Are we talking about Copegus?

[mblessed]

is treatment being discussed  copegus? I have question about week 12 point

[GrandOak]

Copegus and Rebetol are brand names for generic Ribavirin (Riba).

The 12 wk is the combo Peg-IFN/Riba.

Peg-IFN is either Pegasys or PegIntron brand names (there is no generic as these are biological meds)

[mblessed]

I am taking copegus rib + interf sounds like thats what everyone is talking about
i am wondering if i should continue the treatment. I was told  the test at week 12 showed 27 copies per million, The girl from Drs office said no point in continuing but when i pressed her for answers she changed to "well take it till you see the Dr. when I called the pharm. co. was told their guidleline was reduction of 2 to 10th or dropping 2 zeros Does that sound right?

[spcecst2]

That sounds Cope'asetic to me!

[GrandOak]

The general rule of thumb is the 2 log drop, which pretty much equates to dropping the last two zeros from the base line VL, for the VL you should be at or below within 12 weeks of tx.

Recent studies are now suggesting that a UND by week 4 is a better rule, but some have suggested a longer tx period of 72 wks if not UND by wk 12.

Fact of the matter is, and HepResearcher can best verify, it would seem that medically we may be progressing from the Stone Age to the Bronze Age when it comes to understanding and treating HCV.

[mblessed]

but i think i started at 1,334,270 IU/ml that lab say to convert to copies multiply by 5.2  so apprx 7,000,000 would 27 copies per million be great then?

[spcecst2]

If "Recent studies are now suggesting that a UND by week 4 is a better rule" why don't they just figure out the maximum allowable dosage by weight and for the first four weeks we slam the max and test at the end of week five instead of the standard dosages (of which I cheated)! I wish they would do a study!

[jmjm530]

We already have dosing with weekly PCRs that in part does what you're suggesting. Others, like FlGuy have pre-dosed with ribavirin (I think he was non-detectible at week 3?) which takes it even further. That said, I wholeheartedly agree with your thoughts and think it could be taken even further. Look at how agressive they get with chemo patients for short periods of time. For example, why can't those treating for HCV be hospitalized in the beginning and given xtra interferon plus max amounts of riba via IV. Personally, I'd prefer a shorter, more intense treatment than the long drawn out battle that can break both body and spirit and often results in very long-term interferon exposure. Yes, where are those studies?
It's beyond me -- well, really not because where's the money in intense care in a hospital? The money is in the new drugs. Oh, well.

-- Jim

[jmjm530]

first sentence should have said" we already have DOUBLE dosing..."

[GrandOak]

Damn frustrating isn't it?

Especially for folks like myself who get toe-tagged nonresponder and have fewer options available to them than those who relapse.

The upside is that HCV is better off than HIV in that it does have a tx which shows a 50/50 chance of clearing.  So at least in that there is a ray of hope for many and with newer drugs in the pipeline to ideally increase those odds, a possibility that someone may stumble across a *real* cure or vaccination to put HCv into the HBV and HAV catagory.

[GrandOak]

Hey, I'm just glad they don't simply take us out back of the shed and put a bullet in us.

But then again, the pharmacutical companies wouldn't get a chance to make a mint of us first then would they?

I suppose we help to pay for the Carribean retreats (ahhmm MEETINGS) they and the insurance companies have for their executives. So we are a bit more useful than a horse to them.

[spcecst2]

I'm talking about max dosing not (which I am well aware of) double dosing! Almost enough to kill you but NOT! The max the human body by weight can handle, not beating around the bush hard hitting treatment! And test at week five this would save so much wasted time!

[spcecst2]

HIV treatment has come far for prolonging life, take Magic Johnson for example! WE need a central controlling group to bring all the studies, testing and ideas together for this cure! Independent of drug companies with the reward (new treatment) going to the highest bidding drug company to sell at the end!

[jmjm530]

Well, that's sort of what chemo is, isn't it, when they put you in the hospital and give you enough just enough to kill the cancer without killing you. I think we're on the same wavelength, I just think it could optimally done in a hospital setting ,cept' heppers are treated as second class citizen compared to cancer patients, so dream on, Jim.

[FlGuy]

Here's a trial which I think should be considered almost as SOC for those who have 'hard to treat' characteristics  (insurance permitting, and risk accepting) http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct/show/NCT00394277?order=1.  In addition to double-dosing peg, I pre-dosed riba a week before the first two shots.  Was UND at the end of week 2.  So, I liked the results.  If I interpreted HR's comments a few weeks back accurately, I got the impresssion that the pre-riba might not have the impact as the double peg.  Creative docs and risk-taking patients, I think, can grab an advantage that otherwise might not be present.

[spcecst2]

I'm adreaming! I may have beat it down this time, or maybe not, but since I'm dreaming I'm heptimaxing this week instead of waiting 6 months, calling tomorrow! It's been a month this week!

[jmjm530]

Not exactly sure where you are in treatment, but testing earlier and more frequently is the best way to monitor your progress and Heptimax is an excellent test.  All the best with your current treatment. Hope you beat it down this time!

-- Jim

[spcecst2]

I agree about the SOC but they exclude us and that is f'ing buls%$t!!

[FL_Gal]

That's good information, about the trial.  It looks like only Hawaii, Philadelphia, and New Jersey are recruiting right now.  I would definitely have signed up if they were recruiting in my area and I were eligible!  I don't see how long the induction period is, or does it say and I missed it?

[FlGuy]

I think this trial is just starting and think that's why the various sites may not be recruiting yet.  But, it certainly - in some of the arms- has the 'hit it hard concept'. But not without risk.  If I were in a trial kinda mood, this is one I'd look into.  In fact, the only ones I'd consider are this, vx and albuferon (the every other week peg-alike)

[copyman]

i have just started seeing the doc that is recruiting in NJ. they offered me this trial but i declined. he also offered to send me to boston to see Dr A and get a scan, looks like i will take him up on that offer. the only trial i'm interested in and would try is the VX. if i have to start the standard tx then i will do what FLGuy did.

[sfbaygirl]

Hi, haven't seen you in awhile! Sorry to hear about the PCR. This is at week 12 right? There are several of us that have NOT cleared at week 12 and continue treatment. If you are clear by week 24, you may have to go to up to 72 weeks. I wouldn't stop tx, until you talk to the dr. and think about whether you want to extend or not.