Food based multivitamins

[cam4930]

I have been taking certain food based multivitamins (Rainbow Men Just One). Is it safe? There is 100% vitamin A, but no iron. Does that much of Vita A  plus dietary intake of vit A result in too much?

I also usually eat a lot of nuts (almond, cashew, peanuts). Will I have problem of iron overload?

Thanks!

[stef2011]

check your fibrosis, it is not possible to know it without fibroscan or biopsy, if it is sevre fibrosis it takes 3-6 years of fully hbvdna und and low alt, in my cirrhosis situation i had it low normal and now fully normal but cirrhosis is still there

when i suggest i am on the "be extra carefull", maybe sometimes more than needed, but i do that because of what happened to me, that's to say without fibroscan or biopsy cirrhosis/severe fibrosis is absolutely silent to doctors and all other tests too

as to fibroscan readings they can overstimate f2-f3 because of inflamation but never return a lower result than real while biopsy can do this always, making many readings you get a very good result close to real quantity of fibrosis.it is not accurate in fat people, abnormal alt more than 200

in US they didn t start even the trials which are not needed since machine is routine in the rest of the world especially europe but i think it is just a market issue because it is a european product, infact an american company is starting fibroscan production called echosens, this explains all the trick, and FDA is getting ready fo its approval (what a coincidence with about 6 years delay...) if it was not reliable they'd never think about to copy it in US much easier to buy it from main producers in france

[cam4930]

I don't have any bleeding problem right now. My platelet count is normal. In the past, I had bleeding issue, but not bleeding for no reason. Just it stopped slower than it would right now if there is bleeding. So my guess is that my liver condition in the past was not as good as in today. My September biopsy is G0-1F0. I might have recovered from some liver damage in the past to F0 by myself without drug intervention.

[stef2011]

healthy life style is the minimum base where to start, i am worried about what you said about the bleeding, if liver is not in advanced cirrhosis you should have about same time for bleeding to recover, have you ever checked platlets, PT and fibroscan or biopsy?longer time when bleeding might due to other causes but if platlets are low you are sure bleeding is slower and advanced fibrosis is present

one of the first signs of severe fibrosis/cirrhosis is a lowering in platlets from baseline values made yearly.
in my case the only sign that made me very worried was platlets in the lower normal range 148 when alt was about 600 before starting entecavir, i though this might be cirrhosis...unfortunately i discovered about the fibroscan machine too late and it confirmed cirrhosis months later

[cam4930]

Thanks for the explanation. Everybody wants to get rid of the virus so seeking for a cure or a hope of cure is natural. But I quickly realized that only statistics that matters. An individual experience does not provide much for another person. I understand your kindness of hoping other hbvers not to detour from the most scientific approach, even though there is no cure for now. I have been on tdf several days already. My whole intention for some of the supplement ideas is to enhance the general health or something good to liver, but not anything potentially harmful to liver.

Since I have mishandled my condition over the past 20 years, I will make mistakes again. Fortunately and luckily I turns out to be OK. I don't have data of my past years, but I am sure that my general health has improved over the years, mainly due to less stress and better life style. I don't believe my liver damage was minimum all the time in the past, since I have pre-core mutation, so the virus replication was not possible to be kept UND. I believe my liver must have recovered from damage since my general health improved. I remembered that my bleeding stopped much slower than today. For example, if I had to draw blood for a test, it took a while to press to stop bleeding in the past. Now it take much less time. It sounds to me that even without anti-virals, my own immune system could have suppress the viral activity and regenerated the liver damage. That is why I am looking for ways to improve my general health.

[stef2011]

but those who have hbv knowledge know that hbvdna drop from millions to undetactable happens normally on all hbv cronic since hbv cronic is made of periods with active virus replication and inactive virus replication for the most, rarely continuous high replication

also hbvdna is not the virus itself but just an idea of replication in the cells.
hbsag quantity and cccdna quantity can give an idea of the quantity of the virus in the liver.hbvdna can be totally und while the liver is full of virus

on the contrary a low or undetactable hbvdna reflects low replication and low liver damage with normal alt, this flactuating hbvdna allows liver regeneration (if hbvdna is continuatively in the millions while there is immune response we will get to cirrhosis very fast) and a long life to us (and virus too unfortunately)

[stef2011]

since it was said i have never seen such a big drop of hbvdna.........

this is the biggest hbvdna drop reported in our forum

Combo Treatment: Baraclude + Viread (results)
by hepbinme, Apr 30, 2009 02:10AM
Tags: viread, treatments, combo, baraclude, rescue therapy
Hey guys, I'm new to the forum -- I just found the thread through Google by searching Viread + Baraclude. My apologies if I ask a few stupid questions, I'm still learning a lot about HepB. =]

I want to start off by saying that I have been taking both Baraclude + Viread as part of a study in November. I will try to be specific as possible, but all my paperwork and results are back at home since I'm away for college. I'm a 23 year old Asian male and found out I had chronic HepB.

---------------------------------------------------DATA---------------------------------------------------
• 1st blood results were (taken in 07/18/2008). NOT ON TREATMENT
HEPATITIS B VIRAL DNA, QUANT PCR             1,630,000,000 H    <160 copies/mL

• 2nd blood results were (taken in 08/19/2008). NOT ON TREATMENT
HEP B VIRAL DNA QT                                      1,020,000,000 H     <160 copies/mL
                                                *some fluctuation in numbers, but still very high

         ♦I started the combo drugs sometime in November with the high DNA count above, if not more.

• 3rd blood results were (taken in December 2008): ON TREATMENT
HEP B VIRAL DNA QT                                      300,000 H     <160 copies/mL

• 4th blood results were (taken in January 2009): ON TREATMENT
HEP B VIRAL DNA QT                                      801 H    <160 copies/mL

• 5th blood results were (taken in April 2009): ON TREATMENT
HEP B VIRAL DNA QT                                      201 H     <160 copies/mL

My doctor said the goal is to get my HepBeAG to turn negative as it is the engine behind the whole process, and the viral count to Zero.

[stevenNYer]

I deleted 2 posts with suggestive to external links.  Please don't post any links to outside miracle cures or sales site.

Those who are interested in vitamins to support their health is encouraged to do research and talk to their own doctors.  

As I have mentioned before, their are herbal cures for all kind of chronic diseases for sale in various parts of NYC and they have all sorts of studies, charts, doctors to back it all up.  But the truth these chronic diseases are still here.

If any of you see a post supporting an external site, please note or message me.  

[shellywinters]

True however no one ever had such a dramatic viral drop as I had while confirmed chronic condition. That ws my own doing and I am so glad I can post here my protocols.

I think most people here get in and then have it for 5 10, 20 years or so. We all have it from birth. The ones that cleared it have it for at least 25 years while in mothers womb. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?

[cam4930]

It sounds to me that there several people who had lost their hbsag by themselves. This may be due to the genetic factor because the hbsag seroconversion rate is so high within your direct relatives compared to general public of 1%. So you may have some special genetic support to fight the virus but other people may not have.

[shellywinters]

Hi there,

Wow, those look like great vitamins! With those levels the best thing about what they do is protect your liver from free radical damage. They aid your immune system even if it isn’t eliminating the HBV, it is doing its job with other invaders.

The selenium and vitamin D have been documented to reduce risk of cancers which is great news for us who have HBV.

The selenium I have read may actually reduce virus levels but the dosage is 400 micrograms daily and it has to be the plant based selenium like Selenomax.

The viruses replicate, because their genetic codes include a gene that is virtually identical to that of the human enzyme glutathione peroxidase, they rob their hosts of selenium thus perpetuating their environment to thrive. Our bodies use selenium to power the immune system and as an antioxidant.  We can not efficiently defend ourselves with depleted levels. Increased levels increased strength of the immune system. It may not be anti viral, but virus level drop because the liver is less of a friendly environment to replicate for all viruses.

The research I have come across regarding Vitamin D, E and Selenium make a multivitamin a valuable addition to any regimen for those who are going through HBV acute or chronic infection.


My Aunt claims that it was Vitamin E (IU 400) alone every day for 8 years that lowered her virus levels when she was in her 30's. She said her levels started to drop when she started using it. She no longer has HBV and took nothing else. Another Aunt took Interferon and was seriously ill for 5 months but is Hep B free now.

My mother does not have it any more but I don’t know how she and my brother cleared it. It sounds silly but they both use to drink allot. Its just me my sister and one other aunt now. We were all born with it. None of us have ever had elevated liver enzymes. Our bodies think its just part of our system.

The 2 spoon full are for a medium tea pot size for the Chanca Piedra Tea. Its about 4 big glasses or 5 small glasses full for each tea pot. Each tea pot is daily. I bought the glass tea pot at create and barrel. It has a tea diffuser and put the loose tea right in. You can buy the glass under holder, designed for putting tea candles in to keep the tea warm/hot. I microwaved the water till boiling then sat it over the 2 tea candles and pressed the tea frequently to release its substance. Repeatedly this made it much darker than just boiling it.


I see in my last post the last sentence looks like I am referring to multivitamins interfering with the viral replicating process but I meant the tea does. I think I cut that sentence and pasted in wrong from MS word.

[cam4930]

Thanks for the message. Can you confirm that you took 2 tsp per day and drink the one brew for the whole day or 2 tsp each brew and drink 3-4 brews?

I am already taking multivitamins every day. The vitamins I am taking includes:

Vitamin D3 (Cholecalciferol) 1800 IU
Vitamin E (d-alpha Tocopheryl Succinate) 500 IU
Selenium (Selenomethionine, Amino Acid Chelate) 200 mcg
Zinc (Citrate) 20 mg

As to hbsag loss, there is 1% hbver who lose hbsag per year. Vitamins may help the general health, but may not play decisive role in hbsag eradication, as research has pointed out. I am very realistic in this aspect. I knew lipoic acid and took it for a while with Acetyl L-carnitine for weight loss, but I found out that adjusting diet is even effective. I have lost 10 lbs over 3-4 months. I also take fish oil for omega-3.

[almaja]

Hi I have reed about phyllanthus amarus before and I can not find thet in the stores is there another name for it ?can you plise tell me where I can get thet is the US.?

[shellywinters]

I STRONGLY recommend taking GNS brand of vitamins called Mega Men sport
It has Alpha Lipoic Acid that protects the liver from damage. (Please google Alpha Lipoic Acid regarding liver health – good stuff!)

It has 200 micro grams of Selenium and Vitamin D as mentioned in my prior post.
It does not have the high levels of vitamin E though but the Selenium is much more valuable as it alone can reduce viral loads. (google Selenium, Glutathione and the reduction of VL for HBV and other viruses)

[shellywinters]

I would also say your 4th plan is to take a multivitamin daily that has high levels of vitamin D, E and Selenium. E is an antioxidant. My aunt swears that she got rid of HBV with just 1 daily vitamin E cap of at least 400 IU. It took her 8 though.

Vitamin D also powers your immune system. More people get sick in the winter months due to less sun exposure.  We naturally get vitamin D from sun exposure. IF you don’t get out much in the sun you should consider at least 2,000 IU day of Vitamin D. Just so you know our body makes from 50,000 IU to 100,000 IU of natural Vitamin D in one day of at least 3 or 4 hours of sun exposure.

two heaping tea spoons of the Chanca Piedra. After a while I did not need the tea spoon I knew how much to put in.  It does not have to be exact, in a regular tea pot. Simmer on very low heat. Make the tea as dark as you can.

I have not tried the capsules and I can not tell you if they are more or less effective.

I do think that the more frequent you drink the tea matters. While it is on you it is working and while not, its isnt. Made sense to me to dring it frequently to cut down on viral replication.


Antioxidant Therapy. As with other diseases related to inflammation and tissue damage, oxidative stress is a key mediator that continues and magnifies the ongoing disease process. The livers of people who have hepatitis show reduced levels of antioxidants, which are consumed in an effort to protect the liver. According to a report in the June 1998 issue of the Journal of Clinical Gastroenterology, investigators showed that nutritional antioxidants are potential therapeutic agents for diseases such as hepatitis. Other investigators reported at the same time that oxidative stress (free-radical damage) is often seen in hepatitis B and may contribute to the emergence of hepatocellular carcinoma, seen in patients after years of chronic liver inflammation. The study stated that antioxidants that down-regulate oxidative damage may be a useful complement to specific antiviral drugs in the therapy of viral diseases.
In a related study, vitamin E (alpha-tocopherol) was reported in a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study to be a successful adjunct approach when combined with alpha-interferon therapy in the treatment of hepatitis because of its strong antioxidant activity (von Herbay A et al 1997).
Selenium. The protective role of selenium against HBV was reported in 1997 in the journal Biological Trace Element Research. The study reported that, in areas of China with high rates of hepatitis B and primary liver cancer, high levels of dietary selenium reduced the incidence of liver cancer and hepatitis B infection. In a 4-year trial of 130,471 people, those who were given selenium-spiked table salt showed a 35.1 percent reduction in primary liver cancer, compared with the group who received salt without selenium. In the same journal report, another clinical study of 226 people who tested positive for hepatitis B showed that taking a 200-mcg tablet a day of selenium reduced the incidence of primary liver cancer to zero. Upon cessation of selenium supplementation, the incidence of primary liver cancer began to rise. The study seems to indicate that taking selenium on a continuous basis is beneficial to people who have viral hepatitis (Yu SY et al 1997).
These human trials have been duplicated in animal studies. The animal studies showed that selenium supplementation reduced hepatitis B infection by 77.2 percent and precancerous liver lesions by 75.8 percent.
Another study in the Journal of Trace Elements and Medical Biology reported the role of trace minerals in diseases such as liver disease and hepatitis. The report indicates that, while there is still some debate regarding the specific role of trace minerals, minerals such as selenium and zinc are of benefit to those who have diseases such as hepatitis (Loguercio C et al 1997).
A 3-year study of 20,847 people investigated whether supplementation with sodium selenite could prevent hepatitis B. The researchers concluded that: "The incidence of virus hepatitis infection in the test population was significantly lower than that of controls provided with no selenium" (Yu SY et al 1989).

[cam4930]

Thank you two very much for the discussions!

Here is my plan:

1) take tenofovir
2) adopt more healthy life style, including exercises.
3) drink phyllanthus tea

It looks to me that phyllanthus tea doesn't have toxin. It is also "stone breaker", which is great since I have kidney stones. One stone will kill two birds. When I read some of the research, it sounds to me that phyllanthus acts on hbsag. Am I right?

I have scheduled a check in Jan, 2012 since my doctor doesn't have concerns with kidney problems. If tenofovir will bring my hbv dna (~40,000 copies/ml) to UND, I will start to add ntz. Hopefully the current pioneer of ntz will provide more conclusive data at that time (would be ~ 9 months).

Shellywinters: Please provide more details of the dosage of the tea. You have mentioned 2 tsp. Did you measure it with standard tsp or just regular 2 tea spoons. Did you drink two tsp for each drink or a whole day? I am curious whether the way of making the tea (~ 4 hrs) matters. When I check phyllanthus online, there are some capsules (~400mg), if they are raw and not extract, it would too little. Stefano: do you remember the dosage of the chinese trial you mentioned?

Stefano: I know that chinese herb medicine in China may have quality issues, but I think the most important is that most of chinese herb medicines are pre-processed with processes I am not familiar with. The processing may add toxic stuffs in.

[stef2011]

i dont remember your hbvdna.......ntz can lower 2-3 logs not more from our little experience, of course we have reached this at about 6 months, we don t know at one year, one thing is certain if there is no hbsg decrease by 3 months it doesn t work (on 2g ntz dose).
the trials we found by romark showed results hbsag/hbvdna neg at 1 year in hbe neg

[stef2011]

ntz is not active on hbvdna but on hbsag, you can get hbvdna und only when hbsag is complitley or almost complitely suppressed (it is just like in acute hbv), this might take even more than 1 year

the combo is because tenofovir makes hbvdna und in a couple of months and ntz keeps suppressing hbsag which cannot be suppressed by tenofovir

you might also try phyllanthus+ntz and see if there is any result on hbvdna, today i told me sister and she will try it 1-2 months before choosing tenofovir or interferon

showing 22% drug induced liver problems by herbs
that's the problem with the soruses there, i guess food.com is in US and should be reliable although herbs are taken from asia for sure.anyway if you check carefully all liver panel tests (all tests not just alt because there is toxic liver damage with normal alt)
of coruse all those like me with cirrhosis or severe f3 fibrosis must avoid herbs, it is too dangerous

[cam4930]

If there are data to rule out side effects, it is great. I plan to add ntz after hbv dna becomes und. I just don't feel comfortable to use another drug without my doctor's consent before hbv dna gets suppressed.

I just read an  article in chinese, showing 22% drug induced liver problems in China were caused by use of chinese herb medcines. So we should be very careful in using them.

[stef2011]

no body has taken the drugs for ~5 years

i have checked everything...aids patients has taken it continuatively for over 5 years without any sides, they can t clear infections by immune system so they had to take ntz continuatively.

selenium has had big trials on thousands of people, on the range 130-150 blood levels it boosts immune system on other ranges decreases it.it doesn t clear hbv but decreased liver cancer percentages

[shellywinters]

thats a good question "So you recommend taking 200mcg selenium daily but with the increased selenium intake do you think you are helping the virus to reproduce faster too? "

No, it acutallt takes the glutathione in your liver. Selenium is an antioxident and conversted into glutathione. Once delpeated, health declines...

Selenium. The protective role of selenium against HBV was reported in 1997 in the journal Biological Trace Element Research. The study reported that, in areas of China with high rates of hepatitis B and primary liver cancer, high levels of dietary selenium reduced the incidence of liver cancer and hepatitis B infection. In a 4-year trial of 130,471 people, those who were given selenium-spiked table salt showed a 35.1 percent reduction in primary liver cancer, compared with the group who received salt without selenium. In the same journal report, another clinical study of 226 people who tested positive for hepatitis B showed that taking a 200-mcg tablet a day of selenium reduced the incidence of primary liver cancer to zero. Upon cessation of selenium supplementation, the incidence of primary liver cancer began to rise. The study seems to indicate that taking selenium on a continuous basis is beneficial to people who have viral hepatitis (Yu SY et al 1997).
These human trials have been duplicated in animal studies. The animal studies showed that selenium supplementation reduced hepatitis B infection by 77.2 percent and precancerous liver lesions by 75.8 percent.
Another study in the Journal of Trace Elements and Medical Biology reported the role of trace minerals in diseases such as liver disease and hepatitis. The report indicates that, while there is still some debate regarding the specific role of trace minerals, minerals such as selenium and zinc are of benefit to those who have diseases such as hepatitis (Loguercio C et al 1997).
A 3-year study of 20,847 people investigated whether supplementation with sodium selenite could prevent hepatitis B. The researchers concluded that: "The incidence of virus hepatitis infection in the test population was significantly lower than that of controls provided with no selenium" (Yu SY et al 1989).

[cam4930]

>the only alternative i see is try nitazoxanide first for 6-12 months at 1,5 or 2g daily dose
>and see if it lowers hbsag and hbvdna, if you don t see any improvement add tenofovir

>at least nitazoxanide is not a one way and you can stop it plus it might eradicate hbsag

Two reasons I hesitate to start ntz right now:

1) no hbsag quantitative to baseline its effectiveness
2) use of ntz in hbv is still not very conclusive. e.g. side effects. Even though there is no side effects so far, but no body has taken the drugs for ~5 years. It is hard to compare side effects with anti-virals.

Since for over 20 yrs, my liver got very minimum damage, it could be two reasons: 1) most of the time hbv dna was UND and ALT normal, 2) I am not susceptible to liver damage (maybe by gene). This time hbv dna flares up, either a regular also happened in the past and not a big deal, or it is serious due to my age. Nobody knows what had happened in the past and what will happen in the future. So I have to live with statistics and the most current guidelines for the disease.

If ntz does eradicate hbv as future probably proves, I can always start later and get rid of hbsag. Then taking tdf is not a big deal except wasting some money (let along my insurance will get some of the bills) to buy insurance.

To shellywinters: thanks for your suggestions. If some of your recommendation are really useful (as controversies exist), I can take them in the same time after hbv dna UND as suggested by stefano. So I will not miss anything, but wasting some money probably not too much if the cure is working.

[shellywinters]

If it worked this good for me, maybe there is some one else out there it can work for, perhaps with my recommended method, frequency and strength it will work for others .

The results are dramatic! From Jan 09 to Mar 09 to go from over 10 Million down to 300 thousand viral load. What more proof do you need with a 97% reduction in VL?

If there is a possibility that something may work, but did not, I never felt like it was a waste even if I paid alot of money for it. I am not rich at all! Things that did not work I gladly scratched off the list knowing I did my best and tried.

What did not Work: Extra Virgin coconut oil. Too hard to eat as its gross to eat oil. Capsules are ok but I wanted quick results. There was no dramatic decrease in VL the time period I was taking this.

Inconclusive: Parasite cleans: I read that most people some form of parasite from Tape worms to small liver fluke parasites that are like virus factories. Eliminating viruses alone may reduce it from your body but not completely if you have parasites. Again human parasites are disgusting yes, but also common.

I did a cleanse taking Black Walnut, Wormwood and Clove nothing came reduction did happen but I was still taking the Chanca Piedra tea. I had a test the same week and made used the reccamended dosage for the 3 and there were no elevated liver ensyms.

Perhaps due to the liver protectant of the tea and Alpha Lipoic acid

I hear something on the fax machine....

[ono8ono]

"The virus uses the selenium mineral while in your liver to power its reproductive ability. "
So you recommend taking 200mcg selenium daily but with the increased selenium intake do you think you are helping the virus to reproduce faster too?

[shellywinters]

update, "I NEVER missed a dosage for those 1st 2 weeks"

meant months.

Nothing on the fax machine : (

I'll keep looking