Eating Habits and Supplements

It looks slow, so I am going to post this. Forgive me I am being a thread hog. I work out pretty hard and want to continue until I cannot. Maybe I will get lucky and sx will spare me, maybe not. Tx is 30 to 60 days away. My doctor told me it was ok to take supplement proteins in moderation, also vitamins without Iron. However I have been checking all the stuff I used to take and eat. All the protein bars, powders and products seem to have lots of iron in them. Also a whole lot of other stuff I am a little skeptical of now. I have made the vitamin adjustment but the protein is proving elusive. I like to intake 200 to 300 grams of protein on heavy lifting days. But I am reluctant to put my liver though the chore of having to process it through meats. It takes a lot of chicken and tuna to reach that many grams. I am trying to gain some balance here with my exercise lifestyle and HEPC. I have been to few web sites but they seem to be

[silvermoon]

hey!  maybe I am having a brain fog moment.. but...200-300g??? isn't that a hell of a lotta protein? the liver still has to process it.. and protein digestion is hard on the liver... I don't have time right now to go back and check ALL my info .. so, as I said, maybe I am wrong???
I am on the other extreme.. some days I get almost no protein.(which is also bad..). and my usual source is rice, cereal, and yogurt.. once in awhile , pasta..  Have really gotten into black sticky rice lately.. love it..great nutty flavor, and higher in protein than others..
<<BTW  have ya'll really looked at the yogurt labels? some brands have 5-8 gms protein, but some have 11-14..  my fave is Publix store brand,, they make their own, and it is so good and creamy..  , also have to watch out for fake sweeteners like aspertame, which is BAD for ya...>>
If I eat 2 8oz containers in a day, along with something else, I MAY get 30gms protein in a day.. but that is rare..  and I do weight training..to try to keep muscle tone.. ( OK LOU.. not the kind of weights you're talking.. I'm doing 10 lbs  to strengthen arm muscles..female arms.. don't want to look like a muscle woman..LOL   I also do some yoga and am  learning TaiChi.. talk about a workout!!! ALSO under consideration for me is that I already have moderate to severe liver damage.. so watching protein is more of an issue in my case..
...maybe it would be a good idea to talk with your liver doc about this??   Also, there is a grain called 'quinoa'  (keenwaa_, which is very high in protein,. it is a very tiny grain and can be made into salads, put in other stuff..
  I'd be cautious about most of the supplemental proteins out there, as they seem to have other additives..??
  I'd be glad to receive any info you might have to enlighten me on the nutrition thing.. can never learn TOO much!!!
have a Fab day !

[unico]

Hello pSilvermoon,

Yes I said 200-300grams. I know that is a lot, and a lot of people will disagree. However if you are trying to build serious muscle mass you do need that much. Now before it was no big deal because the body just discards it. But now, well you know what I am saying. Hey listen, it doesn

[hph5477]

Yep, that's a lot of protein.  A typical person should have (and has trouble doing it) about 50g per day.  I think you will just have to see how you are doing with the activity level and adjust your intake accordingly.

I am now wek 44/48 and my Heme dropped from 14.3 pre-tx down to 9.9 at last check.  It really makes a difference for me in my activity.  I use to ride my bike near 200 miles/wk and average about 17-18mph.  I started riding more a few wks ago and now are making about 60 miles/wk but can only average 12.4 mph (if I'm lucky).

Good luck to you.

[Califia]

I'm starting to type this while eyeing uneasily my 10 lb weights lying there in the corner collecting dust.   A sad sight, a tragic sight.  What's worse, I seem to have misplaced the remote and the Olympics are on....

Excuse me, I digress.  Whey protein, that's what I wanted to introduce here.  Whey, weights, you see the drift.  A few years ago I went to see Jon Kaiser, M.D.,  a local HIV / CFIDS specialist, to talk about nutrition for immune impairment.  He recommended that people w/ chronic viral infections should be eating huge amounts of protein--unless they were cirrhotic, of course.  For me at 5'6 and 125-130 lbs that meant  89 to 90 gms a day.   Gulp.   You just can't achieve this without protein powders, so I started using Whey.  Even the flavor's whey good.  (Jarrow's an especially trusworthy brand.)   I mix a scoop or two (2-040 gms protein)  into kefir or fruit juice, throw in a tbl. ground flax seed and voila!

Padre Luis, you're a research hound, so you're going to have fun heavy lifting the reams of material out there in AIDS  research land on whey protein and  immune enhancement.   (or not.)

[Califia]

Exercise isn't the only thing that's going out the window.  In paragraph 2 that should be 80-90 gms protein (line 6), and then 20-40 gms protein (line 9).

[IronOverLoad]

Hi, Lou ah a fellow back surgery guy huh..ouch! deadlifts?
When you said the doc said to watch the vitamins and the iron I will assume you have high iron? If so, are they doing anything for you on that?
I don't take anything and try to keep my protein levels low from all sources especially beef. I feel much better that way. Being an ex-weight lifter I used to do the albacore tuna, egg whites, and amino acids on top of 3 to 5 meals a day. Tons of protein drinks and vitamins even took steroids once and remember glandulars? But as time has gone on over many years I have had to change my life drastically, especially my diet. Any protein when broken down creates toxins like plasma ammonia and is hard on the liver giving the HCV a big smile!
I miss the old days when we used to down 10 to 12 raw eggs mixed in a blender with hersheys syrup, then head to the gym for a good pump! We can't do that now for obvious reasons but that is another story of the meat industry poisioning our meats/foods with bacteria and got away with it by putting little warning stickers on it!
I'm thinking HCV is as individual as we are in respect to how our bodies are going to react to it, TX, vitamins... whatever
I just stopped consuming anything that made me tired or itchy spaced out not cause I wanted to cause I needed to.
The depression is a different story all together. The HCV has attacked me mentally and physically making it the biggest challenge I have ever faced. If you have any of the Hemochromatosis genes or high ferrtin/iron TIBC see an iron-overload specialist. The iron can be very dangerous. Be well all grouchyoldguy...

[unico]

Thanks for the feedback


It is my understanding that the body of a healthy person can process and absorb about 40 grams of protein an hour, (not a day), everything else is a waste. A can of tuna has about 20 grams. I eat 5 to 8 times a day. However the falisy about carbs and lifting rings heavy. To muscle needs the carbs, it is more or less the delivery system. The muscle needs carbs before lifting and after lifting. Now the amount all depends on body mass. I have been training a 5 ladies I grew up with and their bodies are completely different so their requirements are different. But since they stared eating and lifting correctly they have seen serious muscle creation and definition. Of course they are always sneaking stuff behind my back!  (Especially margaritas!)  It is all about form, not about how much weight you lift.  But we have different needs and wants. Ladies usually want to thin the hips, thighs and calfs and of course get rid of the cellulite. Men, we want big arms, chest, lats and a six pack. With the ladies, I suggested (stongly) that they started eating 5-6 times a day. Lose the milk, cream, bread, fried foods and the junk. Get the vit d that women need through supplements. The protein in milk has too much fat going for the ride, it

[Califia]

Geography's a real curse.   The perfect personal trainer lives an inter-continental flight away from me?   Further proof there's no justice...!

[Califia]

Whaaat?  I did NOT type my own name:  I swear, I swear.    Although some times it does feel like I'm talking to myself....

[Showboat]

(you caught me!!!) LOL...I was thinking that you have a fantastic outlook, and a great plan. Who knows???? Everyone reacts differently from the meds....and hopefully you will have few sx.   I wish I would have thought about all of that stuff before I started tx...you definitely have the right idea and attitude, dude.  Since ending tx in May, I am getting back on track, though, and it sure is good for the body and the mind.  I have a feeling that you will be able to keep  a schedule going with your work-outs....you sound like you have a strong will, and a positive outlook.  :>)  Peace  I am rooting for you!

[Showboat]

PS...can you come to Ohio...LOL.....I am with Califa, you sound like you could inspire a rock to move... :>)

[Califia]

Whaaat?  I did NOT type my own name:  I swear, I swear.    Although some times it does feel like I'm talking to myself....

[Califia]

Geography's a real curse.   The perfect personal trainer lives an inter-continental flight away from me?   Further proof there's no justice...!

[GulfCoast]

Well, I'm going to go out on a limb and describe my daily nutritional regime. I'm in week 8/24 and get up every morning (5:00 AM) and walk 2 miles with my wife. We do weight training every other day with me doing a more intense workout than my better half. We both have fairly stessful jobs and feel that regular exercise and proper nutrition is critical to making it through treatment & the daily rigors of life/work/family, ahhh.... just kidding, lol.

My wife has just gotten thru tx for breast cancer, lumpdectomy & radiation.Both her doc (oncologist) and my GI doc have commented on how well we've responded to our respective treatments. I feel that is some small part to our trying our best to live/eat healthy.

Anyway, we have a protein drink every morning after our walk. I make it with o/fat yogurt/active cultures, fresh or frozen berries (strawberry/blueberries) 1% milk, and 100% whey protein. During the rest of the day we try to eat high quality protein and a mix of veggies and fruit. No caffeine, lots of water and we try to watch the salt.

Now that I started treatment I seem to have less of an appetite and for meat in particular. My berry blaster protein shakes go down very well and really help when I don't feel like prepping a big meal. Cooking before tx was a big hobby, now it doesn't have the same appeal. If my appetites not there I just hacve a shake.

The one item that I add to my shakes or have with juice is the one that will make y'all think I'm a kook,lol. I add chia seed to my protein shakes or to fruit juice. It's the same seed that's used for chia pets. When mixed with water (it absorbs 9 times it weight) it forms a odorless, bland gel. It is one of the highest products in Omega-3 fatty acids and doesn't go rancid like flax seed oil can.

I had a friend that was a competitive weight lifter that developed Chron's disease (I think I spelled it right)Anyway his body was not processing nutrients correctly and he was wasting away. Chia seed was one of the items recommended to him as it is high in protein, Omega-3 oils and fiber. Between changing his diet and medical treatment he's back to his old self. He highly recommended it to me and I've been eating it since.

When mixed with water it forms a gel that helps prevent blood sugar from spiking so it's good for diabetics also. I'm not claiming it's any type of miracle product but it is one that fits in well for weight training and adds some good quality veggy protein. It is high in fiber which may be a problem for some folks.

Here's how it breaks down:
Chia Seed (1 oz. Serving): 134 calories, total fat 8.2 G, Sat. fat .7 G, Cholesterol 0 Mg, Sodium 5 Mg, Carbohydrate 11 G, Fiber 6.9 G, Protein 4.3 G, sugars 0 G.  

Do a google search on chia and you'll find some good info on this seed/grain. Apparently the Aztecs used this as a compact, high energy trail food.

Anyway, I hope this helps and you don't think I'm too "out there".
Peace - Gulfcoast

[Showboat]

Unico.......Pretty tough training you went through.  Staying with it says alot about your persistence.  I agree with you about some trainers.  I have had experiences with some trainers in the past that were very limited in their knowledge. They did the "cookie cutter" approach....and I saw them do some injury to some exercise/weight lifting "virgins"......

Gulfcoast.....I will have to try those chia seeds.  I have been trying to get back into healthy eating since ending tx.  I really craved (still do) sweets while on tx and that really messed up my regime of eating healthier foods.  Now, I am fighting the bad habit I acquired for mindlessly eating sugar.

Sivermoon.....Hey, I thought I was a coffee connoisseur....you have got me topped...I never heard about the Coffee Toddy Maker...I checked out the web site and they are now about $30.00.  I want one....  Also, you can get protein whey at a health food store.................

Peace

[silvermoon]

...yes.. I realize that no protein is not good, less than 10g of fat  a day is no good either, coz a body needs that much alone for heart and nerve cells function...I use only soy milk, no dairy except half and half for my coffee. ( and before ya get on that.. I do a blend of chicory, decafe and Kona or Jamaican Blue mtn..  chicory is a diuretic, is good for the liver and very low in caffeine..and is what is in New Orleans coffee..)   I graze, I can't eat much at one sitting.. I'll cut an apple and banana in a bowl and eat it over a 2 hr period.. mostly I have to make myself eat.. for awhile I was eating a half or whole peanut butter sandwich a day with fruit too.. but,, don't have a taste for it now.. I try to chose cereals with high protein..  I do like smoothies soemtimes, so will have to find out where to get whey protein.. I already use wheat germ and ground flax seed in everything..
and yes..form is everything..Lou... I am no expert, by any means,,sounds as though you are..   maybe you need to hold a med help forum  physical training retreat!!! You could teach us all proper technique!! LOL..
  so... I guess I can do a search on whey also and find a source for it..
Chia seed, huh??  interesting..but that' s a LOT of fat in one ounce of seed!! 8.5g..
very  interesting subject..and most folks don't even realize that when you have certain illnesses, your dietary habits need to change coz the needs are so  different..
  I just LOVE the idea and info exchange on here!!! THANX!!

[CCgirl]

is the southbeach diet OK for us?

[ringeding]

WOW YOU GUYS..... think i'll clip and save this post, great info...i won't tell you what my diet consists of but i can say i am probably living, walking proof that one can get by without any real nutrition or exercise at all and still 'look' trim, fit and healthy..(please don't try this at home folks)ok ok ok i do sometimes eat well...but mostly its a matter of laziness, with my daughter off at college, and me living alone, i really don't bother with real meals anymore, just sorta graze and eat what i want when i am hungry...BUT i am a FREAK when it comes to my daughters groceries and her food intake..

yup...girls i am with you all, i want unicos weight training and nutritional guidance too...lucky girls!! where do we sign up lou??

[cuteus]

the FDA is now coming to its senses about its fat reccomendations. They finally realized that reducing food  to one component(fat, carb, protein, etc)  does not do justice to the positive qualilties of that food. It should not be the amount of fat we are looking at, but the type of fat.
Those seeds have very little satureated fat.
Remember the studies that show monunsaturated fats lower cholesterol?
Same thing with carbs, is not the grams we should look at but whether it is simple or complex carbs, Our way of evaluating nutritional content in foods has to be one of the most confusing and deceiving systems and is creating more obesity, not less.
If I was to follow my inner voice, I should be avoiding procesed white flour products and simple sugars...one of these days I will listen..

[humbled1]

For 3 weeks I`ve been on a strict diet of no meat,{ except fish & turkey }, no diary, no caffine, no junk or fried foods and no wheat. I eat only natural foods ie: beans, brown rice, veg,friuts and drink only distilled water. Also on a multitude of vit. and herbs. I take No medications {not even an asprin} ,I feel much better. At first I thought I would starve , but my energy level has picked up and so has my appetite, lower back pain is almost completly gone. It is working for me folks - believe it or not. My VL is 2.21, will gladly share with you what vit I take, was told NOT to take omega 3, had been taking for 6 mo. prior to knowledge of having HC. I am not taking any interferon or anything else normally associated with HepC Prescription drugs. Need to change my Nickname to "Believer" Peace All

[unico]

Ok, the truth is I am not a certified trainer. I hate to keep bringing up the prison thing but I have no choice. When I went to prison I weight over 300 lbs. When I get back I was 225. So when I walked into the gym in my home town. No one recognized me, except a few people. I got into trouble in prison and the shipped me hundreds of miles away to a serios s%#$hole, and took my visiting and phones privileges. Looking back it was a good thing. I had no one to really bother me, or visit. So I got serious about the health thing. I read everything I could and had volumes of material sent in. I still received mail, my only communication. For the last 7 months I paid someone 20 cans of mackel (don

[GulfCoast]

Hi califia, thanks for your very kind words. It's been a tough year for me and my better half but we just keep on, keeping on. I truly am humbled by her example more than anything. If I have 1/2 as much grace and optimism I will be a lucky man.

Silvermoon - I also drink New Orleans coffee (Cafe du Monde) with chicory. The chicory allows a very strong cuppa without bitterness. Plus it brings back all the memories of sitting in the Cafe du Monde by Jackson Square, drinking cafe au lait and eating beignets. Ahh, good times. The chia is high in fat but it's unsaturated and very high in Omega-3. It's good for you in the same way salmon and other cold water fish are "heart-healthy" for you.  

I don't know if you have the brand "Egg-land's Best" in your area. These are eggs which have 25% less saturated fat and are high in vitamin E & Omega 3. The chickens are vegetarian-fed which is to say, they feed them chia seed to raise the Omega -3 and reduce saturated fat. Man, I do sound like a nut. Anyway it's supposed to be much better for you.

Last but not least. I forgot to mention in my post above, berries added to the smoothy make it very anti-oxidant. I look for frozen blueberries/raspberries/strawberries without any added sugar. Supposedly this will help with the "brainfrogs".  

humbled1 - Why did your doc recommend avoiding Omega-3. I thought this was a good thing. Any info will be very much appreciated.

Thanks to all, this is truly a great site.
Peace - Gulfcoast

[unico]

By the way I agree this thread has some great info, chia seeds, wow, and the shake, cool, but where do you get the powder with no iron? Thanks everyone, truely wonderful info!
Lou

[silvermoon]

AFTER I finish Tx and my liver is better.. THEN we will TALK...I like being in great shape, but my system can't take that now!!.and I doubt many on here can at this point! . a little over a year ago, I walked up to 20 miles in the soft sand on the beach everyday..any idea what that does for the calves, thighs and abs??  today I almost passed out on a 2 mile walk.. sugar level bottomed out, got dehydrated.. I don't know..but it was not pleasant!!
so.. after Tx..and recovery from Tx...  a bunch of us can hop on the  'bus' to  "LOU's Pysical Re-training School for HCV Survivors"  
In the meantime.. any idea how long it will take me to master all the postures of TaiChi??
Have a good night and an excellent week !

[GulfCoast]

unico - I'm not sure what the procedure is for listing brand names here (I thought about it after mentioning the eggs) but hope I'm not committing any cyber sins.

I use 100% pure whey protein powder from Iron-Tek. Now that doesn't sound good as far as iron but the contents list 0% iron. I prefer the strawberry flavor. I tried a variety of brands and this one really tastes good. The soy based ones seem to have an odd aftertaste. It's a handy way to keep your protein intake up.

Also for those with tolerance issues, this is made without soy, wheat, yeast, gluten, corn, starch or preservatives. I know I sound like a total shill but I have found this to be a good product that have helped me during tx (appetite issues).

The chia is good because it's so easy to mix a batch, no cooking and it very easy to add to juice. I've tried amaranth, quinoa, and other natural grains but sometimes cooking/prep is more than I care to do. I found chia to be organic fast food. You put it in a jar with water,pure mountain spring water, straight from the foothills of the Himalayas (well my faucet) and shake, 20 minutes later add to your smoothy/juice or or add to pancake batter or muffin mix.

Hope this helps you, I think you have definitely done your "due diligence" on researching stuff.
regards,
Gulfcoast

[silvermoon]

I order ground chicory as well as other herbs, etc from
herbal.com.. they have excellent prices..and free shipping!!!

http://www.herbalcom.com/index.php3?session=4d42451d2f9950f6d1713cea55f7a62c


I take the chicory and mix it with whatever (fresh ground beans or other) I want. I mix up a pound or two at a time and keep in freezer..   I also have started doing a cold brew drip method  using a pound of coffee.. I got the Coffee Toddy Maker for $10. a long time ago from frenchmarketcoffee.com.. it makes a very concentrated brew, then you mix a few tablespoons into a cup of water and heat in micro, or add boiling water to the concentrate in a cup.. Cold brewing removes the bitterness.the acids... it is really great..taste awesome!! French Market coffe is $4/lb here  and Cafe duMonde coffee is $7./lb..
keep concentrate in refrig..  so this way is just as good but not so hard on the budget!!!!!

[unico]

Gulfcoast/Silermoon

Thanks, I will check out the sites.
I only drink soy milk, no regular milk. For a couple of years I ate cereal with water, no milk. Just about everyone thinks that

[Califia]

Maybe if the sunspots don't get me this message will print only once!  No, I don't think you and your better half  are "out there."  The word I'd use is inspiring.  Thank you so much for sharing this.   And please give her a big ol' hug for me.

[humbled1]

I got the advise from the "doctor" [mind you he is a holistic doc] not to take omega 3 because I have a kidney problem ie: they are not functioning properly , He was saying that the omega 3 was not good for my kidneys because of the fatty content. I too was very suprised when he said not to take it. Thought it was good for everything. Don`t know what kind of shape my liver is in / liver panel came back normal but I know this doesn`t necessarily mean I have no damage and that only a biop will tell for certain. Any one have swelling above and below the eyes? I woke up one morning looking like I had been in a boxing match lol -the upper eyelid puffiness stays with me all day, could be my kidney prob & that I drink so much water. The coffee sounds delicious.. wish I could have a cup! Peace all

[silvermoon]

humbled1:  I wish I knew what to tell you about the eye puffiness...I assume you have talked with your doctor about this?  If not, you should !!  It could also be an allergy to something in your environment..???  how it is treated will deoend on WHAT is causing it...you don't say how extreme it is..have you tried warm or cold compresses?? or sliced cucumbers???
  The coffee mentioned  IS wonderful....Why can't you have a cup of coffee?  The whole thing with the mixyure I make, is that it is very low on caffeine..   you can customize how you mix it.. Chicory is a natural diuretic, has no caffeine.and taste great.. you can even brew chicory alone as a substitute for coffee.. (caffeine is also a diuretic..)I can't have alot of caffeine, so I have mixed my coffees half regular and half decaf for years.. and I love GOOD coffee.. like Kona, Jamaican Blue Mtn,  Costa Rican Tarrazu, etc.. and prefer to gring my own beans fresh.. I also have always loved the coffees chicory of New Orleans,,and after researching chicory, I realized what a good thing it was!  So now i order chicory by the pound from herbal.com, and add it to whatever coffee I want!  Brewing method also matters.. I prefer to use a french press usually, but finally decided to get out my Toddy brewer that I ordered from  frenchmarketcoffee.com  several years ago.. and it is wonderful.you get a really smooth coffee, without the acids and oils (which are hard on the stomach) of normally brewed coffee.  If you really like coffee and miss it..it is worth a try..
  Showboat:  I don't know if you realized, but on the frenchmarketcoffee.com site..the toddymaker is now $24.95, but it comes with a pound of coffee and/or a mug..  it doesn't weigh much so shipping can't be too much.. there is another toddy maker site where the toddy maker alone is $30.   anyway.. I am thoroughly enjoying mine..no bitter taste..no upset stomach from the acids.. no over heating from sitting on the coffee maker warmer all morning.. just wonderful coffee..every cup..!!