want to post it just for future reference.
Guidotti, Luca G et al. Intracellular Inactivation of the Hepatitis B Virus by Cytotoxic T Lymphocytes. Immunity, Volume 4, Issue 1, 25-36, 1 January 1996. (available at http://www.cell.com/immunity/retrieve/pii/S1074761300802952)
Important excerpts from the article:
"...we also demonstrate that the antiviral effect of the CTL is mediated by at least two inflammatory cytokines and DOES NOT MERELY REPRESENT THE DESTRUCTION OF HBsAg POSITIVE HEPATOCYTES. There are several reasons why we believe these claims are valid.
1. clearance of viral nucleocapsids and replicative DNA intermediates begins prior to the onset of liver disease, and eventually involves every hepatocyte in these animals.
2. using wild-type CTL the disease is relatively mild, consisting of only small sparsely scattered necroinflammatory foci that kill a very small fraction of the hepatocytes, while all traces of the virus (except the integrated transgene) disappear from virtually 100% of the hepatocytes.
3. the cytopathic and regulatory effects of the CTL can be dissociated either by the administration of antibodies to IFNγ and TNFα, which completely abrogate the antiviral effect without reducing disease severity, or by administration of HBsAg-specific perforinless CTL, which completely abrogate HBV replication without causing liver disease.
... The first detectable effect of the CTL on viral replication is the disappearance of cytoplasmic viral nucleocapsids and replicative DNA intermediates from the liver.
... While the authors emphasized the importance of hepatocellular regeneration for viral clearance in these studies, inflammation and macrophage (Kupffer cell) activation may have also contributed to this effect. In an independent study, the same investigators demonstrated that WHV clearance for the woodchuck liver is MOSTLY INDEPENDENT of hepatocellular destruction and regeneration during massive acute WHV infection ( ), suggesting that other factors might play an important role in viral clearance in that model. It is noteworthy that in the present experiments, HBV gene expression and replication were completely abolished following the transfer of cytokine-producing perforinless CTL.
...Absolute clearance requires elimination of the episomal covalently closed circular (ccc) HBV DNA species that serves as the viral transcriptional template in the nucleus of .. since ccc DNA is abolished in the massive WHV infection model described above in the absence of massive destruction or regeneration of hepatocytes and in the presence of inflammatory cells and Kupffer cell hyperplasia, it is likely that ccc DNA can indeed be abolished from the resting hepatocyte by cytokine-dependent pathways...
based on the previous article (Intracellular Inactivation of the Hepatitis B Virus by Cytotoxic T Lymphocytes) it seems that TNF alpha and Interferon gamma may play the noncytolytic T cell mediated pathway in clearing the virus.
i am currently researching on drugs or herbs which may potentiate this two important cytokines for viral clearance.
another article i have seen which we might be able to apply involves FORSKOLIN. information from wikipedia on forskolin: Forskolin (also called Coleonol) is a labdane diterpene that is produced by the Indian Coleus plant (Coleus forskohlii).
Hild, Marc et al. Glucagon Treatment Interferes with an Early Step of Duck Hepatitis B Virus Infection. J Virol, April 1998, p. 2600-2606, Vol. 72, No. 4.
"The effect of glucagon on the establishment of hepadnavirus infection was studied in vitro with the duck hepatitis B virus (DHBV) model. The presence of the peptide hormone throughout infection or starting up to 8 h after virus uptake resulted in a dose-dependent reduction in the levels of intra- and extracellular viral gene products and of secreted virions. Treatment with forskolin or dibutyryl-cyclic AMP, two drugs that also stimulate the cyclic AMP (cAMP) signal transduction pathway, resulted in comparable inhibition, suggesting that the inhibitor effect is related to changes in the activity of protein kinase A. In persistently infected hepatocytes, only a slight, but continuous, decrease in viral replication was observed upon prolonged drug treatment."
I had a VL of over 10 Million and reduced it to just 300k in 2 months by drinking a tea called Chanca Piedra from sunfood.com
Please google this stuff. You will really have to dig deep online to find that one of the scientists who discovered the surface antigen for HB wrote this stuff could clear chronic HB.
I am now down to a VL of 252 hundred and it is nearly gone. I stopped using the tea a while ago and switched to taking yeast bound selenium 200 mcg 2 times a day, a multivitamin containing Alpha Lipoic Acid and 2000 mg of vitamin D.
I also take 500 mg of Olive leaf powder and Astragalus rood caps.
All of the above are anti viral but in different ways. Astragalus activates the body’s natural interferon response, Alpha Lipoic Acid is an anti viral but also protects the liver from damage, Olive leaf is antiviral that prevents viruses from replicating.
That stefano170669 is not Big Pharma but an authentic HBVer just like you is written in all corners of this forum. It is also beyond any doubt that he has done serious learning of the Western medical way of dealing with HBV, is using it on himself and is using his knowledge to help others which we should all appreciate. It would help clear his doubt on your tea treatment if you could scan and post some of your lab results.
I am still waiting for them to come in. Please recommend a place to upload the image.
I cant believe he would say that vitamins were useless and that they had no benefit against HB. That tells me more research is needed on his part.
In fact to post that when others come here looking for suggestions was, well...
Antioxidant Therapy. As with other diseases related to inflammation and tissue damage, oxidative stress is a key mediator that continues and magnifies the ongoing disease process. The livers of people who have hepatitis show reduced levels of antioxidants, which are consumed in an effort to protect the liver. According to a report in the June 1998 issue of the Journal of Clinical Gastroenterology, investigators showed that nutritional antioxidants are potential therapeutic agents for diseases such as hepatitis. Other investigators reported at the same time that oxidative stress (free-radical damage) is often seen in hepatitis B and may contribute to the emergence of hepatocellular carcinoma, seen in patients after years of chronic liver inflammation. The study stated that antioxidants that down-regulate oxidative damage may be a useful complement to specific antiviral drugs in the therapy of viral diseases.
In a related study, vitamin E (alpha-tocopherol) was reported in a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study to be a successful adjunct approach when combined with alpha-interferon therapy in the treatment of hepatitis because of its strong antioxidant activity (von Herbay A et al 1997).
Selenium. The protective role of selenium against HBV was reported in 1997 in the journal Biological Trace Element Research. The study reported that, in areas of China with high rates of hepatitis B and primary liver cancer, high levels of dietary selenium reduced the incidence of liver cancer and hepatitis B infection. In a 4-year trial of 130,471 people, those who were given selenium-spiked table salt showed a 35.1 percent reduction in primary liver cancer, compared with the group who received salt without selenium. In the same journal report, another clinical study of 226 people who tested positive for hepatitis B showed that taking a 200-mcg tablet a day of selenium reduced the incidence of primary liver cancer to zero. Upon cessation of selenium supplementation, the incidence of primary liver cancer began to rise. The study seems to indicate that taking selenium on a continuous basis is beneficial to people who have viral hepatitis (Yu SY et al 1997).
These human trials have been duplicated in animal studies. The animal studies showed that selenium supplementation reduced hepatitis B infection by 77.2 percent and precancerous liver lesions by 75.8 percent.
Another study in the Journal of Trace Elements and Medical Biology reported the role of trace minerals in diseases such as liver disease and hepatitis. The report indicates that, while there is still some debate regarding the specific role of trace minerals, minerals such as selenium and zinc are of benefit to those who have diseases such as hepatitis (Loguercio C et al 1997).
A 3-year study of 20,847 people investigated whether supplementation with sodium selenite could prevent hepatitis B. The researchers concluded that: "The incidence of virus hepatitis infection in the test population was significantly lower than that of controls provided with no selenium" (Yu SY et al 1989).
i also read wrong at the begining reading tea and vitamins and probably overreacted seeing a website address in the post
we know phillanthus,i even try to order it with liquorize because known to be active on hbsag/hbeag and very little on hbvdna and made some posts in the past about it.
a chinese member told me it doesn t work, nobody got hbvdna und and normal alt in the trials, it might work for some people and that is good but definitely it doesn t work on many people or very potent, a combo with phillanthus, ntz and a nuc maybe more active on hbsag while nuc on hbvdna
the results of trails on phillanthus amarus i posted in the past, it is under novel treatments but the trial is of poor siginficance, hbvdna suppression -3log copies is very little usually 3 log can be even monitored only:
Well if it worked this good for me, maybe there is some one else out there it can work for, perhaps with my recommended method, frequency and strength it will work for others .
The results are dramatic! From Jan 09 to Mar 09 to go from over 10 Million down to 300 thousand viral load. What more proof do you need with a 97% reduction in VL?
If there is a possibility that something may work, but did not, I never felt like it was a waste even if I paid a lot of money for it. I am not rich at all! Things that did not work I gladly scratched off the list knowing I did my best and tried.
Extra Virgin coconut oil. Too hard to eat as its gross to eat oil. Capsules are ok but I wanted quick results. There was no dramatic decrease in VL the time period I was taking this.
Inconclusive: Parasite cleans: I read that most people some form of parasite from Tape worms to small liver fluke parasites that are like virus factories. Eliminating viruses alone may reduce it from your body but not completely if you have parasites. Again human parasites are disgusting yes, but also common.
I did a cleanse taking Black Walnut, Wormwood and Clove nothing came reduction did happen but I was still taking the Chanca Piedra tea.
I am still waiting for them to come in. Please recommend a place to upload the image.
--Scan your lab results with some parts covered for your privacy, then upload them to your photo album section, then provide their links in your postings as you dicuss them. See examples in my threads.
my sister has hbvdna relapsed to 5 logs but hbsag still decreasing on ntz, i will ask her to try it combo with ntz so we see if it can boosts hbsag/hbvdna decrease in a combo.
of coruse if possible i prefer her on combo with phillanthus rather than combo with nucs
are you hbe negative?3 glasses per day away from meals?
i menthion firosis by fibroscan because alt is a poor indicator of liver damage, it just shows liver damage in the moment you make it but not liver damage accumulated by the years, but a continuous alt level equal or lower than 19-20 both men and women can exclude any liver damage and regression of previous fibrosis.
the only increased risk can be from high hbvdna with normal alt even if low for liver cancer
what is important is for all to try phyllanthus because we have studies, to try in combo as i already said a lot of time ago, to try it with simvastatin which lowers cholesterol and always lower cholesterol by diet because viruses and cancers use that to make antigens, but solution is the right combo for anybody
just like the researchers told me in pisa, therapy needs to be personalized and hospitals cannot do that while researchers sometimes sometimes, maybe we can achieve it in this forum because all data in our posts is superior to a normal doctor's knowledge.
in any case doctor is always needed as supervisor and to suggest because we will never have the experience in the field of the doctors and a general knowledge of human body and other illnesses
I am very sleepy at the moment so forgive me if my spelling and grammar is off
I used about 2 table spoons full un a quart of water in a glass tea pot with a press.
I had 3 tea candles heating the tea water with the tea in for an hour.
You can do this on the stove. Just bring to a boil then simmer on very low heat for 45 min then simply let cool.
The tea was extremely dark and the minimum was 3 times a day. I treated it as though it was a medication and in the beginning would take it 5 times a day.
When I woke up 8:30, at lunch time 12:30 when I got home from work 5:30 before bed 11:30. The Virus reproduces fast so drinking the tea regularly stops or slows replication while protecting the liver from any damage.
I used the tea when I was coming down with the flue and the symptoms stop progressing and started to dissipate. I think the difference of why it worked with me is, I made the tea very very dark..
The down side to all that tea drinking is, a lot of going to the bathroom. I was so determined to get rid of this.
can you please confirm if you were hbe positive or negative when you started using the tea, being hbe negative gives the tea much more probability of being the cause of hbvdna decline since it means you already had your immune response and not immune tollerant
I started using the tea about 2 weeks after my doctor told me my condition was chronic that I was neg for the antibody that clears the virus. He said the next step was to check for damage and screen for liver cancer.
I nearly passed out from the shock of being told one of my vital organs may be damaged and cancer risk was much grater now, that life long medications may be required.
That was when my quest began to find something to make this all go away.
Like a medication or pill I drank a glass every 4 or 5 hours as I mentioned above.
Taking 200 micro grams a day of selenium with 2,000 Vitamin D will excelerate the decline of the VL
I have requested the original Test showing the neg status and also the one from last March as well.
Can you tell me what was the dosage that you took with (Chanca Piedra, Tea-Cut). Can this be taken directly in the water that is not adding anything but just boiling Chanca Piedra (dont know how much quantity) and then drinking it?
Also how much does the 100gms packet last? Do you think the one sold by sunfood is legitimate or good?
Please let us know thank you.
That is the only place at the time I could find the loose cut tea. Sunfood with the same site name. They are legit. I also bought their raw Brazil nuts as they are high in natural selenium, about 200 micro grams in each nut. Refrigerate the nuts though; they go bad after a month or 2.
100grmams of the loose tea lasts about a month. I will admit, I would put the two spoonful’s in the defuser, and the next day reuse the old with a new serving full. That stuff was more precious than gold to me in those early days and I would gasp if I spilled even just a little when pouring into the diffuser.
Bring the water to a boil 1st then add the tea. Keep the water extremely hot but not boiling for a half an hour and let cool. Get it as dark as you possibly can with out boiling and oxidizing the tea. I used a glass tea pot I bought at create and barrel and also the under glass holder that you put tea candles in to keep hot I put in the microwave boiled the water then pressed down on the defusser several times in an hour to realease its substance, getting it as dark as I could. A small amount tiny tidbits would make it in and I welcomed it to increase efficacy.
If you were to see my house, you see 8 large jars full of anti-hbv herbs scientifically studied to disrupt the virus replication methods.
I really drank that tea all day long, like a pill every 4 or 5 hours with every meal and before bed!
This is a interesting discussion. Let me add a few points to this discussion. But firstly, I want to say that I am not anti-vitamin or against any treatment that is not Big Pharm. Since we are all newly diagnosed at some point, the desire to find a cure is great. We google, read, and slowly becoming experts in chronic HepB. In this process we learned to be cautious because we haven't found any cure despite our best effort.
Since I live in NYC, I visited many ethnic towns / shopping areas / herbal stores and many and I do mean many have offered me a cure. I learned to be very cautoius. I learned to ask many question, like when do these herbs come from? are they pure? is it combine with other herb or ingrediants? If you are not getting a straight answer, it's best to ask your doctor first. Because I found "cold / flu" herbs that had antibiotics added in. So this herb will cure the cold bug but since the user will likely stop short and unknowing of the dosage of the antibiotic, it will increase risk for future resistance. I also saw various herb sure that had additional characters on the label. I asked my source and it was LAM. Now if you take this herb, you will see big drops in VL but obviously, it has the potential to cause serious problems. Since many of these things are imported with no regulations, make sure you do your research.
Also regardless of what you use, the virus is still trying to adapt. The risk is lower if you manage to stay UND. But it's trying to regain the upper hand and it has done so for many many generations.
So if you do use other treatment, make sure you monitor your VL and have regular labs. You still have to actively monitor your condition.
And if any of you find something that make the "S" antigen go away, make you you write me.
Wonderful post! Really describes the unregulated unknown. I personally know some big-name Chinese doctor bragging, when viagra just came out, that he could make lots of money by mixing his herbs with powered viagra!
The truth is this world has bad guys and there good ones;
The truth is there are unventional HBV treatments that don't work and there are ones that work;
The truth is life has no guarantee, luck plays a role, and risk is part of life;
By being willing to share the different routes we HBVers take, we can hope to make our community more lucky and less risky.
Sorry for the typos. It's late and I'm tire....darn HepB ;)
But yes, the LAM herb cure blew me away. How terrible it would be for someone who doesn't know his/her HepB stuff and takes the LAM herb thinking we are a bunch of idiots for not finding this "cure" earlier...yikes!
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