Drug/alcohol free prior to tx

[HeeBGBz]

The nurse I talked to said most doctors want you to be drug and alcohol free for 6 months to a year before tx.  I had an eggnog with rum in mid December but that was only about an ounce of rum and it made me ill.  As far as drugs go, what kind are they talking about?  If its the harsher IV variety, I haven't done IV since the 70's and it's been over 10 years since I've done anything other than marijuana.

Which is my next question.  Is marijuana included in that drug-free mandate?  That's gonna be tough, because that's about the only thing that makes me feel halfway functional.

What was the timeframe for any of you folks who've been through tx?  6 months or a year?  Geez, I could die by then.

[Mary4now]

I think maryjane is not good for hep c.  

[doxies]

Hi, I was a 2b tx. for 6mo. finished last july. Am now svr./cured as dr. says. Someone with more knowledge will come along about the marijuana but i believe there are some here that smoke, as for the drinking it can possibly affect the outcome of tx. i think.

[Bill1954]

Doctors will typically run a tox screen for common street drugs, including marijuana. This treatment requires a commitment from the patient to complete successfully; it’s important to send a message to the doctor that you intend to be compliant with his orders.

As far as smoking pot is concerned, best to consult with the doc; there is a lot of conflicting info out there. While none of it seems to be definitive, the general drift appears to be that pot increases the risk for fibrosis.

Best to you –

Bill

[Bill1954]

Doctors will typically run a tox screen for common street drugs, including marijuana. This treatment requires a commitment from the patient to complete successfully; it’s important to send a message to the doctor that you intend to be compliant with his orders.

As far as smoking pot is concerned, best to consult with the doc; there is a lot of conflicting info out there. While none of it seems to be definitive, the general drift appears to be that pot increases the risk for fibrosis.

Best to you –

Bill

[nygirl7]

You absolutely cannot drink alcohol while on treatment because it can completely turn the medication "Off" so that it just doesn't work.

There are people on here who smoke pot for relief from some of the side effects - just remember whatever you take in has to be taken out through your livers hard work so do the best you can but NO drinking on treatment AT ALL.  Plus - drinking alcohol with active hepC is probably the best thing you can do to advance the liver damage.

[HeeBGBz]

Drinking is not the problem anymore since alcohol has made me sick for over a year now.  I did have a holiday eggnog and it made me feel like ****.  The icky feeling kicks in way before I get a buzz so I don't even attempt it anymore.  I have pretty much lost any desire to drink.

The pot makes me feel better, but even so, it's a very small amount.  I sometimes smoke a small bowl in the late evening just to take the edge off.  I'll quit if I have to, but I sure wish I had an alternative.

[merryBe]

drinking alcohol will advance your liver disease at ten times the normal rate.
smoking pot will advance it at 7 times the normal rate.

certain drugs weaken the liver and advance the disease much more rapidly.
Aside from the fact that the treatment is hard on your liver, with these drugs still being used by a person, it's nothing short of russian roulette.

There are some pharmaceuticals they can give you to make you feel better...not "high" as pot does, but at least not AS unwell as you may otherwise feel. There are only certain drugs that do not damage, harm, or compromise the liver in some way or other so what we take and how much we take become much more important issues.

You need to do weigh carefully which you care more about, temporary relief, or a chance to get well. Liver failure is NOT a fun way to die...so consider long and well.

think of it thiis way, when most people are diagnosed, the doctors can give an aprroximate life span, or time we have left, based on our grade and stage of liver disease.
For every 10 years of life a nn-drinker gets......a drinker gets ONE year.
For every 7 years of life a non-pot smoker gets.........a pothead gets ...1.......

[Mary4now]

OUCH

[HeeBGBz]

I really hate giving up all my vices.  I will read up on it.  It's not so much getting high as it is leveling out.  I just get tired of feeling like carp. ;-)

[working dog]

i have a friend that smoked pot and cigarettes all through tx...still does and he's cleared the virus..he doesn't smoke heavy though...i think cigarettes would be way worse then a little pot unless the pot was grown with nasty chemicals...and now you can get a vaporizer for your pot...you really only get the thc cbd and that stuff..... drinking is out all the way......billy

[HeeBGBz]

Thanks billy.  I'm trying to sort through everything.  Waiting six months to a year seems like forever.  I have neither a doctor, nor a clue.  The tx options seem very far away.  The thought of tx scares me.  

[jmjm530]

MB: rinking alcohol will advance your liver disease at ten times the normal rate.
smoking pot will advance it at 7 times the normal rate.
--------------
I know your heart's in the right place, but where do you get these numbers? Hopefully, you don't make them up cause I've never seen anything like this before :)

I think Bill's take was well balanced that the jury is out on pot smoking but the drift is that it can accelerate fibrosis. Still, medical marijuana is used successfully by many on treatment for side effects.

As for alcohol, hopefully this won't start another alkie thread, but again -- you can't just make things up. HEAVY drinking has been shown to accelerate fibrosis, yes -- but the jury is very much out on social drinking, as long as your're not treating. Certainly a glass of wine now and then is not going to advance your liver disease 10 times? You don't really mean that, do you? But again, HEAVY drinking accelerates fibrosis, although I've never seen this "ten times" figure used, but then again I don't read all the studies.

Be well,

-- Jim

[mar148]

I have read mostly that studies show that alcohol effects the success of treatment, but have also read that studies who that people that drink alcohol that comply with the treatment regime have the same SVR rates.  

I thought possibly there was a concern that people who drink might not comply with treatment requirements.

thoughts?

[jdwithhcv]

Smoking a little pot makes the difference in getting thru tx for me.  It is how I got thru chemo for cancer and this tx is just another chemo.  The small amounts we're talking here and the fact that it will get you thru the tx are more important than the small amount of stress to your liver.  I am not taking antidepressants during this tx, just ativan and marijuana as needed.

I avoid alcohol, though.  Never was a big drinker anyhow (1-2 drinks every 2-3 months and hardly ever finished one.) and its a real BIG no-no for us on Hep C tx.

BTW, my doctor did not drug test me before treatment, but then he has known me for years and knows I'm not a drug addict or a drinker.  If you've had an addiction problem I suppose your doctor would want to know if you're clean.  For me it never came up.

Do what you have to do to get thru it.  Good luck.

jd

[pigeonca]

If you only have an occasional drink, such as an eggnog during the holiday season, yet the doctor wants you to be alcohol-free for 6 months after that egg nog, I would worry about whether that doctor is the right doctor for you.  If you're an alcoholic, yes, a 6 month dry period is imperative, but if you're an average occasional drinker, I'd imagine the doc is imposing some unwarranted value judgments about your behavior and is probably buying into the stigma that hcv can sometimes carry.  I would not want to be the patient of such a person.

As I understand it, unless you have cirrhosis, a single drink will not hurt you, except during treatment - when you definitely must not indulge.  As for pot, I know that I would have wasted away without it.  It was the only thing that gave me any appetite at all and also overcame my feelings of nausea.  Be well.
pigeon

[pigeonca]

If you only have an occasional drink, such as an eggnog during the holiday season, yet the doctor wants you to be alcohol-free for 6 months after that egg nog, I would worry about whether that doctor is the right doctor for you.  If you're an alcoholic, yes, a 6 month dry period is imperative, but if you're an average occasional drinker, I'd imagine the doc is imposing some unwarranted value judgments about your behavior and is probably buying into the stigma that hcv can sometimes carry.  I would not want to be the patient of such a person.

As I understand it, unless you have cirrhosis, a single drink will not hurt you, except during treatment - when you definitely must not indulge.  As for pot, I know that I would have wasted away without it.  It was the only thing that gave me any appetite at all and also overcame my feelings of nausea.  Be well.
pigeon

[Bobby1952]

MB: Drinking alcohol will advance your liver disease at ten times the normal rate.
smoking pot will advance it at 7 times the normal rate.  

    I know you probably mean well but when you post info like this could you please also give us a LINK to support the info provided. I was a social drinker before TX and my fibrosis didn't advance in the last 6 years. I also know people with HEP C that smoke pot everyday and have less fibrosis than me.

    This was also because I started taking care of myself a lot better by eating lean meats vegetables and fruit along with a lot of supplements (vitamins and herbs) that lowered my ALT and AST. I also started a vigorous excercise program.

    My current blood work before treatment was better than it was 6 years ago. I am not saying it is OK to drink with HEP C. It is a individual decision. But I wanted to still drink socially and I did. But I made sure that I didn't contribute to what HR calls "Metabolic Syndrome" which can advance Fibrosis also.  

    Oh yeah I did stop smoking 3 years ago after 40 years of heavy smoking.

Bobby

[Bobby1952]

MB: Drinking alcohol will advance your liver disease at ten times the normal rate.
smoking pot will advance it at 7 times the normal rate.  

    I know you probably mean well but when you post info like this could you please also give us a LINK to support the info provided. I was a social drinker before TX and my fibrosis didn't advance in the last 6 years. I also know people with HEP C that smoke pot everyday and have less fibrosis than me.

    This was also because I started taking care of myself a lot better by eating lean meats vegetables and fruit along with a lot of supplements (vitamins and herbs) that lowered my ALT and AST. I also started a vigorous excercise program.

    My current blood work before treatment was better than it was 6 years ago. I am not saying it is OK to drink with HEP C. It is a individual decision. But I wanted to still drink socially and I did. But I made sure that I didn't contribute to what HR calls "Metabolic Syndrome" which can advance Fibrosis also.  

    Oh yeah I did stop smoking 3 years ago after 40 years of heavy smoking.

Bobby

[HeeBGBz]

mar148 -   I won't be drinking.  However, I do expect that might make sticking to the tx plan iffy if one was under the influence of alcohol.

jdwithhcv- That's what I'm saying.  I smoke minimal amounts, but it makes me feel like I'm still alive.  As opposed to sitting on the couch over-analyzing my every ache and pain and having no interest in anything.  It keeps my sense of humor intact and I need that to survive.  I don't really have a doctor that I'll claim as mine.  I've managed to keep my past IV drug use to myself for 30 years until this damn disease brought it back to light.  Grrr.

pigeonca- It was a nurse who told me doctors want you to be alcohol and drug free for 6 mos to a year.  I posted that here to see if anyone here who had tx was told they had to wait.  I don't have a doctor yet.

Bobby1952 - I was a heavy drinker for years and my liver was okay up to at least 10 years ago.  I haven't had any liver tests recently, but I expect its much worse now (judging by the way I feel).  However I haven't had more than one drink a month for nearly two years and there are many months that I didn't drink at all.  Congrats on quitting smoking.  I quit about 4 years ago.  I used to smoke 3-4 packs a day.  

[nygirl7]

Like the others, I've never heard any of these numbers bandied about anywhere ever.  And honestly even though it's true that no one ON treatment should ever have a drink because of the adverse reaction it can cause on the meds, I can't honestly believe that a glass of wine on the weekend would be hurting anything if you have CLEARED the virus already.

Ditto with pot.

Heebeegeebeez - clear the virus and then just keep things in check and enjoy your occassional toke and live a life.  Chances are that something else will kill you long before your liver will.

[Proactive]

"Like the others, I've never heard any of these numbers bandied about anywhere ever."

Well while Merrybe has been requested to supply a link to her numbers, I would like to request you to supply a link of reference to your comment as well..thanks
"You absolutely cannot drink while on treatment because it can completely turn the medication "Off" so that it just doesn't work."

(I was under the impression that substance abuse was more an issue of
psychiatric problems leading to non compliance, whether it be to taking drugs or keeping appointments etc.I believe the VA has done a number of studies and is still actively treating some with alcohol/drug problems)

[Kalio1]

there is no way your small bowl of pot could be any worse than some of the opiates people with Hep C take for the associated pains of Hep C and treatment.
people telling you pot smoking is bad for you I think are referring to a study that showed that pot smoking increased fibrosis,  but bear in mind this is NOT a proven theory, it is a study and a small one at that. In addition, you have to look to who funded the study, maryjane studies showing it's benefits far outweigh the studies showing negatives.
It is best that you treat your liver best you can, stay away from booxe, sugar, refined foods, red meat, eat as well as you can but in my opinion, you smoking a bowl vs. taking meds instead to cope with the pain is fine. My doc suggested pot as many docs do to control the pain of Hep C.
hang in there
  

[Kalio1]

Could you provide some facts to back up your wild claim that "smoking pot will advance it at 7 times the normal rate"

You can't just make wild claims as fact. I tried to find some info. to back this up but came up empty. Please provide some factual basis for this claim.

[jmjm530]

Kalio: Could you provide some facts to back up your wild claim that "smoking pot will advance it at 7 times the normal rate
--------------------------------------------------------
It's in the same paper that states that drinking any alcohol "will advance your liver disease at ten times the normal rate" :)

Haven;t seen you around here lately much, but from the little I've read, it sounds like you're feeling a lot better lately and that's always good to hear from SVRs.

-- Jim


MB,

You know I like you, and sorry if it seems I'm picking/making fun -- but you really can't just throw out wild claims like this on what is hopefully an informational-based forum where adults are looking for real data to make up their own minds on things.

-- Jim

[gauf]

Don't want to change the subject, but can you comment on oxymatrine? if I remember right you were on this at some point. Did it have any effect on your tx?

[Deb_c430]

agrees with the opiate statement!    

I figure this, smoking,  drinking any thing is like rolling the dice, in the immortal words of some one, forget who, "Do you feel lucky?"  

I haven't smoked pot in over 25 years, it sounds sort of good tho right about now!  I am not opposed to it, just not my thing!

Alcohol tho is poison,  have you ever watched someone with out Hep c dies of cirrohis? I have and it is not pretty.  A glass of wine on New years, a toast ok.  

I am rambling, sorry bad day!

[HeeBGBz]

Thanks all for your input on this thread and others.  It helps me a lot in making choices and in understanding.  I made an appointment today to get my liver blood tests etc done.   I figure I better get a clue on how it's functioning before I go much further.  The VA thing may take a while and I'm trying to do all the things I need to do that I can somewhat afford to do now.

So in picking a doctor.  Should I just go with an MD for now or hunt down a gastrowhatever doc?

[Forseegood]

I've done my time on these alcohol/drug threads, lol...but one thing that always really puzzled me, don't other people get sick from alcohol once they are chronic with hepatitis? particularly symptomatic? I remember, years ago, maybe 1991...I would drink a glass of wine, and it didn't work for me anymore...meaning, it wouldn't give me a little buzz and a sense of fun and well being anymore...it just made me feel sick...now, I wasn't over drinking or anything, but I enjoyed a glass of wine with dinner now and then...so I tried to drink a glass of wine again...same deal...it made me feel kind of sick...kept on experimenting till I finally just gave it up.

Now, at the time, I didn't know I had this at all. I didn't even know what Hep C was. I just tried a few more times, and I came to the conclusion that wine didn't agree with me anymore. Nor did beer. So I just gave it up.

Come to find out I had hepatitis about 10 years later, so I didn't want to take it up again anyway. But I really think my body was telling me something, in retrospect. I'm just wondering has this has happened to anybody else? I mean, I felt sick when I would drink, even one glass. I know Mikimoe told me something similar.

As far as the other stuff on this thread...I'm sure Merry was just trying to help...but yeah, I don't know that you can quantifiable *numbers* calculations on these issues...there just have been a lot of studies indicating that a lot of booze is bad for people with hep...jeez, being on these boards long enough will tell you that much...how many people have we all seen on here who were boozers who came in with cirrhosis and high stages of liver disease? I know I've seen loads...yeah, there are always exceptions to this, but I've always thought about that Clint Eastwood statement myself as regards to these issues, do you feel lucky? And yes, there are people who go to high stages who've never had a drink...this plays out all over the place...

Said this a million times, but my own doc's advice seems sound to me...if you have hepatitis...*one* drink on a special occasion probably won't hurt...*but no routine drinking*...no drinking on treatment cause God knows you already have a load of chemicals coursing through your system, why would anybody want more then necessary? Especially routine drinking...why would anybody chance nullifying the meds? After treatment and svr...then a person can go to moderate drinking again...depending on liver damage of course...

If a person wants to routinely drink with hepatitis or treatment, it's on them and it's a free country...but it's not something I would do....

As far as pot, I have seen studies on this too...but it's not something I think anybody could quantify with numbers calculations either...we're all different...maybe some people can smoke more then others, etc, etc...depends on your particular body, etc..but I've seen where it can add to fibrosis levels, and not just with 7 joints a day as some people have indicated. And it would probably depend on the strength of the pot...strong stinky indica is different then a lot of pot....But who knows? Don't think that our mouths and bodies are made for a combustible substance anyway, it's a mouth, not a BB-Q pit, lol...and the scillia on the lungs, etc...But do I think a joint now and then is really bad? depends on the circumstance I'd say...if people need it to get through chemotherapy, then probably it could do a lot of good for some people..to help them stay on treatment. This plays out differently on everyone.

[Deb_c430]

For me it is why roll the dice? Thanks for the clint hint was bugging me all day!

So much of all this is a guess, and so individual.  

I to had a hard time with alcohol long before I found out,  I loved wine,  then I noticed after a glass or two of red wine, I would wake up the next day with a horrible hangover! 2 glasses? Come on I am Italian!

The very thought of alcohol on tx, is enough to make me gag! I can barely  get water down some days!

That answers the clint question, I am nto that lucky and want no regrets!

I was never  a big drinker, so just sort of tossed it up to getting older and not used to it any more.

Pot I have not smoked for so long, I would be a paranoid mess!   But said that I would if i was on chemo and it helped.  Though my luck i would get busted!  lol..  

[Bill1954]

Hi HeeB,

I’m trying to piece together all your info; have you been diagnosed with Hep C by antibody test only, or has it been determined that you are positive with a viral load? That is, tested positive for serum HCV RNA?

A primary care doctor typically does the screening; and once the diagnosis is in place, or appears inevitable, he or she will refer you to a Gastroenterologist or Hepatologist. If a Hepatologist is available to you , by all means take the referral. They specialize in diseases of the liver. A GI doc on the other hand has a broader scope of work and covers pretty much all the guts :o). There are plenty of good GI’s out there too; don’t turn one down if he comes with good recommendation.

You’ve found a good place here to get some education about your disease. If you haven’t already, take a look at the following site:

http://janis7hepc.com/

More information here than even a liverlover can stand :o), and it’s easy to navigate. Just click on any item of interest in the blue box.

Keep asking questions and good luck to you in your travels-

Bill

[Bill1954]

All;

There have been some interesting statements made in this thread and for some reason the subject of alcohol always seems to bring them out. It seems that many of us tend to use this issue to grandstand our own beliefs rather than present factual data, which is usually all that is requested to begin with.

This applies to all of us, and I certainly include myself in this category, but it reminds me of the following adage:

<<>>

Good day to all—

Bill

[working dog]

theres no incentive for the drug companies to back smoking pot...so of course the studies are going to lean in a way to keep pot illegal..they have for 50 years..i don't think smoking loads of it is great but a little is fine...and i would think useing a vaporizer would make it very safe.....billy

[Bill1954]

The message inside the <> above was meant to be "Better to remain silent and appear the fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt :o).

[R Glass]

After my BX, it was determined that I have minor liver damage. I was a moderate to heavy drinker. We knew it would be a while before starting tx. My Gastr. suggested drinking moderately, working my way to not at all. He said it would be better weaning myself off than trying “Cold Turkey” and risk binging. He made it clear, after starting tx, if any alcohol or illegal drugs were found in my system, treatment would be stopped. After starting tx I really don’t have the desire to have a drink.

[HeeBGBz]

Forseegood - I'm like you describe concerning alcohol.  It makes me sick now.  Either indigestion like or just plain icky.  Very unpleasant.  I used to drink heavily and now I have NO desire to experience that unpleasantness again.  I always drank for the buzz and I can't make it that far so why bother?

7 joints a day?  7 joints would last me a month.

  Bill1954 - I was recently dx. I was tested at the local health department at my request.  My first husband has hep c.  I'm 2b with a vl of 7860000.  That's about all they can do for me.  I have an appt to get the liver blood tests at a dr office.  I may cancel that and go to a different one.  I'm trollin for a dr right now.