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Positive test how?

I am a white male, 62.  I have donated blood, many gallons, since being an adult.  Donation in March, 2003 was okay.  After donating in Sept, 2003, I was notified by the Red Cross that I was positive for Hepatitis B Surface Antigen, negative for antibodies (IgG, IgM).  Retest with local family doctor using local hospital lab showed  
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Avatar universal
they are beginning to find that the high fat/high cholesterol diets are not leading to heart disease...dietary cholesterol has no bearing on cholesterol levels...studies on eskimos and whatnot...plus analyzing the results of atkin's adherents..basically if you are not getting enough dietary cholesterol(the source for our hormones)hten the liver has to manufacture it..I'm not really well versed enough on how to explain all this scientifically,but I'm a 20 year veteran of bodybuilding and I read extensively about health and fitness issues..point I'm making is those old studies are being found false..just now is the medical community catching up with the bodybuilders and atkins...they have been pushing low fat on the population for alomost 20 years,while the nation gets fatter...low high glycemic carbs(i.e. no breads and pastas,sugar etc.)...may here can benefit form becoming more nutritionally educated...a good clean diet can help tremendously towards helping the liver cope
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Avatar universal
Galen and willing,

Since when does an "old" study becomes a no-good study?  

For example, studies that shown that high fat/high cholestorol diets lead to heart disease have been out for ages, does that make these study no good?  

Your assumption about "old" data/studies is unbelievable/no-good is a complete non-sense.

If you have issues with this study, I would highly recommend you contact the author and dispute it with him.  I'm just the messenger.

BTW, the study at:
http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2003icr/03_assld/docs/1029/102903_n.html

that you pointed out is flawed since the people in this study used condoms.  Anybody with half a brain would know that using comdoms would bring HCV transmission rate way down.

Nice try, and do put that condom back on.
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Avatar universal
Your cranky!. I've been with my wife for 19 yrs and she's hep c free. Anecdotally, I don't believe the veritable sexual transmiission rates you suggest occur, are what I see of people in Hep c support groups. There is denial about hep c right now, but it isn't occuring amonst the the people who are treating themselves and participating in support groups such as ours. Rather the denial seems to be societal, as we are responding less quickly to this epidemic then we are capable of.
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Avatar universal
Where do these guys come from? Mike
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Avatar universal
Nice try.  Go back and reread your studies carefully and my studies carefully.  Both of your studies DID NOT stated HOW HIGH the viral loads were in the patients studied, or HOW LONG they have been together.  There are absolutely nothing in your studies that disprove the findings in the study at:

http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2003icr/38easl/docs/c_033103b.html

that cleary shows:

If your viral load is high, transmission rate can be as high as 33%.  

It also can be seen as even HIGHER than 33% since this study also clearly stated that (in the study's conclusion):

"...They may transmit the infection to their wives and the risk of transmission increases proportionately with duration of marriage."

which implies that if they (high viral load husband couple) stay together long enough and have enough sex, the infection rate can theorethically approaches 100%.

Even if your viral load is low and you did not infect someone with your semen, there's no guarantee your viral load will stay low and you could be infecting someone if and when your VR goes up.

There's often the tendency to dismiss something when it's not "100% American," particularly when it is bad health news, but last I checked, sexual intercourse is sexual intercourse, Eqyptian or not!  

The author of the study at:

http://www.geocities.com/darmorr/sporadic.html

has very carefully researched and documented his sources in the bibliography (near the end of the write-up).  His study just address transmission routes and rates, and doesn't address PCR issues, so your comment on the PCR thing is irrelevant.  Is this study "dubious" because it is bad news?  What would it have been more credible had it been good news?  This is a sign of denial.

Again, there's a tendency for Americans HCV patients to reject any bad HCV news if they did not come from a 100% American source.  

I don't want to go back and forth about this and this will be my last posting on this.  I have been readings the many postings here and clearly, HCV patients tend to be in denial everything about this deadly disease.
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Avatar universal
well, I hope we're not  in too much denial. The two studies you cite  get at a question that routinely comes up on this forum : can exchange of non-blood body fluids serve as a means of transmission? There is still-preliminary but growing evidence that semen, vaginal secretions, sweat glands, tear fluid, saliva, etc. of HCV-infected individuals can carry the virus (see for example <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1331308&dopt=Abstract">Liou et al</a>, <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11849681&dopt=Abstract">Hermida et al</a>, <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9139089&dopt=Abstract">Mendel et al</a>, <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12355384&dopt=Abstract">Manavi et al</a>). Whether or not exchange of infected body fluids can serve as a means of transmission is not yet known - the prevailing view is that if it can, it occurs at a low rate. Sexual transmission has been studied the most and, as shown in table 2 of the above review, a range of results has been reported. The more thorough studies of sexual transmission have (1) focused on long-term monogamous couples, (2) tried to exclude other means of transmission and (3) measured the concordance of genotype in the infected couple. PCR-based amplification is  a fundamental step in quantitation and genotyping and was still being introduced in '92 (<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1328502&dopt=Abstract">see</a>).


HCV research is a very international field - however the distribution of HCV genotypes is not homogenous in different parts of the world. Different genotypes and subtypes have different propensities for infecting different types of cells - so infection/transmission statistics for Egypt may not be the same as for the US or for the far East (table 2 again). However, estimates of 33% or 58% are pretty far out there, regardless of country.
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Avatar universal
Again, your first study refers to an extremely small number of patients in Egypt and the second has really old info.
From the same site as your first reference with a much larger group:
http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2003icr/03_assld/docs/1029/102903_n.html
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Avatar universal
who are you whoohoo?  RELAX-- have a good week everybody
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Avatar universal
the "3% or less" statistic for sexual transmission among hetero/mongamous couples in the US is pretty well established. See for example tables 2 and 3 in the following <a href="http://hepatology2.aasldjournals.org/scripts/om.dll/serve?action=searchDB&searchDBfor=art&artType=fullfree&id=ajhep0360s99">review</a> as well as the following <a href="http://www.abstractsonline.com/viewer/viewAbstract.asp?CKey={8A9BE6CF-5AB9-4BB5-B491-E6427FB44C98}&MKey={201E3AB1-B366-4CFC-879B-196DF41D3A21}&AKey={704CF973-D8A8-4909-A16B-9F7D9FB76BC7}&SKey={40DB160D-F5D2-4E3B-98BC-B8D1D3A7302C}">abstract</a> from last week's assld which presented the results of the US HCV-Partners Study.

The Egyptian study you cited is (1)very small (2) makes no attempt at analyzing non-sexual  sources of transmission. The fact that 3 of the 10 men in whom hcv was detectable in semen had hcv-infected wives doesn't shed very much light on semen as the route of transmission. The  studies in the above links have taken additional steps to establish an explicit sexual transmission (concordant genotypes, sequencing, exclusion of non-monogamous and IDU couples) and therefore have more credibility.
Also note the following quote "THe Centers for Disease Control and Prevention does <em>not</em> recommend changing sexual practices (ie using condoms) to prevent transmission if one member of a monogamous couple has HCV infection" (<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12746366&dopt=Abstract">from</a>, my emphasis).
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Avatar universal
Galen,

Can you point me to what specific studies you're talking about?  If you can back it up, then I'll believe you.  Otherwise, stop spreading rumours.

Also, the 3% sexual transmission rate for HCV is a myth that was not supported by any specific studies.  HCV patients in denial who like to have sex likes to use this number to falsely allays fear of HCV.  Here's is a study from just earlier this year (03/2003) from th 38th Annual Meeting of the European Association of the Study of the Liver (EASL)

http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2003icr/38easl/docs/c_033103b.html

That shows a whopping rate of 33% (3 out of 10) sexual transmission rate for HCV from husbands to wives.  

Also note the reference to high viral load in serum = detectable HCV in semen - support my assertion that infection rate is linked to viral load, and it is NOT blood-to-blood only transmission.

Yep,
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Avatar universal
I'm sorry about the blotches, I can't believe how many different sides there are to this stuff. Personally, I could use one of those old fashion contraptions from the dungeons of an old horror movie. Excuse my rain fog, I mean brain fog .You know, the ones that they put you on and stretch you out. I feel like my head is compressed to my shoulders with pain going through my shoulders all the way to my right hand. The "rack", that's what it is.  I could use a good stretching right now. Anyway hang in there.
                              We have dragons to fell. berlynn
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29084 tn?1283656040
Hi everyone I'm on week #13 of my pegasys + Riba combo Tx & I'm noticing my skin is very blotchy looking lately, I mean I look quite sick.... I'm as pale as ever which I suppose is the aneamic aspect of Tx... its mainly my chest, belly & back I've noticed the most but also I have these kind of like freckles on the top of my feet, I tell you it looks like I have tea leaves on my feet haha funny hey! not as dark though I didn't have them before Tx ... Anyone have this blotchy looking skin, sure I am itchy too, dry skin is a bugger of a thing. I drink like crazy I've even grown gills hahaha .... I put baby oil on sometimes, I guess its just something we must have if want to get rid of the dragon.... Thanks everyone, great site for us Heppers to cruise through</font>
<br><hr><P><marquee behavior="alternate"><Font face="Comic Sans MS"size=+3<b>Steve</b></font></marquee><br>
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Avatar universal
I can't believe you are on week 10 already! I also had horrible skin right through treatment; my elbows were particularly scaly, I had rahes on my shins and a red blotch on my forehead. The good news is that all these side effects disappeared within two weeks of finishing. As for the water, I am a teacher and had to take a little bottle into class with me, which I would fill up about 6 times a day. I would often have to leave the classroom in the middle of the lesson for a quick pee!
How are your ALT/AST? Have they dropped down to normal?
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Avatar universal
sorry, I didn't see your last post before replying. IMHO, the last link you cited is also of dubious credibility (1) is it from a peer-reviwed publication? (2) the 4 studies it cites in support of its sexual transmission statistics all date back to 1993 or earlier. This is pretty far back as far as HCV research goes - reliable PCR quantification was not commonly available then.
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Avatar universal
testing positive for the virus's coat protein (HBsAg) and negative for any antibodies to the virus is consistent with the early stages of infection. See, for example, the first line on page 7 of the following interpretation <a href="http://www.dhss.state.mo.us/Publications/CDManual/CDsec21.pdf">guidelines</a>.

See also figures 1 and 2 from the following diagnostics <a href="http://www.dpcweb.com/medical/infectiousdisease/hepatitus_b_int.html">summary</a>. As shown, in the first couple of months of infection, the virus can be detected but your body has not yet started making anti-bodies. You might want to have one more set of tests done before your December appt. If you are infected, antibodies should start to be detectable.

Sorry I don't have any suggestions about the means of transmission, but until all this is resolved you should consider yourself infectious (see CDC's HBV  <a href=http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/hepatitis/b/">page</a>
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Avatar universal
Hi Steve, I am week 10 Pegasys and I can totally relate to what you are saying. My skin is so dry I feel like a lizard! I am also blotchy on my thighs, hips, ass cheeks( excuse me!) calves, shins, back of my neck etc etc etc. My whole day is spent drinking water and peeing! I try to take care of my skin but suffer from a huge lack of motivation alot of the time. Best wishes, Joanna.
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29084 tn?1283656040
Thank you for your reply fellow heppers i had to laugh at your analogy of us feeling like a "Lizard" because thats suits perfectly with me... I drink & pee like crazy also hahaha ... BTW my last platelets test is 247 but that was 4 weeks ago I'm due to see the team soon, he is in Boston right now at a mega Hep-C convention ... Thanks all & lets kick this other <b>Lizards</b> Butt ..</font>
<br><hr><P><marquee direction="right"><Font face="Brush Script MT"size=+3<b>Steve'o</b></font></marquee><br>
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Avatar universal
From studies I have read, hep b is far easier to spread because it can be transmitted through saliva and any other mucus secretions of the body.  Hep C is blood to blood and while the medical community thinks that sexual transmission is at less than 3%, this is a common way to transmit HepB.  Yes, there is a vaccine for B now and Farmerjohn's wife and family should get it.  Sorry I forgot to advise him about that.
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Avatar universal
I wonder how your platelet count is? Our hep advocate has advised my husband to keep a careful eye on the top of his feet for spots that look like blue ink spots. If this is what you are seeing, it is not a good sign. Better call your doc. Good luck
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Avatar universal
slap that condom back on and practice safe-sex.  

And just becaus someone who haven't transmitted HCV to his or her partner yet, doesn't means that that person won't do it in the future since HCV viral load goes flunctuate up and down.
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Avatar universal
Here's another article that disprove the myth that HCV is largely a blood-to-blood transmitted pathogen and the 3% sexual transmission rate myth.

http://www.geocities.com/darmorr/sporadic.html

Of important to note:

"Although infection rates as high as 58% of the wives of anti-HCV husbands and 44% of the husbands of anti-HCV wives have been reported, an average of nine recent studies would put the spouse- to- spouse infection rate at 20.%%. Certain studies have found that female- to- male transmission was more important and others have found the reverse. However, it is clear that sexual transmission is an important vector of sporadic transmission of hepatitis C between the sexes.."

Note:  This means that the spouse-to-spouse infection rate of HCV CAN BE as high as 58%!!


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Avatar universal
Actually, infectiousness is based on viral load.  For example, someone with high HCV viral load would be more infectious than someone with low HBV viral load, and vice versa.  All of the many long-term couples that I personally know whom 1 is HBV+ and have never pass it to the other one.  

The transmission routes for both HCV and HBV are the same.  Personally, I would be much more concern with HCV since there's not vaccine for this deadly disease.  
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Avatar universal

Hep B is far more infectious than C, which is what the vast majority of us here have or had.  While HCV is passed from blood to blood and is rarely  from sexual contact, HBV can be spread from kissing, sex, or contact with any bodily fluid.
That you have never had tesed positive before does not necessarily mean you did not have it and you should contact the blood collection site immediately so that they can recheck their screen process.  The Red Cross, afer 9/11 was VERY diligent and there are many who were found to be infected with hepatitis and other diseases after donated blood then.
Persons who have hepatitis B surface antigen (HBsAg) present in the blood are either carriers of HBV or have active infection with the virus. Persons who have recovered from HBV (that is, have cleared the virus from their bodies) and persons who have had the HBV vaccine will have hepatitis B surface antibody (HBsAb) present in the blood. In other words, in the case of HBV, having the antibody present means that the person is immune to HBV infection, either from having had it in the past or from having had the vaccine.
All that said, you should be retested to make sure that the first one wasn't a false positive.
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