Alcohol question with Hep C

[R3179]

How bad could a few beers be every now and then? I'm not talking pounding them back every night and getting wasted, I'm talking a few at the poker table 1 weekend, few at the bar with some friends playing darts a few weekends later. I'm 27 years old, I was never a heavy drinker before I found out I tested antibodies to HCV. I play poker every Friday night and always had a few at the table. I never abused alcohol, never passed out drunk from it and always kept my cool.

Some days I want to come home and grab a beer after a hard day at work and relax on the couch for a few. I'm an active person, I jog/walk just about every night. Before I found out I even had Hep C, I was always taking Milk Thistle, I take a mineral Vitamin everyday, always drank 60-70 ounces of water a day.

My previous blood tests were all normal, and this past week I seen the Hepatologist who sent me in for more blood work to determine my VL and Genotype, also had an Ultrasound done.

Since I've found out I've had it I've stayed clear of the beer and just kept on doing what I've been doing everyday. I'm not a drug addict, never even touched a drug in my life, never smoked cigarretts. I have no symptoms of Hep C and I feel completley fine. I still have a great appetitte, no problems sleeping, still active with whatever I do, my only issue now is having Hep C is constantly on my mind and I just can't clear that from my head. I've just been stressed over it and crave to have that beer to ease some tension.

I'm 99.9% sure I caught Hep C from a Tattoo party I went to 2 years ago.

[R3179]

Continued....

That's the only thing I can think of of ever getting it. I asked my parents about ever having a blood transfusion and they said never. I've been with the same girl for over 2 years and I also have a son from a previous relationship years back.

It just blows my mind to ever think...Why me?

[Kalio1]

What did your doctor tell you? Didn't he tell you not to drink alcohol?
Alcohol is like jet fuel to the virus and accelerates replication and damage to your liver.

[R3179]

He actually didn't say much to me about it, he knows I was never a huge binge drinker.

He told me he had a few patients who were alcoholics with Hep C and they wouldn't quit and yes, they damaged themselves. That's why I'm asking, would a few beers a month hurt in the same way as a person with Hep c who drinks 8 beers a night 6 days out of the week?

[sass_blue]

My GP told me that having the occasional drink ie on a week was much better thank binge drinking..(drinking a bottle of wine).  For the last couple of years I have not drank at all.   I find that if I do I feel hung over for at least a week.  I also find that it increases the symptoms of the virus..tiredness, hives, aching joints and most of all headaches!  My specialist told be that drinking any alcohol when you have hep c is like 'throwing fuel onto a fire'.  It is bloody hard though...I am in my late thirties and at social occasions feel like a bit of an outcast..people can say "you can still have fun if you dont drink alcohol"....not so easy if everyone in the room is pissed!!  Whether you drink or not is entirely up to you...I would say if you are going to drink keep it in moderation..

[settecasi1]

R3179,

I am 52 years old and used to be about the same kind of drinker you are (were). I would never have one at home unless I had  visitors. In short a true social drinker. Out to dinner or parties only. An occational happy hour jaunt. I enjoyed it so so much, being told to stop had me asking the very same questions you posted here to all my Doctors and got the same, fuel into the fire answers.
With me, a few weeks after the completion of my first TX I celeberated with three beers and my joints went so bad I could hardly function for weeks after. I did not associate it with the beer until after the third time I had three beers. These sessions were a month or so apart each. It's over!  
Recently divorced, I get out once a month or so and I tell you having several Cokes at a bar gets real, real old. So, I will have one to three N/A beers in one sitting. But VERY rarley and never more than three. I never feel it or get bad SX (joint pain)from them. I'm not sure a Doc would approve so I do not ask. I'm sure we will hear the facts on N/A beer in replies here soon though.

We have a life threatening illness. A priority adjustment should be easy as pie.

[Kalio1]

You have a disease, your disease is made worse by drinking alcohol. Choosing to drink alcohol in any amount in spite of knowing it worsens your disease seems stupid to me.

It seems a simple choice to me.

[chcnme]

Don't drink anymore. Put it down for good.  You aren't an alcoholic (or could you be?) If you aren't an alcoholic then you should have no problem with the thoughts of stopping it for good once you learn that drinking alcohol with Hep C is like pouring gasoline on yourself and playing with kitchen matches.  Eventually, you will ignite. Put the booze down -- all of it.

Happy Thanksgiving.  (I bet you had a beer or two or three, eh?)  Tomorrow is another day :)

[jboyhk]

It is a serious question.

Point me to a serious research study that supports your claim.

I personally would cut down on alcohol but have not seen any scientific data saying light drinking causes more damage.

We have been through this argument many times and all the studies you post have major flaws.

Smoking is a major risk for lung cancer. That does not mean that smoking will cause lung cancer.

People can choose to live in plastic bubbles and wear flu masks like Michael Jackson or make risk/reward judgements based on what they want their lifestyle to be.

[Kalio1]

I think N/A  beer has no moe alcohol in it than swishing your mouth with mouthwash. I wouldn't sweat the N/A beers.

I agree with you, it should be easy as pie to make the choice. If you are thirsty, there are a zillion options to quench your thirst other than booze.

You can have just as much fun, they only problem is everyone else is drinking and they don't realize how dunb (and loud)they act!

Hope you are having a nice Holiday.

Mine's just about ready now!

[R3179]

No, I have not touched a beer in almost 2 months. Once I was told I stopped that day. I had no problem stopping, but some days after a bad or too busy of a day I'd like to kick back and enjoy one.

I just wanted to hear what other people had to say about the subject. Some people still seem to drink heavy with HCV, I chose to stop once I heard, so I wouldn't consider myself addicted or an alcoholic. I just wanted to know if that one or 2 every once in awhile is that bad of an idea, it seems like it so I won't bother.

[Kalio1]

Anyone who needs "serious scientific evidence" or they will continue to drink is in denial if you ask me. Chcnme has it right, he nailed the point. If you don't have a drinking problem, it's a no brainer. If you do, then you will look high and low to find excuses to continue to drink in some amount, any amount so you can still drink. All drinkers who can't bear the thought of not being able to drink act the same way. Not being able to deal with not drinking is the definition of problem drinking. Studies show alcohol feeds and accelerates replication of the virus AND increases inflammation. What more proof do you need?


Alcohol and hep do not mix.

[Morgaina]

Jeez, I know how you feel. I found out about my hepc about 14 yrs. ago. I never really understood the danger of it all and although I went through a couple periods (break-up etc.) where I drank more than normal, I wasn't a big drinker. I've had 3 bx. No change between 1st and 2nd but 3rd was a big change to stage 3. Now that I understand this disease better, I have to say that drinking had to be a large part of the progression. I never felt as if it was any big thing earlier. I couldn't see it, feel it or take ownership of it. It just wasn't real! Try and feel it in your body and know it's trying hard to hurt you. Drinking will comprimise your defences! Take care, all the best to you. Hang around, you'll find support!

[Morgaina]

Good one Rev, you just dont change tracks easy do you?!?

[jboyhk]

So asking for studies is considered denial?

Not everyone is an alcoholic as you assume them to be. Some people like to have a beer or 2 on the weekend. Those people do exist and for you to preach with no scientific evidence is denial of giving people the right to enjoy life.

Show me the money and I shall be quiet.

[moveabove]

To bad we all couln't have a big thanks giving dinner together. I bet it would have been one of world histories momentous gatherings and incredably satisfing.  Maybe next year.  Goodnight

[moveabove]

INCREDIBLY

[Morgaina]

Hey girl, read your post down there, you're all full of fire again, good to see!! Rev does tend to stoke those fires. You take care.....D

[chcnme]

Hi R.  I wanted to mention one more thing - about your good physical health, working out, being healthy, feeling OK, no cigs, no history of drugs, etc., (those are all very much on your side.)  You've been diagnosed young.  I'm sorry you were, but if you had to find out about it, I'm glad you found out earlier rather than later.  I found out a little over three years ago I have Hep C. I'm 47. I contracted this virus over 30 years ago.  I'm pretty sure had I not put the booze down decades ago I would either be on a TP list by now or dead.  I just hope you will understand the seriousness of drinking with Hep C - no matter how good you feel now and no matter how you can handle the beer now, there will come the day you can't handle it if you've got Hep C. I've got some friends in their 40's and 50's who have recently learned they have this virus.  How did they learn?  They started feeling sick as sh**.  Drinking for them became a chore. They talked about how awful they felt (they had never felt awful after drinking), and they wondered why.  Now they know why.  So remember, one day it won't be fun anymore.  Stop now.  Drink NA.  Yeah! Play drunk! I know a lot of ex-drunks who play drunk with NAs :)  And NAs will not hurt you.  Hell, you can drink a 6 pack of that **** (probably a 12 pack) and be just fine as far as your liver. Your friends, no doubt, are going to start giving you grief for not drinking, so start thinking how you're going handle it.  

Wishing you the best.  Let us know how things are going.  

[R3179]

Is it possible of clearing the disease when antibodies show up? My hep DR said antibodies in HCV don't clear the virus. Do all Elisa tests show antibodies?

Does it mean I have a good immune system if I have not had a cold in almost 2 years?

[Kalio1]

no, not everyone is an alcoholic but anyone who continues to demand "proof" it will hurt them, when studies show alcohol causes the virus to accelerate is trying to justify their behavior and can't seem to just pass on booze. That in and of itself is a problem. Anyone so overly defensive about it ( you always post on alcohol threads saying this same thing) gimme proof it will hurt me! When there is plenty of proof it acts like fuel to the Hep C fire seems to have an issue with alcohol. Stopping should be easy and alcohol unappealing knowing it can increase the virus and the problems accelerating the virus creates. There is plenty of "scientific proof" that alcohol accelerates the virus and increases the damage the virus causes as I am sure you are aware.

[northstar]

I have been feeling alot bettter these days. I still have not reached the point I was prior to tx. Very arthritic these days, very painful. I took the advice I read here a couple of weeks ago and purchased some cosimin ds I will give a few weeks before I pass judgment. anything is worth a try.
good to hear from you. How have you been feeling these days? You sound great!

[Kalio1]

A "friend" that gives you grief because you stopped drinking isn't a friend!

[chcnme]

Kalio!  Please, come on now!  What's this "friends" don't give friends grief stuff?  Yes they do.  Buddies who go to the bar and toss darts and shoot pool and drink beer together are going to give another drinking buddy a ration of sh** if they say "I'm not drinking tonight"  (and it'll be his best friends who do.)  Quitting drinking on account of a diagnosis of Hep C and thinking about how you're going to tell your friends you no longer drink is very important when it comes to stopping drinking.

[Morgaina]

I'm doing good, but also having lots of skin issues and pain in joints and muscles. But hell, my mind is clear (could be greatly helped with the meds I take) but I dont care, I really do feel better than I have in a long time, long, long time. If I am still clear at my 6 mo PCR (Dec 24) I'll learn how to do cartwheels again! Peace to you girl....Diane

[chcnme]

Kalio - I didn't mean that to sound short or ugly (sorry if it came across that way.)  I just know if it were my son in R's shoes  (who's 25 and who drinks but who's not an alcoholic but sure enjoys his nights out with buddies every few weeks and his beers at football games), he would be getting an absolute ration of sh** from his BEST buddies  (and it would be those buddies who would stand by him with his diagnosis of Hep C, too.)  Just concerned about that for R.  

Hope you had a Happy T-Day  :)   I'm tired. Sorry again if I sounded crappy.

[chcnme]

If you're interested in what alcohol and Hep C do together, here's some reading for you.  

SOURCE
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh25-4/245-254.htm

Infection with the hepatitis C virus (HCV) has become a leading cause of scarring of the liver (i.e., fibrosis) and cirrhosis in the United States. HCV-related cirrhosis (with its associated complications, such as liver cancer) is a major cause of death, although it develops slowly and occurs only in approximately one-third of HCV-infected patients. Alcohol can exacerbate HCV infection and the associated liver damage by causing oxidative stress and promoting fibrosis, thereby accelerating disease progression to cirrhosis. Furthermore, alcohol may exacerbate the side-effects associated with current antiviral treatment of HCV infection and impair the body's immune defense against the virus. Of the HCV-infected people who do not consume alcohol, only a minority progresses to severe liver disease and requires antiviral treatment. Because alcohol potentiates the fibrosis- and cancer-inducing actions of HCV, alcoholics are particularly vulnerable to HCV infection and most in need of treatment. Key words: hepatitis C virus; chronic AODE (effects of alcohol or other drug use, abuse, and dependence); disease course; ethanol metabolism disorder; oxidative stress; fibrosis; hepatocyte; carcinoma; anti-infective agents; interferon; antioxidants; patient compliance

(Continued)
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh25-4/245-254.htm


SOURCE:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/495215

Alcohol Potentiates HCV Replicon Expression
There is evidence that alcohol accelerates the development and progression of liver disease in patients who have concomitant hepatitis C. Alcohol promotes the replication of HCV in a dose-dependent fashion. Patients who have chronic hepatitis C and continue to drink alcohol during therapy are much less likely to respond to interferon-based therapies. At a molecular level, there is evidence that the promotion of HCV replication by alcohol is mediated at least in part by the nuclear receptor nuclear factor kappaB.[1]

(Continued)
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/495215

[jboyhk]

If Mayo Clinic decided that life begins at conception would you agree that abortion is murder?

Rev is an arrogant whiner who cries when he people don't agree

[chcnme]

LMAO I think I'm beginning to see that.  (Just kidding Jboy.) No, not really.  But anyhow, I love reading everyone's stuff.  Have had some good laughs this past hour just reading.  (Some da** good laughs.)

[Kalio1]

Pressuring you to drink is about THEIR drinking issue, not yours. A real friend cares about you and honors your choices. If a "friend" is giving him a hard time, that is because they need you to drink with them to make THEM feel better about drinking. Peer pressure to engage in destructive behavior can be countered easily, just order a soda water and lime. At 25 I'd think you'd be past the stage where your friends have that kind of influence on you..


I didn't think you sounded "harsh" or anything, no worries.
Hope you enjoyed your Holiday, I'm stuffed!

[chcnme]

Hi R, finding "antibodies" means the person has been exposed to Hep C virus at some point in their life and may (or may not) go on to have a chronic infection  (i.e. long term infection, they didn't clear it, they still have it, it's replicating and doing damage now.)  I'm assuming your doctor has confirmed the presence of a chronic infection in you by doing a "PCR" test  (which will tell him how much Hep C virus is circulating in your blood.)  Make sure you ask him (so you know if you do or don't have Chronic Hep C)  if he has done a PCR test on you, and ask him if there is any way you could clear this virus on your own at this point.

If you are fighting Hep C, your immune system is kicked in "good".  I haven't had a cold or a fever in over 25 years or more.  I have read that immune systems that are fighting Hep C can be "super charged", so to speak, and can fight off colds effectively  (perhaps more effectively).   See?  Good things can come from this sh** :)  Your "no colds" might not have a thing to do with your immune system being "good" (or better on account of Hep C) but it could.    

[beamishboy]

it's ruling principle was to win at debate and not necessarily seek the truth....But, labeling another a sophist as rejoinder ,is also a form of sophistry-in that,you are not seeking truth merely denouncing your opponent.....now i suggest we all raise our mugs of hemlock tea in solidarity-CHEERS!!!

[Forseegood]

Beamie! was that sophistry? or that ole Socratic irony? I've dealt with both and for that I'm sorry...but I got my hemlock right here and I am toasting you too! Me and the other two Wierd Sisters...Hope you had a nice thanksgiving, did the hounds get to eat?

[cuteus]

if you want more than opinions in forum you can do a web search of "moderate drinking with hep c" and you will get the studies that specify how much drinking and its grading was recorded on the trial subjects.  You might also get results of several hepatologists opinions on the matter.  Gather everything read, put it into perspective and decide what the risks might be of one beer in a blue moon, while hep c positive.  This has to be considered within the fact of how much liver damage you have sustained.  Anything above stage two, the risk for trouble can be higher.  Stage 0 or 1, probably not much risk, if not abusing alcohol.  The studies out there state that the damage was related to the amount of  alcohol cosumed.