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vit d3 82ng/ml and lowering alt, not on therapy
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vit d3 82ng/ml and lowering alt, not on therapy


my sister just got tests results and the patern of hbvdna, alt looks inversely correlated with vitd 25oh>80ng/ml, this can be confirmed by time, she now has for the first time alt 40, hbvdna stable at around 200.000iu/ml, no liver damage 4.5kpa, hbsag around 18.000iu/ml

probably vitamin d is able to protect liver despite hbvdna detactable keeping alt 40, she will be checking fibroscan and hbsag next month

she has normal calcium as usual and creatinine and check every 3 months with vit d.she has daily vit d3 5000-8000iu
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Avatar_m_tn

forgot cholesterol, she also keeps:
tot chol around 190mg/dl
ldl 100mg/dl
hdl 76mg/dl

by taking red yeast rice from time to time but not continuatively
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Avatar_m_tn
well done stef!

how long has she been intaking vit D3? Are those softgels 5000iu we spoke about?
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Avatar_m_tn
yes, about 1years vit d3 to raise so much

she tried alinia mono in 2010 but didn t work

she s hbeag neg
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Avatar_f_tn
I am curious.  How long has she had elevated alt and hbvdna?  Why isn't she on antiviral therapy?  
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Avatar_m_tn
always

she is not on antiviral therapy because liver has no damage at all so antivirals are useless.
initaly we have fibroscans everywhere so therapy is started only if here is liver damage, hbvdna is meaningless if there is no liver damage
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Avatar_m_tn
I'm glad to hear that you sister is doing well and that the vit d look like protect the liver.

what was she's base line for vit d (and alt . hvb/dna) ?
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Avatar_m_tn

vit d3 10ng/ml
hbvdna 300.000iu/ml
alt 60-70

if you consider that i was 30-50 with hbvdna und on etv there isn t much difference.

but all this can be done with fibroscan monitoring because alt and hbvdna do not reflect liver damage but in her case they do as confirmed by fibroscan
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Avatar_m_tn
of curse that fibroscan is mandatory for monitoring.

looks like vit d help to low hvbdna and alt and most important keep the same result in fibroscan score.

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Avatar_m_tn

we will keep monitoring if this is the effect of vit d or just coincidence
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Avatar_m_tn
stef are those softgels I'm currently intaking 10000 daily?
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Avatar_m_tn
maybe a goggle excel table with all of this results, base line, previous results ... will be a good tool to see it
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Avatar_m_tn

me and my sister are keeping it, i dont know if she agrees to put all that online but i can post single results
in any case she is feeling defenitely better than when vit d deficent with no colds, flu and so on
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Avatar_m_tn
suggestion was for you and not for public :) (I wasn't aware that you already use it)


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Avatar_f_tn
Happy to hear the good news about your sister.
I have just tested vit D3 level and hbvdna and HbsAg quantative this morning.
Vit D3 and hbvdna results will be ready on Monday and Hbsag quantity will be ready only two weeks later. I'll post it when I have them.
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Avatar_m_tn

i was checking vitamindwiki.com for studies on vitamin d and found that vitamin d increases hdl, i found a link to this trial too and it looks it is possible to get hdl to 80mg/dl or higher.
we do know hdl is antiviral on hbv from a study presented at easl 2010 or 2011, high hdl like 80mg/dl makes also heart diseases/strokes/diabetes to zero and also centenarios are all found to have hdl>80mg/dl

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2011/11/hdl-80-mgdl.html

then i check my sister's and mine hdl and using vitamin d we both went from:
my baseline hdl before vit d was 43mg/dl, which is lower than normal and linked to fatty liver, metabolic syndrom (syndrome) and so on
my hdl got 65mg/dl  after getting vitamin d higher than 50ng/ml.i am also on omega 3 but never reduced  wheat or limited carbohydrate consumption

my sister was around 50mg/dl and now at hdl 75mg/dl
she is just on vit d, but not reduced carbohydrate consumption and not on omega 3
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Avatar_m_tn
of course this is very beneficial to liver and immune system too, so if anyone wants to try, just make sure to have enough proteins from soia and fish and very very few from meat and cheese

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2011/11/hdl-80-mgdl.html

HDL 80 mg/dl

Posted on November 14, 2011 by Dr. William Davis
More and more people in my clinic are showing HDL cholesterol values of 80 mg/dl or higher, males included.

Think about it: Nationwide, average HDL for males is 42 mg/dl and for females 52 mg/dl. Even though these average values are generally regarded as favorable, HDL cholesterol values at these levels are nearly always associated with higher levels of triglycerides, postprandial (after-eating) lipoprotein abnormalities, and excessive quantities of small LDL particles.

HDL particles are, of course, protective and are powerfully anti-oxidative. Higher levels of HDL have been associated with reduced potential for cancer, as well as reduced risk for heart disease.

Following the simple regimen that we follow to gain control over coronary plaque has therefore increased levels of HDL to heights that are uncommon in the rest of the population, levels that readily top 80, 90, or 100 mg/dl. That regimen includes:

1) Elimination of all wheat–Yes, consumption of “healthy whole grains” sets you up to have lower HDL levels; elimination of wheat increases HDL.
2) Limited carbohydrate consumption–While eliminating wheat is a powerful nutritional strategy to increase HDL, non-wheat carbohydrates like quinoa, millet, beans, rice, and fruit can still cause high triglycerides that lead to reduced levels of HDL. Limited exposure helps keep HDL at higher levels.
3) Omega-3 fatty acid supplementation–Because omega-3 fatty acids reduce both triglycerides and blunt the postprandial rise in lipoproteins that can cause HDL degradation, HDL rises with omega-3s from fish oil.
4) Vitamin D supplementation–The effect is slow, but it is BIG. HDL just goes up and up and up over about 2 years of supplementation. Before vitamin D, HDL levels of 60 mg/dl were the best I could hope for in most people. Now 80 mg/dl is an everyday occurrence.

Other factors can also be used to increase HDL levels, such as weight loss, red wine and alcohol, exercise, cocoa flavonoids, green tea, and niacin. But following the regimen above sends HDL through the roof in the majority.
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Avatar_m_tn
regarding increasing HDL - have a look on this
http://www.colesterol-stop.ro/en/studiu.html

unfortunately, I haven't have a chance to verify this, but i will verify it and come back to the results (I write a email to the indicated Institute and wait for the reply)
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Avatar_m_tn
that is true but all fish with high omega3 is beneficial, populations on fish diets like alaska or graceland have almost zero problems with heart but i believe vit d has the most part

i will try to check also my father hdl, he was around hdl 40  and glucose 125 with vit d 11ng/ml
with d3 85ng/ml glucose dropped to perfectly normal around 90, first time in years, now i will try to follow his hdl too, i remember he was around 55mg/dl already with d3 85ng/ml but i guess it got higher with time
my father is also on omega 3 and fibroguard
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Avatar_m_tn

i do believe about danube fish but i think there is a lot of pollutants in those waters...if they check fish oil for pollutants and then filter it can be a very good product
i only take the filtered fish oil for omega3 because most fish has poluttants for sure
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Avatar_m_tn
is not fish oil - a fish conserve :) ... don't think that they filter, but I will ask (on the other hand I don't think that is so much polluted at leas not now )
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Avatar_m_tn
to let anybody know, another member got normal ast/alt by getting vit d normal range, i d follow with intrest as he gets to 70-90ng/ml range

brij116  
1 hour
To: stef2011
I checked my vit d3 level after 2 months of medication. It has improved to a level of (40.30 ng/ml).

I have followed following medication. Calcirol - 60,000 IU (1/week) for six weeks + 1 Shelcal HD daily.

Now I am continuing with the  schedule: Calcirol - 60,000 IU (1/month) for six months + 1 Shelcal HD daily.

This is the shcedule my doctor has prescribed. I do not know why he is giving Shelcal - HD (it has Calcuim -500mg and vit d3 - 500 IU).

Good part it my Liver Function test has come to normal -
AST - 28.0
ALT - 31.0
S. Bilirubin Total : 0.61
Other tests  are also normal
S. Creatine - 1.0
S. Calcium - 9.1

Though, My overall health has improved, but I still feel some giddiness. Doctor says it will take some time to improve since I was suffering from chronic deficiency of Vit d3. (any views Stef ?)

After 15 days i will check my HBSag level and let you know for your further guidance.
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Avatar_m_tn
that's great then... it shoudl be even better with 70/80 ng/ml.. shouldn't it?
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Avatar_m_tn
Yes,

Stef has constantly been advising me to boost my d3 level to improve my HBSag and HBVdna level. Around 2 months back when i checked for d3 level it was only 6.8 ng/ml. So I took Calcirol (60,000 IU) - 1 /week and Shelcal-HD - 1 daily, I have also been taking Probiotic on and of. Now, after two months, my d3 level has come to 40.30 ng/ml with all the Liver Function tests normal (as shown above). I feel much better (though there is still some giddiness at times)

Now, as adivsed by stef I will stop Calcium and continue only with vit d3 and test for d3 level after 15-20 days. Meawhile  I will be cheking my HBSag level to see the impact of improved vit d3 level.
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Avatar_m_tn
in fact 2 months seems to be a great recovery time.. have you bought vitd3 locally?
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Avatar_m_tn

by the way remember that vit d3 absorption can be boosted by oliv oil or fish oil and that capsules with oils are better.
it is also better to take capsules during meals
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Avatar_m_tn
i do believe softgels have got some oil into their compositiion
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Avatar_m_tn
Yes, I bought it localy. But no body understands vitd3 in India. I checked with many medical stores. But they always said that there are no vitd3 tablets or capsuls availble and it comes only with Calcium. Finally, I asked for Calcirol which is a very high dose suitable for weekly and monthly  schedule only. Along with this weekly/montly dose , I had been taking shelcal-HD (calcium + Vitd3 500IU) daily as a maitainance dose.

Now, I have procured vitd3 through net and stopped Shelcal-HD following Stef's advice. However, I will continue with following schedule for next 6 months:
Calcirol (vit d3-60,000IU) - 1/month +
Vit d3 Capsules (2000-IU) - 1/day
Addtional 1000-IU per day I will manage with milk, egg and Sun. I have also been getting sunrays for 30-45 min everday during 12;00pm to 2:00pm

As far as I know, Vit d3 is insoulble in water. I have been taking Calcirol, which is in powdery form with a cup of milk . Vit d3 is soluble in milk.

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Avatar_m_tn

for those interested i have found the following in capsules:

puritans.com
vit d3 5000iu capsules

http://www.biotechpharmacal.com/
vit d3 in 5000iu per capsule and 50.000iu per capsules, they are with no oil so these must be taken with a meal

solgar.com
solgar d3 5000iu capsules

i have found these good prices and products online online, at pharmacies the products are expensive, with ridiculous d3 quantity
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Avatar_m_tn
also nowfood has 5000 iu vit d 3

http://www.nowfoods.com/Supplements/Products-by-Category/Vitamins/Vitamin-D/M103118.htm
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Avatar_m_tn
"we do know hdl is antiviral on hbv from a study presented at easl 2010 or 2011, ... " - do you have the link to this study ? (I had a quick look but not found )
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Avatar_m_tn

i posted already here it was easl 2010 or 2011, i can t find it by search box now.it was something simialr to vit d abstarct, those with lowest hbvdna have high hdl

here's webcasts link but we have to search again all both 2010 and 2011
http://www.multiwebcast.com/easl/2011/International_Liver_Congress_2011/listing_poster/by_poster#_t_192
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Avatar_m_tn

i ll check them all later anyway since we have access to full studies now and it can be interesting to see full study of some
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Avatar_m_tn
http://www2.kenes.com/liver-congress/Pages/Previous_Congresses.aspx
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Avatar_m_tn

not the study at easl which considered also good hdl ranges superior to 70mg/dlbut about hdl
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2949833/

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Avatar_m_tn
finally after googling about 2 hrs found the link of posters about easl 2011 berlin, the study is among these abstracts

http://www1.easl.eu/easl2011/program/Posters/index.asp

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Avatar_m_tn
thanks for the general link. I will look for the hdl presentation for more details (I spend some time, but not found it yet :) )
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Avatar_m_tn
folowing link is related to HCV but also with vit D and interferon (look for What about vitamin D ? section)

http://hepatitiscnewdrugs.blogspot.com/2012/01/hepatitis-c-and-liver-health-getting-it.html

- what i don't understand is the "opposite" opinion:
1. Mega-vitamin supplements, particularly if they contain vitamins A and D, may be harmful. Excess vitamin A is very toxic to the liver.

2. The Bottom Line: Vitamin D3 may have a significant impact on HCV and treatment for it.

or maybe is just about the quantity of D supplements.

on the other hand (regarding other vitamin) they say:
"Based on the conducted randomised clinical trials, convincing evidence that beta-carotene, vitamin A, vitamin C, and vitamin E or their combinations are beneficial for treatment of alcoholic, autoimmune, hepatitis B or hepatitis C virus liver diseases, or liver cirrhosis could not be found."



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Avatar_m_tn
http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2010/Dietary-Reference-Intakes-for-Calcium-and-Vitamin-D.aspx - new guidelines for vitamin D by IOM
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Avatar_m_tn
does this mean even 5000iu/daily can harm the liver??
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Avatar_m_tn

vitamin a is bad for hbv and not necessary, only d is necessary.betacarotene is a precursor of vit a, this is not toxic at any dose but again not nedded on hbv

C and E may help recover liver damage  and oxidative stress but no immune system/antiviral effect like vit D

i could not find that study that measured also high titers of hdl like 60-90mg/dl which are not common.anyway even older studies linked high hbvdna with low hdl

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Avatar_m_tn

no vit d dose can dmaage liver until 20000iu daily with normal calcium, just look at trials on people with hbv or hcv or liver diaseases

there are tons of disinformation with no human trials or study to prove vitamin d can have any toxicity while we do have studies that show antiviral effect and protection of liver and regression of liver damage by vit d.so obviously it cannot be toxic but the contrary

the levels must be 60-100ng/ml with normal calcium
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Avatar_m_tn
some other sites say that 3000 - 5000 UI is OK - http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/how-to-get-your-vitamin-d/vitamin-d-supplementation/

on the vitamin D the recomandation are not clear yet.

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Avatar_m_tn
I agree that levels have to be >40 or 60 -100 ... but the questions is if is OK to go with 5000 UI and reach this levels in a short time or is OK to go with 2000 UI and reach this levels in a longer time. - I think this is the question - how is the best way to reach the levels fast and high UI or slow and low UI.

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Avatar_m_tn

they are all wrong the dose cannot be established because we are all different, 5000iu dose may be used for healthy people with no infections/obesity only, all the others needs to measure vit d and calcium and increase or lower doses according to response.
once 70-90ng/ml are reached the dose can be slowly decreased to 7000iu and then 5000iu to see what can keep levels at that range.

for me only 10.000iu daily can reach 69ng/ml, for my sister 80ng/ml, at 5000iu we get lower than 50ng/ml.so it must be personalized to reach the correct levels.
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Avatar_m_tn
Why the IOM Recommendations for Vitamin D are Deficient - http://www.vitamindwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page_id=1330
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Avatar_m_tn

that disinformation is going on since it was rejected patent to vit d because there are too many diseases prevented thus too many loss on drug industry

in this story they produced vit d2 which is not natural and was patented but this vit d2 has toxicity, sides effect, calcemina and can t rise vit d3 in serum.......

anyway only US institutes are continuatively reporting wrong values despite tons of studies and european institutes/researchers saying opposite, this makes think of corruption in US going beyond FDA only.....even OMS has been shown to be corrupted in the swine flu story because the same persons in the OMS saying it was pandemic were paid by flu drug makers.too bad the trials for corruption started in europe are so silent and we dont even know if those persons have been charged for what they did...
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Avatar_m_tn
Serum 25-Hydroxyvitamin D and the Incidence of Acute Viral Respiratory Tract Infections in Healthy Adults

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0011088

chart of illness according to vit d levels:
many many sick patients vit d below 50ng/ml
4 patients with vit d levels between 50-70ng/ml
no sick patients d levels over 75ng/ml


http://www.plosone.org/article/slideshow.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0011088&imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0011088.g002

Conclusions

The data in this study suggests that supplementing with vitamin D to raise the concentrations in the general population to above 38 ng/ml could result in a significant health benefit by reducing the burden of illness from viral infections, at a minimum from viral infections of the respiratory tract in healthy adults living in temperate climates. Our findings may provide direction for and call for future interventional studies examining the efficacy of vitamin D supplementation in reducing the incidence and severity of specific viral infections, including influenza, in the general population and in specific subpopulations, such as pregnant women, dark skinned individuals, and the obese.
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Avatar_m_tn
as I was google for HDL - HVB DNA relation (still not found EASL report) i was came across the flowing articles:
http://www.theheart.org/article/1174743.do
and
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8267570/Millions-taking-statins-needlessly.html
and even if they are not direct related to HBV, I think is good to be mentioned for people that use statin
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