Alternative Medicines

[RayBird81]

What do you think about alternative medicines?? Have they worked for you?? What are good alternative medicines to take to support liver function??

[HARRYBEADS]

  My opinion is, be careful of the new alternative medicines that have no proof. TCM has over 5 thousand years of knowledge behind it.
  I farm wild ginseng, it takes over ten years to get the roots to the proper maturity and for them to have absorbed enough of the forests ( healing power ) to be of benefit to your health.   www.bsmginseng.com  


Harry

[fretboard]

Alternative medicine has not been studied enough, and will not clear the virus.  Depending on how bad your HepC is, you have the option to tx or the "wait and see" approach.  You can try anything on your own once you've had a biopsy.  I pm'd you about a question you had posted last month.  If you read some of the Milk Thistle sites or Chinese Herb sites they often have testimonials about different studies and usually untrue statements.  They are trying to sell their products, so stretching the truth goes hand in hand with sales of almost anything.  The bottom line is there is only one cure and it is the Riba and the Peg or SOC.  God Bless  

[nygirl7]

The only thing that will cure this disease is are the medications of interferon and ribavirin, this cocktail is currently the only FDA approved course of treatment that will get rid of the disease.  There are other medications in trial that are proving to shorten the duration and give a bit higher odds however they are not approved yet and one can only take them if they participate in the trial.

Nothing else on God's earth will cure you. That is why we all do the treatment. If there was an easy way out.......we're not crazy and we all would have gladly taken it.

PS Chinese herbs can greatly raise your liver enzyme level and cause major liver cell death - if you intend to try them you MUST be extremely careful.  But you will NOT be cured by anything like that.

[aptec]

If 'alternative' medicines worked, they'd be incorporated into the body of medical science and used as 'medicines'.  That they're 'alternative' should raise serious doubts in your mind.

[merryBe]

if there were an alternative that worked, beleieve us, we'd all have heard of it by now.
they have sold billions of herbs and not one documented SVR.  Show me the money.

as far as I can tell, the japs and chinese have been working overtime trying to find natural cures to validate chinese medicine, and still no cigars with a thousand studies and countless time and effort to prove what cannot be proven.

as far as I'm concerned, the only good alternative right now, would be a smith and wesson, colt 45 or midnight special. I would rather play roulette with that then to pin my hopes on things showing only temporary VL reductions but NO actual cures.

It's kind of akin to saying, hey, I feel better when I drink a cup of tea...no matter why, I just do...the warmth, the water, whatever it is..it makes my body feel better temporarily...but if I'm trying kill a life threatening virus, then give me the right guns to shoot at it....and leave the pea shooters for those not in a real war. Me I want to WIN this dang war....follow??

mb

[aptec]

HEPATITUS C CURED!!!  . . . well, according to this report anyway:

http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=646670

It claims a "96% Hepatitis cure rate" for patients treated at an undisclosed "experimental clinic in Georgia".

For anyone who can't be bothered reading the whole report, here are some quotes I found interesting:

"A combination of two techniques from beyond the medical meanstream (sic), and often soundly condemned by it, are reported to have removed all traces of the virus in as short a time as three weeks."

"Patients receive only an IV drip of - believe it or not - the same standard saline solution used in hospitals around the world. The difference is that this IV solution carries a special charge or resonance . . . "

". . . in a surprise blending of Homeopathy and the pioneering research of Royal Raymond Rife. Rife demonstrated the destruction of disease organisms by broadcasting energy at specific frequencies."

"With his microscope, Rife had the advantage of being able to tune his device and confirm the correct frequency simply by observing the result."

"Homeopathy, a highly respected school of medicine around the world . . ." ?!?!?!?!

And just in case any of my fellow sufferers here are tempted to run off and join up, please bear in mind the following:

In Australia, the use of Rife machines have been blamed for causing the deaths of cancer patients who could have been cured with conventional therapy.

The Attorneys General of Wisconsin and Minnesota sued Shelvie Rettmann, a proponent of the Rife "frequency generator" for deceptive trade practices and consumer fraud. The Court found that Rettmann had violated the law and that, as a result of her actions, a cancer patient had ceased chemotherapy and died four months later.

I wish I was making this  up, but I couldn't if I tried.

[OHMaryMargaret]

In addition to Pegelated Inteferon and Copegus, I immersed myself in our inspirational art gallery. I surrounded myself with positive people, thoughts and feelings. For me, it wasn't just the meds. It was the mindset. I believe that my state of mind was every bit as helpful as the meds. I had Type 1A - with an emphasis on the HAD!

[HARRYBEADS]

  Many people think that if someone is selling herbs and calling them chinese , then this is TCM. True TCM is practiced in an office, you require an appointment and if it is your first visit with the Doctor a full exam is done. TCM theory is complex and started thousands of years ago from observations of nature, and the human body. Major theories include those of Yin-yang, the Five Phases, the human body Channel system, Zang Fu organ theory, six confirmations etc. This is strange to us but please try it you will find it is  fully compitant. To get a true understanding you need to see the TCM Doc for years.

  Ginseng will not cure you, this was never suggested, but as you asked, will help support liver functions and boost the immune system. I have not had a cold or flu for many years but some how the hep got thru.

Harry
  

[aptec]

I don't want to sound rude HARRYBEADS, but I have to say that's a load of hogwash.  Because something is "complex" and/or has been around for a long time in no way proves it's effective.  All you're doing is justifying your preference with special pleading - i.e. it's old, it's Chinese, it's complex, it's natural, etc. therefore it works).

None of the "Major theories" you cite will stand up to testing - if by some miracle they did, they'd no longer be 'alternative/complementary" medicine, they'd be MEDICINE (e.g. the anti-malarial drug artemisinin was isolated from Chinese wormwood).

Even the lightest application of Ocam's Razor to your statement that you haven't had a cold or flu for years but somehow the hep got through, will highlight the glaring error in your logic.

[HARRYBEADS]

TCM is not alternative medicine.

...and "somehow the hep got thru" is what I and I hope most people concider funny.

  I notice you are from Japan, the worlds biggest consumer of Panax Quinquefolia (ginseng) besides China.

  Western research has found that extracts of ginseng help diabetics.
Also that it helps strengthen the immune system and prevent flu's and colds. Cold FX is being sold here to do just that. It also helps eliminate fatigue, try a chunk you'll notice the lift right away.
  
HARRY

[aptec]

TMC is alternative medicine.  Good old Wikipedia's description is as good as any:

The term alternative medicine, as used in the modern western world, encompasses any healing practice "that does not fall within the realm of conventional medicine."

I have no idea what you mean by "I and I hope most people concider (sic) funny" in reference to that statement, so I can't comment.

You notice incorrectly - I'm not FROM Japan, I LIVE Japan - which has no bearing on anything.  Japan may or may not be the biggest consumer of ginseng in the entire universe and beyond and it wouldn't prove or disprove anything about ginseng.  An exceedingly large percentage of the Japanese population eats fast food which, if we use your inference, should make fast food a good candidate for a cancer cure.

Anecdotal statements about Western research, and strengthening the immune system and so on, are just that - anecdotal.

As it happens, I know a little about diabetes and how it can be 'helped'.  My wife is Type 1 diabetes, and has been for the past 7 years or so.  She has insulin shots 4 times a day, without which she will quickly go into a coma and die, and all the TCM and ginger and other alternative **** won't matter a damn.  She doesn't need a "lift", she needs a new pancreas.  

I don't know if you're offering advice in good faith or if your another of the new-age alternative crowd pushing yet another dose of the root of the day - I hope it's the former - in which case, thanks but no thanks.  I'm doing just fine with my Interferon tx and my wife is doing fine with her insulin.

[aptec]

The University of Maryland Medical Center, on the use of ginger:

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/ginger-000246.htm

Motion Sickness:

Several studies suggest that ginger may be more effective THAN PLACEBO in reducing symptoms associated with motion sickness. . .

. . . other studies suggest that ginger is not as effective as medications in reducing symptoms associated with motion sickness.

. . . those receiving the medication experienced significantly fewer symptoms compared to those who received ginger.

Pregnancy related nausea and vomiting:

. . . Several studies have found that ginger is more effective THAN PLACEBO in relieving nausea and vomiting associated with pregnancy.

Nausea and vomiting following surgery:

. . . Other studies, however, have failed to find the same positive effects. In fact, one study found that ginger may actually increase vomiting following surgery.

Strangely, the UMMC website makes no mention of ginger helping diabetes.  The kindest word I can think of to describe the current research on ginger is 'inconclusive'.

[HARRYBEADS]

  I also have type 1, since birth, thats how I got the hep, long story...but still cold free. Western Medicine is not the conventinal medicine in the East or our China towns. That many people for that many years, what 5000 or so can't be to far off . The Aboriginals of the Western world also found that the ginseng plant here had the same medicinal properties. And there was not email then.
Anyway ginseng will help to reduce the sugar spikes after a meal, if taken before, this is a Western finding also, different century. I use it to help stabilize my sugar readings.

Try some.

Harry

[jdwithhcv]

"The kindest word I can think of to describe the current research on ginger is 'inconclusive'. "
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anecdotal evidence exists suggesting that ginger, when added to my sweet potato casserole, will taste good    ;-)

jd

[jankar]

Has anyone been working with a homeopath to help reduce or alleviate symptoms of the treatment?

[aptec]

Take some herb, mix it with a volume of water so as the make the amount of herb undetectable, but in such a way that the water retains the 'memory' of the herb, then use the resulting liquid to help reduce or alleviate the symptoms of ANYTHING?  If you believe that, there's a perfectly good bridge in Brooklyn that you might be interested in.

After examining findings from 110 homeopathy trials and an equal number of conventional medical trials, the medical journal Lancet urged doctors to:

". . . tell their patients they were wasting their time taking homeopathic medicines -- but also to make more time to connect with the patients rather than just prescribing and forgetting."

[HARRYBEADS]

I was told to take aspirin for the head aches, and opium for my pain and valium to help with sleep.

Harry

[jankar]

I take it taht is a no.....

[aptec]

Well spotted.

[pjhep80]

i take max milk thistle and liv-52 my ast/alt levels have normalized since i started (they were never very high to begin with however) plus lots of water and organics avoid alcohol etc nothing natural is going to get rid of the virus however but i think they can def help you stay healthy...

[jankar]

I have been drinking ginger tea - seems to be relaxing and another way of drinking fluids, maybe it helps with the nausea, helps having a warm drink that is not caffeine or milk based as well.  Been eating home made bircher muesli every morning this week before the riba and no nausea - will do a test tomorrow and eat something else instead and see what happens with the nausea.  All experimental on my part.  Thanks for the advice about milk thistle and liv-52.  I believe healthy lifestyle, good food, all that stuff will help me with the treatment.  Plus my lovely partner to help with everything else - I am going to a homeopath 7 November - I started treatment 3 October - will report back.

[aptec]

I agree with your take on a healthy lifestyle, good food, and the importance of a good partner, but I have to part ways with you on the homeopathy.  I can't see any earthly reason to pay even a thin dime for the 'memory' of a herb delivered in water - at least your ginger tea to has something in it.

[anokanite]

I take Liv 52 for about 1 year now. I ask gi "We can't test", I ask pp " I don't think it will hurt you".   With an encouraging look.  I go to Thailand and ask gi there, if there are any other tx available there but not here "no", then ask about Liv 52 "It will help your liver but it won't cure hep c. Went 1/2 way around the world, and that the answer i got. So look at all the time and money you just saved.

[anokanite]

I forgot to mention that my gi seemed impressed by my results. I also use a far infrared sauna about every other night.  I also started juicing again heavy for a while then got lazy again could see a difference. It will be about 6 more months before we know if we can tx. Due to psiorisis and I'm just starting Humria. I think I'm doing ok for being diagnosed with chirrousis in Feb. 06.

[Marilyn74]

I started taking Liv.52 two weeks ago.  I also have been taking Ginseng and an herbal digestive enzyme for quite a while.  Does anyone know if it's okay to take Liv.52 with the other two herbals?

[susan400]

You asked, what do we think about the alternative medicines.  What I think is that they will not cure you.  With that being said, there has been some helpfulness shown by certain things such as milk thistle..., when used while NOT on treatments such as those prescribed by a physician.  That is what I think.  Susan400

[mhudnall]

Orthomolecular nutrition is the use of nutrients to treat disease. Megadoses of certain nutrients for treatment of disease, both IV and oral have plenty of science behind them. Phosphatidylcholine, glutathione, and alpha lipoic acid have been shown to be extremely hepatoprotective. In Japan Laeennec human placenta extract (IV and IM) has been approved by the ministry of health (their FDA) since 1974 for viral hepatitis. These nutrients can control inflammation, reduce fibrosis and lower viral loads.

There is also an FDA approved drug called naltrexone that is being given by alternative MDs in a low dose form (low dose naltrexone) that stimulates the immune system for a wide variety of illnesses across the board, including hepatitis c. Low dose naltrexone lowered my viral load form 1.6 million to 58 thousand in 3 months and normalized my enzymes. My 8 month tests read a 200 thousand viral load, still very low.

Another hep c patient went from over million to 600 thousand in three months. Another went from 1.28 million to 49 thousand. I can show you a website that is collecting data.

In my opinion low dose naltrexone plus orthomolecular nutrition will keep me healthy even in the presence of the virus well past old age.

By the way I tried interferon but the treatment failed, leaving me in much worse health than before using it. Permanent side effects of interferon are bone marrow damage, thyroid damage, retinal scarring and debilitation of my immune system, leaving me far more vulnerable to the virus than before treatment.

Low dose naltrexone has no side effects and costs only 30 dollars a month even without health insurance.

Mike H

[mhudnall]

Sorry, typo on that last post. Peter went from over 5 million to 600 thousand in three months on low dose naltrexone.

Mike H