Any natural, liver friendly treatments for use in Estrogen Replacement Therapy??

Hi there everybody.  I just came from an appt. with my doctor.  I have been on Estrogen replacement therapy and it's worked quite nicely.  I'm 44, but I've had a complete hysterectomy.  Whenever I go off the Estrogen for good, I'll be instantly menopausal (which I'm not looking forward to!!).  The few times I've tried to stop, it makes me psychotic acting!  Which I really don't need while I'm on treatment.  My doctor gave me another script (against his better judgement) and made me sign a waiver.  Because he says that it's not good for my liver.  My question is, is there anything I can take, either prescription, or natural substance that will help with the mood swings, hot flashes, etc., etc. that go along with menopause?  I've heard that a lot of the herbal things that other people take are not liver friendly.  I'm also wondering if they'd be safe to take on treatment?  I heard that black cohash is not liver friendly.  Anyway, I'm thinking about stopping the estrogen in Jan., when it's not as hot outside.  Any suggestions for me would be appreciated.  BTW, most of the AD's that I've tried don't agree with my system either, so I really don't know what to do.

Susan

[GreatBird]

I thought the estrogen patches were supposed to be okay for the liver. My doctor has me on patches and what's called a "pop" pill, which is a progesterone BCP (very low dose). The flashes are gone. My mind is back. I'm still cranky sometimes so I guess that's me. ;)

[artgal]

I am wondering why you are thinking of stopping your HRT. I had a complete hysterectomy at age 39 and my doctor has told me a low dose of estradiol (.5-1mg) is fine to take until the age I would naturally have gone through menopause (50+). She is very aware that I am going through treatment. In fact I just went for my annual visit several weeks ago and she again said to continue with estrogen. On tx you certainly don't need the added complications of reducing or stopping your HRT.

[susan400]

Dear Artgal,

The reason why I'm considering stopping it is because my gynecologist chastised me today about the estrogen.  He's worried about my liver.  He said he'd prescribe it against his better judgement.  He wants me to think about stopping it and he made me sign a waiver stating that he'd warned me of the side effects of it.  My original plan had always been to wait until I was 50.  I'm like you, I thought that it was a better idea than to go through menopause so early.  My mom has osteoporosis, so I thought that being on the estrogen that I could delay any potential bone-thinning problems as well.  Also, I've heard that the whole reason men progress faster than women in Hep C is because they don't have the estrogen as a protective factor.  My theory is that if I stop my estrogen and go through menopause instantaneously that my fibrosis will progress even faster than it already has been.  As I said above, I have had the hysterectomy and I have no ovaries, uterus, cervix, tubes, etc., etc., so stopping my HRT will mean INSTANT menopause.  You know, by the way, I've always wondered why that call it menopause because it has nothing to do with MEN! Just a little funny one there!  Anyhow, I'd still like to see if there's something liver friendly that I could use to offset the menopausal symptoms when and if I stop the HRT.

Susan

[Forseegood]

This is something I've researched quite extensively-since this applies to me. Here's my email, in case I run out of room and you have further questions. (***@****)Also, proceed with caution-if you have any breast cancer in your immediate family, etc. There have been a number of studies on this subject, here and elsewhere,google it(hepatitis+c+estrogen)or go to (PubMed+T.Poynard+estrogen)This article in PubMed will tell you what they think. Good article.Because women who are pre-menopausal (more estrogen) do better w/the disease and w/clearing with the treatment.(Regardless of age.)Women who are post-menopausal do worse on both counts, usually, (unless they estrogen supplement) therefore they think that estrogen might have a "protective" effect from the disease. There was one "patch" that got some bad press lately,(ortho/evra)google that. I use bio-identical estrogen (cream)that you get from a compounding pharmacy, supposed to be the least toxic of estrogens. (need prescription.) Also, there is a book out that shows you how to use estrogens,(Uzzi Reiss, author)to read your symptoms, so as not to use it everyday.(less harmful.) I see a difference in my hep flareups so I'm a believer. Hep docs don't know squat a/this, usually(because it's latest research??). Go to obgyn. MY OPINION ONLY, people can disagree. Good luck.

[Forseegood]

Also, had to say, an article in Journal of Clinical Gastro in July 05 is contending that oral estrogens was an independent factor in higher survival rates for women with liver cancer in a large long term study. For me, the trouble w/ some docs is that they are such black&white thinkers. They don't always have the time or the inclination to keep up with the studies in any given period, or to look at the nuances of said studies. That big NIH(?)study that had those negatives on estrogens, my understanding is that they were using Premarin (horse urine) and PROGESTINS at higher doses, and the women didn't vary useage. That's much different than what I do. If estrogens are suppose to cause a bit of coagulation of blood, I use natural blood thinners like tumeric and some of my other supplements, so that might not be such a problem for me. There are so many variables. I don't advocate what "I" do to ANYBODY, I just say to read the latest studies and come to your own opinions about them. I usually give these studies to my docs and they change their minds sometimes, not to me (ego stuff) but to their other patients, it's happened. Or they change their minds to me. They are only human too. I figure, this is my life on the line. I'm going to look at everything that can help me w/ the docs help.

[cuteus]

i did a search for the patch and only found a lawyer's site with 20 deaths attributed to the patch out of 4 million users, is that the bad press? It is the same risk that is faced with the oral contraceptives especially in smokers.  If it is something else let me know?

[Forseegood]

Hey Cuteus, firstly, i'm no expert! You know that!!ha! Just read this AP article on it. Don't know that I should post articles so you can email me, addy's up there, and ill send it to ya. Or, if you want to search it, it's written by Martha Mendoza of the Associated Press, came out July 17, 05, the patch maker is Ortho-McNeil. In all my research, the natural, bio-identical plant based estrogens at very low doses and varying uses are the safest. Others can feel free to dispute this of course. Personally, I don't like black cohosh and some of the other reputed natural meno remedies, though I havent tried all. Made me speedy, and for me, and from what I've researched, some of these might be indeed "less" liver "friendly" than the bio-identicals, but that's just my opinion from what i've seen. And you know me, if I can find a natural way to go, I'll take it. Of course, come to your own conclusions with your docs, this is just what I do and it works for me. Do feel much better with hep flare ups,etc. and I fully plan on keeping to this regimen when I do treatment. After I clear, then maybe I'll think about cutting back or stopping, but that could be a long while, all things remaining the same.

[cquest]

Sorry to jump in but the older post is so far away...Thanks for before when I asked about seminars on hep c. I just got a notice from the NYS Health Dept for a provider targeted conference in NYC on 11/15/05. The site if anybody is interested is www.health.state.ny.us/diseases/communicable/hepatitis/  It could be very informative to see what is being said in the medical community about this.I work at a hospital and might be able to go since it would be work related...Also about this menopause thing...I took Cenestin (estrogen only, I had a partial hyster, they left my ovaries)for about a year until that scare came out...the hot flashes were more bearable for some reason and finally stopped. Thank gd it's over! But I am finding that my own body is telling me not to do certain things and I'm thinking it might be a good idea to really start listening to what it's telling me. By the way, what about chocolate? Anybody know if that is bad for the liver? thats what my body is saying right now...what about the chocolate?

[Califia]

Perhaps your gallbladder is reacting to the high fat content?  That would be a real shame, as chocolate is such a nice thing to chase the riba with.

[GreatBird]

>>Anybody know if that is bad for the liver? thats what my body is saying right now...what about the chocolate?<<

According to my acupuncturist, Chinese medicine says chocolate is bad for the liver.

[Forseegood]

Yeah, I agree w/ you in terms of the listening to your body thing. Which kind of goes along with Uzzi Reiss' book, to use the estrogen bio indentical's for cyclic symptoms, and then cut back, etc. Blood tests can only tell you so much cause they fluctuate, so it depends on when youre taking them, unfortunately, that "can" be true for other hormonally related illness, like thyroid, etc. They are only beginning to know "something" about these issues, and it's still controversial with many differing opinions, etc. so I read up as much as possible. I go by what I feel and what I see in studies, how big the studies were, what they actually did in the studies, etc. And I'm a study reading daawg. So if one study contradicts the other, I try to go by a concensus, etc.  And there's that study that some women have to take this for longer periods to relieve symptoms, depends on the individual, once again. Just won't take horse pee or progestins, some things I won't do. Hope youre well.

[susan400]

By the way, I'm not on the 'horse pee one'.  At least I don't think so?  It's called Estrogel.  It's a gel that you rub on your arm every morning.  I'm thinking in the cooler months, like Jan., that I may wean down by doing it every other day.  I have to work up to get my mind around this because I'm not looking forward to coming off my estrogen. My past experiences in stopping it were not at all pleasant.  Does anybody know how long it takes to be done with all the menopausal effects after completely stopping estrogen?  It's not like women who go through it naturally who still have their ovaries, so when I stop then there will be no estrogen.  Unless you count what we get from eating chicken!

Susan

[PasoPerson]

Susan -

I used Premarin from age 43, hysterectomy done, until age 58.  When I quit, there were hardly any symptoms.  I had occasional hot flashes, maybe 2-3 a week, and that's it.  I hope you have the same experience.

Everyone -

This Thursday I go for my biopsy results ... three and a half weeks after biopsy.  The waiting is hard, but now time is near.  I am sure I'll be a regular family member here once I find all this out.  

I thank you all for your questions and responses.  It has already helped me to much.  I've been taking lots of vitamins and supplements, decided upon carefully after reading comments on here and checking other web pages.  You have given me the courage to try to get my liver in prime shape, ready to do proper battle with THE DRAGON.  Hey DragonSlayer ... I may be DragonSlayer2 if this goes okay with me.

I am 60, greatly increasing the chance I will NOT clear.  But above all, I am a Christian and I know God will not let me and my family down.  "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."  (Phil. 4:13).

Talk to y'all on Thursday!  God bless

Carolyn
(PasoPerson)

[Califia]

Back to the chocolate issue for a moment.  I haven't ever heard blanket condemnations of chocolate by TCM practitioners or scholars, but chocolate has a definite warming energy and in an already overly stimulated (overheated) liver, too much heat could lead eventually to liver stagnation.   It always depends on what your base constitution looks like and your particular  systemic strengths and weaknesses.

[cquest]

I gather for the most part that chocolate is off the list...?   I crave sugar so strongly and chocolate is so yummy but after I eat it I feel pretty crummy.

[Moeymitt]

Hi, I started menapause 2 years after being dx with hep c. I found a ND who prescribed Bioidenticals and they work great for me. Estridiol, progestron and testostrone. It all helps me stay in balance and I no longer have any menapausal symts. Most imp. I sleep at night. When I started the symtoms (symptoms) I lasted about 3 months (i always thought I would be one of the ones who did not need hormones when menapause hit!! Boy, was I ever wrong)  before searching for a doctor who would go Bioidential. ( I met with total of 3 doctors) My insurance covers them, made at a compound pharmacy and avoids putting stress on liver. They are each a cream I put on at night. Good luck and I hope you can find what works for you, a great book that helped me a lot was What Your Doctor Doesn't Tell you about Menapause by Lee.

[Forseegood]

Hopefully, this is the last I'll say on all this, (did I hear a few yippees! out there? ha!) there was just another study done- I read it on the Associated Press I think, we're some women go "through" menopause and quit having symptoms, and others go on to be symptomatic on into their 70s, Yikes! And these same women benefit from estrogen for much longer periods of time. So it all depends on the woman taking it, once again. Some women shouldn't be taking estrogen at all, w/ me I'll take my chances w/ the estrogen than deal w/ the hep symptoms and the hep possibly getting worse w/out the estrogen, (in theory) but no breast cancer in my family though. It also supposedly benefits other maladies, many are against it. I surely want to take it while I am still detectable w/ hep, and through treatment, I'll do a wait and see afterwards. I'm 51 now. Personally, I don't want to do the patch cause then you can't cut down or stop for periods w/ that, but that's me. But it's good it's transdermal anyway, which i've heard is better than oral... . From what I remember, youre estrogen isn't horse urine, do a search if youre interested. My opinion only. Whew! guess I'll wipe my forehead now!

[susan400]

Hi Carolyn,

Glad to meet a sister in Christ!  I agree the He holds us in his hand to meet every challenge, even menopause, even HepC!

Take care and God Bless.

Susan

[PasoPerson]

I just had a strange tug at my heart, Susan.  I wonder if, as posted above, there really IS some sort of protection from Hep C when on ERT.  Or maybe coincidence.

Not until after I quit Premarin was I diagnosed with Hep C.  Yet I have not done anything in decades to "get" Hep C (that I know of, anyway).  I don't suppose the Premarin was keeping it dormant, do I???

Strange thought of the day ... anyone welcome to comment on that one.

[cuteus]

hcv is not considered to be "dormant" at any time once it becomes chronic. It is always replicating, but perhaps the symptoms were minimized while on ERT?

[Forseegood]

Did you think you guys were rid of me? anyway, one more thing on what you posted. I had nary any symptoms of hep, maybe more fatigue, but I've had peri-meno symptoms for years, so who knows. Anyway, had absolutely great labs re my hep since 2001, when I was diagnosed. Oddly, when I started to go into menopause, w/my estrogen decreasing, last summer in fact, turned 51, it was the first time the hep symptoms started to hit really bad, a flare up I've never had before. I was sick w/ hep symptoms and menopause. For the first time, my alts went up from 38 to 61 then to 78. (my alts had always been high 30's low 40's, never higher, take them every 3 months.)Really sick for 2 1/2 solid months.Doc said stop taking all supplements& herbs, mistake.Got back on supplements, felt better.Biopsy said 1-1, but I was symptomatic. Started taking the estrogen bio-identical, felt much better.My Alts didn't ever start going up until I hit menopause for real.I've talked to other women, same thing.The hep flareups were IBS, rumbling stomach and severe indigestion, profound  weakness&fatigue,loose stools, much,much clear urine, paleness,dark circles, bad appetite, weight loss, etc. right ear hearing loss? not just meno symptoms. In my case, there was a connection, probably for not all women, but me, yes. Feel much better now, but going to start treatment.

[susan400]

I don't really know what that period of time between infection and diagnosis would be called.  Interesting question.  As far as estrogen hiding your symptoms or making it lie dormant, I suppose that could be possible.  However, lot's of men and women have the same scenario of being undiagnosed for years, even without the estrogen component.  

By the way, if you're interested, I have a small website that I'm getting functional.  There's enough there to read about my story, testimony, etc.  If you're interested here's the web address:

http://www.hepcandme.com

Take care and God Bless

Susan

[PasoPerson]

cuteus - Thanks for telling me about dormant not being what Hep C is.  If I was infected around 30 years ago, but just now diagnosed ... what's the time in between called?  I have SO MUCH to learn yet.

And it is very intersting that it was only a short time after I quit Premarin before I was diagnosed.  That could be due to so many factors:  it may "disguise" symptoms, it may be so good for your liver (yet can cause cancer) that it keeps Hep C at bay, it could be lots of things.  At any rate, it's sure interesting and I think bears studying by those health care profs who do such studies.

Later, my new-found family.  Lovely afternoon thunderstorm in progress and not a good time to stay on 'puter.  

God bless -
Carolyn

[cuteus]

interesting list of symptoms, I had some of those also, the IBS seems better after TX, TG!

[cuteus]

MY guess would be to call it "asymptomatic phase", the virus is there replicating, your body is still trying to evict it but it is not phasing you,the battle within, don't know why some feel every little grumble(like  me) and some feel nothing until an explosion occurs!
I did not feel anything off,until my last pregnancy, so I was asymptomatic until then if I was infected in the 80's, but I would not call it dormant until scientists start the trend, If I got it during labor from a  transfusion, then the start of symptoms make more sense.
I guess it could be like the plaque build up in our arteries, we get no signs until the heart attack, or the damage from a mild case of ulcer caused by that bacteria. The effect is not severe enough for us to show signs.
I think in the beginning the old drs called it dormant thinking it was like the chicken pox virus, but they know better now.
I am sure someone will name the stage soon and become famous,  maybe you?

[doll face]

I m glad to have found you here. I had been meaning to print out the list of menapausal symptoms that you had listed over at OOB. But they got rid of the womens folder. Do you still have that list and could you send it to me or print it here.

Thanks hon. Have you got a date as to when you will be starting tx yet? This is a good place for info and support.

[PasoPerson]

What a great site, Susan!  Congratulations on pursuing this.  My home business is web site design & maintenance, so I can appreciate all the work you've done here.

I've added this site link to my web journal logging my battle with The Dragon: http://pasoperson.bravejournal.com/

Have a wonderful day, and thank you each of you for your insight and kindness shown on this Forum.

[Forseegood]

Good to see you here as well. Believe me, I'm thinking that I might not be the most grounded person on tx, I need some people who know how I once was, just kiddin. Anyway, I think that list is probably too extensive to print here, do they let you do that? anyway, you can email me    ***@****    I found another interesting list of symptoms that "some" women who  had hysterectomy experience. I'll send you that too if you want.

[susan400]

Ina, you are so funny.  "...stay on the horse pee"  struck my funny bone for some reason.  

Anyhow, I don't really want to go off my hormones.  It was just my gyn that was bugging me about it.  I sent him an article in the mail about the estrogen being good for slow fibrosis.  

I'm going to ask my liver doctor about it, too, when I see him next, Fri., July 29th.

Susan

[hepcgetlost]

I have been on premarin since I was 43 following a total hysterectomy. I am now 57. Prior to beginning tx in 2003, I tried to wean off twice and both times were disastrous. I swore I would never go off the stuff.

During my 72 weeks of combo tx I continued to take the premarin and did not have any hot flashes. I am still on premarin but now have hot flashes ALL THE TIME. I am also using estrace topically. Nothing seems to help the hot flashes or the dry tissues. My hair is always limp and wet these days and the hot summer is not helping matters. This is all new and I HATE IT!!!  Should I up the dose of estrogen?? Oh and by the way, I relapsed immediately after stopping tx, in case that's relevant...
Judi

[friole]

Don't have much knowledge about HRT but did want to jump in with my 2 cents.  I am 57 and went thru menopause at 49.  Had the hot flashes and night sweats, but overall it was not anything that required medication. I think what Eisbein said about the bone loss after menopause must be true.  When I went in for my physical in May (first one since I was 50) they did the bone density test and said I had Osteopene - the predesssor to Osteoporosis - and put me on a low dose of Fosomax. Also I have lost 1 1/2 inches. Same exam tested + for hep c and now that I have started tx I think maybe being on the Fosomax is a good thing.  I have been reading the threads about bone loss around teeth due to tx and wonder if the Fosomax might prevent that.

As far as the night sweats and flashes, I think the body temperature permanently heats up internally after menopause.  Many of my friends say the same thing.  YOu just can't use covers after menopause.

Great info on this thread
Kathy

[Tallblonde]

Hi Ina,

Our thread below has evaporated, so I thought I'd jump in here to say howdy.  I was so touched by your kind and compassionate note to me last week.  Thank you again.  I hope you're doing better these days.  Let me know how you are when you get a chance.

Susan

[new-sojourn]

Some recent studies indicate that hrt merely delays menopause symptoms and when one quits the meds, the hot flashes, etc come rushing back.  So one is merely delaying the hot flashes, etc, not sidestepping them or skipping them all together.

Having been virus free for over 3 yrs, so many things attributed to other causes were really hep c related.  The RA, the depression, the fluid retention, the memory loss, the irratability and fatique--all hep c mis-read signs of hep c.  Its a shame the mediacal establishment do not take women's health more seriously instead of telling us to grin and bear it and take another pill!!



On another note, a friend Jack Slater-who had a transplant w/o tx'ing 1st, had a set back and the hep c attacked his new liver and he is now back @ stage 3 in just 6 mos.

So we were both stage 4+-end stage-I tx'd and improved greatly-prob a 3 now and he didn't tx and transplanted and is back @ 3 also.  something to think about.

[Califia]

NS:  So sorry to hear about your good friend Jack.  I wonder if he opted not to treat?  And would you mind posting the URL to his newspaper articles again?

The menopausal symptom I'm not hearing anything about here has to do with thinning tissue.   I'll take hot flashes any day over this, believe me.  The ring and additional Estrace work just up to a point, and on tx the whole syndrome is really intensified.   Bigtime OUCH.   Anybody have any bright ideas?

[Tallblonde]

Hey, that's wonderful news about the cryo!!!  I'm jumping for joy here in Ohio upon hearing that!  If the drugs have scared away the cryo, you've got to believe that they're giving the virus a run for its money, too.  You have every reason to be optimistic, Ina.  I hope this good trend continues for you.

Take care,
Susan

[Califia]

Wonderful news, darlin', what an immense relief that must be.   I lift a plump Santa Rosa plum in your direction...salud!

As for the thinning issue,  I actually meant skin, not bone ... I hate to use the "a" word (atrophy) because it infuriates my inner Peter Pan.   But this business of feeling like you're sitting in a nest of fire ants is just no fun.  Talk about your basic libido killer....grrrrr.

[cuteus]

CHEESE CAKE IT IS< NEW YORK STYLE ONLY!
let's dine at the Cheesecake Factory, ok, maybe I will bake one, maybe.

Ina, what name did cali call you? plum? Santa? Rosa? eh?

YOU BOTH are a riot! we should get a gig going with some of us doing hep c stand up comedy. that would be a sight! Hep night!
there was a girl here, Ganine, she did comedy in NYC, but have not heard from her in a while. Her monicker was girlwithepc or something like that.
anyway, Ina, without the blessed bx, we don't know for sure what the actual tissue looked like. did you read omyst or moey's thread about having the Fibrosure showing stage 3 and the biopsy putting her at the original stage one of three yrs ago? That is a big discrepancy.
I stand by the feeling that the end of the Yr is enough. I wish you would do a bio, though....don't smack me!!Stop!

[cuteus]

califia; I am appropriating the inner Peter Pan phrase!
"you have mande my inner Peter Pan jump for joy!"


Ina; cryo gone=virus gone, I am telling you, I think the November date might still be good for the big stop sign!
or maybe Christmas/Hanukkah/whatever holidays!
we'll get a group together and head for the west coast to party with cranberry juice! frozen crandaiquiris!

[cuteus]

I will tune in!!
I have a 3:30 appt for physical and should be back then. Funny,, I was goint to ask how long before the results were in. ESP?

[cuteus]

Ohio in the same time zone as NY?

I am praying for good news here

[Forseegood]

Here is one of the studies I talked about, the relatively big French one. There is  more to it, you'd have to google it. Just in case anyone is interested. Hope you get some good news Tall blonde, have my fingers crossed for you.


Female sex is a protective factor for the progression of fibrosis in patients with chronic hepatitis C virus (HCV) infection. Experimental data suggest that estrogens may have an antifibrotic effect.

The objective of this study in Paris, France was to evaluate the influence of past pregnancies, oral contraceptives, menopause, and hormone replacement therapy (HRT) on liver fibrosis progression in HCV-infected women.

Four hundred seventy-two HCV-infected women received a survey regarding prior pregnancies, menopause, and the use of oral contraceptives and HRT.

The impact of these variables on liver fibrosis and its progression were evaluated using multivariate analyses considering all putative confounding factors.

Two hundred one women completed the survey (43% response rate), 157 of whom had an estimated date of HCV infection (96 postmenopausal women, 96 women with previous pregnancies, and 105 women with past use of oral contraceptives).

Through multivariate analyses, the estimated rate of fibrosis progression was higher in postmenopausal (P < .05) and nulliparous (P = .02) women and was associated with greater histological activity (P < .001).

Prior use of oral contraceptives had no significant influence.

Among postmenopausal women, the estimated rate of fibrosis progression (

[Tallblonde]

Now, now...don't let all the complexities of your situation rain on your cyro-free parade!  You have something very real to celebrate.  With this disease, we have to relish every piece of good news we get before we plunge into worrying about something else.  

Speaking of worrying....I'm terribly worried about what today holds for me and my husband.  The ultrasound is scheduled for 3:30 p.m.  It's hard to mentally prepare yourself for an event that you know will either put you on cloud nine, or devastate you.  The waiting has been agonizing, so at least that will finally be over.

I'll post the results when I return home...around 6 p.m. or so.  Keep your fingers crossed...this is it.

Susan

[Califia]

Now you guys have me laughing so much my face hurts.   Great, just what I needed.  Ina, thanks for the reality check on the nether parts.   Ivette,  I'm holding you to that baking offer--unless, of course, we decide to gather at the Stage Deli instead.

And for the record, no fungii have entered my life lately, except for the occasional mushroom.   So I remain perfectly unrepentant about my chocolate habit., thank you very much.  Actually, the one with the "habit" is my SO.   He seems to think that bittersweet chocolate is one of the five food groups.   And what's a poor girl to do when she finds little stashes of the stuff tucked away in the kitchen cabinets?  

p.s.  I don't  believe I'm on record as anti-Gatorade, but  I have to admit the stuff is scary looking.   I'll wear punk rock chartreuse any day, but drink it????   Yeccch.

[jeanroc]

thanks...wow did you open my eyes....I've been thinking all these thing just not ablt to focus them...maybe the lack of my HRT for five years...since last biopsy...in those five years I have advanced to fibosis...and facing interferon...I'm back on the HRT...your brilliant thanks for giving studies etc.....
....I'm taking a more active role in my medical care...

.................miss swept under the carpet, Jeanroc