Can I engage in light social drinking now?

[lori j]

Hi fellow Hep C-ers.  I was diagnosed with Hep C a few months ago.  I have Genotype 4a and my viral count was 226,000.  I had a liver biopsy about a week ago and the results came back with no liver damage to speak of an no fibrosis.  My GI specialist recommended no therapy for me.  Just to keep an eye on my liver (via my internist) and to have another liver biopsy in 3 to 5 years.  I am quite relieved as I'm sure you can all relate!

Anyway, my question is this.  I enjoy the occasional glass of wine or beer when I go out to dinner with friends or family or sometimes even in the evening after a long day to relax.  I do not have a drinking problem whatsoever.  I just like the taste of a good wine or a glass of beer.  I also like to join friends for drinks as a way of entertaining ourselves.

Will any amount of alcohol now cause the virus to multiply faster and ultimately lead to liver damage that hasn't occurred in over 30 years when I was first infected via a blood transfusion?

My life goal now (at 49) is to avoid treatment and die of natural causes if possible.  But I also want to enjoy life and part of that for me is to have a drink every so often.  I don't want to overdo it by any means, I'm talking a drink a week at the most and sometimes not even that.

Any advice or has anyone located any research on this?

Thanks,

Lori J

[GrandOak]

Eat, drink, and be merry (but make sure Mary is alright with it).  If the spoon pokes me in the eye when I eat, I remove it from the bowl.  If my hand hurts when I hit it with a hammer, I don't hit it.  Unfortunately, my head does hurt when the frying pan wacks it, and I am making progress in reducing the number of wacks.  But being a male, I still have to keep pressing for the mark and realize I'm receiving fewer wacks now than I did many moons ago.

As previously mentioned, this is a volatile subject.  If one feels they have to drink and are determined to do so, then no one can tell them different.  Many an alcoholic/druggy has gone to the grave not admitting they had a problem and others have gone with the admission but unwillingness to stop.  So if wants to rationalize destructive behaviour, they will do so and no one will be able to convice them differently.

[hippygem]

I have the occassional glass of wine, I know that alcohol is bad for the liver, so is taking certain medications, eating certain foods, the air we breath, the milk we drink, soft drinks everything, the exhaust fumes from cars effect us as well, even a soak in the bathtub with some aromatherapy oils etc is harmful and that includes harmful for everyone, not just us heppers.

But where do we draw the line, ive got to thinking that 'stuff it', i want to enjoy my life too, im eating properly, adjusted my life style, go walking/exercise and all that stuff, I dont binge drink like i used to, i cant drink a bottle of scotch like i used to, but i can have a couple glasses of wine every now and then, it only takes 2 or 3 to get me going these days anyway, and i drink plenty of water in between and space it out.

I also smoke cigarettes, which i would rather give up than stop having a glass of wine, but that is so hard to do, but i will do it eventually, i stopped smoking for 8 days and i couldnt believe the difference i felt, it was fantastic.  I was on Zyban during that 8 days, but the change in my personality and the way they made me feel was terrible, so i had to go off zyban.

I did stop drinking whilst on treatment, absolutely dont drink while txing.  It is too important to take real good care of yourself while on the tx.

I know a lot of you wont agree with me on this one, but its a choice we all make individually and if someone chooses to do something that others disagree with well, dont give them a hard time cos it is their choice.

I was also told by doctors that to have an occassional one is alright, and that means occassional.

[GoofyDad]

<i>Really, the only thing that bums me out is world poverty and cruelty of all kinds....</i>

I'm with you Sister! Those and fat women in tube tops. But I digress...

[timedog]

no connection! smoking cause lung cancer drinking does not cause hep c! She has no liver damage.

I have yet to read a clear article about the relationship of amount of acholol to liver damage. My liver specialist said I could have a drink or two a week even while on treatment. I don't because i feel bad enough as it is.

[Kalio1]

Hello and welcome. Sorry to hear you have Hep C. What does your DOCTOR say to the idea that it would be OK to drink ay alcohol?
In my opinion you need to educate yourself about the disease. Read up on  it, consult with additional doctors ( a liver specialist)drinking with Hep C is a very bad idea, it is ike pouring gasoline on the fire of your disease. What geotype do you have?

[Pdilly]

Just as those have mentioned Alcohol is a subject that all have their own opinions.   Its one of those subjects I think you would be best going out on the web and educating yourself with all the opinions and then make your decision.   Personally I am stage 2-3 I can't take that risk.  Taking risks is what got me in this mess to begin with.   Anyway education is the best thing.  Doctors also have their own opinion.

[cuteus]

jm, she is set in avoiding tx, not wait for new drugs, per her own words.

kalio, she is a 4a

lori, I too enjoyed occassional drinks and had mild liver damage before learning of hep c in my liver.  But, somehow, I think the protection afforded to pre menopausal women felt as if it was going away.  So, off to tx I went.  Bear also in mind that hep c is not just a liver disease. Autoimmune conditions are been connected to the virus presence in many studies. read about extrahepatic manifestations of hep c.  If you have none of those, and are willing to chance that alcohol will not speed up hep c damage in your body, it is your choice ultimately. But you won't get a whole lot of backing on that from folks that are in cirrhosis, had to give up their dinner wine and are battling with the virus treatment after treatment.  You are fortunate. I hope the good luck continues

[jmjm530]

Not to split hairs (or wine corks in this thread :) ) the fact that her doctor is recommending keeping an eye on things, including follow-up biopsy in 3-5 years is a Watch n' Wait approach. Also, unless I mis-read your post, my understanding from previous threads is that you still enjoy a glass of wine, etc, on occasion post treatment. Wasn't sure if you stance has changed.

-- Jim

[52TELE]

Hi Jim , did you ever get into that 12 step alcohol thread program? LOL

[jmjm530]

LOL. Point well taken Tele. I'm outta this thread for good now. Thanks for the reminder.

[susan400]

All I'm going to say is No, you should not drink.

Susan

[Myown]

Hi Lori,
Welcome and sorry to hear you have hep c....but happy to hear that your liver is in such good shape. Boy, many of us on this site would absolutley love to hear the words you heard from your doctor. I agree with the postings that you should ask your doctor and also educate yourself as much as you can, then draw your own conclusions. There seems to be differing opinions amongst doctors, so in the end, what your heart tells you might be the path you choose.

I'm on the learning path right now myself and actually your post may have given me some thought also. I've been turning my back on the decision to bx (biopsy)though, a majority of people,including here, feel its(bx) the way to go. I might be entering into treatment without necessarily having to have it at this time. If I get a report as good as yours, I can have the "wait and watch"(as Jim mentioned...hi jimmie lol)approach.

But...in my opinion, just my opinion though, I don't think any of us should have a thimble full of alcohol. You're diagnosis is just one notch down from "hep c negative," that would have been the best words to ring in your ears. But you got 2nd best, which "taint bad." Count your lucky stars. Wish you the best!

[cuteus]

oh, I do enjoy wine and beer post tx, but that  was not relevant to Lori's question, since she never treated, is not SVR, and is not planning to treat, but die of unrelated causes.
She does have mild damage or none, but with the presence of HCV, I do not encourage anyone to have any alcohol. It is her choice to take the risk, if any, and to continue enjoying her wine at dinner, regardless of what I or others think.
I am not sure why she posted this question, because I think she will do what she feels is best for her anyway, not follow anyone's suggestions.

[52TELE]

The text below was taken from "The hepatitis Report" found at the URL listed at the bottom. I hope it helps in your decision ,making process.

[lori j]

Thanks all for your honesty, comments, well-wishes and opinions.  Let me make one thing clear---I take this disease extremely seriously.  It wasn't my decision to "not treat" at this time.  It was the specialist's opinion.  He has treated many patients with Hep C and in his words, "Given the fact that you have a type (Genotype 4a) of which very little is known in this country, except that it came from another country (Egypt), and the fact that after 30 years of exposure, there is no fibrosis or damage, and the fact that the odds are not in your favor of eradication since Genotype 4a is treated in the same way as Genotype 1 with what we believe less satisfactory results, we feel that treatment right now is not the best course for you because of the length of treatment and the potentially problematic side effects." We feel that your regular doctor should keep an eye on your liver panel results and if everything continues as it has, another liver biopsy in 3-5 years is the best course of action for you.

I don't plan on resuming my previous drinking habits which consisted of, on the average, 2-3 drinks per week, but I do enjoy drinking. I live a very healthy lifestyle and exercise regularly, but my plan is to be smart, limit my drinking severely to special occasions and if I have to go through treatment (which I had fully planned on happening immediately) down the road, just like Jim mentioned, I'm hoping that there will have been more research and clinical trials and the treatment may not be so intense in the future.  My comment about avoiding treatment was simply to try and live smart and healthy while still enjoying life (as I know it) but if I have to treat in the future, then that is what I will do!

I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone or presume anything about anybody on this forum.  If this was the case for you, I apologize.

Thanks again, everyone! :-)

[rifleman]

Conventional wisdom is that, if you have hepatitis c, your alcohol intake should be minimized.
My doctor told me that 15 years ago, when a blood test indicated that I had an AST of 60.  They did not test ALT, but I was in a high-risk group (received blood products in 60's, 70's, and 80's) for what he called Non-A Non-B hepatitis.
Did I, at age 25, take his advice?  No.  I drank enough beer between the ages of 18 and 39 to fill an oil tanker. I'm not talking about "social" drinking, I'm talking about drinking to get drunk.  At 32 I tested antibody-positive for Hep C.  At 39 I finally had a viral load, liver test, and geno test.  Had geno 2b and minor liver damage.  I treated the hep C and now it is gone. I don't abstain from alcohol now, but I don't exactly binge either.
When you posted your question above, I have a hunch that you already knew the answer.  I guess the only possible reply to your question is. . . ."it's your life."
Because you have active hep c, please try to have some LFT's done every 6 months or year.  You didn't post any ALT's, etc., but a spike in these could indicate that your hep C has awakened and you may wish to take corrective measures.
Also, you may want to keep an open mind as far as treating eventually, even if everything stays fine for the next few years.  You have no liver damage and in 10 years (probably less, but for the sake of argument) there will probably be a quick, painless treatment to clear you of this virus.
I say this b/c I knew a woman who contracted Hep C in 1965 from a blood tranfusion during childbirth. She did fine for the next 35 years, then she died suddenly at age 75 from a massive esophageal hemmorage.  Roger Daltry used to say he "hoped he'd die before he got old," but now he says "I hope I get old before I die."  I have a feeling that hep C is not a good thing to have if you are elderly and your immune system is weakened by age.
DJL

[mremeet]

Sounds like you're a smart lady who's on top of things with a smart and competent doctor who's providing excellent healthcare for you. And I didn't know that type 4's were less responsive to treatment like type 1's were, I thought they were similar to type 2-3's in that regard. Thanks for the 'edumacation'. Best of luck to you.

[jmjm530]

As someone who has a bias toward liver specialists (hepatologist) versus GI's -- your GI's wise words show me that Hep C knowledge doesn't necessarily need an extra title attached.

I think some of the confusion here had to do with some wording in your original post but you cleared things up.

"Alcohol" and "Treat or not to treat" are two of the most volatile topics in many Hep C discussion groups so when you sort of post them both together, sparks can fly although they really didn't this time which is good.

All the best with the rest of your life.

-- Jim

[GoofyDad]

I'm a 47 y/o with cirrhosis. I'm obviously a T-totaller, and will most likely remain so for the rest of my days.

Meanwhile, I believe we can have a significant influence on how this disease affects us and the impact it has on our lives. In Lori's case, it's hard to see how an occaisional glass of wine is going to do much to advance the disease, while obstaining would be allowing the disease more impact on her life than I'd like to see. Having a glass of wine once in a while seems like a reasonable and prudent approach to me.

Lori, I do hope you watch very closely and avail yourself of the newer non-invasive scans as they become available. Also, pls keep an open mind to treatment as better drugs make their way into the market.

[lori j]

Thanks to the last few posts for your words of wisdom.  I appreciate your thoughts and respect your advice.

Lori

[lilmoma]

If you were dx in the first stages of lung cancer, would an occasional cigarette be okay?

[52TELE]

POW!!!!!!

[willows]

Love the cigarette metaphor!  Says everything that needs to be said.  Cept for myself, I am 55, geno 1, grade 3 and if I had been a drinker of any amount in my life, I would be in way worse shape than I am now.  No discussion about alcohol and it's effect on the liver, your liver does not like alcohol and with hep c, livers are already taxed.  Am I brave enough to put another burden on my liver?  Hell, no. Hep C has taken enuff away from me, I'd be a fool to give anything up, health wise, willingly.  I'll be fightin this till the day the dragon gets off my front porch.  And yes, the progression gets quicker after 50, especially for women.

Club soda, with limes squeezed into it, fizzes and pops and makes the most wonderful drink when you add Splenda to them.  Limeade on fireworks.  Exciting enough for me and my liver.  

Good luck.  Hep C is such a personal journey, I think it was jmjm that talked about quality of life, granted, there is this kind of quietness that overcame me, a bit of isolation when I learned I had Hep C, but when I toned down the social noise in my life, my eyes got sooo much better at seeing what was around me.  It was a good trade.  Hope you can find a way to negotiate with yourself, livers need to be treasured.  Orginal equipment and all.
Willow

[jmjm530]

I've self-limited myself to only one reply in alcohol related thread so this is going over my limit :)

As I now see that this discussion has already been expanded, I'll just add that I wholeheartedly agree with your GI regarding not treating now and taking a watch and wait approach. Given your genotype and lack of liver damage, you are fortunate that you do have time to wait and see how the newer drugs in trial will work out. Hopefully, this drugs will offer better results, with shorter treatment times and less side effects -- both during and after treatment.

All the best.

-- Jim