Hepatitis B Community
how to interpretate red labs vdr
About This Community:

This forum is an un-mediated, patient-to-patient forum for questions and support regarding Hepatitis B. Topics in this forum include but are not limited to, Causes, Diagnosis, Family and Relationships, Living With Hepatitis B, Research Updates, Treatment, Success Stories, Support, Symptoms.

Font Size:
A
A
A
Background:
Blank
Blank
Blank
Blank Blank

how to interpretate red labs vdr

hello,

does anybody know how to interpretate the vdr test from redlabs? I´ve searched it a lot yesterday and I have found differente interpretations. If anyone knows it please send me some trustable link the confirms it. (the links I found are from discussion forums)

by the way I´ve just got mine, wich is
ff/Bb (some site says ff are for bad responder, and some say it is for high responder, Bb means moderate responder according to all sites I read)
and when I made the blood extraction they were very clear that they don´t do the test interpretation.

thanks and regards
Related Discussions
33 Comments Post a Comment
Blank
Avatar_m_tn

ff/Bb is among the weak ones:
ff    is no response
Bb is medium response

good vit D 25oh over 50ng/ml are better prior and during gcmaf.here you can see a very small sample of responders/non responder on hiv gcmaf trial, page 13:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_yFgxI8KNcRNWQzYzRkZTYtMjViNy00ZDg4LWFiOWItMjE3Y2M4NDc2N2Rl&hl=en_US

your vdr had some response as increase of monocities, download the document because opening from google some part of the scales are missing

i do suggest to wait for the very cheap probiotic fomulation of gcmaf to be available (in italy/europe by septemeber probably) because it is very cheap and looks much more potent
it also uses the same natural path of gcmaf when it goes from mother to baby by colostrum milk, this is the way the baby immune system gets activated (fetus are full of nagalase to avoid to be destroied by the mother's immune system), this is probably why this is more potent
Blank
Avatar_m_tn

did you also check nagalase level?
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
hey stef, thanks!

I did the nagalase test, I´m still waiting for it.
Also did other tests this week, it turned out:
25 OH Vitamin D - 20ng/mL
ALT 43 (april 2011 74/oct 2010 328)
AST 26 (april 2011 41/oct 2010 142)
HBSAG over 250.000
Anti HBS 49.3 UI (may 2011 71.8  /oct 2010 34 /sept 2010 0,09)

I´ve never taken any anti viral, all I did was cutting the alcohol, and low fat diet with lot of anti-oxidants such as blueberries, black rice, red grape and curcuma. I´ve always had low cholesterol.
I still don´t know what to do but I´m really considering take that probiotic formulation.
Does this fall in alt and ast levels mean any thing?

thanks
Blank
Avatar_m_tn

I did the nagalase test, I´m still waiting for it.

i got blood drawn yesterday, did they tell you how long for results?

25 OH Vitamin D - 20ng/mL
severely deficent, you need at least 10000iu vit d3 everyday and then recheck in 2 months if you reach values closer to 80-100ng/ml

Does this fall in alt and ast levels mean any thing?
quite bad if hbsag is so high, it means your immune system can t see the virus but this is for all hbv cronic (chronic) carriers and for all cronic (chronic) infections....nagalase is the common thing on all these viral disease where immune system doesn t see the enemy

HBSAG over 250.000
Anti HBS 49.3 UI
this means you have a mutated hbsag, is 250.000iu/ml?

anyway if we reactivate immune system by getting nagalase to normal healthy levels any mutant should be detected and cleared.if this happened with hiv and cancers why shouldn t happen on hbv...we will see
Blank
Avatar_m_tn

what about hbvdna pcr?

if we have a fall in alt/ast but a fall also in hbsag and hbvdna the immune system is clearing.we need hbsag and hbvdna readings to confirm if this is happening or if hbsag is just steady
Blank
Avatar_m_tn

good news for bad vdr receptors, look at the post below but as a general thing increased levels of vitamin d 25oh in serum can help and There is literature that suggests that carnosic acid can increases the expression of vitamin D receptors.

Yasko for bypassing VDR ?

In answer to your question about vitamin D...the VDR mutation that we are looking at results in a protein that is less active. To put this in terms that may be visually helpful for others reading this post...When we think about receptors, one way to look at them is like fishing poles on the surface of your cells. In the case of the VDR, it is a fishing pole that is specific for "catching" vitamin D. While the VDR can react and respond to hormones, if the protein itself is not as active and appears to be not as effective in its activity. This would fit with what you describe in terms of finding higher levels vitamin D in the blood after loading. If the VDR is less effective in pulling that added vitamin D into the cells then it would allow the concentration to remain higher in the medium outside the cell.

There is literature that suggests that carnosic acid can increases the expression of vitamin D receptors. So, even if the fishing poles on your cells are not as efficient at catching vitamin D, if you can increase the number of poles on the surface you should be able to enhance the amount of vitamin D taken into your cells. For this reason we look to support with rosemary and sage when we have a VDR + status. Also, because the Fok + status has shown an association with diabetes we look at additional pancreatic support. I like to add vitamin D, as you have found increasing the amount of vitamin D does increase the level in the blood. Going back to the fishing analogy, if there are more fish in the area then even a less efficient fishing pole may be able to catch more fish.

We do have a list of suggested supplements based on the Fok+ status that takes into account these considerations. You may want to consider supplementing with a number of the items on the list to see if that will be helpful.

With love and hope and again welcome to the discussion group,
Dr.Amy

VDR/ Fok
_ 1 Vitamin K (Super K)
_ 1 Vitamin D
_ 1 Rosemary
_ 1 Sage
_ 1 Gymnema sylvestre (Ayur Gymnema)
_ 2 to 3 Ora-Pancreas
_ 1 to 3 GABA per day
_ 1/2 CCK per day(Resist Fat Apex Lean)
_ 1/4 Pig Duodenum (Pig Duodenal Substance)3 times a day
_ Super digestive enzymes Enhanced with each meal
_ 1/8 Prolongevity Formula RNA
_ Watch chromium and vanadium levels on UEE test

VDR/Taq and VDR/Fok (vitamin D receptor):
The panel looks at more than one portion of the vitamin D receptor, the Taq as well as the Fok sites. While the Fok change has been related to blood sugar regulation, changes at Taq can affect dopamine levels. For this reason it is important to look at the composite of the COMT and VDR/Taq status and make supplement suggestions based on the combined results at these two sites. The focus on changes in the Fok portion of the VDR is in regard to supplements that support the pancreas and aid in keeping blood sugar in the normal healthy range.

http://ch3nutrigenomics.com/phpBB2/v...ic.php?t=13167
Blank
Avatar_m_tn

the other very good news is that probiotic version of gcmaf probably bypass bad vdr:

Overstressed  
Senior Member
Join Date
Apr 2010
Location
Belgium
Posts
180

Hi,

this morning I had mailed Prof. Ruggiero and asked his progress on bypassing the bad VDR-genotype for treatment with Gc-Maf. The answer seems to be encouraging:

"I about one week we shall present our latest results as IAS2011 in Rome. Those results should provide an answer to your questions."


Best regards,
OS.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
i got blood drawn yesterday, did they tell you how long for results?
they told me it takes about 4 weeks, I´m still waiting for the nagalase test, tough.

severely deficent, you need at least 10000iu vit d3 everyday and then recheck in 2 months if you reach values closer to 80-100ng/ml
I can´t find vitamin d3 here in brazil, I can only find it with calcium...

this means you have a mutated hbsag, is 250.000iu/ml?
actually it doesn´t say iu/mL, the method was quimioluminescencia, I´ll try to do it in a more acurate method with also the hbv dna. why does it mean it is a mutated?

anyway if we reactivate immune system by getting nagalase to normal healthy levels any mutant should be detected and cleared.if this happened with hiv and cancers why shouldn t happen on hbv...we will see
yes, I´m hoping so! nice to see you have reached the vitD without taking it, besides it did you compare your viral load and antibodies, before and now after weeks of gcmaf?


"I about one week we shall present our latest results as IAS2011 in Rome. Those results should provide an answer to your questions."
I didn´t understand how it changes the way you absorb the vit D, at the end wouldn´t it pass trough the vd receptors anyway?

thanks and regards



Blank
Avatar_m_tn

very very strange it is an over the counter supplement, if you ask your doctor they must have it, or buy it from puritans, it is very cheap and 5000iu per pill

if there is no unit like iu/ml it is probably not the quantity.better recheck and see if hbsag goes down, if it doesn t go down despite hbsab it means hbsag mutated to avoid hbsab antibodies and now you are missing the antibodies for the new hbsag form

before and now after weeks of gcmaf?
i only check hbsag quantity the rest is und, i will check hbsag early august.since i had a very high nagalase i should see nagalase normal around 18-24 weeks

I didn´t understand how it changes the way you absorb the vit D, at the end wouldn´t it pass trough the vd receptors anyway?

no the vitamin d must be supplemented anyway until you reach a high level like 80-100ng/ml, so despite a bad receptor it will be easier to catch vitamin d because there is more in serum
the probiotic is so potent that probably wont be influenced by vdr so much
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
hey stef,

I just received the nagalase results, wich is very weird for me. I expected a high value, but I´ve got this: 0,69. I´m in the regular levels.
immediatly some thoughts come to my mind. too soon to write them down.

I still couldn´t find the vit d without calcium, instead of pharmacies I´ll try supplements stores, like those ones for muscle people.

I´ve got an appoiment with the doctor at september 5th. in this hospital I can take more accurated quantity tests for hbsag, I´m thinking in ask for a full blood test, what should I test, I mean what interesting markers like the cd4, cd8 cells, blood count ( it´s been a year almost since the last one).

thanks and regards
Blank
Avatar_m_tn

got this: nagalase 0,69. I´m in the regular levels.

i guess that gcmaf is of no benefit in your case

it would be interesting to see if with this low nagalase there is immune control over hbv which is equal to a hbsag level 1500iu/ml or less

as to vitamin d3 order it from puritans.com, i am using the one with 5000iu perls

I´m thinking in ask for a full blood test.....
hbsag quantity is the most useful to understand your immune response, phase and chances of clearance





Blank
Avatar_m_tn

a test of your hbsag quantity would be very helpfull for the community for many reasons

- correlate hbsag level with nagalse
- confirm if all hbv carriers have high nagalase or if it is just my case to have very high nagalase
Blank
Avatar_m_tn

just rechecking all your data but it is needed an update close to the nagalase test about hbvdna pcr and hbsag quant in iu/ml so we may link the nagalase to the immune status of your hbv

another special test required is hbsag mutants test but i have seen it available in a few hospitals in italy (the ones who make hbv research)
test about polierase mutations and precore/bcp mutant and genotype may be useful for HCC risk and response to conventional therapies

Blank
Avatar_m_tn

looking at your labs and assuming you have no hbsag mutant, i think you have immune control of hbv since:

nagalase is normal so your immune system sould be able to detect the virus, and according to your hbsab it is so.your hbsab is also increasing

alt are almost normal

you need to check hbvdna pcr

please do check if hbsag 250000 is iu/ml unit and is done by abbot architect, such a level is common on immune tollerant or acute hbv

check hbcab igm quantitative by s/co unit, this might help to understnd your immune status too

on the contrary if you have hbsag mutants all i said above probably doesn t apply to you, there are little studies on this form and very little i can say
Blank
Avatar_m_tn

also check if abbott architect has a range til 250.000, i think it cant detect more than 99000.it is also extremely unusual to have such high levels of hbsag
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
actually my hbsab has been flutuating, it has reached higher values than now.
just for the record:
HbeAg positive
Anti-HbeAg negative
hbv DNA (april 2011) 10000000.0 UI/mL - 7 log UI/mL (real time PCR)
hbv DNA (oct 2010) 9650000.0 UI/mL - 6.98 log UI/mL (real time PCR)

about virus genotype:

genotype A1/a
"we could not find mutations of antivirals´resistance"
method: Polimerase, gene sequences dna polimerase and protein HBsAg.

Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I´ve got also the  tests from my wife and sister, if this can help to find ou it is recent or not.
My older sister did the test and was all negative. My younger sister, she lives with me, did the test and got this: feb 2011
HbsAg - negative 0,01
Anti HBs - positive higher than 1000mUI/mL
Anti HBc - positive 9,42 (abbot architet)

my wife´s result: sep 2010
HBsAg - negative 0,39
Anti HBS - positive higher than 1000 mUI/mL
Anti Hbc - positive 0,13 (abbott Axsym method)
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
stef2011 is referring to the HBsAg quantitative and in you last post you say:

"actually my hbsab has been flutuating, it has reached higher values than now.
just for the record:
HbeAg positive
Anti-HbeAg negative
hbv DNA (april 2011) 10000000.0 UI/mL - 7 log UI/mL (real time PCR)
hbv DNA (oct 2010) 9650000.0 UI/mL - 6.98 log UI/mL (real time PCR) "

hbv DNA is not the HBsAg quantitative

In one of your first you say:

"HBSAG over 250.000
Anti HBS 49.3 UI (may 2011 71.8  /oct 2010 34 /sept 2010 0,09) "

Are you sure that you paste the correct names for you analyses ?
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
personalty I'm confused regarding your post that states:
"HBSAG over 250.000
Anti HBS 49.3 UI (may 2011 71.8  /oct 2010 34 /sept 2010 0,09) "

because:
HbsAG over 250000 - means that you have the HBs Antigen
Anti HBS 49.3 UI - means that you have also the antibody (Anticorpes)

this is very rare, and from your post "genotype A1/a
"we could not find mutations of antivirals´resistance" " is improbable, so this is a reason to have another look on the names of your analyses.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
for your sister and your wife it seams to me that they had a HBV and they clear infection (they had the acute phase and not chronic) and now are immune.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
hey 4est how has going?

sorry I forgot to mention but I referred to this exactly phrase from steff "your hbsab is also increasing". then I said my antihabs has flutuated.

and thoses anti HBs values were right pasted, actually each one from a different lab.

I am aware that hbv DNA and HBsAg quantitative are different things. ; )

I put my hbv dna numbers also as a reponse to steff´s phrase "you need to check hbvdna pcr "

My last two HBsag test I did in a different lab, they both said over 250.000 and had no unit. Different from the Anti HBs done in the same lab wich said UI.

The genotype test different from the last HbsAg were made at very respected and reliable hospital. of course, sometimes there´s lab imprecisions and mistakes.

but actually I´m quite confused too...


regards




Blank
Avatar_m_tn
hi

i was not try to say that you don't know the difference between the HBV DNA and HBsAg :), it was only the fact that I'm also confused by your analyses.
I'm not so knowledge like stef2011 and i only read some classical HBV books and some study and I don't remember to found information regarding HBsAg positive and  Anti HBs positive.
I'm sure that the community will find a  explanation, I will ask also my doctor regarding this but this will be only in September when i have my 6 mouth appointment.

regards
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
"we could not find mutations of antivirals´resistance"
method: Polimerase, gene sequences dna polimerase and protein HBsAg.

this is not important, this is used only for drugs.they should check for the hbsag mutants


My last two HBsag test I did in a different lab, they both said over 250.000 and had no unit.

if there isn t iu/ml after the number it is not quantitative so this test needs to be re-checked with result in iu/ml

hbv DNA (april 2011) 10000000.0 UI/mL - 7 log UI/mL (real time PCR)
is hbvdna still so elevated?if so you have an hbsag mutant but in any case nagalase should be high and not low....i guess if it is so the mutant hbsag have other means to escape immune system
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I found this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1395421/

Blank
Avatar_m_tn

pisa researcher found that interferon was effective to clear hbv with mutations in the "a" determinant, they said this virus is weaker.alinia might be effective too comboed with interferon
the patient in pisa had this mutation due to lamivudine
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
when is important that a person to do the genotype of the virus and the possible mutation ?

I'm asking this because this investigation are quite expensive (I heard that genotype investigation is around 300 Euro and for other I expect at the same amount or maybe more)

Do you know were this analysis are available ? (analysis for genotype I think that I saw something of some labs, but for mutation i don't saw it - or maybe I don't look for the correct names)
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
At a closer look I think I found the investigation on a private laboratory and the price are quite high, 300 euro for HBV genotype and 450 euro for HBV resistance to the drugs (nucs), so my previous questions is still valid.
When is necessary for a person to do the genotype of the virus and the possible mutation ?
Blank
Avatar_m_tn

i suggest these tests only when totally free because paid by healthcare, insurance or a research center, if you have to pay skip them

genotype of hbv: not very useful, only predicts very little increased chances on interferon

mutants of hbsag: not very useful because you will see from hbsag and hbsab tests both positive for longer than a year if the mutants is present

mutants of polimerase: absolutely needed before starting antivirals because we have mutations before we take antivirals,hbv produces mutants viruses of any type on dily basis and only the fit ones will stay.this is the way hbv escape immune system, just making random mutants all the time

Do you know were this analysis are available ?
italy, germany, france for sure at liver centers hospitals
Blank
Avatar_m_tn

you might check if you have coverage in italy as a european community citizen, in italy you will pay less for sure at public hospitals and also fibroscan will beless expensive
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
thanks :)
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I have to check regarding italy covreage, becauseI want a second opinion regarding my results and italy look fine.

Fibroscan is ok also in Romania, It is pay by the national healthcare and I already done this investigation.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Dear Stef,                   I am HbsAg +ve donno since when. I got to know when i donated blood in 2011 december. Tested HBV DNA on Sep 2012 and it is 4540642IU/ml = 26426536 copies/ml, ALT - 66, AST - 48, rest all LFT is within normal range, i was feeling mild pain under the right lower ribs, HbeAg is Negative and Anti HbeAg is +ve. Doc advise to take tdf for six months and test again. Aug 2013 report is HBV DNA is < 6 iu/ ml = < 35 copies/ml. Alt 26 and Ast 26. Rest all reports are within normal. What is the next course of treatmant? Pls advise. I am feeling occassional mild pain under the right lower ribs.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
You can not stop tnf after a year, dna will return again. You should test hbsAg quantity in IU/ml. The goal of the therapy is to have hbsag und and develop enough of hbsab. After a few years of tdf therapy if hbsah is below 1000 you can start interferon.
Blank
Post a Comment
To
Blank
Weight Tracker
Weight Tracker
Start Tracking Now
Hepatitis B Community Resources
RSS Expert Activity
469720_tn?1388149949
Blank
Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm-treatable... Blank
Oct 04 by Lee Kirksey, MDBlank
242532_tn?1269553979
Blank
The 3 Essentials to Ending Emotiona...
Sep 18 by Roger Gould, M.D.Blank
242532_tn?1269553979
Blank
Control Emotional Eating with this ...
Sep 04 by Roger Gould, M.D.Blank
Top Hepatitis Answerers
Avatar_m_tn
Blank
stef2011
Italy
Avatar_m_tn
Blank
StephenCastlecrag
Australia
9624973_tn?1413019730
Blank
melcul
United Kingdom
Avatar_m_tn
Blank
veteranB
CA
568322_tn?1370169040
Blank
CoWriter
Avatar_m_tn
Blank
SafiSifa
Izmir, Turkey