Biopsy or fibroscan

[rexx73]

hallo everybody,

first sorry for my poor english,im from switzerland.

i have hep c for 17 years now.last year i made my second therapy wich i had to stopp cause the virus was still there at week 48,i startet with 350 000 viral load and at week 48 i was at 300.

last year i also had a biopsy wich showed f3.

this week i had a fibroscan wich showed 72 kpa.

the professor said thats impossible,because last years f3 cannot go in one year to 70 kpa.
he dont know why there was such a horrible result,and want to wait till he sees the results from the labors.

i was shocked.

but now my question.i go every 6 months in hospital for blood checks and ultrsonic.and they never see something unusual that there could be a cirrhosis in that late stage like 72 kpa

if i really have 72 kpa,i think the doctor already long would have seen that in blood tests or ultrasonic,dont you think so?
and is it possible that a biopsy can be soo much wrong?

what should i believe now?the 72 kpa or the f3?

i have to wait tree weeks for the results,and im going nuts

[rexx73]

the prof sent me a email to me last night,and he said the guy who done my fibroscan,placed the scanner wrong so the 70 kpas are wrong.

im happy to hear that. :-)

but anyway im still f3 and hope to get in trials soon,cause i think i have to wait 2 years till the new drugs are out.

@Bali05,

i ask the prof next time a go threre(around mid december)

[Bali05]

That`s great. I thank you in advance. It is very interesting to see how this is evaluated
internationally:

Here are my 10 readings:

kpa
7.8
8.2
8.7
7.8
9.3
8.9
8.2
7.0
7.8
7.1

average 8.0

[rexx73]

i will ask my prof next time i go there,about youre 8 kpa.

[Bali05]

believe it or not but the kpa reading can be interpreted differently when translated
into Metavir Fs.
I never heard of a reading 72pa and as Andiamo 1 says cirrhosis is betweem 14-18 kpa.
I have seen different interpretations of 8 kpa.
This is why I would like to know what they call 8kpa at your facility.

[Andiamo1]

The signal would have to bounce off a bone the get that high.   I don't think 72 is possible under any circumstances.  I think cirrhosis is  in the 14 - 18 range.

[rexx73]

i think be both know what 8 kpa stands for.the question is how the 70 kpa come.

if you think they have a diffrent measure system,forget it,the prof. told me that he expected around 6-8 kpa from the my test.
but 70 ist a massive load.
im not sure but the the man who made the scan was very unskillfull and after the scan i took a short view on the screen and i saw a 72%,im not 100% sure.
but its possible that he gave the prof. the wrong number,because he wrote this 72 on a paper and bring it to the prof.

[Bali05]

do me a favor please asked them what
8.0 kpa stands for ?

[rexx73]

i will call the hospital next week and ask for the result from ultra and bloodtest.the result from the uni that made the scan will arrive in 2 weeks. In the hospital they check not that much details like in the uni,but i think it will help a little to know what the result from the uni will look like.

[Bali05]

My general physician told that if you have cirrhosis you will be able to see abnormalities on an ultrsound. In addition if your liver feels soft to touch at the edges
I can not see how you can have full blown cirrhosis.
Bloodwork certainly helps to see how well your liver functions (platelets,albumin,ferritin) also get AFP tumor marker.
I had a FibroScan done in August in Germany where they are so confident with its performance that they advise against biopsy.My median reading of 8.0 kpa. They told me F2+ so what  is a 72kpa supposed to be ? a rock ?
How long have they been using the FibroScan at your facility ?
The Swiss are usually very detail oriented and I find hard to believe they
did the test wrong. Never say never especially when your health is on the line.
Can you redo the FibroScan or can you do a FibroSure test ?

[rexx73]

btw im 36 years old m.

did anyone of you ever gi visit switzerland

[rexx73]

im gt1,blood tests are here in 2 weeks.they took about 12 bothles.

i was there for a study with new drugs like boceprevir wich maybe next year starts.

i startet last year with 48 weeks with  peg intron/riba cause the new drugs hit the market not befor 2-3 years.they told me hurry ub because my f3.


der prof. didnt fint something special when he checked my body.
ultrasound i do every 6 months and the last was bevor 8 days,and there was absolutely nothing that would look like a cirrhosis in that late stage.no biogger liver no ascites like always in the last 10 years.

i know with ultrsound you cant see you have f1 or f3 but a very very late cirrhosis like the scan says must have been seen,right?

so i hope the fibroscan was very wrong and not the biopsy last year.

[Bali05]

what geno type are you

[Bali05]

do a FibroSure blood test ,if not available do ultrasound.
what does your bloodwork looke like?
when palpatated how does your liver
feel?
your professor should know how to
get to the bottom of this.

[rexx73]

yes im sure ist 72 kpa,thats why the prof first not believed that high number by itself.

[Bali05]

are you sure it is 72 kpa not 7.2 kpa ? Never heard of such a high value.
cirrhosis starts at a median reading of around 14 kpa.

[Bill1954]

There are many discussions in this forum about biopsy versus Fibroscan; maybe read through this recent post to answer some of your questions:

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Hepatitis-C/Fibroscan-Is-it-any-good/show/1080237

Good luck, and welcome to the discussion group—

Bill