Exercise

Snook's comment on a thread below about exercise elevating liver enzymes got me thinking.  I've always been physically active, but within the past couple of months, I joined a gym and I'm working out with weights for the first time in my life.  I had my enzymes checked a couple of weeks ago and they were indeed a tad higher than they were back in December.

I also read recently in a book by Dr. Zhang (a well-respected Chinese herbalist) that vigorous exercise isn't good for the liver.  He recommends "gentle" exercise, like walking.

I really don't want to scale back on my activity, but on the other hand, if it's going to compromise my liver health, I can't overlook that.

Any thoughts?

Susan

[scruffy]

Susan, I think that muscle tissue breakdown will cause enzyme spikes but I don't believe that should  be equated to liver damage. frank(I exercise)but won't have blood test till July.

[scruffy]

Was thinking that a person might like to lighten up on the exercise a week or so before blood tests so as not to influence the results of enzyme tests. Thoughts? frank

[rosemary_m2]

Hello I don't mean to get off the subject but can you tell me how many times a day you take the liver 2 pills and how many you take .I would like to buy some and take my self thanx so much rose

[Tallblonde]

My response is in the thread below

[rosemary_m2]

thank you so very much. Yes thats true I did go to the vita site your right it did not explain much what this can do for the liver.My question to you is . are they saying its ok to drink alot and these pills will help you through that?

[rosemary_m2]

Hello Just to let everyone know Iam new here, But I have dah this HEPC for around 4 years now or more...I just want to say to all this is a very wonderful forum with such sweet people thanx a million for all your advice Rose

[bzzracer]

I hope when you said "drink alot" you're not meaning liquor. If you're HCV positive there's no faster way to kill your liver and help the virus spread than by consuming alcohol. Drink lots of water, distilled prefered.

[rosemary_m2]

I was asking tallblone about the description on the liver 2 bottle in the web site vita it seems that they describe these pills liver 2 for alchol consumption...As far as my liquor goes I have cut that down alot,,just now and then I will have a binge but not for long its like on a riday or sat nite...I know its very bad to drink with my hepc thanx so much rose

[Tallblonde]

Rosemary,

The Vitacost blurb is poorly written --I don't know why.  But I do want to tell you that alcohol binging is the absolute WORST thing you could be doing.  Quite honestly, I'm shocked that you would take such a major risk with your Hep C.  If you're truly serious about managing this disease, you have to stop that behavior NOW.  Otherwise, no pill is doing to protect you from the inevitable liver-destruction that you'll be bringing on yourself.  For your sake, and the sake of your child, please stop.

Susan

[Califia]

Scruffy's right about muscle trauma causing enzyme spikes, but that's no reason to cut back on exercise.  In fact, move that body as much as you can.   Zhang's advice seems more directed to people who are affected by exhaustion, and in that case overexertion is a bad idea.    But remember that the 3rd pillar of  TCM  (along with herbal medicine and acupuncture) is exercise--specifically Chi Gung,  which involves attention to the breath and can be done sitting (if you're very ill.)   Otherwise it looks a lot like Tai Chi and can actually be an intense ballet-like workout.   So congratulations on hitting the gym!

[bzzracer]

Oooh, binge drinking, BAD. Like playing Russian roulette but with a loaded gun? That's what you're doing by drinking alcohol. You're dead wrong if you think HCV and liquor can subside together without causing you great harm. Please stop.

[Tallblonde]

Great!  I'll put an extra five pounds on the dumbbells tonight!

Thanks for putting my mind at ease.

Susan

[genedog]

i have insurance again my wife works for my primary care dr who put me on his after plan after my work let my plan expire, happy me

[Moeymitt]

I just have to respond to this ... Do you get Hepatitis Magazine? This past month a Trainer from Calif wrote a small article on liver discomfort and exercise, I fell out of my chair when I read it. I have always exercised and last summer started training for Triathlons... my liver enz. always stayed about the same and when I got them checked in the fall they were reallly high!!! At the same time I started having lots of liver pain which I have never had before (Have had this about 30 years, dx 3y.ago)   Yiks. I didn;t know what to do, exercise or not. So, I still exercise and have talked with two different docs about it, but they  didn't seem to think there was a relationship between exercise and raised alts,asts.  I do. But, I feel so much better and the exercise keeps me from falling into a depression. Keep pumping the iron girl, we need to keep as strong as we can.

[honey1616]

Hi Rose,,,Glad you found medhelp and sorry its under the circumstances of hep but this site will help and guide you through the many stages.  I know on one of the threads you state that they could not find a good piece in your liver.  Seriously,,,the binge drinking or any drinking for that matter needs to go if you want to address this problem head on.  You are at a stage that you can't mess up and your health is depending on you to make the right decisions.  Its never good to take some supplements and then pull out a bottle.  That is a signed death certificate and/or liver transplant.  You probably need to decide which is more important now,,,,your health or your enjoyment.  I hope you stick around and try to beat the hep,,,so many are doing everyday and living a normal life.  I don't mean to lecture and sure you know all the consequences.

[snook_man]

Excercise Good, couch potatoe bad!!! Get out there and excercise..
The reason my CBC's are staying within range right now without meds, is EXCERCISE!!! My RBC's have gone up, my Hemocrit, and even my Hemoglobin.. All because I'm sucking in that oxygen, and forcing the body to keep up.. My job consists of me on my feet for 8 hour periods.. I only get paid if I produce, so I must move constantly. I do heavy lifting, and work in extreme heat.My energy levels do fluctuate, but as long as I keep moving, watch out!!
Week 28 tommorrow..

[Tallblonde]

I didn't see the article, but this whole issue of excercise and liver enzymes has been on my mind for the past couple of weeks.  But I'm less worried about it now, and I'll continue working out.  I can't believe how great strength training makes me feel.  I've alway been good at doing aerobic workouts, but for some reason I never considered lifting weights (seemed like more of a "guy" thing).  I'll be less concerned now if my enzymes are a little higher than usual, and I'll take Scruffy's suggestion to avoid working out a few days prior to my blood being drawn.

Take care,
Susan

[layla]

I am very interested in this article. I tried to look at hepatitis magazine website but could not find that article. Do you have the exact issue date or better yet the article? I have some liver pain off and on and was really watching it and thought it increased with my exercise but figured that was all in my head. Now reading this I am very interested in this article. LL

[gr8faith]

Great news about the insurance.  So glad it worked out and quickly too!  One less thing to worry about.

[terriri]

Moderate daily exercise is good, no exercise is bad, overdoing it is bad. Moderate daily exercise helps the immune system, keeps you strong & flexible and greatly helps you mentally deal with your disease. Over doing it can tax the immune system. Doing nothing can bring on a host of bone & health problems. If uncertain about how much is too much, buy a heart monitor. To figure out your maximum heart rate take 220 & subtract your age. After figuring your maximum rate, work out within 60 to 75% of that. If you can only work out 10 minutes at a time that

[Califia]

I read that article, but as I remember the guy was talking about  internal disease also causing ligament and muscle problems.  Constant inflammation in the liver can cause microfiber (?) thickening around the rib cage, causing pain and restricting mobility.  He apparently offers some kind of deep tissue work to release the contractions.  I checked out the website and it seems there's a series of sessions involved at $400/hr.

[Moeymitt]

Yes, thats the article, so I called him and left a message. Ha!! He called back, we talked for some time but he was very vague as to how he came to this conclusion. He suggested I come down to his clinic, yikkes! $300 a visit, I don't think so. So, for $20 I ordered the vidio. He said he has had exprience with Athletes who have Hep C and the Microfiber Reduction he offers helps. He said that is most likly the cause of my discomfort and, in reality it makes sense to me. (I talked with two medical doctors one being my Hepa/gastro doc who claimed no known reason for the liver pain) I went to my phisical therapist who agreed and we are going to do some work around my ribs/liver area. I am a bodyworker and have attended Myofascial Release classes and would like to see if that helps. Anyway, its the latest issue of Hep Magazine, when I get home I will look up the exact issue. Are either of you a runner? Seems like that stirs up the discomfort the most, cycling and swimming don't.

[layla]

I've been running for 25 years now. I used to run a lot but now just a few miles a few days a week. The knee pain is interfering with that now for the first time. My hepatologist ordered xrays yesterday and I will talk to him about the results next week. Not running to me is just unimaginable. LL

[Califia]

I'm glad the supplementation is working for you.  Me, I've declared a brief moratorium on swallowing anything other food and water--just too burnt out to do it right now, if you can believe that.

I'm fairly certain the sensation I'm feeling is interferon-related, as my whole body is affected to a certain degree.  In my case it's not numbness, just general fluish body ache--arms and shoulders and back, oh my!--and a constant strong throbbing and buzzing and pulsing in the soles of my feet.   Fairly certain it's creeping neurotoxicity, as I've been on interferon since the last Sumer Solstice.    Thyroid could also play a central role in this...certainly fits the hypothyroid profile re muscle contraction, poor muscle recovery, etc.

But you're right, Missy.  I need to get back on the supplementation to help counter this.   Duly noted!

[terriri]

Hey, it is great to see ya. Yes, I am still SVR. I am about to start my Pilates Mix

[Califia]

I'm not a runner--knees can't take it--but I've always been a dance and yoga type.   You and I are definitely thinking along the same lines.   Thanks to the neuropathy I seem to be developing in my feet, I've started Pilates and also want to do a few sessions with a (reasonably priced) PT who's a certified Rolfer to see if I can open up the right rib cage.  I've been so liver-protective for so many years that I can see it reflected in my alignment, and I wonder if the liver pain I continue to feel is not actually contracted muscle/nerve/cartilage related.   Btw, I just picked up _The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook_ by Clair Davies and it's amazing....am learning how to do pretty effective self-massage.    This developing neuropathy is freaking me out and I want to stay ahead of it.  Are you in the Bay Area?

[Tallblonde]

Moey,

Hmmmmm.  Interesting.  Thanks.

Susan


Califia,

I've had some remarkable improvement in my neuropathy during the past month or so by adding Evening Primrose Oil (3 grams daily) and Acetyl L-Carnitine (2 grams daily) to my regimin. Those two things, along with 600 mg. of Alpha Lipoic Acid (which I've been taking for about a year), are recommended by various sources for  non-diabetic peripheral neuropathy.  

I really didn't have much hope of alleviating the neuropathy (my most troubling symptom), but low and behold, it seems like it's actually subsiding!  I'm not waking up in the middle of the night with my arm completely numb.  Now, if I can just get the brain fog to clear, I'll feel like a completely normal person.  Hopefully the Acetyl L-Carnitine will eventually help with that.

Susan
P.S.  Started the Nu-Liver yesterday.  I'll keep you posted.

[LvdByGod!]

wow, long time no hear...how are ya girl? how is the post tx life? did you end up clearing?...i pray so...

sandi

[Moeymitt]

April June issue of Hepatiyis Mag. pg. 18 article Body and Soul. "One of the side effects of hepatitis is the creation of microfibers int he rib cage surrounding the liver" Microfibers are a type of scar tissue that develop between muscles due to injury, illness or overuse.  They restrict movement. (FYI)

When I talked with him he said he had not read the article so he was unable to answer my questions and, he was not clear of his knowledge of Interferon. So, for what it is worth....

[LvdByGod!]

wow you sound great!!! you were one of the first ones on this board that reached out to me when i was new and so scared...i really want to thank you for that...wasn't that a long time ago? i wonder how all those people are that used to be here everyday...

can you believe i'm still treating? it's been a year and a half of tx straight now for me (had an unfortunate viral "breakthrough" in my 5th month of tx where the virus came back durring tx after supposedly clearing) and it's been 2 and a half years since i've been comming here almost daily since finding out i had hepc...remember all those people back then? all out badger hunting i suppose or scrapping it up with someone!!! wish they all would come back and take over here for a day so we can find out how they are...to be sure some are still around...it was so encouraging to see your post...i'm so glad your life is going great...thanks again for your posts to me as a new comer back then...i remember you stood up for me when someone wasn't so nice...thanks for that! GOD BLESS TERRIR, sandi

[terriri]

LdBG, Boy, I cannot believe you are still tx-ing. You are a very strong lady, don