Aa
About log drop???
Good morning all,
I have been seeing a lot about log drops, Etc. Could someone please explain this to me? I have no idea what it means.
Thanks,
The Beagle
I have been seeing a lot about log drops, Etc. Could someone please explain this to me? I have no idea what it means.
Thanks,
The Beagle
Thanx Hun . My day is already great !! Got some extra loving b4 my sweetie went off to work , now to drudge through this 22 degrees and get the boy to school.Hey all have a great day, and yes we are all in the same boat, I just wonder who's the Captain, when we can't man the Helm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!~~~~~~~Sidey......
Congratulations on being non-detectible!
The Drusano model suggests that genotype 1's (in general) have about a 90% chance of SVR if they treat 36 weeks after they become non-detectible; and an 80% chance of SVR if they treat 32 weeks past being non-detectible. So, for example if you were non-detectible at week #12, then you'd treat for 48 weeks with a 90% chance of SVR.
So, in your case, the question then becomes when did you become non-detectible? If your first and only PCR was at week 24, then you could assume you were also non-detectible at week 12 but it would only be an assumption.
Regarding the advantages of a 36-week PCR versus just one at 48 weeks. The more PCR's you have, the more certainty you will have that there were no viral breaktrhough between tests. In other words that your non-detectibility was continuous throughout treatment. And conversly, if there is a breakthrough, you'll have a closer approximation of when which can help your doctor deterimine how much longer to treat if that is the route he wants to take. I think a 36-week PCR is a very good idea. My doctor actually prefers monthly PCR's for his patients during treatment, although I have them only every 2-3 months.
-- Jim
The Drusano model suggests that genotype 1's (in general) have about a 90% chance of SVR if they treat 36 weeks after they become non-detectible; and an 80% chance of SVR if they treat 32 weeks past being non-detectible. So, for example if you were non-detectible at week #12, then you'd treat for 48 weeks with a 90% chance of SVR.
So, in your case, the question then becomes when did you become non-detectible? If your first and only PCR was at week 24, then you could assume you were also non-detectible at week 12 but it would only be an assumption.
Regarding the advantages of a 36-week PCR versus just one at 48 weeks. The more PCR's you have, the more certainty you will have that there were no viral breaktrhough between tests. In other words that your non-detectibility was continuous throughout treatment. And conversly, if there is a breakthrough, you'll have a closer approximation of when which can help your doctor deterimine how much longer to treat if that is the route he wants to take. I think a 36-week PCR is a very good idea. My doctor actually prefers monthly PCR's for his patients during treatment, although I have them only every 2-3 months.
-- Jim
Good morning,
Every thing is fine. Tonight is shot # 4, and I'm sure all will go well. I think your bx results will be fine from what you said. So a log drop is dropping a zero from the #, I got it.
The Beagle
Every thing is fine. Tonight is shot # 4, and I'm sure all will go well. I think your bx results will be fine from what you said. So a log drop is dropping a zero from the #, I got it.
The Beagle
Sorry,you haven't got it right on the log thing.
It refers to viral load, not HGB.
If you have a viral load of 1000000,then one log drop brings it 100000, and two log to 10000.
If you sre going to clear you need to make two log drop after 12 weeks of treatment.
Your HGB drop is fairly typical,and not too bad.
I went down to 7.6-danger zone, and had extra procrit plus and two weeks of no RBV.
It refers to viral load, not HGB.
If you have a viral load of 1000000,then one log drop brings it 100000, and two log to 10000.
If you sre going to clear you need to make two log drop after 12 weeks of treatment.
Your HGB drop is fairly typical,and not too bad.
I went down to 7.6-danger zone, and had extra procrit plus and two weeks of no RBV.
It's my understanding that log drop is used only in relationship to viral load. Doctors (and the wicked insurance companies and HMOs) use it to measure your response to the medication.
Under standard 48 week treatment protocols (types 1A and 1B)Most doctors are looking for at least a 2-log drop after 12 weeks of treatment and the virus undetectible after 24 weeks.
Log drops are measured by moving the decimal point to the left. For instance, if you had a starting viral load of 2,500,000 a one place decimal point (1 log) move would bring it to 250,000. A two-log drop would bring it to 25,000 and the coveted 3-log drop would bring your viral load to 2,500.
Under standard 48 week treatment protocols (types 1A and 1B)Most doctors are looking for at least a 2-log drop after 12 weeks of treatment and the virus undetectible after 24 weeks.
Log drops are measured by moving the decimal point to the left. For instance, if you had a starting viral load of 2,500,000 a one place decimal point (1 log) move would bring it to 250,000. A two-log drop would bring it to 25,000 and the coveted 3-log drop would bring your viral load to 2,500.
OHHHHHHHHHHH! Thanks that helped alot. I was just a little confused I guess. I am so still learning alot. Well I will not know my drop in viral load until week 12. That is when doc said he would test. So, 2 more months.
I will sign off for now, or I will not get my walk in this morning. At the rate the wind in starting to blow, I may not have to walk it will just blow me around. Will check in later.
cajun
I will sign off for now, or I will not get my walk in this morning. At the rate the wind in starting to blow, I may not have to walk it will just blow me around. Will check in later.
cajun
Good Sunday morn to everyone. Just wanted to drop in and say hi! It's a good PJ day today, expecting storms, fog is really bad here on the coast today, therefore makes for a good slug day! Did shot # 20/48 last night, crashed and burned early (9:15pm) and did not get up untill 8:am. Fixing to go take another nap before gotta go run errands for brother and get him some groceries.
Looking forward to Rocks Sunday prayer!
Wishing few sides to all......fisheress
Looking forward to Rocks Sunday prayer!
Wishing few sides to all......fisheress
There seems to be a bit of confusion on this. Hopefully this will help someone.
A log - short for logarithm - is like the oposite of an exponent, or 'power'. The log value we use to express viral load reduction is base 10 - since we use decimal numbers. 10 to the third power is 10X10X10 or 1,000 and applying a 2 log drop to 1,000 would be 1,000 (divided by 10)(divided by 10) = 10. The easy way to do the math is to drop one zero at a time.
Note that this is a non-linear scale, the first log drop represents a larger reduction than the second, and so on.
From <a href="http://www.gmhc.org/health/glossary3.html">here</a>:
Log (Logarithm): formally, the number of times ten must be multiplied with itself to equal a certain number. For example, log 5 is 100,000 (10 x 10 x 10 x 10 x 10). VIRAL LOAD is often reported in terms of log. In addition, logs are used to measure changes in viral load. For example, a reduction in viral load from 100,000 to 1,000 copies/ml is a 2.0 log (or 99 percent) reduction (100,000 divided by 100 [2.0 log or 10 x 10] equals 1,000). Note that while a one log reduction is a ten-fold difference, a half log change is not a five-fold difference, rather a change of 3.16-fold (the square root of ten) because 100.5 or 101⁄2 = 3.16.
Definitions:
Log Drop (noun)
1. Logarithmic reduction used in calculating viral reductions. Each log drop represents a ten-fold reduction in viral density or load.
2. In movement of the bowels, a segmentation of the eliminated fecal material. Each log drop is often followed by a reactive splash, generally centered on the sphinctal area.
Log Drop (verb)
1. A reduction in volume by one log. (See noun 1 & 2).
A log - short for logarithm - is like the oposite of an exponent, or 'power'. The log value we use to express viral load reduction is base 10 - since we use decimal numbers. 10 to the third power is 10X10X10 or 1,000 and applying a 2 log drop to 1,000 would be 1,000 (divided by 10)(divided by 10) = 10. The easy way to do the math is to drop one zero at a time.
Note that this is a non-linear scale, the first log drop represents a larger reduction than the second, and so on.
From <a href="http://www.gmhc.org/health/glossary3.html">here</a>:
Log (Logarithm): formally, the number of times ten must be multiplied with itself to equal a certain number. For example, log 5 is 100,000 (10 x 10 x 10 x 10 x 10). VIRAL LOAD is often reported in terms of log. In addition, logs are used to measure changes in viral load. For example, a reduction in viral load from 100,000 to 1,000 copies/ml is a 2.0 log (or 99 percent) reduction (100,000 divided by 100 [2.0 log or 10 x 10] equals 1,000). Note that while a one log reduction is a ten-fold difference, a half log change is not a five-fold difference, rather a change of 3.16-fold (the square root of ten) because 100.5 or 101⁄2 = 3.16.
Definitions:
Log Drop (noun)
1. Logarithmic reduction used in calculating viral reductions. Each log drop represents a ten-fold reduction in viral density or load.
2. In movement of the bowels, a segmentation of the eliminated fecal material. Each log drop is often followed by a reactive splash, generally centered on the sphinctal area.
Log Drop (verb)
1. A reduction in volume by one log. (See noun 1 & 2).
Shot 4 tonite for you ,how time flies!Sorry for ranting on the anemia issues it's just something of concern.Today going to be a good day and I hope all goes well for yoy!
Dyce
Dyce
Nice ,thanks for the prayer.Hank Snow is some good vintage country.I've listened to it him many times!I'm ready for football sunday.C.Ya
Dyce
Dyce
Hope you got it now....you had a three point drop on the hgb - log drop is explainned above perfectly.
I remember when I had no clue either what any of it meant and it's so simple but not until SOMEONE EXPLAINS IT IN ENGLISH!
You are coming along fabulously in the knowledge department - why it seems like you JUST started and look at all you know already!
GOOF - are you on week 18 or 19? I am confused and can't remember what week I am on (think I just did 18) and I know you are one week before me.
I remember when I had no clue either what any of it meant and it's so simple but not until SOMEONE EXPLAINS IT IN ENGLISH!
You are coming along fabulously in the knowledge department - why it seems like you JUST started and look at all you know already!
GOOF - are you on week 18 or 19? I am confused and can't remember what week I am on (think I just did 18) and I know you are one week before me.
Hello from sunny snowy Michigan,
Jumping the thread here BUT....I got some great news Friday when the nurse called to say my 24 week Heptimax came back "undetectable"! (>5IU/ml) I am male, 53, infected for 20-30 yrs, geno 1a, pre Tx VL was 1,140,000 IU/ml.
I do have questions about the second "half" of Tx and beyond: Is there a good reason to have another PCR at week 36? I know I will probably be having one at 48 weeks and again 24 weeks post-Tx. Also, is there any data (or general consensus) for type 1a people ultimately achieving SVR with 48 weeks of Tx when found undetectable at the 24 week point of Tx? I just started week 26 of 48. I welcome your feedback/observations.
For me the intensity of sides has wavered through the 25 weeks. Recent challenges include dry skin on my face which is often cracked and painful around the corners of my mouth and just outside my left eye. The skin to the sides of my nose is red and flaking sometimes as well. The body aches come on like clockwork now, about 18 hours after the Peg injection; the worst part usually lasts a day or two. I'm getting used to this part I think. The emotional stuff is less predictable but still manageable, or so it seems to me ;-) - Lee
Jumping the thread here BUT....I got some great news Friday when the nurse called to say my 24 week Heptimax came back "undetectable"! (>5IU/ml) I am male, 53, infected for 20-30 yrs, geno 1a, pre Tx VL was 1,140,000 IU/ml.
I do have questions about the second "half" of Tx and beyond: Is there a good reason to have another PCR at week 36? I know I will probably be having one at 48 weeks and again 24 weeks post-Tx. Also, is there any data (or general consensus) for type 1a people ultimately achieving SVR with 48 weeks of Tx when found undetectable at the 24 week point of Tx? I just started week 26 of 48. I welcome your feedback/observations.
For me the intensity of sides has wavered through the 25 weeks. Recent challenges include dry skin on my face which is often cracked and painful around the corners of my mouth and just outside my left eye. The skin to the sides of my nose is red and flaking sometimes as well. The body aches come on like clockwork now, about 18 hours after the Peg injection; the worst part usually lasts a day or two. I'm getting used to this part I think. The emotional stuff is less predictable but still manageable, or so it seems to me ;-) - Lee
Thanks to all, I get it now. It's 3PM here where I live and there has been only 2 threads opened today. I'm going to open another so we don't lose it,
BB if it's not to late.
BB if it's not to late.
I just tried and it's already to late. So today we only have 2 threads, we need to post threads early or we lose them. Well, tomorrow is another day.
Hope all is well,
BB
Hope all is well,
BB
How are you feeling?That getting anemic is scary stuff Beagel.On the next Doc appointment,I really going to question the liver Doc. about hemaglobin drop and starting the anemia drugs.Same goes for whiteblood count with weekly cbc test.As far as Cajuns case,thats way to far tetween cbc test especially with her hmgb. already falling!This cbc is nothing to play with.Hope everyone are WELL and good morning!
Dyce
Dyce
Congratulations!!! That's great news for you! And it helps us other geno 1's keep sluggin away. Thank You!
Ihad the dryness and cracks around the mouth in my 2nd month of tx but it suddenly cleared up there. Hope your sx are mild.
Don
Ihad the dryness and cracks around the mouth in my 2nd month of tx but it suddenly cleared up there. Hope your sx are mild.
Don
I've had the problem around my left eye twice. Each time, I smeered on some Aquaphor ointment with a q-tip at bedtime, and I was good to go the next day. It may have taken 2 applications one time.
Congrats on the non-detect. Nice feeling, huh?
Congrats on the non-detect. Nice feeling, huh?
Hi everyone. This is off-topic but i was wondering if someone could tell me if i should be concerned with my viral load number? Was wondering how important a role it plays in SVR. I'm starting treatment next monday. 1b, Stage 2/Grade 1...My viral load is 10 million and it just seems higher than most i see. So. I was wondering if anyone could tell me how important that number is. Thanks in advance and be well. tracy
So much about us being "paranoid" about opening threads.
I guess either somebody doesn't understand once you CLICK "Post" if you don't...........you've already USED UP THAT POST FOR THE DAY and once all 6 clicks on post are used up...they allow no more.
So if you click it use it please.
I'd rather think it's not our idiot junior kindergartners back in action...but.......
I guess either somebody doesn't understand once you CLICK "Post" if you don't...........you've already USED UP THAT POST FOR THE DAY and once all 6 clicks on post are used up...they allow no more.
So if you click it use it please.
I'd rather think it's not our idiot junior kindergartners back in action...but.......
I think your statement is a good reminder to be posted somewhat often because of new folks who don't know about it. I felt so guilty the first time someone explained how that happens. I had opened a couple of the "post a question" s and chickened out when I first visited the site. I've never make that mistake again but it took someone on the board making mention of it. Please hold the tomatoes....I'm sorrry. :)
Hey Lady,
I'm not exactly sure how much real relevance it has. The viral load can sometimes be pretty sporadic going up and down. I have yet to find any concrete statements(could be wrong) that the VL is relative to liver damage either.
This I can tell you. I started treatment with a VL 5mos prior of 18.7 million. My 12wk pcr was 291,000. So don't look at a high VL as additional time needed to clear. Some people w/high VL seem to hit undetectable just as quick as others with much lower VLs.. So many frikkin variables. I was told by my dr, and a few others not to be to concerned with the VL #s as much as with the LACK of a VL. That's the thing ya want. I'm pretty sure some people have tx successfully with VL a lot higher than mine.
I believe it was Cuteus who put it in perspective for me when I got back my 12wk. It didn't matter so much how many buggers I killed, the point is there were still some there. Whatever it takes it'll take.
Hope your well,
Don
I'm not exactly sure how much real relevance it has. The viral load can sometimes be pretty sporadic going up and down. I have yet to find any concrete statements(could be wrong) that the VL is relative to liver damage either.
This I can tell you. I started treatment with a VL 5mos prior of 18.7 million. My 12wk pcr was 291,000. So don't look at a high VL as additional time needed to clear. Some people w/high VL seem to hit undetectable just as quick as others with much lower VLs.. So many frikkin variables. I was told by my dr, and a few others not to be to concerned with the VL #s as much as with the LACK of a VL. That's the thing ya want. I'm pretty sure some people have tx successfully with VL a lot higher than mine.
I believe it was Cuteus who put it in perspective for me when I got back my 12wk. It didn't matter so much how many buggers I killed, the point is there were still some there. Whatever it takes it'll take.
Hope your well,
Don
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the Hepatitis C Community
Learn about this treatable virus.
Getting tested for this viral infection.
3 key steps to getting on treatment.
4 steps to getting on therapy.
What you need to know about Hep C drugs.
How the drugs might affect you.
These tips may up your chances of a cure.
A list of national and international resources and hotlines to help connect you to needed health and medical services.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Condoms are the most effective way to prevent HIV and STDs.
PrEP is used by people with high risk to prevent HIV infection.
