12 WK PCR

My long-awaited 12 week PCR results came today - 3 weeks after the test.  To update my stats - 57 yof, infected probably 1970 or so, geno 1a, initial VL 1.52 million IU/ML and my tx start date was 7/15/05.   At 4 weeks, VL was 2320 IU/ml

12 wk PCR is 40 IU/ml

I have to admit I am disappointed.  I did so much want to show undetectable, but I also asked for the most sensative test LabCorp had - down to 5 copies/ml.  Seems like we had a discussion about this a few weeks ago.  My feeling was that I didn't want a test that might show me as undetectable but I wasn't. So, now I know. WHat do ya'll think - should I ask for PCR's at 16 weeks and 20 weeks?  My next one is not scheduled until 24 weeks, but it seems that I need to know when I clear as soon as possible.  I have never missed a riba or a shot, by the way.

I have, in my anal retentive way, been writing down all the 12 week PCR results of my "shot buddies" that started in June or July or so and am going to post them for all of the people trying to decide, and the rest of us too.  I kind of like to see them all laid out.

Aubie - started 7/08 - 12 wk PCR    CLEAR

Avidreader - started July or so      still waiting results

Nor Cal Mom  started July  12 wk PCR   CLEAR

Fl Guy   -started July or so       12 wk PCR     <50  (=CLEAR)

Cougareyes - started Jun or Jul    12 wk PCR     CLEAR

Carpedi  - started Jun or Jul      12 wk PCR     CLEAR

Jaroman    started Jun or Jul      12 wk PCR     1.96 log drop

to be continued

[friole]

You want to know something else funny - I don't think the nurse could read the results.  She called and said "Good news, you are under 50 copies"  (and in my mind I am thinking, did they run the wrong test?)-so when I have the results back and read them myself - it didn't even say that.  And then she says, but your white blood counts are down................ to which I say---- those were the 10/6 test results that you had already given me, and I have had 2 CBC's since then and am on Neupogen (you dork - not said, but thought).  Oh, she says, good.

I do wonder if the results are mine, in that I am almost sure they lost them --- I will call the doc to ask for another PCR after 16.


Still, all and all the class of 2006 is doing excellent

friole

[cougareyes]

Great post, and your results are awesome. It is very uplifting to see all the good results laid out that way. I'm a 1a, had for 25 years, starting vl 1.06mil. My pcr was done to <50.  Peace

[scruffy]

I would do as you're thinking. Earlier pcr then 24 week and treat 36 weeks after UNDETECTABLE with sensitive test.I wish I had. I was less then 600IU/ml at 12 weeks but still detectable and just went the standard 48 weeks total.I relapsed and I don't want YOU to!I'm 1a for those who might wonder. Friole, you DO have a GREAT response though as far as viral decline. Frank

[honey11]

Friole,,,,Congratulations!!  I can see the disappointment in your words,,,,of not getting the big negative,,,,0!  But remember,,,most people don't get such a sensitive PCR. Good for you!  You are really on top of things and clearing this virus out quickly!  My first pcr was the 650 and showed negative! I was thrilled but now that I think back,,,,I could very well had a virus of 649 or less,,,
Actually my doc screwed up because I ordered the 50 PCR and somehow when I received my labs,,,,it showed the less then 650 but anyway,,,,I was happy to be negative because I started out with 8.5 million.  My husband at 12 weeks also was negative,,,,however his test was the right one,,,,the 50.  His beginning viral load was 600,000.  Now,,,,according to these tests,,,we both cleared at 12 weeks of meds so all happy but the dr that we went to ALWAYS does 52 weeks of tx.  I don't know why but that is his regular schedule if clear at 12 weeks so that is why we both went 52 weeks as Chev was talking about.  
My point is that I'm sure tons of us,,,,if we had the more sensitive test that you took,,,,,we may all have showed up with a little something.  Definitely,,,something to celebrate about!!

[GoofyDad]

Hey friole.  Nice response. I was holdng out for the zero for you too, so this is a bit of a dissappointment. Sure we'd like to see zero - no doubt about that. But you're responding nicely and blasted through the 2 log drop. You're doing great.

As others have said, many would have thought this was a zero. And 3 weeks? Sheesh, I would have popped a gasket!

[carpedi]

Looks to me like you're in really good shape! One thing to remember is that we don't know what the benchmark PCR range is for the test studies and that makes it hard to decipher exactly what "undetectable" is per those statistics. I think some of the studies have to be pretty old and therefore would have used the less sensitive tests to determine response. In fact, I think I read that the <5 IU test is quite a recent development and may not figure in the statistics at all. I know it's disappointing to think that there are any of those nasty critters left, but you've stomped a huge number of them, and the rest are going to go!
I actually started tx on July 4th with a pre-tx VL of 122,000. My 4 week Pcr was 45/IU (again, the dilemma, is this "undetectable " by the statistic standards?), and my 12 week PCR was clear using <10 IU. I'm a 1b, 64 yo female, stage 1 grade 2 bx. Anyway, keep up the good work and you will beat this thing!!!

[HepCinLA]

Hi!

I wanted to respond to your post the other day but the thread closed out!

I thought the goal of the 12 week test was to get a 2 log drop and clear by week 24.  As disappointing as your 12 week result may seem, you are well on your way.  Of the 12 week PCR test results you are tracking, do you know if the undetectable result was based on a test of <50 or <5.  It's possible that some of the individuals you listed as undectable would actual have a viral load if given a more sensitive test.  Would you consider extending treatment a few extra weeks as insurance?

By the way, thanks for asking.  I am doing well. Very few sides (just mainly tired).  Could be b/c I am actually doing more now than before treatment.  Need to remember to take it easy now and then but it's tough especially with two very active little ones running around:-)

[Tallblonde]

I know how completely obsessed we can become over the numbers in this HCV game.  I do the same thing with every test I take...ALT, AST, VL, etc., etc. etc.

But I really think you deserve to CELEBRATE your result.  It clearly indicates that you're a responder.  Try not to convince yourself that something ominous is going on.  There's no reason for negative thinking.  

You'll get that coveted SVR.  I just know it!

Best wishes to you...
Susan

[chellski]

friole - glad you got ur results back....my test's have only been 50< so who knows?   -   as others have said you are still a responder and that is a major thing to celebrate!  
take care.
chellski

[njrsl]

Congradulations to alll the list above who is clearing... dont worry gal bout them 40 bugars. your CURED!!!! I know longer worry about HepC and I relapsed poeple die from other stuff first!!!! i'm on a antiinflammatory diet. I went to a healthsite!!!!! dont let the doc depress ya about a count. They are just WRONG!!! dont look back and enjoy ya succsss.  Ya postin inspires folks.Next time I treat im doin the shortest TX available!!!!!!! seems some folks are gluttons for punishment and end upt TX 1 and haf to 2 years. Saw a couple females dontlike my postin below to dunn..  Women!!! start eduating yourselfs... start worry about gettin HepC from finger saloons.. Hahahaha!!!!!! an not sex!!!!!
I'm really happy for ya!!!!!!! good luck have some fun

[mikesimon]

Congratulations!!!!! Don't worry - you're doing great. Mike

[jaroman]

I think your 40 copies is great news, though I know a big fat undetectable in writing would be better.  Get another pretty soon.
I like your shot buddy list-fun idea.  But, um, I am the only one that wasnt clear.  Bummer...
I am getting week 24 drawn early Nov.

[wMich]

Congrats on your overall progress despite the disappointment. My start date, since you are keeping track of the "July starters", was 7/29/05. My 12 week viral load test showed only that I was under 650, well over a 2 log drop, but "undetectable" for that test's sensitivity. Since my baseline before Tx was 1,140,000 my insurance agreed to another 36 weeks of meds. I have requested a more sensitive test at the 24 week point, for my own reasons. My doc said that my insurance company would probably not pay for this. I'm getting ready to call Quest Diagnostics and get a quote on their Hepamax test. Any feedback on what others have paid (out of pocket) for Hepamax and similar highly-sensitive tests would be appreciated.   - Lee

[friole]

Mistybean  started Jul or so    4 wk PCR     CLEAR
                                12 wk PCR - waiting for results

IwillbeathepC    started Jun or Jul   12 wk PCR   CLEAR

wMich    new poster but started about Jul
                                12 wk PCR    <650

sailinlady   also new, started about Jul
                               12 wk PCR     <50

THere are also a couple of MIA's

   fairygirl and jtmack - where are you - please post your 12 wk results (again, if I missed them)

If anyone else out there has recently had their 12 wk - please post

Love you all, friole

[LvdByGod!]

I didn't have time to read all the comments. but by most drs tests <615 or <50 iu...you would have been declaired CLEAR!!!! so that is GREAT!!! i'll tell you why. hardly anyone is really completely clear at 12 weeks or they would take us all off meds right then on our first clear!!!.... they are never 100% clear by 12 weeks,(well perhaps a few are)...but, there are always a few virus' hangin arround in there...just too low a number to be detected on most tests...but yours showed their ugly heads on that very sensitive test....that's all...some folks only get tested to 615 iu and are declared non detectable...

so, celebrate!!!! by most drs tests you'd be right where you should be...today!!!

now, i would continue to get those 5 iu until they come out non detectable and then i would go for one whole year past that exact test date...and not less if you have the dragon fighting guts for it. i would definately get them done once a month until they show clear! so you will know when to start counting...or at least ask the dr about this idea of doing it this way and "going a year after clear"...that's what i am doing...and it feels right! i feel i'm giving it my absolute best...

CONGRATULATIONS "ARE" IN ORDER FOR YOU MY DEAR!!!

(i missed you while i was gone!)

sandi

[cuteus]

you got to be KIDDING ME!!
40 f**ing copies??? Youi would have been negative with my <50iu/ml test from Quest, and happy as a clam to post CLEAR!
holy cow! still detectable.
You could still be ok with 48 wks of tx, but I would be nervous to do that. My fearful brain would tell me to go past the 48 wks.
BUT HEY! you are a RESPONDER!!!
since they took so long in getting your results to you, are you sure they didn't find just anyone's PCR to shut you up?
paranoid minds want to know.

[cuteus]

I would insist on an earlier PCR. By some standards you would have been considered EVR with the 4 wk result, interesting concept, given the fact that at 12 wks, most don't get the most sensitive tests. kind of throw some statistics off...

[honey11]

haha what the heck is a finger saloon????  Ok,,,you keep stating that you can't get hep from sex but there is a small percent that you can.  Or is it that you feel better knowing,,,,if you say it enough times,,over and over,,,it will come true hahaha

[HCA]

I would be happy to be on your list.
Baseline 1.3m I.U
12 weeks 606
24 weeks not detected <25 I.U
Currently week 28

[v eggie dip]

sorry your results were dissapointing to you, but that was a great thread listing all the new treaters...I would be real curious to see out of those that show clear at 12 weeks, how many are 1A's....

Beth

[hubbyandme]

Hello everyone,

It's great to hear about so many people clearing the virus.  My husband is a 1b and his VL is over 9 million.  I noticed that the VL for a lot of you started a lot less than that.  He is going for an ultrasound and bx next.  Does the VL determine how much damage there is to the liver?  We are not sure, but he probably has had this for over 20 years.  His liver function tests all were within range.  Does anyone know of any 1b's that had such a high VL and cleared?

Thanks,

Kathy

[honey11]

Hi Kathy,,,,Viral load does not necessarily mean liver damage. Some with low viral loads have liver damage and others with high,,,,may have none.  Viral Count flucuates so getting the biopsy will be the true indicator of your husbands liver.  I'm a former 1A and had a viral load of 8.5 million and my 6 month post was clear.  Let us know about his biopsy and you have found a good spot to come for support.  Best Wishes!

[friole]

Thank you all for the kind comments.  Being a part of this support group is just great.

Hubby - welcome.  Altho the 9 million is high, there are many here who have posted higher.  I don't think that the number is going to indicate the liver damage.  You will know much more after the biopsy next week.  I know this is a very anxious time for you and your husband.  I personally found that the pre treatment anxiety was worse than the treatment.  Has he decided to treat yet, or are you waiting for the biopsy results?  Please post them when you get them.

wMich - I use LabCorp, but I will let you know when I get the BC/BS statement what the difference is in their test sensitive to <5 copies compared to the last one I had which was sensitive to <100 copies (and cost about $400)

Jaroman - Don't feel bad.  Both of us are detectable at 12.  I have every confidence that we will beat this bug.  I did feel bad when I posted your 1.96 drop but I wanted to show the real stats that I have been writing down.   I remember the comments when you first posted and we all felt that that rounded to the 2 point log drop.  I just know we will succeed

HepCinLA - Glad you are feeling better.  I too am a tad confused about what we need to have or are expected to have at 12 weeks to expect to clear at 48.  Is standard protocol 2 log drop at 12 weeks and clear at 24, and go to 48?   Or is the standard to go for 36 weeks after you clear?  I guess a bit more research is in order.

Kathy

[mistybean]

My 14 week pcr came in yesterday at clear.  I think your PCR looks good.  40 bugs is very small.  Even mine is only at 10mg or under because that is the lowest my lab will detect.  I think you are in great shape.  You so close to a ND that I don't thisn 10 bugs vs 40 bugs is much different.  Good luck

[strator]

Those sounds like great though results though you may be frustrated. I'm sure that just like with those last obnoxious party guests that just won't leave, you will let those little viper's know that when you said "OUT!" you meant "EVERYBODY! THAT"S RIGHT, YOU TOO! I DON'T CARE WHERE YOU GO BUT YOU AIN'T STAYING HERE!"
Watch their dust! Have a WONderful day!
Don

[nor cal mom]

CONGRATS!!!!! My test was for <50 I think you are as clear as I was Celebrate! You know Drink hot milk go to bed early :) My favorite past time these days. 1a 245000vl pre treatment I am happy to be your list Love & Peace Darcy

[hubbyandme]

honey11 and friole,

Thanks for the information.  My husband goes for a bx

[friole]

mistybean -- Congrats on your negative.  I am taking it all in stride today.  I know we are whipping this bug

hubby -- I don't know why these doc's don't want to bx.  I think they get on their high horse that everyone with the virus should treat, and that is that.  I am glad I insisted on the bx

Nor cal, stator, - thanks

frijole

[cuteus]

can't resist this time...
"an not sex!!!!!" is this a promise that you won't(I hope) or an incentive that those who know you will definetely won't!(with you).

I truly am happy that you are so much more enlighten and smarter about hcv  than us closed minds.
there, you got me this time.