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Echosense/fibroscan
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Echosense/fibroscan

Over the past 3 years I have been blessed with the opportunity of having an echosense/Fibroscan of my liver every three months at a very resonable price. The scan was performed 3x pretreatment,4x during treatment and another 3x postreatment.
This is an amazing machine. It is an accurate, noninvasive assessment of the liver- imagine being able to look inside your liver to check and see how it is doing. I heard it got great reviews last week at the AASLD. I currently travel to LA, California for testing. The researcher may consider opening a monthly Fibroscan clinic in the Los Angeles area if there is enough interest. Has anyone else ever had an echosense and if yes, what was your median (average score)? If anyone is interested in having a Fibroscan in the southern California area please post it. We only need 12 people for a full clinic. This procedure is not covered by insurance but is a great investment in your life because it truly does give you a good indication of how well your liver is doing. This will be the biopsy of the future. It is currenty all they use in most parts of Europe and has proven to be a reliable test to detect fibrosis,and cirrhosis (and, speaking from experience, is certainly easier/less risky than a traditional biopsy).

I am also considering trying Alinia . Apparently there are over 100 people using it for the treatment of hep B and C. Could you please post your results, side effects if any, and how long you have been treating.
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48 Comments Post a Comment
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86075_tn?1238118691
could you please post where you had this done in LA? name of clinic, etc? very interested...thanks so much for sharing your info...
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131817_tn?1209532911
I sure would be interested in this too. I live in No. CA but if I might be interested in a plane ride a few times for this. How much is the cost?
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86075_tn?1238118691
hey, we could have lunch after we've had our liver's scanned and processed, ha ha!

helluva Halloween celebration hereabouts...half a million people, many in costumes...and of course, lot of these people are in "the buisness" costumers, designers, etc...so there were many, many amazing costumes....two guys were walking around in hunting get-ups and fake rifles, one had a big Cheney head and the other had his hair standing straight up with buckshot all over his face, that kind of thing...I saw two Clinton's and Monicas waving to the crowd...a bunch of guys walking together all from the Interview with a Vampire Movie, with spot on costumes, one was the Brad Pit guy, the other one the Tom Cruise guy, (and I mean, they looked just like them) etc. etc....then there are people who actually make lifesize TV sculptures they are walking around in, with their heads some TV character they like, a good one was the housekeeper from the Brady Bunch, with little clay models of all the other charecters surrounding her head...one guy dressed like Freddy Kruger walking around with a giant Mr. MaGoo...sometimes Schwartzenegger zooms around the westside in this gold Humvee, (I know) so this guy had this big Schwartzenegger plaster head in this cardbord gold humvee that he was walking around in....this group was walking around in a dinosaur car with Fred and Wilma in the front seat, and Barney and Betty in the back seat...I swear, Fellini would blow his mind here at Holloween!
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107513_tn?1232290064
I had a Fibroscan done at week 42 of tx, and my readings where in the mid to low 4-5.1 at the highest... I was told that this is incredibly good.
My test was done in Miami, in Dr Schiff's office.
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Avatar_m_tn
Im in southern CA and I'd definately be interested in getting the scan.
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Avatar_m_tn
I had two Fibroscans. One during treatment and one around four months post treatment. I don't have the scan numbers handy, but the first scan was consistent with stage 3 and the second consistent with a low stage 2. This correlated well with my needle biopsy of stage  2-3, three years prior.

Curious:

(1) Since you mention "reasonable price" I'm assuming this is not one of the four sites in the U.S. where Fibroscan is now in FDA trial?

(2) The doctor running my particular trial told me it would not be useful to be scanned more than once a year because more frequent scannings would not produce meaningful results. I could understand being scanned every six months, but being scanned monthly -- or even every 3 months -- seems excessive. What is the justification for being scanned so often given the slow progression (or regression) of fibrosis ?

(3) Could you supply us with a chronology of your Fibroscan results and how they might correlate with any needle biopsy(s) you may have had?

(4) Like others, I'd be interested in name and contact info of the researcher. Is he an MD or working in conjuction with a doctor or medical center? I don't live in the area, but might fly in for a scan next year if not avaliable closer to where I reside.

Thank you very much for this information. Hopefully, Fibroscan will prove as useful as many are saying, resulting in more devices being availiable throught the country. In the meanwhile, the researcher you mention sounds worth exploring.  

Be well.

-- Jim
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Avatar_m_tn
Forgot to ask, what is "Echosense"? Never heard the term used before and couldn't find it with "google". Thanks.

-- Jim
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Avatar_n_tn
I had a FibroScan in Boston in February.  The score was 4.9, which correlates to Stage 0-1.
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131817_tn?1209532911
That would be fun to hook up after our scans and hang out. Forsee that Halloween sounded amazing. It must have been fun. The one in the Castro here turned into a really bad scene. Things just aren't like they used to be. Lots of crazies coming out to make trouble in what was a cool thing. Kinda like the Haight ashbury. Have you seen the documentary the "The Drug Years?" It is really excellent. It was produced by VH1, I think.

Jim; Your questions are really valid and I was wondering some of the same things. It almost sounds to me like someone selling something....don't know, I hope not!
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86075_tn?1238118691
yeah, this definitely sounds doable. I hope Conqueror posts back and fills us in on some of the details, so I won't have to a searching! (though that shouldn't be too hard, just really busy lately) anyway, yeah, it was great in that there were no major incidents even with so many people, driving through that traffic was like trying to get out of Saigon after the fall...brutal...but at least you could keep on laughing while you were crawling out of there, amusing to say the least! anyway, let's really look into this...

Rev: I agree with you that this is not supposed to "as accurate" as needle biopsy, but from everything I've read, it's a good tool to measure against your last biopsy...hope you had a nice Halloween as well...
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Avatar_m_tn
SF: Jim; Your questions are really valid and I was wondering some of the same things. It almost sounds to me like someone selling something....don't know, I hope not!
------------------------------------
Just wanted to make sure we're talking Fibroscan and not Fibroscam. LOL.

Just kidding and no offense to "More", but since a paid Clinic is being recruited, it makes sense to get more information about protocols and who is running it, including affiliations, etc. -- especially since Fibroscan is still in trial for FDA approval, meaning it still doesn't have approval yet as far as I know.

Again, I'm a big fan of Fibrocan -- I had two -- just wanted to get more info, that's all.

-- Jim
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Avatar_m_tn
Forsee: Rev: I agree with you that this is not supposed to "as accurate" as needle biopsy, but from everything I've read, it's a good tool to measure against your last biopsy...
=======================

Some doctors believe it is quite accurate and can be used for clinical decision in lieu of biopsy. And some, as Rev suggests, are not convinced of it's accuracy. The current FDA trials and perhaps follow-up trials will give us more answers.
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86075_tn?1238118691
Man, wouldn't that be "fat" INSTEAD of getting poked by some giant needle? just scanned like a nice cut of beef? that would be wonderful, meanwhile, I'm gonna go have a looksee, if you can get this in these parts...
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Avatar_f_tn
it could be akin to those ultrasound centers that are cropping up at every corner, where they give you a 'pic' of anything from a fetus to a tumor?
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86075_tn?1238118691
A friend of mine's son is in London working for a company that is a leader in "immaging" procedures, he said within a few years, there won't have to be as many invasive procedures for analyzing tissue...better times ahead for all of us...
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86075_tn?1238118691
I've seen these articles before, that this machine is at Harbor UCLA, along with other testing procedures, but I'm trying to find out what protocols they may have and if it's open to public use, etc...if anyone can shed some light, I'd be grateful...

http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/3939_pnt

http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2006icr/icaac/docs/101706_hivhdv.html

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Avatar_m_tn
Fibroscan is Fibroscan. It's being used in Europe and currently in U.S. trial for FDA approval. I've also heard that one or two units are in this country not part of the trial. I believe Dr. Schiff in Miami has one, and maybe the researcher in question the other. Hopefully, we'll hear back from the poster as to whether this is the same Fibroscan with some details as to who is running the show, etc. As they say on TV, accept no substitutes. LOL.
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Avatar_n_tn
HI guys again
I have had 2 fibroscans pre tx (with an 8 month difference) (one gave a reading of F0-F1 and the other was F3???? :-(. I'll be getting another one on Nov 23rd the same day I start tx but to tell you the truth, I don't know what to think about this device because results seem to go all over the place. ;y first appointment the Doc had just one machine and now he has a whole network of them(maybe there are too many heppers over here)
I hate to say it, but I think the biopsy is going to remain the gold standard for some years. No wonder the FDA hasn't approved it yet...
My docs haven't done BX because I'm gonna treat soon and i'm 2B...I'll keep posting the results anyway...don't want to lose faith in technology...

saludos a todos
scuba
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Avatar_m_tn
Scuba,

I hear you, but keep in mind that even needle biopsy can vary up to two stages due to relative and absolute sample size and pathologist bias. The reason the FDA hasn't approved it yet is not  because Fibroscan isn't accurate, it's because here in the U.S. there's a approval process that is being followed.

Hope this finds you well.

-- Jim
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Avatar_m_tn
Hope your not starting trouble again. LOL.

Just wasn't sure if maybe theis "Echosense" is something different. You know, like a piece of equiptment they use at nude gyms :)

-- Jim
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Avatar_m_tn
Nothing "missing" last time I looked :) Anyway, speaking of the gym, that's where I'm off to now.


-- Jim
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Avatar_n_tn
To anyone serious about knowing the stage that their liver disease has progressed to. I would strongly recommend getting a Echosens, it truly is the biopsy of the future.

First of all I do not work for any drug conpany or Fibroscan/echosense. I  am a 42 year old hemophiliac that is very serious about HVC & HBV research. I was co infected with HBV and HCV at a very young age. Since then a have taken my Viral loads undectable 4 times over the past 5 years. Twice with alternative treatments only. I work very closing with several Phd's, we moniter my Viral loads,CBC and full liver panels monthly. We spend alot of time and money critiquing all the some called cures (with some amazing results).

With the use of the fibrocscan we have been able to watch my live heal while using both alternative and mainstream treatments.

For more information on the Fibroscan go to echosens.com
Then have you or your Dr. go to PubMed and review anyone of the hundreds of publications that you will find.
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Avatar_n_tn
To anyone that is serious about having a Fibroscan test in the LA. post your details and I will do my best to facilitate it within a month. Just for the record I am to busy to post daily but I will try to check in weekly. The Fibroscan is truly amazing and will give you a clear picture on how beat up your liver is.

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Avatar_m_tn
Thank you again for posting what appears to be some very valuable information. Perhaps you missed my post, above, "C6". I'm sure some of us may be interested, but it would helpful if you could answer a few questions first, or if you cannot please tell us why. Is there a reason why you aren't mentioning the doctor or reseach facility the scans will be conducted at?

Also, I was a little confused by your last post. Not sure if  you were saying that you were virus positive and then virus non-detectible using alternative means other than interferon and ribavirin? To the best of my knowledge, alternative means may have a role in reducing fibrosis but not in getting rid of the virus itself.

Hope to hear back from you soon.

-- Jim
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Avatar_n_tn
To anyone that is serious about having a Fibroscan test in the LA. post your details and I will do my best to facilitate it within a month. Just for the record I am to busy to post daily but I will try to check in weekly. The Fibroscan is truly amazing and will give you a clear picture on how beat up your liver is.

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Avatar_n_tn
Re everyones many questions.
First of all the Dr. that owns the Echosens in the LA area is one of the worlds most elite hepatitis researches. He has already has impacted all our lives as he is the inventor of NGI's SuperQuant and UltraQual PCR methodology. NGI has the most sensitive PCR technology in the world.
Secondly the FDA has not yet offically approved the Fibroscan, for many political reasons to numerous to mention.
Lastly we know that fibrosis can be reversed and viralloads can be dropped to undectable levels with some very viable natural therapies. The tough part is to do it consistently. Prayfully in the next 90-150 days we will be in a position to post all of our findings or at least direct you our websites. The next challenge will be bringing our protocols to market. We may even be forced to sell into the American markets from another country.
For now rest assured that we are doing our best to authenticate all viable natural options. If we would have been like many other companies we would bring the products to market and worry about validating our claims later.
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Avatar_n_tn
Once again if anyone is serious about Fibroscan testing in the LA area at a reasonable price, please post your contact details and I will arrange it. For the record this is a research test only and has not yet been approved by the FDA. I have personally been using the machine for the past 3 years to monitor my diease progession. What a blessing it has been to have that advantage over the traditional options.
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Avatar_n_tn
If you would like to email me at the office please feel free to.
You can email me at ***@****

Take to you soon.
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Avatar_m_tn
My name is Daniel and I have Hep C and live in Los Angeles.  Would like to have a Fibroscan done.  I real;ize I will have to pay and that is no problem.  Thank you for your help. I can be reached at ***@**** (310) 200-8937
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Avatar_m_tn
Be very careful giving out any personal info on this. I am the rep for this product in SoCal (once it is FDA approved) and there are none of these devices currently in California. Research or otherwise. I ran accross this site will doing a google search and was stunned to see these strange comments from LA.

Great to see all the interest, but.........
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96938_tn?1189803458
Really, most sincerely some people have been firbroscanned in California. Nice to see you drop by, but.....
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Avatar_f_tn
I also have had a fibroscan done by this Dr. I am not sure what the purpose of the clinic is for, is to further prove the effectiveness of the fibroscan? By the way I was a F1-F2

Jordie
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Avatar_m_tn
Wasn't HR involved with the development of the most sensitive PCR testing tool?  I could be way wrong be this doesn't smell right? Cost? Research??, Doctor?? still unanswered. Emi
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Avatar_m_tn
The original post in this thread is two years old. Only the last five posts are current as the dates will show. That said, the Fibroscan device mentioned and the person running it is real. In fact, I believe it was the first Fibroscan unit in the United States and its owner is a regular contributor to this forum under the screen name "HepatitisResearcher" (HR). As a U.S. rep you may not be aware of this unit because I believe it was purchased directly from the French company. .HR has helped a number of members here with Fibroscans over the past few years.

In any event, since you're a rep for Fibroscan, maybe you can inform us how many units currently are in the United States and where they are located. This would be some very useful information for us to have. The last I heard Fibroscan was still in trial for FDA approval and the only two private units were Dr. Schiff in Florida and HR's in California, but my information is probably dated.

-- Jim
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233616_tn?1312790796
yeah my questions are similar to Jims...like why would anyone need 4 scans a year.....at that rate..cheap isn't cheap anymore....

plus, this will not tell you how much iron damage you have will it??

I've also heard not all folks being trained to do these scan are as thourough with them as they need to be. These are very difficult machine to get accurate reading on, particularly in those who are overweight.

It would be lovely if something like this could replace biopsy, but I'm reminded that the ultrasounds I had done revealed nothing of the advanced gall bladder disease I had....even though ultrasound claims to be the gold standard they ARE NOT...in fact far from it.

My concern is that this may be a good tool in the right hands to gauge disease progression or regression, operatively "in the right hands" is the key here until they make a software smart enough to see what the untrained neophyte never may.
Until then, I'd say fibroscan could be indicative of a need for biopsy before deciding on a transplant, but I'd not want to base a decision to transplant or not solely on this new technology.  
Remember also a radiologist with 30 years experience will see things a new student never will, as a general rule, and since the technology is so new, it's reliability will be subject to more scrutity until there really have been some serious hours logged by the people executing and interpreting the scans, or until they do develop some dummy proof sofeware....but who knows how long that may take!.
mb
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96938_tn?1189803458
Although I don't remember where it came from over time, but stuck in my head is the recollection that there was one in Boston (NA) and I think in North Carolina (JMc) or St. Louis (BB).  But, rusty memeory at best.
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Avatar_n_tn
any idea when the fibroscan will be approved by the FDA.

i had a fibroscan performed in LA by HR about 18 months ago.  the average of several "shots" was 47 - the highest HR had ever recorded.  HR is a well know hepatitis researcher who holds patents on a number of tests for detecting and quantifying HCV.   I believe that he is the most experienced fibroscan operator in the US.  He purchased the device directly from the manufacturer and was trained on the machine in Paris by the inventors.
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1409552_tn?1281483061
okay now it is August 2010 - any updated news on this scan? I would love to have this done instead of my upcoming liver biopsy in two weeks. I'm not sure if fibroscan is approved by now and if it's available near me and if by now maybe insurance will pay for it? I live in Port St Lucie, Florida (the Treasure Coast). Any updates appreciated!
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