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Importance of vitamin d levels to help control HBV replication
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Importance of vitamin d levels to help control HBV replication

Hepatology. 2013 May 22. doi: 10.1002/hep.26488. [Epub ahead of print]
Low vitamin D serum concentration is associated with high levels of hepatitis B virus (HBV) replication in chronically infected patients.
Farnik H, Bojunga J, Berger A, Allwinn R, Waidmann O, Kronenberger B, Keppler OT, Zeuzem S, Sarrazin C, Lange CM.
Source
Medizinische Klinik 1, Klinikum der Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universität Frankfurt, Theodor-Stern-Kai 7, Haus 11, 60590 Frankfurt, Germany.
Abstract
Vitamin D is an important immune modulator which plays an emerging role in inflammatory and metabolic liver diseases, including infection with hepatitis C virus (HCV). In contrast, the relationship between vitamin D metabolism and chronic hepatitis B is less well characterized. Therefore, we quantified 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D3 ] serum levels in a cohort of 203 treatment-naïve patients with chronic hepatitis B virus (HBV) infection and tested for their association with clinical parameters of chronic hepatitis B. 69 (34%), 95 (47%), and 39 (19%) out of 203 patients had severe vitamin D deficiency [25(OH)D3 <10ng/mL], vitamin D insufficiency [25(OH)D3 ≥10ng/mL and <20ng/mL], or adequate vitamin D serum levels [25(OH)D3 ≥20ng/mL], respectively. In both uni- and multivariate analyses, HBV DNA viral load (log10 IU/mL) was a strong predictor of low 25(OH)D3 serum levels (p=0.0007 and p=0.000048, respectively), and vice versa. Mean 25(OH)D3 serum concentrations in patients with HBV DNA <2000 IU/mL vs. ≥2000 IU/mL were 17 vs. 11 ng/mL, respectively (p<0.00001). In addition, hepatitis B early antigen (HBeAg) positive patients had lower 25(OH)D3 serum levels than HBeAg negative patients (p=0.0013). Finally, 25(OH)D3 and HBV DNA serum levels showed inverse seasonal fluctuations. Conclusions: Low 25(OH)D3 serum levels are associated with high levels of HBV replication in patients with chronic hepatitis B. This represents a major difference to chronic hepatitis C, were numerous previous studies have shown a lacking correlation between HCV viral load vitamin D serum levels. Inverse seasonal fluctuations of 25(OH)D3 and HBV DNA serum levels are suggestive for a functional relationship between both variables. (HEPATOLOGY 2013.).
Copyright © 2013 American Association for the Study of Liver Diseases.
50 Comments Post a Comment
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Avatar_m_tn
very good researh, me and my sister are using d3 10.000iu daily since 2010-11 to keep serum levels around 70ng/ml, do you think higher levels like 90-100ng/ml can be even better (if calcium remains normal)

in the flu and cancer prevention studies there has been improvment at the end of normal range like 80-100ng/ml and much less effect at lower levels, may this apply too to hbv
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Avatar_m_tn
There is no good answer to this question. It is possible that at the high end some negative effects become important. I don't think that an even stronger HBV suppressive effect will occur. Only carefully designed trials can answer these important issues.
Meanwhile staying in the 70 to 90 ng/ml range seems to be wise.
Regular testing is truly needed to determine a specific patients supplementary need to achieve this target range. It is a fact, that for many a daily dose of 10000 IU of d3 is needed to get to this level.

Sometimes you wonder how the Vikings could have been so healthy and strong and successful with their lousy vitamin d levels...
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Avatar_m_tn
Any suggestions on:
How quick do we accumulate Vit D in the body?
How much to take to get VitD level increased in the body?
If I take 10000IU a day shall I decrease the dose if I play tennis 1 hour under the sun?
I have read that 15 min of sun exposure equals 10000IU ....

Any comments would be welcomed.



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Avatar_m_tn
Sorry one more question.
I was taking 5000IU vit D daily for two month and 25(OH)D3 went up from 28 to just  31. BUT Calcium and Phosphorus in the blood came up a bit above the reference range. Do you think I should keep on 5000 IU?
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Avatar_m_tn
I have read that 15 min of sun exposure equals 10000IU ....

not for people with chronic diseases, that s only for healthy uninfected people.cancer, autism, cfs, lyme and many many others all have very low vit d levels, like in the study posted there s probably inverse correlation between disregulated immune system in chronic diseases and d levels
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Avatar_f_tn
i can say about myself- started from 12ng/ml in october 2012. started taking 10000 IU. tested again in april 2013. vit D level went up to 60ng/ml!!
my HBV DNA levels went down from 5000 to 270 in april(maybe vit D helped?!).i am not taking any medications.
you can use this site for more info:
http://www.grassrootshealth.net/
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Avatar_f_tn
a study from ISRAEL:
A new study has found that administering vitamin D to hepatitis C patients dramatically reduces the presence of the virus in the blood.

The study, carried out at Rebecca Sieff Hospital in Safed and Hillel Yaffeh Medical Center in Hadera by Dr. Assy Nimer and Dr. Saif Abu-Mouch covered 90 hepatitis C patients.

The findings were presented in late November at a conference of the American Association for the Study of Liver Diseases.

For six months, in addition to the standard treatment, which included Interferon once a week and a daily dose of the antiviral drug Ribavirin, 30 patients were also treated with 1,000 units of vitamin D a day. A control group of 60 patients went without the vitamin.

In order to assess the impact of vitamin D on the treatment of the disease, before starting the study, all patients, including those from the control group and those who were found to have a vitamin D deficiency, were given supplements, so that all participants began the study from the same point.

A month after the start of treatment, the virus had disappeared from the blood in 44 percent of the group receiving vitamin D supplements, as opposed to just 18 percent among the control group.

After three months, the success rate for the group getting the supplement rose to 96 percent, compared to 48 percent in the control group.

Other findings from the study, which will be presented next month in Kfar **** at a conference of the Israeli Association for the Study of the Liver, indicate that this trend continues even after the end of drug treatment.

The initial results show that six months after the end of treatment, 90 percent of patients treated with drug therapy and vitamin D supplements had the virus disappear and completely recovered.

"The drug treatment for hepatitis C patients is usually administered for around a year, and occasionally the virus disappears from the blood, but remains in other places, for example, in the liver and lymph glands," explained Nimer, the director of the Liver Disease Unit at Rebecca Sieff Hospital. "At the end of the treatment, the virus may return to the blood, but we found that in patients who were also given the vitamin D supplement, the virus did not return, that is, it was excreted by the body."

How vitamin D helps improve the condition of hepatitis patients is not entirely clear. However, according to Nimer, "It has already been proven that vitamin D benefits the immune system by increasing the activity of T cells [white blood cells that help in the fight against pathogens], improves the body's reaction to the insulin hormone, and reduces the level of pro-inflammatory proteins that cause liver infections caused by viruses."

The findings have important ramifications, mainly in light of the difficulty in effectively treating all patients with hepatitis C, a disease that has become the leading cause of cirrhosis of the liver and the need for liver transplants, and thereby the number one cause of liver cancer.

It is the only form of hepatitis for which no vaccine has been developed yet.

"The proteins surrounding the virus change constantly and it is difficult to create a vaccine against it," Nimer said.

There are some 300 people believed to be living in Israel with hepatitis C and receiving drug therapy. World Health Organization data indicates that this is an infectious disease with global reach: in the United States, 2 million-4 million patients are diagnosed annually, 5 million-15 million patients in Europe, and 12 million patients in India. Most of them are unaware they have been infected and are not receiving drug therapy, which increases the risk of a worsening of liver function.

There is also an incidence of disease in Japan, where some 350,000 new cases are diagnosed annually, and in Egypt, where 20 percent of blood donors are rejected as carriers of hepatitis C.

The virus is spread primarily by coming into contact with tainted blood, either through blood donation or unsterilized syringes, mainly among narcotics users.

The risk of being infected during unprotected sex is low - around 2-3 percent.

In recent years medical literature has highlighted vitamin D as effective in reducing the risk of various diseases, including infectious diseases, diabetes and even breast cancer, prostate cancer and colon cancer. It also increases the effectiveness of treatment for cancer patients.

An article published in 2006 suggested the possibility that a vitamin D deficiency during the sunless days of winter is the cause of flu outbreaks and increases the risk of respiratory illness in children, even though articles published later countered those findings.

Let the sunshine in

Vitamin D is absorbed from the sun's rays, but according to recently conducted studies over the past few years, even in sunny Israel, a substantial part of the population suffers from a Vitamin D deficiency.

A survey conducted at Rambam Medical Center in Haifa found that there is a severe shortage of vitamin D in the ultra-Orthodox community due to their modest dress, which shields most of the body from the sun's rays.

A survey conducted a year and a half ago at the Kupat Holim Meuhedet health maintenance organization, which checked vitamin levels in the blood in children up to the age of 19, found an average level of 22 nanograms per milliliter of vitamin D. This amount is only two-thirds of the recommended level (32 units).

In the ultra-Orthodox Kiryat Sanz neighborhood in Netanya, an especially severe shortage was found, with an average of 18.5 units. However even in the Jerusalem neighborhood of Baka, which is partially secular, the average level measured was still only 29 units.

About two years ago, Prof. Sophia Ish-Shalom of Rambam found that young high-tech workers also have a vitamin D deficiency, due to the many hours spent working in offices during daylight hours.

Around 5-10 percent of vitamin D levels are obtained from foods, especially salmon, sardines, mackerel, cod, tuna and egg yolks. Vitamin D levels are measured in international units.

At the U.S. National Academy of Science's National Institute of Health, the recommended daily consumption is 200 units of vitamin D up until age 40, 500 units from age 51-70 and 600 units from age 71 on.

Many experts argue that the recommendations are too low, and the issue is under discussion in professional medical associations in the West.

In recent months, the Health Ministry has begun promoting a plan to increase vitamin D levels among Israelis, by enriching milk drinks, approving the import of nutritional supplements that contain vitamin D in higher doses and increasing awareness of the importance of the vitamin among pregnant women and among children, among other tactics.

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Avatar_m_tn
Thank you for the info!

Did you test calcium and Phosphorus?
Do you keep taking 10000 iu or you decreased the dose?
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Avatar_m_tn
Do you know your hbsag level? Hbe negative?
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Avatar_f_tn
Did you test calcium and Phosphorus?
NO

Do you keep taking 10000 iu or you decreased the dose?
reduced it to 4000 iu


Do you know your hbsag level?
no, unfortunetly the test is not performed in ISRAEL. i even tried to offer paying for the test in some of the best labs but no one agreed.

Hbe negative?
HBE Antigen - negative
ANTI HBE- positive

did make a lot of changes in my diet- no dairy! less meet/fish, started taking recently on a daily basis:
dandelion
artichoke
Glycyrrhiza glabra

thinking about adding - chanca piedra...

I definetly feel better
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Avatar_m_tn
Any antiviral treatment? Or just supplements and lifestyle changes.

Just bought some chanca piedra from Ebay in USA.
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Avatar_f_tn
no antiviral treatment!
just supplements and lifestyle changes.
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for sharing your experience.

I would add some protein say whey protein to your diet, because you seem to be low  in proteins  but we do need to be slightly protein positive.

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Avatar_m_tn
Well guys amen to this. We are already doing clinical studies here. I too feel better after taking 10000 units of vit d3 daily. But I have only reached 50ng/ml on it. I am thinking going to 20k daily. But my calcium is yes at upper limits. I was told to take Vitamin K and more magnesium to lower calcium levels.

But from reading these articles. Here is the point again. Immune system is key. But big pharma is nit addressing this. They give us nucs that damage it over the long term of taking - years i mean that is.
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Avatar_m_tn
Vitamin D causes the serum creatinine to go up probably by competitive excretion.  So if you guys are taking big doses, better to stop the VitaminD for two weeks or one month before measuring serum creatinine.  Otherwise you may get a shock.  It is not causing damage but just an effect of the drug.  That is while sunshine is better.  Sunshine does not cause this side effect.  


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Avatar_m_tn
To those that take 10,000 iu Vit D3 daily, any sides?

Also, veteranB, is your HBV DNA UND? HBEAG + or -?
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Avatar_m_tn
Another thing, is it not high vitamin D dose bad for the liver? Thx.
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Avatar_m_tn
RESEARCHERS FIND LINK BETWEEN LOW VITAMIN D, HEPATITIS B
1 hour ago

http://www.foodproductdesign.com/news/2013/06/researchers-find-link-between-low-vitamin-d-hepat.aspx


Vitamin D Deficiency May Help Spread Of Hepatitis B Throughout Liver
June 6, 2013

http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/1112866582/vitamin-d-deficiency-may-help-spread-of-hepatitis-b-throughout-liver/
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Avatar_m_tn
definitely no effect on creatinine whatsoever, was it a real human study with a lot of patients peer reviwed or the usual drug makers spam over vit d use?
because there are tones of spam article on vit d use and sun exposure......

1hr sun makes 20.000iu of d3, a big dose is 100.000 to 600.000iu and it is given by injection twice a year to make normal vit levels and creatinine stays the same also on these doses

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Avatar_m_tn
the thousands of human studies on thousands of people done on vitamin d are on this website:

http://www.vitamindwiki.com/VitaminDWiki
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Avatar_m_tn
http://www.vitamindwiki.com/Many+hints+that+vitamin+D+megadoses+cure+some+diseases

Many hints that vitamin D megadoses cure some diseases
toxic dose 1.000.000 iu
There have been several indications that getting lots of vitamin D (> 20,000 IU daily) can cure some diseases
Appears that Vitamin D can induce remission in recent Multiple Sclerosis 1,000 patients 20,000 IU to 140,000 IU daily
Dr. Cannell on Autism – Spring 2013 3 moms accidentally gave 60,000 IU daily - rapid recovery from Autism
ovarian cancer had metastasized, give only months to live, internal bleeding 50,000 IU daily for 3 months
Totally cured, then dropped back to 50,000 IU weekly.
Traumatic Brain Injury reduced 2X by about 20,000 IU of vitamin D daily for 5 days
with progestrone. Similar to a loading dose
Lots of Vitamin D3 might repair spinal cord – rat experiment, June 2013 35,000 IU for average weight adult

damn we need a human study on the effect of vitd megadoses like for this causal reports in that page i linked:
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Avatar_m_tn

keeping high vit a (betacarotene is the safe type of vit a) and vit k may avoid sides from the super high vit d megadoses at 50.000-100.000 iu daily but i dont see human studies on this with results just animal studies
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Avatar_m_tn
http://www.vitamindwiki.com/Vitamin+D+can+inhibit+enveloped+virus+%E2%80%93+March+2011

Vitamin D can inhibit enveloped virus – March 2011

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Avatar_f_tn
thanks rome,
I do make sure to eat enough protein - beens(all kinds encluding soy), nuts(Almonds!!), eggs...
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Avatar_m_tn

no vit d is like breathing, "a must", for all hbvers included those on end stage cirrhosis:
Association of extremely low vitamin D levels with increased mortality in patients with advanced

Congress Abstract
Z Gastroenterol 2013; 51 - P_3_10; DOI: 10.1055/s-0032-1332005
F Grünhage 1, M Krawczyk 1, C Stokes 1, M Langhirt 1, C Reichel 2, F Lammert 1
1 Saarland University Hospital, Medical Department II, Homburg, Germany
2 Rehabilitation Centre Bad Brückenau, Clinic Hartwald, Bad Brückenau, Germany

Aims: Patients with advanced liver disease frequently suffer from vitamin D deficiency. Vitamin D serves an important role in regulating immune response mechanisms, and vitamin D deficiency has been associated with unfavourable outcomes in patients infected with chronic hepatitis C. However, it remains unknown whether vitamin D deficiency has an influence on mortality in these patients. Thus, we prospectively studied a cohort of patients with advanced liver disease to assess the influence of vitamin D deficiency on survival.

Patients and Methods: Sixty-one patients with liver cirrhosis (mean age, 55 years; range, 19-76 years; 66% males; CTP stage C, 41%) were included in our prospective single-center survival study. Serum vitamin D levels were determined in all patients using a chemiluminescence immunoassay. AUC analysis, Chi-square statistics and multivariate logistic regression analysis were used to determine the optimal cut-off for the discrimination of survivors from non-survivors. As we had shown previously sTNF-R75 serum levels were also associated with mortality in this cohort. Thus we also tested whether vitamin D levels in combination with higher sTNF-R55 or sTNF-R75 serum levels determine a higher risk of death.

Results: Median vitamin D levels were 8.2ng/ml (range <4ng/ml -95.8ng/ml). Overall, 51% of patients (31/61) died during a minimal follow-up of 24 months. AUC analysis determined a vitamin D level of 6ng/ml as optimal cut-off for discriminating survivors from non-survivors. Kaplan-Meier analysis of survival confirmed low vitamin D levels as a significant predictor of death (p=0.004).

Of note, multivariate analysis identified low vitamin D levels (OR=6.3; CI: 1.2-31.2; p=0.024) and MELD scores (OR=1.4; CI: 1.2-1.7; p6ng/ml (20%).

No correlation of vitamin D levels with sTNF-R75 or sTNF-R55 levels was detected in our cohort. Furthermore we did not see a higher mortality of patients with higher sTNF-R and low vitamin D levels.

Conclusion: Extremely low serum levels of vitamin D levels are associated with increased mortality in patients with advanced liver disease. Infectious complications are more frequent in these patients. We speculate that an impaired immune function due to vitamin D deficiency may explain this observation. Further studies in larger cohorts are warranted to replicate this finding.
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Avatar_m_tn

as regards impaired immune function on cirrhosis, since i had it and resolved it, it is due to nagalase, i did not resolved immune system disfunction by making vit d levels normal the only thing to resolve it was to make nagalase lower and this is also logic vitamin d can t activate immune cells with high nagalase because it blocks the immune cells receptors of vit d
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Avatar_m_tn

intersting article about vit d and vitamin k2, only this type of k2: MK-7 (Vitamin K2 as Menaquinone-7 from Natto Extract).looks like some research is proving vit d toxicity is due to k2 deficency but anyway it makes sense to combo d3 and k2 together especially for the prevention effect of both d3 and k2 (mk7 from natto) on liver cancer

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/03/26/the-delicate-dance-between-vitamins-d-and-k.aspx
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Avatar_m_tn
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/12/16/vitamin-k2.aspx

IMPORTANT: If You Take Vitamin D, You Need K2

This is a really crucial point: If you opt for oral vitamin D, you need to also consume in your food or take supplemental vitamin K2.

"There are so many people on the vitamin-D-mega-dose bandwagon, taking more and more of vitamin D. And it could absolutely be causing harm if you are lacking the K2 to complete the job to get the calcium where it's supposed to be," Rheaume-Bleue warns.

"We don't see symptoms of vitamin D toxicity very often. But when we do, those symptoms are inappropriate calcification. That's the symptom of vitamin D toxicity. And it is actually a lack of vitamin K2 that can cause that..."

While the ideal or optimal ratios between vitamin D and vitamin K2 have yet to be elucidated, Rheume-Bleue suggests about 150-200 micrograms of K2 will meet the need for the "average" healthy person.

The latest vitamin D dosing recommendations, which call for about 8,000 IU's of vitamin D3 per day if you're an adult, means you'd need in the neighborhood of 800 to 1,000 micrograms (0.8 to 1 milligram/mg) of vitamin K2, but the jury is still out.

"My earlier recommendation was not taking into account people who were doing high dose of vitamin D supplementation," Rheaume-Bleue says. "That's where it gets a little bit more technical. It seems that for the average person, around 200 to 280 micrograms will activate your K2 proteins and do a lot of good for your bones and your heart. If you're taking high levels of vitamin D... then I would recommend taking more K2."

The good news is that vitamin K2 has no toxicity. No toxic effects have ever been demonstrated in the medical literature.

"The reason why K2 doesn't have potential toxic effect is that all vitamin K2 does is activate K2 proteins. It will activate all the K2 proteins it finds. And if they're all activated and you take extra K2, it simply won't do that. That's why we don't see a potential for toxicity the way we do with vitamin A or D," she says.
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Avatar_m_tn
I see then I need to take more vitamin K. My calcium is maxed out.
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Avatar_m_tn
Low 25(OH)D3 serum levels n relation with HBV is a cause or a result ?

Active HBV is becuse we have low vit D or we have low vit D because we have HBV?
Do you know any  study that rellate the suplimantary vit D with HBV ?
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Avatar_m_tn
i think low vit d is due to immune system mulfunction since all chronic diseases from all virus infections to cancers have low vit d and all improve increasing vit d

all viruses use ways to suppress immune function otherwise they cannot stay in our bodies (same thing cancer cells) and all target vitamin d...maybe the whole thing is about nagalase, vit d, vdr, gcmaf and immune system activation because all chronic diseases have low vit d, abnormal nagalase and deficent immune activation
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Avatar_m_tn
besides gcmaf, what we can take to reduce nagalase levels?
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Avatar_m_tn
what is nagalase levels ,how to measure them  and its importance in hvb? have research seen anybody cured from vit d suupliments?
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Avatar_m_tn
how would be it ? if we all members do a survey within ourselves about vit d levels and ours hbvdna or hbsag ,before and after vit d suppliments. that would be nice to give a hint about "vit d effect",may be a seperate post.
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Avatar_m_tn
nagalase can be decreased by probiotic gcmaf or injectable gcmaf only or removing the source of it
nagalase is produced naturally only by pregnant women to avoid fetus rejection and by our healthy bacteria in the gut (but at very low levels less than 0.6nmol/mg) to escape our immune system detection

clearing nagalase from our blood means improved immune function but not hbv clearance and also nagalase levels in blood are much less than levels in the liver for sure
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Avatar_m_tn
nagalase is produced naturally

used wrong words, it is all produced naturally both from viruses, bacteria or cancer cells.....what i meant is nagalase is not pathological when produced at low levels by gut healthy bacteria or in pregnancy
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Avatar_m_tn
"Low 25(OH)D3 serum levels n relation with HBV is a cause or a result ? "
You put up interesting topic. I think that  vit d3 deficiency is a result and not a cause, because there was a number of studies about how people become chronic and it is clear that lacking of vit d3 would have been easily spotted but it was not.

I also did not see any study that proves that Vit D3 supplementation has any direct effect on HBV, but d3 defficiency is certainly not good for immune system in general so probably supplementing Vit D3 improves general health and therefore has indirect effect on hbv too.
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Avatar_m_tn
Look at hiv data. As soon as they start taking high doses of vitamin d and c their viral load falls. It is known. Good doctors will tell you off the record. That oh well high doses of vitamin d are good for you. Search youtube also there is a good info.
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Avatar_m_tn

the link is pretty simple by this study:
http://www.natureandhealth.com.au/news/vitamin-d-virus-killer

vitamin d influences trl7 which is the receptor to detect ssrna of hbv virus in infected cells, so increasing vit d we increase trl7 receptor activation and clearance of more hbv

i think this is the major key of vit d being against hbv
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Avatar_m_tn
www.vitamindwiki.com/dl1166

Vitamin D and the Immune System
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Avatar_m_tn
Then maybe taking gs9620 with high doses can help us clear this?

Should we try taking 50000 units daily and see what happens?
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Avatar_m_tn
What do you think of beta glucans?
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Avatar_m_tn
Hi Stef,

Please suggest me the best Vitamin D suppliment . what about taking gs9620  ?

Thanks
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Avatar_m_tn
any vit d3 is ok if pills are in liquid olis for absorption, the dose must be adjusted according to your response and vit k2 is absolutely needed to fix calcium in the bones and not keep it in tissues/blood

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Avatar_m_tn
i dont think it is safe to take so much d3 if levels are high already like 70-80ng/ml and without vit k2, such experiments must be done under the supervision of expert doctors and checking closely vitd25oh and calcium in tissues by tomography

i also dont think we can clear hbv by simply making vitd25oh over 100ng/ml even acute hbv takes 6-12 months to clear hbsag so it is going to be a slow and long process and keeping so high vit d for long times might be dangerous for tissue calcification
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Avatar_m_tn
So how do cancer patients do it? As you said some take very high doses.
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Avatar_m_tn
everybody takes the doses to make levels high end of normal 90-100ng/ml, not 50.000iu when levels are already at 70ng/ml plus everybody taking it has usually levels around 10-15ng/ml

at baseline 10ng/ml a dose 50.000iu or higher weekly is a must but not when baseline vitd25oh is high
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Avatar_m_tn
if vitamindwiki is recommending 10.000 IU for healthy people, then why are you sticking with 10.000 IU?

I felt better on 20.000 IU.  It's twice as much, and no sides so far.  I take heptech, but don't supplement K2M7 or anything else.
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Avatar_m_tn
20.000iu can still be ok if vitd25oh less than 100ng/ml but not 50.000iu daily

be aware that tissue calcification can happen even with normal calcium if vit k2 deficent, some pains in the back close to kidneys area are gone as soon as started k2, so it is possible i was k2 deficent
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Avatar_m_tn
I still think guys we need to try to use 50.000 units daily what cancer patients do to see the effect. Just up the vitamin k2 intake.
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