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Alcohol with treatment
by ellissg, Mar 15, 2004 12:00AM
The studies seem to concentrate on alcohol usage without treatment. Is there anything out there that defines moderate use during treatment?
I'm 2b on week 9 of 24, 800 mg Rebetol, and .05 of Per-intron weekly. My enzyme levels are coming down nicely, Bilirubin down to 1.2, viral load to be checked next month. I have a few drinks on the weekends, and if thats going to kill me, then I won't be posting here after that.
I'm 2b on week 9 of 24, 800 mg Rebetol, and .05 of Per-intron weekly. My enzyme levels are coming down nicely, Bilirubin down to 1.2, viral load to be checked next month. I have a few drinks on the weekends, and if thats going to kill me, then I won't be posting here after that.
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Treatment works to eliminate replication of the virus.
There is no known safe amount of alcohol for someone with hepatitis C, before treatment or after a successful course of treatment although, some doctors doubt that a glass of champagne at a wedding once or twice per year will cause a problem. That would be a moderate amount for someone with hepatitis C.
A moderate amount during treatment for hepatitis C is zero.
Alcohol is a proven liver antagonist for anyone independent of a viral infection. If you have any damage to your liver, a histological improvement is less likely if you use/abuse alcohol. (Ditto for smoking, by the way)
Few specialists will treat someone knowing that they are using alcohol, and fewer insurance companies will pay for it if they know you are working against the treatment. Is your doctor aware of your alcohol use? If so, you might ask him/her what s/he recommends for alcohol use during treatment.
If you cannot stop drinking, here is a resource that might help you to find some insight and help:
<a href="http://www.soberrecovery.com">online resource: recovery programs</a>
I hope this helps,
thanbey
In the US (and I am assuming the UK), 30% of hep B cases occur with no "known" exposure at all.
And you mentioned being monogamous and not an iv drug user--great! But there is also a risk of exposure from health care workers (who may not follow your example). The risk of HepB transmission during invasive procedures and dental work is well known.
I hope you don't think I am arguing with you--I, like so many others, don't agree with vaccinating a 1 day old newborn. But the risk of contracting hepA and B is very real, and could be deadly to someone with hepC. I think for someone with hepC, the risk of not vaccinating far outweighs the known risks of vaccinating. HepB vaccinations have been ongoing for 20 years or more.
Again, your choice, your body. But you did ask how else you could get hepB. I was shocked that the number of cases without an identifiable exposure was so high.
My Doctor won't do a biopsy...........I'm on Coumadin and he is a "risk-reward" kind of a guy. Therefore, I don't know the extent of liver damage. I wish I did! It might make it easier to stay off the booze if I knew there was serious damage already. I have no symtoms. It's not enlarged, the GGT has gone from 98 to 83; ALT 150 TO 66; AST 92 TO 52; BILIRUBIN 1.6 TO 1.2. I started out with a Viral load of 5.2 mil, and they won't take that again until the 12 week mark, April 15th.
If you can't have a biopsy, you might want to checkout <A href="http://www.prometheuslabs.com/212j.asp?nav=products"> FibroSpect</a>: it is an alternative to biopsy that can tell you whether you have mild/moderate scarring or Severe scarring/cirrhosis.
G
---------------------------------------------
Light and Moderate Alcohol Intake May Have Minimal or No Effect on Fibrosis Development in HCV Infection
Heavy alcohol use contributes to liver disease in chronic hepatitis C virus (HCV) infection. Whether this is true for light or moderate alcohol use has not been shown.
Heavy alcohol consumption has been found in many studies to contribute to the progression of HCV-related liver disease. Patients with HCV are generally counseled by their physicians to abstain from drinking alcohol, despite the fact that light alcohol intake, which most patients practice, has not been shown to lead to worse liver disease.
Additionally, there is increasing evidence that light alcohol consumption produces significant health benefits. As such, researchers in the Department of Gastroenterology, University of California at San Francisco, San Francisco, CA sought to address how deleterious different amounts of alcohol intake are to patients with chronic HCV.
In this study, 800 patients with HCV undergoing liver biopsy at three sites had detailed alcohol histories recorded and the relationship between alcohol and hepatic fibrosis was assessed.
On univariate analysis, heavy alcohol use (>50 g/day) was associated with an increase in mean fibrosis (P = .01). Such an association could not be demonstrated for light and moderate alcohol use.
For each category of alcohol intake (none, light, moderate, and heavy), a spectrum of fibrosis was observed.
On multivariate analysis, age, serum alanine aminotransferase (ALT), and histological inflammation were the independent predictors of fibrosis (P = <.0001, .0003, <.0001, respectively).
In conclusion, write the authors, “Heavy alcohol use exerts a greater effect on fibrosis than light or moderate use. There is a range of fibrosis at each level of alcohol use. Age, serum ALT, and inflammation are independently associated with fibrosis in multivariate analysis, highlighting the fact that variables other than alcohol intake predominate in the production of hepatic fibrosis.”
I have yet to see a study that tested "mild to moderate" alcohol use during tx. All the ones I have seen over the years I have researched have been about "alcohol abuse" using unreal amounts compared to what most of us would use. They all showed that it was bad. So....there is no real evidence for what you seek.
BUT...There IS some common sense stuff to think about. I agree totally with all that Thanby has posted here. You say you are lookin for some reason to not drink on tx? OK....here we go....
First off, lets start with why you're doing tx. You MUST have some REALLY good reason that pushed you to do this. Keep that in mind.... Not everyone is successful at this stuff. They do not really know exactly why some fail and some don't. It makes sense that one would want to do ALL they can to beat The Dragon. We all know that alcohol can be bad for the liver.....with or without Hcv. Makes sense to me that it would be kinda insane to add that fuel to the fire if you're trying to beat The Dragon.
IF you fail at this then 2 things happen.....You have just lost your BEST chance at beating this thing....AND You will ALWAYS wonder if YOU are the cause if you drank. That equals Depression and "Pissoffidness"(not a word) at yourself. You will live through the aftermath never knowing if YOU screwed this up or not.
IF you do fail at your first attempt your odds are NOT good for clearing this on the second attempt. They go WAYyyyy down for the subsequent attempts.
PLUS....how do yu feel right now? Feelin all "great and perky"? Hahahahahaha I bet NOT. Do ya really want to take the chance that you have to go through all this AGAIN?....For a LONGER time??? I would bet NOT.
Then there are the sides. These sides CAN accumulate and become permanent for some. The longer you are on this stuff the worse it gets. Want to take that chance?
And all for what??....a few beers after work?? Is that really worth it? Just what is important here?
You want to kill the Dragon? HE doesn't get loaded and lay back. When you get high on alcohol and lay back......HE just gets REAL busy.....laughin all the way. He has help.....from YOU!
I was quite the drinker before I was diagnosed. I quit before I started tx. I CLEARED as a type 1b. I think my not drinking helped in that.
No....the al;cohol will not kill you on tx.....but it might let the Dragon kill you....in the end. Sit back and THINK about it.
Best of luck................
As for the alcohol, I really do believe speed of replication depends on many things and alcohol is just one of them. Also, for me, it is a quality of life thing. While I agree with Indiana about giving up during tx (which I did) it seems to me that being able to have drink, while not good for your liver, may be good for your soul! To live the next thirty years without having wine with a meal would be very dull. I took the interferon in order to avoid such a prospect.
Tony
locojo
Yep, you're right. Alot of social occasions down here in Cajun country do revolve around drinking. Hate to say it's a part of the culture, but it is, and it is not hard to immerse oneself into that lifestyle...the poker runs...crawfish boils..outdoor music fests...etc..etc..
Alot of business actually takes place in bars around here. Not to mention hanging around commercial divers - a crazy bunch to begin with. Use to be that if you could hang with the boys partying, then you were "fit" to work offshore with them. Party hard...work hard. Part of it most probably has to do with being offshore for 30 days at a stretch, coming in after not having had a drink, then partying you ass off when back on the "beach". Needless to say, having lived here for 12 years, dealing with the offshore industry, seems that alot of people do drink alot.
Having said all of that, however, and not to get moralistic, having a life-threatening disease that is aggrevated by drinking alcohol was enough for me to stop. And I did. Abruptly. It really was not hard. Read enough studies to support that idea. I have to confess that did "cheat", though, and did have a couple of beers during TX, but the treatment itself made beer, or anything for that matter, taste like ****! The doc did say that a couple on the very odd occasion were OK, but it really made me feel worse than the treatment. So that was it.
In any case, it is your bldy you are messing with and a hell of an expensive treatment plan, I would think, to mess with mixing any of that with drinking.
Just my own two cents worth for whatever that's worth these days.
I hope I conquer this **** and can enjoy a glass again some day. Normal would feel SO wonderful. Time will tell. I agree with britgirl on the QOL issue. Of course, degree of liver damage is a big factor. Hope you all have a peaceful evening.
ambush :)
Thanks, and have a great day!
We may not see her now for awhile. If she comes back in here all calm and collected, we'll know she found her way there.
Perhaps there will be a video....."Chevy Gone Wild"!!!....or....."Whiskers on The WaterFront"!!
locojo
As always, you do have a unique perspective on things.
I missed that part, and upon reading her response back...yep...it was constructive critism...and actually...kinda funny. I did fail to mention the more pleasurable things to do......after a night on the town, of course....
Anyway, I am back to lurking....
BTW....will finally get the six month post tx test done next week - eight months post tx. Thought it was an automatic appointment....waited for them to call...time went by...procrastinated...finally called the doc and scheduled the test. Keeping all fingers and toes crossed.
All the best to you as well....
OK...now back to lurking
Long time!
Wow! Time does fly. How are you enjoying post tx life. Nice to be back among the living, ey!
Yep...next week is a biggie, indeed. I go on Tuesday. Suppose it takes about a week to ten days to get results back. I feel pretty confident, since I remember how I felt before TX. Feeling pretty spunky these days.
Let's keep each other posted.
No Safe Alcohol Levels if You're Infected
By Jeanie Lerche Davis
WebMD Medical News
Reviewed By Michael Smith, MD
on Friday, March 12, 2004
March 12, 2004 -- For people with hepatitis C, there may be no safe level of alcohol new research shows. While heavy drinkers have the most severe liver disease, even light or moderate drinkers put themselves at risk.
It's a word of caution, especially for middle-aged men with heart
disease. Although alcohol in small amounts provides heart
protection, this might not be true for all people.
The study appears in this month's issue of the journal Hepatology.
Many people infected with hepatitis C never develop serious liver
disease, writes researcher Alexander Monto, MD, a
gastroenterologist with the University of California at San
Francisco.
Those most likely to have severe liver problems: older people,
especially men who are heavy drinkers, and people with long-time
hepatitis C infection.
However, this group of researchers wanted to know how light and
moderate drinking affected liver disease -- given recent findings
that a drink or two a day offers some protection against heart
disease for some people.
For heart protection, no more than one drink per day for women and
no more than two drinks per day for men are advised. One drink is
equal to a 12-ounce beer or wine cooler, 5 ounces of wine, or 1.5
ounces of 80-proof liquor.
No Safe Level Alcohol
In his study, Monto asked 800 people -- all with hepatitis C
infection -- to complete a questionnaire about their drinking
habits and their medical history.
He defined "heavy drinking" as more than two drinks daily;
"moderate" meant one or two drinks daily; "light" was less than one drink daily.
As expected, heavy drinking was linked with more severe liver
problems. In fact, there was no "safe" level of drinking, reports
Monto.
47% of the heavy drinkers had serious liver problems.
Liver disease risk increased at each level of chronic drinking --
even among people having less than two drinks a day.
The damage was less than with heavy drinking, and may have minimal
or no effect -- but the chance of damage was there.
Risk for women has not been investigated much until now, Monto
notes. Women in his study did very little drinking -- with less
than 50% drinking more than four drinks a week. Monto cautions
against drawing firm conclusions on this data:
In this study, women did not seem to have any higher risk of liver
disease than men did.
Light drinking did not worsen women's liver disease. Only 12% of
women were heavy drinkers, but did not have more liver problems
than the 88% who drank less or nothing.
Among women who were heavy drinkers, there were varying levels of
liver disease.
Overall, his study shows that some people may have greater
susceptibility to alcohol's effects, Monto notes. Different
drinking patterns -- such as binge drinking rather than daily
drinking -- may play a role. Also, older people may be at greater
risk.
His results may be somewhat skewed, since each patient reported his
or her own medical history and drinking habits, he says.
SOURCES: Monto, A. Hepatology, March 2004; vol 29: pp 826-833.
WebMD Medical Reference in collaboration with The Cleveland Clinic:
"Alcohol and Your Heart."
You hit the nail on the head. Yes, I have posted this question before, and being an alcoholic, and unable to stop......(I have a few drinks, three or four nights a week-the truth be known).....I posted again in a pathetic attempt to get some justification for my stupid behavior. Thanks for your frank and honest post. I desperately need to get "slam dunked".
I will not waste space on this thread again, at least about my problem with alcohol, but I'll post after I get my 12 week results, for information only. That is 4 weeks away, and I SHALL ABSTAIN from all alcohol, and await the results of the VL test.
Many thanks to all!!! Wish me luck. I'm a pathetic and addicted old man, but I'm not a bad guy, and want to do this for my kids, Grandbabies, and my wonderful wife.
Don't go gettin all serious on us.....or we just may have to send Balrog over there and you'll have to go save a Rainforest or something.
I'm very determined to do better. Thanks for everyone's support!
Chevy Chevy Chevy You doing alright girly?
God knows, I could think of things to do besides drink to make myself feel better.
I have been clean and sober for over 18 years, drugs were my thing, but I KNOW any alcohol with Hep C or any liver disease is tempting fate at the very least.
The folks who are trying to find a way to still drink probably have a problem. I am not judging anyone, I still smoke cigarettes and I KNOW that is because I am addicted.
Be smart kids. Why not give up the booze and give your liver every chance to get better?
Chevy and Indy...you two crack me up!!!!! Ya'll always have me ROFLMASO!!!!! Can we be best buddies...please????? LOL I do wish we could all meet someday...it would be a hoot...or "HOOTERS", that one was for Chevy!!!!!!! love ya'll, Cindee