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Chronic Hbe negative HBV for 14 years.. Now raising its head?
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Chronic Hbe negative HBV for 14 years.. Now raising its head?

(reposted..)

My hbe neg- hbv, has not been showing itself recently in LFT and HBVDNA numbers or u/s or F'scan: (ALT less than 35 for last 3-4 months-has remained between 19 and 44 in last 7-8 months. And hbvdna that was 28,500 cop/ml in July, is UND since September, 2012-checked twice).

However, the news is that:
a) my cholesterol numbers are getting bad. Total cholesterol is 5.5 against max limit of 5.2, LDL is 3.8 against max limit of 3.4, and HDL is 0.99 against min of 0.9.
b) Prothrombin time was 14 sec in Sep, 12 (lab limit 13). Now it is 15 sec. INR is 1.1.
c) Most importantly, kidneys: Creatinine has reached 114 umol/L (upper limit 124), and uric acid is 465 umol/L (limit 420).

This is a dilemma. If I try to control my cholesterol, that might make blood  thinner which will further increase Proth. time. Also how to manage RFT (Uric acid and creatinine)?
I am not taking any medicines etc now. Just green tea 1/day, and honey in warm water 1/day. I am a thin person, and have started walking 2-3 km a day recently.

So what advice do you have please? Does it have to be an antiviral now? with hbvdna und and ALT in and around 30s? Could that be even useful?

(I am thinking to re-start vit D: had stopped it earlier after taking for 2-3 weeks as i thought it is making my kidney function go down, but even after stopping it, the RFT values are still going slightly up instead of down. I am still going to monitor RFT, and calcium). One thing: they say stress can elevate chol. And I have been stressed lately, maybe that explains the cholesterol part.

Thank you very much.
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks and I am on heptech protocol for one week by now. I plan to monitor by fibroscan as it is available in my country.
44 Comments Post a Comment
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Avatar_m_tn
i will strongly advocate ur using HEptech products. i used to have raised cholesterol, but now everythings normal
here is my protocol:
TNF, vid D, Hep tech (All 4 products), Sim. And of course a very healthy diet
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Avatar_m_tn
Can you share your heptech experience? Do you monitor progress by fibroscan after starting Heptech protocol?
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Avatar_m_tn
I have not been able to have fibroscan done cos not yet available in the country where i live. But i plan to travel soon to have this done. I would strongly recomment the Heptech products.
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks and I am on heptech protocol for one week by now. I plan to monitor by fibroscan as it is available in my country.
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Avatar_m_tn
How can you strongly recommend heptech protocol if you do not know your fibroscan score baseline when you started and your score now. Heptech is suppose to drop this score. if you do not know your score how can you say it works or not?  
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for your suggestion.

And the country that I am from, I haven't been able to find heptech products. Also, old posters that I take advise from (such as stef2011) do not yet recommend it for me. I will still try to find what it costs and how to get it across.

(PS: I wanted to select your first reply as Best Answer, but a typo, that I don't know how to undo, selected another post :) )
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Avatar_m_tn
1. Could you please copy/paste the reply/advise that you gave me yesterday on the Irbesartan post? I hadn't saved it, and its gone now.

2. Is starting commonly available vit c (maybe higher quantity for desired effect) any good till i can find the type you advised, which might take me some time?

Many thanks, once again!
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Avatar_m_tn
1. Could you please copy/paste the reply/advise that you gave me yesterday on the Irbesartan post? I hadn't saved it, and its gone now.

it was probably advice to wait if my tests showed hbv receptor was blocked, sadly the test showed Irbesartan is not able to block the receptor in vivo or at least continually for 24hrs so it wont be of any use.

2. Is starting commonly available vit c (maybe higher quantity for desired effect) any good till i can find the type you advised, which might take me some time?

i think not, normal vit c is not absorbed 100% but max 16% so to get in the blood about 1g of normal vit c you have to take 10g....plus normal vit c makes diarrea (diarrhea) and stomach disconfort....while in liposomal form you take 1g and almost a complete 1g reaches inside the cells probably even better than IV making no harm to stomach whatever liposomes dose you take






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Avatar_m_tn

we know it works because it is FDA approved, there are human trial and some members experiece including mine on regressing cirrhosis superfast

what joc2011 will not be able to determine is what baseline fibrosis he had and what results he achieved but since it has no sides effects (except the cost) he can only have benefits from it for general health....of course it would be very important to have a baseline firboscan
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Avatar_m_tn
Steff, your case of cirrhosis reversal is real illustration of man’s will for all of us. Even when it looked hopeless you found the way out, many people would not!  No doubt it is great achievement and you are the man. But how much of your success would you assign to Heptech protocol? I googled every single ingredient that heptech protocol has on the internet and their protocol seems to be very beneficial for liver even very very beneficial. The thing that drives me crazy is that I can not find any other person except of you and Todd’s testimonial on their web page who improved liver condition by this protocol and have it documented by fibroscan. Users like joc2011 saying “I strongly recommend” I do not take into the account because there is no evidence to recommend. Even heptech web page says that their protocol effect on the liver condition can be checked by Fibroscan only. Also if this protocol is so good why there is no information on other successful of liver improvement on the net but only in this forum?  I received full package of heptech last week and the manufacture date on the bottle says year 2009 while this is 2013 now. At least 4 years since this protocol has been available and exactly 4 years since this pills have been made. 4 years is enough time for many users testimonials to appear on the net as it usually happens with many other thing but I couldn’t find hardly any except yours and their web page. Why? The product is so narrow oriented that should be widely discussed by hbv and hcv communities.

Also why manufacture date 2009, what is it? Stale product? Or overestimated sales plan back in 2009? If this supplement is so good I can not see a reason for low sales, they should be selling them as apple selling Iphones coming up with better model every half year rather then selling 4 years old stuff.

I am not saying Heptech is bad or smth. This is just questions I have in mind when taking 21 heptech tablets per day.

Steff and Studyforhope you guys are the most experienced and proper educated on this forum please give feedback on my peradventures. I think not only I have such thoughts and many forum users would benefit from your feedback on these my questions.
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Avatar_m_tn
they had human trials ask for the data of those trials which allowed FDA to approve their protocol for cirrhosis but i think the mice model with human livers is already a prove of the effect of the protocol

you can also see if it works from platlets, pt and albumin which are all low on cirrhosis, after few months on it there is increase in platlets and albumin already, this is on compensated cirrhosis

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Avatar_m_tn
I will keep on taking for one month and make platlets and fibroscan then
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Avatar_m_tn
fibroscan changes are detectable after one year, not eralier, before the regression there is a pick in firbosis of about 1kpa and then there is the decrease, if fatty liver is present there can be no regression, so i suggest after 6-12 months the first reading after regression has started the changes are faster and every 6 months is ok
in my case kinetics were not homogeneous, slow at first and then sometime no change and sometimes even 4-5kpa change

bmi has the biggest impact especially on cirrhosis or severe fribrosis with bmi less than 23 the best

platlets/albumin if low like 138-150 have an increase towards 200 in few months.hbvdna needs to be und while alt can be abnormal, in my case always 40-50
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Avatar_m_tn
You need about one year to see substantial fibrosis regression, unfortunately.

The heptech study at the Alberta university with chimeric mice bearing a human liver and intense fibrosis showed excellent regression of fibrosis verified by direct microscopic and molecular biology analysis of these livers.

The human study progression seems delayed due to extra demands by the Canadian health authorities.
I doubt that many heptech users have a chance to follow progress with sequential fibroscans. And if they do, they would not report it on the Internet, except in a forum like this one. Why don't you post the question if anybody reading this forum had used heptech with fibroscans, properly spaced and had NO improvement?
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks. My search for liposomal vit c is on. On the net, I have so far been able to find one link to a possibly available brand of liposomal product in Pak:

http://www.magiclamp.pk/productView.php?ASIN=B004EKJU9E&cat1=3760931&cat2=&cat3=&cat4=&cat5=#

My hemoglobin level is close to upper limit 9around 15 - 15.2). Will vit c raise it (iron) to dangerous levels?

Would you advocate homeopathic medicines to cater for raised uric acid? They are harmless and a number of friends have used them for kidney problems. I am beginning to have intermittent pain in some joints- maybe due to increased uric acid. Thanks
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Avatar_m_tn
i can recomend livon labs which i use, i dont know any other producer directly

vit c plus glutathione are ok and glutathione (gsh) may help with the iron overload
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Avatar_m_tn
Could you please clarify the following for me?

1. Broadly speaking, what is an antiviral's mode of action against hbv? We know antivirals do not fight the surface antigen, so HBsAg is not their target. We also know they can (in some cases) work against undetectable hbvdna to improve patients' overall 'health'/prognosis, so the target in such cases is not the replicating dna. If they target hbvdna within the liver (hbvdna that is released by the liver and gets reabsorbed, hence und hbvdna by blood tests), then how can we explain antivirals getting to kidneys to improve renal function? What exactly do drugs like Tnf and Entv target and where?

2. Is there a correlation of alphafetoprotein with chronic hbv with no HCC? What can slowly increasing AFP numbers possibly mean: (a) only  HCC, or, even (b) simply progressing chronic hbv? Do you know of a study that looks at correlation between AFP and hbvdna or between AFP and ALT?

Thanks.
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Avatar_m_tn
Antivirals incompletely block the synthesis of new HBV RNA and DNA. They target the viral Polymerase Enzyme  inside the hepatocytes. As a result the virion production is reduced to a very small amount.
This means only a tiny amount of virions circulate in the blood, the result is a reduction in the stimulation of the immune systems attack on the liver, hence the inflammation and fibrosis production is reduced and liver damage is limited.
The small amount of virions still produced gets locally absorbed onto liver cells and maintains a constant small amount of reinfection, balancing the elimination of infected cells. Thus the total percentae of infected liver cells does not reduce much and those cell produce the surface antigen.

It is btw never the surface antigen that is attacked by anything, but the infected cells, the surface antigen simply reflects the number of cells in which it is made.

Antivirals simply enter kidney cells as they are circulating medications. They do not improve kidney function, sometimes they can be toxic to the kidney cells since they tend to concentrate in them.

AFP can be mildly elevated simply by hepatic inflammation, not indicating HCC. In HCC the levels tend to become very high, once the tumor starts to grow.
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks. The way antivirals work is pretty clear to me now.

1. About renal problems: If hbv causes renal problems, like in my case, (i have high serum creatinine level, high uric acid, with normal urea) most likely due to hbv, then shouldn't controlling the root cause (hbv) through antivirals help? I thought I read one or two studies where use of Lam in hbv helped renal function.
If not, is there no way out except waiting for total renal failure? Anything else other than antivirals then? Stefano, you suggested baking soda to someone once if i remember. I dont remember the quantity.

2. Also, for patients (like me) who have Alt persistently in the approx 20-35 range for last 8-10 months, and und hbvdna, doesn't 1. deteriorating renal function (Cr 116 against lab max limit 138, and Uric acid 465 against limit 425) and 2. slow but steady rise of Prothrombin time (lab upper limit 13 sec; my value was 14 in Aug and 15 now) become an important factor to consider treatment? Or does the no-trmt-end-point-defined for hbe- patients still remains reason enough to hold till at least one of u/s, fibroscan, Alt, hbvdna start to go bad? Anything out of the box for the two problems i am facing, deteriorating renal function and increasing PT please? (Stef, I am going to go for the 24 hr urine Cr test next week) and will post those results too).

PS: My symptoms nowadays: mild occasional pain in URQ 4-5 times a day for a few mins, occasional buzzing headaches (stress?), intermittent joint pain. Overall, generally fit, office as usual. Very worried.

Many thanks, again.
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Avatar_m_tn

the ways i know to keep kidneys function at beast are:
fibroguard, baking soda 1 tea spoon daily and urine ph kept at about 7, nac, coq10, fish oil

i only had creatinine increase when on etv+alinia 2g, i guess alinia made creatinine increase at that time and fibroguard resolved it.

since then i keep using full heptech protocol which has fibroguard, nac.i dont use coq10 which is mainly from japan and evrything from there is not good now due to radiation.baking soda only when i feel stomach acid and about 2g epa+dha fish oil, all this as prevention and to use tdf without issues
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Avatar_m_tn

what about your diet, bmi, blood pressure, sugars and fats in ur diets?is there any possible improvments in this?

high blood pressure can dmage kidneys too if present
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Avatar_n_tn
regarding Heptech products...
The last last order I received was all fresh product, with the exception of the HeptoSheild. Apparently this product was manufactured by a division of Pfizer, under full nitrogen blanket which removes all O2, which in-turn blocks ROS. The out come is a 5 year shelf life. Anyone can contact HepTech for all their supporting analytical reports backing this technology.

I have now been using Heptech products for over 5 years and continue to get great results. Yes, Gilead's Sofosbuvir (formerly PSI-7977 or GS-7977) is coming but we all need to take care of our livers while we are waiting.
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Avatar_n_tn
regarding my last comment...Sorry I forgot I was on an HBV blog. Viread is still the lead drug of choice as it has proven to be resistance free for up to five years now. Most researchers agree there is no signs of resistance on the horizon...There was also I study from a few years back where approximately 23% of the subjects converted their HBV Surface Antigen using Viread at it's normal 300mg/day...Truly amazing! If you can't find the study and would like to view drop me an email and I will dig it up.
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Avatar_m_tn
What are the great results you reffer to can you share please?
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Avatar_m_tn
1. Diet: Balanced. Morning first thing: 1 tsp honey in lukewarm water, burns fat. (blood-sugar-fasting already in control).
Breakfast: Brown bread 3-4 slices+potatoes or pulses/lentils+1 egg daily (from last week, i have eliminated yolk and my total cholesterol has come down-will cx HDL soon).
Lunch and Dinner: Low fat, I chose from veggies, chicken, pulses and lentils, boiled fish. very little mutton-1 small serving/week. In Pak/India we always take all meals with either 'roti' (whole wheat flour bread) OR rice.
Fruits: Generally 1 serving/day. Nowadays apples, melon. Avoiding bananas (Potassium bad for kidney i heard?)
ZERO: alcohol, smoking, beef. Very rarely soft drinks eg 7up (max 1/week)

bmi: 20.7, mainly due to diet. Have lost 4-5 kgs with diet i think

BP: generally 110/70 - 115/75; Sometimes, like last month it once or twice elevated to 135/85 but only for a day or two..

Stress is there, obviously :)

IMPORTANT:
As for kidneys and antivirals, here are two reference:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16164651
http://www.flyingpublisher.com/9002_09.php

I am excited about baking soda. Planning to start in a day or two. Any cautions for that?
Thanks.
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Avatar_m_tn
I am excited about baking soda. Planning to start in a day or two. Any cautions for that?

just check urine ph by papaer you can buy at pharmacy and keep it around 7, this works also for cancer prevention, cancer cannot develop in ph 7, this is also used on chemios as boosting
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Avatar_n_tn
The great results I was referring to was a noticeable increase in energy and cognitive abilities. I also just feel better all around...less overall inflammation in my body...including brain...No more fog head!

The best part was the decrease in my FibroScan as it has dropped over 8 points in the last four years...I am hoping to retest this summer.

Regarding the above diet posting...Please always choose low glycemic Index foods which in-turn will reduce the amount of insulin your liver has to manage. Increased energy levels go hand in hand with stable blood sugar levels.
I normally recommend a 1:1 PRO to CHO ratio, eaten at the same time, spaced 2.5-3 hrs apart. This allows the PRO to buffer insulin response, which again will help stabilize energy levels. Optimal macro-nutrient breakdown 40/40/20 (CHO/PRO/FAT).

The other very important aspect of supporting liver health (via detox) is proper hydration. Most people do NOT drink enough H20 per day. Sorry coffee does not count, it actually is a diuretic and has the opposite effect on the body. There are two ways to calculate hydration the first is by metabolic rate, and the second is using ones body weight...I find this method much easier. Our bodies require 30 - 40 ml. of H20 for each kilogram i.e. a 100kg person would require a minimum of 3 liters, and a maximum of 4 liters per day...You would be surprised how many people don't come close to achieving proper hydration everyday, which in-turns impairs or slows metabolism (the rate at which all cellular functions occur).

Please take the time to run these basic calculations on yourselves and I know you will be shocked by the endpoint.
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Avatar_m_tn
"I normally recommend a 1:1 PRO to CHO ratio, eaten at the same time, spaced 2.5-3 hrs apart. This allows the PRO to buffer insulin response.."

Could you please elaborate what these are? Thanks.
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Avatar_m_tn
The latest..
The mild intermittent in liver area pain made me undergo an ultrasound last week.
Turned out I had a liver hemangioma. That was the first time I ever heard the word, and when told its a tumor, I got scared. Anyway, radiologist said it appeared benign. Liver texture was smooth. Portal dia 7-8 mm.
I underwent a CT scan, and it turned  out to be benign, God be praised.

I have been reading about hemangiomas and especially in Hep B patients. Not a lot of info is available. Some suggest it should be left alone. Some say it should be surgically removed if there are symptoms, but that involves risks. No consensus on what causes them.

Can they be reduced using diet / natural means? What happens to them in the long run.

My AFP is slightly raised but still within limits (upper limit 5.5, mine is 4.9). Alt is 29, bilirubin is 16 (upper limit 17). I am generally ok except 1. slight intermittent pain in various places liver area, and 2. headaches that come down to teeth/jaws (bearable but annoying).

Any suggestions please?
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Avatar_m_tn
Sorry..
I am due to have fibroscan next week. My second ever; had one about 6 months back, was ok (f0-f1).

Thanks.
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Avatar_m_tn
it is definitely a benigne tumor type, no worries of any kind about it but it is best to keep hbvdna und and hbsag as low as possible

in the meantime a way of healthy life keeping low ph, active machrophages and so on it is the best choice for all of us on HCC prevention, so suggestions:

keep good vit c levels
keep good vit d3 levels
keep good ph around 7 (check urine ph easier than blood ph)

maitake and gcmaf can keep machrophages activated so if any cell turns in to tumor one it gets eaten by the activated machrphages, an example of what gcmaf does to machrophages in the presence of cancer cells:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1WZrnCcH24

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Avatar_m_tn

by the way forgot the news on cofee or even better green coffe extract and simvastatin
the action of simvastatin on cancer prevention is activation of apoptosis of cancer cells (the cancer cells suicide themselves)
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Avatar_m_tn
i got a coq10 brand called Awardin plus from Werrick. I am unable to find where the CoQ10 in it was originally made. You advise to avoid CoQ10 from Japan. Any advise? How important is CoQ10?
Thanks.
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Avatar_m_tn
definitely data about radiation in japan is not true, there has been many data hidden and it is worst than thought, even sea has been contaminated and this has been confirmed lately while it was hidden since today

i myself stopped coq10 totally after the radiation pollution there, it is not important at all for the liver or hbv infection
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Avatar_m_tn
here docs strictly say to about soda as it has sodium which increses blood pressure in vessels and increases chances of bleeding.i m not very sure.
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Avatar_m_tn
never saw a human trial to prove such idiocy, my blood pressure is very normal...maybe the food and the vit d deficiency which make metabolic diseases are the problem

we are very lucky we have mediterranean diet in italy as part of our culture and very difficult to change which protects us so much more than the rest of the world, we just have vit d deficiency anyway here due to indoor life
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Avatar_m_tn
they also prohibit use of salt nacl. to reduce bleeding in advance cases.
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for the advice. CoQ10 was once advised by you for helping my kidneys, but I am convinced now its better to avoid it for now.
  Well, so far my kidneys are borderline ok, maintaining creatinine around 1.2. I am trying to keep it there with baking soda (taking just a pinch in water daily, 6 days a week). Next few months will show the trend.

1. I think I cannot try fish oil because it thins the blood. Because my PTT had gone upto 15 sec, but I repeated (at a better lab) after 2 months and it showed 12.9 sec.
2. Heptech/fibroguard not avl here and I cannot afford either. :)
I will update my latest F/scan, U/S and bloodwork tonight or tomorrow, and discuss some alternatives I have in mind.

Grateful.
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for the advice. CoQ10 was once advised by you for helping my kidneys, but I am convinced now its better to avoid it for now.

yes it is very helpful maybe brands like solgar can declare where it is from

1. I think I cannot try fish oil because it thins the blood. Because my PTT had gone upto 15 sec, but I repeated (at a better lab) after 2 months and it showed 12.9 sec.

i think you are getting messed up by the methods and range:
PT norm range 12-15sec
APTT <40sec
PTT 0.8-1.2 but this is not in seconds

if you take vit k1 you get normal factors but i dont think they are abnormal
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Avatar_m_tn
Fibroscan History / latest: Have had total 3 so far: Went for the first one in Sep, 2012 after the temporary re-activation of my old inactive HBVDNA : result was 3.3. I started vit D3, green tea and all the diet care (exclusions) as you advised me. After about 5-6 months, the repeat Fib result was 4.4. I continued with the same diet etc and thank God, in Dec, 2013 I was again at 3.3. (Fibroscan responds late?)

HBsAg Quant (Abbot Architect): Done 2 times so far. In Feb, 13 it was 2674. Recent, in Dec, 13 it is down to 1820.

Kidneys: taking baking soda (less than advised though, as more gives me upset stomach). Kidneys have shown slight improvement (creatinine remains less than 100)

HBVDNA last checked in Nov was -. Has remained negative last one year.

I have noticed a trend of liver area (and under ribs) pain. It comes for few days and then goes away on its own. Started again yesterday, intermittently- is bearable though.

My last u/s was ok. hemangioma size etc remains same. AFP last checked in Nov: is just within limit.

Any comments?

Question. You are HBVDNA- too. What made you start antiviral? Good to avoid HCC risk?
HCC is really scary, but I cannot increase D3 intake (current 5000) as it tends to increase serum Calcium. Will go for D3 test end of the month, but I am sure it would be just around 40 or so going by my previous trend. Will post result.

Thanks
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Avatar_m_tn
Nagalase monitoring is not available in any hospital / lab of Pakistan that I have checked online or visited. Also, gcmaf for treatment seems to be not available. Are these very special/expensive? An idea about gcmaf's price?

Can any member tell me if gcmaf is avl in India or UAE.
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Avatar_m_tn
dont worry about gcmaf, too expensive and only available by gcmaf.eu or saisei japan, useful only if nagalase is so elevated to make immune suppression

to test it you need to ship frozen  blood to redlabs.com or http://www.europeanlaboratory.nl/

so it is difficult, you also need a lab to draw blood and ship frozen with dry ice or proper type of shipment.i mean if you are at very high risk for hcc it makes sense to test it
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks.

1. Any comment on my HBsAg that has come down from around 2600 to around 1800 in about 10 months?

2. What important factor made you start antiviral since you had HBVDNA und and had got cirrhosis under control using heptech products?
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Avatar_m_tn
http://www.genomeweb.com/rnai/arrowhead-cleared-begin-phase-iia-trial-hbv-drug

Arrowhead Cleared to Begin Phase IIa Trial of HBV Drug

Arrowhead Research this week announced that it has received clearance from regulators in Hong Kong to begin a phase IIa trial of its siRNA-based hepatitis B treatment ARC-520.

The single-dose, dose-escalation trial is designed to determine the drug's ability to suppress hepatitis B surface antigen in combination with the oral antiviral agent entecavir in chronic HBV patients.

Single doses of ARC-520 will be evaluated at up to two ascending doses of 1.0 mg/kg and 2.0 mg/kg, Arrowhead said. At each of the two dose levels to be evaluated, a cohort of 8 patients will be enrolled with 6 being dosed with ARC-520 and 2 being dosed with placebo.

With the regulatory approval in hand, Arrowhead said it expects to begin dosing patients "shortly," and that top-line results from the study will be available in the third quarter of the year.
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