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Avatar universal

Any natural, liver friendly treatments for use in Estrogen Replacement Therapy??

Hi there everybody.  I just came from an appt. with my doctor.  I have been on Estrogen replacement therapy and it's worked quite nicely.  I'm 44, but I've had a complete hysterectomy.  Whenever I go off the Estrogen for good, I'll be instantly menopausal (which I'm not looking forward to!!).  The few times I've tried to stop, it makes me psychotic acting!  Which I really don't need while I'm on treatment.  My doctor gave me another script (against his better judgement) and made me sign a waiver.  Because he says that it's not good for my liver.  My question is, is there anything I can take, either prescription, or natural substance that will help with the mood swings, hot flashes, etc., etc. that go along with menopause?  I've heard that a lot of the herbal things that other people take are not liver friendly.  I'm also wondering if they'd be safe to take on treatment?  I heard that black cohash is not liver friendly.  Anyway, I'm thinking about stopping the estrogen in Jan., when it's not as hot outside.  Any suggestions for me would be appreciated.  BTW, most of the AD's that I've tried don't agree with my system either, so I really don't know what to do.

Susan
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Avatar universal
thanks...wow did you open my eyes....I've been thinking all these thing just not ablt to focus them...maybe the lack of my HRT for five years...since last biopsy...in those five years I have advanced to fibosis...and facing interferon...I'm back on the HRT...your brilliant thanks for giving studies etc.....
....I'm taking a more active role in my medical care...

.................miss swept under the carpet, Jeanroc
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Avatar universal
I will tune in!!
I have a 3:30 appt for physical and should be back then. Funny,, I was goint to ask how long before the results were in. ESP?
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Avatar universal
Now, now...don't let all the complexities of your situation rain on your cyro-free parade!  You have something very real to celebrate.  With this disease, we have to relish every piece of good news we get before we plunge into worrying about something else.  

Speaking of worrying....I'm terribly worried about what today holds for me and my husband.  The ultrasound is scheduled for 3:30 p.m.  It's hard to mentally prepare yourself for an event that you know will either put you on cloud nine, or devastate you.  The waiting has been agonizing, so at least that will finally be over.

I'll post the results when I return home...around 6 p.m. or so.  Keep your fingers crossed...this is it.

Susan
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86075 tn?1238115091
Here is one of the studies I talked about, the relatively big French one. There is  more to it, you'd have to google it. Just in case anyone is interested. Hope you get some good news Tall blonde, have my fingers crossed for you.


Female sex is a protective factor for the progression of fibrosis in patients with chronic hepatitis C virus (HCV) infection. Experimental data suggest that estrogens may have an antifibrotic effect.

The objective of this study in Paris, France was to evaluate the influence of past pregnancies, oral contraceptives, menopause, and hormone replacement therapy (HRT) on liver fibrosis progression in HCV-infected women.

Four hundred seventy-two HCV-infected women received a survey regarding prior pregnancies, menopause, and the use of oral contraceptives and HRT.

The impact of these variables on liver fibrosis and its progression were evaluated using multivariate analyses considering all putative confounding factors.

Two hundred one women completed the survey (43% response rate), 157 of whom had an estimated date of HCV infection (96 postmenopausal women, 96 women with previous pregnancies, and 105 women with past use of oral contraceptives).

Through multivariate analyses, the estimated rate of fibrosis progression was higher in postmenopausal (P < .05) and nulliparous (P = .02) women and was associated with greater histological activity (P < .001).

Prior use of oral contraceptives had no significant influence.

Among postmenopausal women, the estimated rate of fibrosis progression (
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Avatar universal
Ohio in the same time zone as NY?

I am praying for good news here
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Avatar universal
Now you guys have me laughing so much my face hurts.   Great, just what I needed.  Ina, thanks for the reality check on the nether parts.   Ivette,  I'm holding you to that baking offer--unless, of course, we decide to gather at the Stage Deli instead.

And for the record, no fungii have entered my life lately, except for the occasional mushroom.   So I remain perfectly unrepentant about my chocolate habit., thank you very much.  Actually, the one with the "habit" is my SO.   He seems to think that bittersweet chocolate is one of the five food groups.   And what's a poor girl to do when she finds little stashes of the stuff tucked away in the kitchen cabinets?  

p.s.  I don't  believe I'm on record as anti-Gatorade, but  I have to admit the stuff is scary looking.   I'll wear punk rock chartreuse any day, but drink it????   Yeccch.
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Avatar universal
califia; I am appropriating the inner Peter Pan phrase!
"you have mande my inner Peter Pan jump for joy!"


Ina; cryo gone=virus gone, I am telling you, I think the November date might still be good for the big stop sign!
or maybe Christmas/Hanukkah/whatever holidays!
we'll get a group together and head for the west coast to party with cranberry juice! frozen crandaiquiris!
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Avatar universal
CHEESE CAKE IT IS< NEW YORK STYLE ONLY!
let's dine at the Cheesecake Factory, ok, maybe I will bake one, maybe.

Ina, what name did cali call you? plum? Santa? Rosa? eh?

YOU BOTH are a riot! we should get a gig going with some of us doing hep c stand up comedy. that would be a sight! Hep night!
there was a girl here, Ganine, she did comedy in NYC, but have not heard from her in a while. Her monicker was girlwithepc or something like that.
anyway, Ina, without the blessed bx, we don't know for sure what the actual tissue looked like. did you read omyst or moey's thread about having the Fibrosure showing stage 3 and the biopsy putting her at the original stage one of three yrs ago? That is a big discrepancy.
I stand by the feeling that the end of the Yr is enough. I wish you would do a bio, though....don't smack me!!Stop!
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Avatar universal
Wonderful news, darlin', what an immense relief that must be.   I lift a plump Santa Rosa plum in your direction...salud!

As for the thinning issue,  I actually meant skin, not bone ... I hate to use the "a" word (atrophy) because it infuriates my inner Peter Pan.   But this business of feeling like you're sitting in a nest of fire ants is just no fun.  Talk about your basic libido killer....grrrrr.
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Avatar universal
Hey, that's wonderful news about the cryo!!!  I'm jumping for joy here in Ohio upon hearing that!  If the drugs have scared away the cryo, you've got to believe that they're giving the virus a run for its money, too.  You have every reason to be optimistic, Ina.  I hope this good trend continues for you.

Take care,
Susan
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Avatar universal
Some recent studies indicate that hrt merely delays menopause symptoms and when one quits the meds, the hot flashes, etc come rushing back.  So one is merely delaying the hot flashes, etc, not sidestepping them or skipping them all together.

Having been virus free for over 3 yrs, so many things attributed to other causes were really hep c related.  The RA, the depression, the fluid retention, the memory loss, the irratability and fatique--all hep c mis-read signs of hep c.  Its a shame the mediacal establishment do not take women's health more seriously instead of telling us to grin and bear it and take another pill!!



On another note, a friend Jack Slater-who had a transplant w/o tx'ing 1st, had a set back and the hep c attacked his new liver and he is now back @ stage 3 in just 6 mos.

So we were both stage 4+-end stage-I tx'd and improved greatly-prob a 3 now and he didn't tx and transplanted and is back @ 3 also.  something to think about.
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Avatar universal
NS:  So sorry to hear about your good friend Jack.  I wonder if he opted not to treat?  And would you mind posting the URL to his newspaper articles again?

The menopausal symptom I'm not hearing anything about here has to do with thinning tissue.   I'll take hot flashes any day over this, believe me.  The ring and additional Estrace work just up to a point, and on tx the whole syndrome is really intensified.   Bigtime OUCH.   Anybody have any bright ideas?
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Avatar universal
Don't have much knowledge about HRT but did want to jump in with my 2 cents.  I am 57 and went thru menopause at 49.  Had the hot flashes and night sweats, but overall it was not anything that required medication. I think what Eisbein said about the bone loss after menopause must be true.  When I went in for my physical in May (first one since I was 50) they did the bone density test and said I had Osteopene - the predesssor to Osteoporosis - and put me on a low dose of Fosomax. Also I have lost 1 1/2 inches. Same exam tested + for hep c and now that I have started tx I think maybe being on the Fosomax is a good thing.  I have been reading the threads about bone loss around teeth due to tx and wonder if the Fosomax might prevent that.

As far as the night sweats and flashes, I think the body temperature permanently heats up internally after menopause.  Many of my friends say the same thing.  YOu just can't use covers after menopause.

Great info on this thread
Kathy
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Avatar universal
Hi Ina,

Our thread below has evaporated, so I thought I'd jump in here to say howdy.  I was so touched by your kind and compassionate note to me last week.  Thank you again.  I hope you're doing better these days.  Let me know how you are when you get a chance.

Susan
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Avatar universal
I have been on premarin since I was 43 following a total hysterectomy. I am now 57. Prior to beginning tx in 2003, I tried to wean off twice and both times were disastrous. I swore I would never go off the stuff.

During my 72 weeks of combo tx I continued to take the premarin and did not have any hot flashes. I am still on premarin but now have hot flashes ALL THE TIME. I am also using estrace topically. Nothing seems to help the hot flashes or the dry tissues. My hair is always limp and wet these days and the hot summer is not helping matters. This is all new and I HATE IT!!!  Should I up the dose of estrogen?? Oh and by the way, I relapsed immediately after stopping tx, in case that's relevant...
Judi
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Avatar universal
Ina, you are so funny.  "...stay on the horse pee"  struck my funny bone for some reason.  

Anyhow, I don't really want to go off my hormones.  It was just my gyn that was bugging me about it.  I sent him an article in the mail about the estrogen being good for slow fibrosis.  

I'm going to ask my liver doctor about it, too, when I see him next, Fri., July 29th.

Susan
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86075 tn?1238115091
Good to see you here as well. Believe me, I'm thinking that I might not be the most grounded person on tx, I need some people who know how I once was, just kiddin. Anyway, I think that list is probably too extensive to print here, do they let you do that? anyway, you can email me    ***@****    I found another interesting list of symptoms that "some" women who  had hysterectomy experience. I'll send you that too if you want.
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Avatar universal
MY guess would be to call it "asymptomatic phase", the virus is there replicating, your body is still trying to evict it but it is not phasing you,the battle within, don't know why some feel every little grumble(like  me) and some feel nothing until an explosion occurs!
I did not feel anything off,until my last pregnancy, so I was asymptomatic until then if I was infected in the 80's, but I would not call it dormant until scientists start the trend, If I got it during labor from a  transfusion, then the start of symptoms make more sense.
I guess it could be like the plaque build up in our arteries, we get no signs until the heart attack, or the damage from a mild case of ulcer caused by that bacteria. The effect is not severe enough for us to show signs.
I think in the beginning the old drs called it dormant thinking it was like the chicken pox virus, but they know better now.
I am sure someone will name the stage soon and become famous,  maybe you?








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Avatar universal
I m glad to have found you here. I had been meaning to print out the list of menapausal symptoms that you had listed over at OOB. But they got rid of the womens folder. Do you still have that list and could you send it to me or print it here.

Thanks hon. Have you got a date as to when you will be starting tx yet? This is a good place for info and support.
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90502 tn?1196364005
What a great site, Susan!  Congratulations on pursuing this.  My home business is web site design & maintenance, so I can appreciate all the work you've done here.

I've added this site link to my web journal logging my battle with The Dragon: http://pasoperson.bravejournal.com/

Have a wonderful day, and thank you each of you for your insight and kindness shown on this Forum.
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Avatar universal
hcv is not considered to be "dormant" at any time once it becomes chronic. It is always replicating, but perhaps the symptoms were minimized while on ERT?
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Avatar universal
interesting list of symptoms, I had some of those also, the IBS seems better after TX, TG!
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90502 tn?1196364005
I just had a strange tug at my heart, Susan.  I wonder if, as posted above, there really IS some sort of protection from Hep C when on ERT.  Or maybe coincidence.

Not until after I quit Premarin was I diagnosed with Hep C.  Yet I have not done anything in decades to "get" Hep C (that I know of, anyway).  I don't suppose the Premarin was keeping it dormant, do I???

Strange thought of the day ... anyone welcome to comment on that one.
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Avatar universal
I don't really know what that period of time between infection and diagnosis would be called.  Interesting question.  As far as estrogen hiding your symptoms or making it lie dormant, I suppose that could be possible.  However, lot's of men and women have the same scenario of being undiagnosed for years, even without the estrogen component.  

By the way, if you're interested, I have a small website that I'm getting functional.  There's enough there to read about my story, testimony, etc.  If you're interested here's the web address:

http://www.hepcandme.com

Take care and God Bless

Susan
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