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Glass of Wine
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Glass of Wine

I know I am over reacting, but I went out to dinner last night to celebrate my last riba pill and the end of treatment and had one glass of wine over the course of dinner. Do you think this will impact treatment success?   At this point I am so worried it didn't work it is all that is on my mind.  mar
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Avatar_m_tn
Dont worry 1 Glass of wine aint going to make any differece.
CS
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362971_tn?1201990634
glass f wine won't do any harm. But I would give it a break from now on until you
reach SVR. I think about the same things. During treatment I talked the GI into prescribing some VICODIN because I was in a lot of pain for a while. And then I read about a study with Opiates causing HCV replication in vitro.
   but then they treat Methodone patients successfully! Even though Methodone is a synthetic opiate. I would think it still applies. I also wonder about these in vitro studies if they apply to whats going on in the body not just a test tube.

Bobby
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387294_tn?1207623785
thanks for your thoughts.  I have no intention of drinking until I am SVR.  It hasn't been hard for me not to drink, but had one glass last night.  Sorry I did it, but wondered if I should worry.  I haven't had a drink in almost a year.  

thx for the feedback.
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233616_tn?1312790796
do yourself a favr and learn the lessonsf liver function you didn't pay attention to during treatment.  One glass....does one glass worth of damage/. Alcohol always does liver damage, that is the nature of alcohol.

I'd be concerned that you are still just in the beginning stage of withdrawing from treatment, and so you are more at risk in the next 3 months of a relaspe than at any other time.  not exactly time to start indulging.

therefore in my humble opinion even one glass was a dumb thing to do.
Not trying to sound mean here, just sensible. Take care of your liver AND your immune system and do not waer it down with any more celebrating or recreation mood altering substances....your liver works hard just to process and break down the millions of molecules you eat each day and turn them into digestible product to help you. throwing drugs and alcohol on top is like asking it to work double time in a thrice toxic environment.
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387294_tn?1207623785
I find your response rather excessive considering I had already written that I wasn't going to have any more wine until clearly SVR.  Do you have a job or experience with people who are drug and alcohol addicts?  I have never been much of a drinker and feel like I am in rehab with your response.  You responded to drugs and alcohol, is there some reason you need to react like this?
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87972_tn?1322664839
Unfortunately, some people in here feel compelled to use topics like this to soapbox their own personal agendas; furthermore, they do so without regard to scientific method or principal. For what it’s worth, you have my apologies :o),

Bill

By the way, I agree with the majority in here that if you're treatment is unsuccesful, it probably won't be due to a glass of wine. Good luck in your efforts, and take care.
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233616_tn?1312790796
sorry, and you are right it probably is essesive....but one celebration leads to another...
with many of my friends and family, so I'm being a little presumptous here OK, and saying, or rather reading into this that if you are washing down your last Riba pill with some booze that you may just like yur wine, and that may not be the end of it.
I can only help if I try to percieve what is really going on, and why you asked the question in the first place. Did you need help? Did you want assurance, or did you want someone to help you think through what you may be thinking of doing, but left unsaid?

so speaking as a mom would to her son who has it...why go there.

speaking as a forum member who has read countless stories of people relasping and knowing the heartbreak of that bad news personally////, as well as what a lot of work, the torment of treatment and getting through it is....it just seems like now is the time to take excellent care of yourself......
because it hurts me everytime another member comes in here and has to give news that they relasped.  and I do not want to see you join that group...
.or be second guessing how it might have been different had you not returned to former habits of consumption.
Like some said, one glass is not the universe, but were that to become something you indulged again, then you really would be kicking yourself to the curb if you did relaspe saying "what if I hadn't been doing that".......and do you want that?
So, no, I guess I'll withhold my pat on the head in the hope of having gotten your attention. Take care of yourself.  MaryB
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388154_tn?1306365291
My father is a doc and he has always said to me, their aint no such things as poison only  poisonous  mass, so relax its a okey with that one glas of wine. Good luck with svr
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Avatar_f_tn
Marl - congrats on finishing.  I wouldn't give the wine a second thought.  Just ignore the partonizing "Mommy" stuff.

Bill - I agree re the distasteful conduct, climbing on soapbox to push one's personal agenda.  I add my apologies to yours.

jd
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86075_tn?1238118691
one glass of wine wouldn't hurt anybody...it's only routine drinking with HCV and/or treatment that I'd worry about....just my take, anyone is free to disagree!
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Avatar_m_tn
One glass of wine is nothing to be worried about. I would do the same if I made it that far and congrats to you!!. I will not type anything about wine and the liver because we all know the story, but one glass of wine is not even an issue in my opinion. I hope you can just relax and wait to see how you did on treatment and I wish you the best!!

The only time I would be concerned with one..1...glass of wine is if you had major major issues with drinking.. and I dont believe you do and you said you will not drink until SVR so i dont see any issues and risks that you will now "Indulge".

And I cant even begin to explain the anger i have for someone calling you "dumb" for something. I really dont see the help that does at all. If you think someone made a mistake give your point of view and such, but I do not see a reason to be negative and call someone dumb in a health blog. How can you say your not trying to be mean when you come across very negative and are going to most likely upset someone who needs help with an issue???? In my humble opinion you are the dumb one for using such language.

  
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421145_tn?1230392054
I've only been watching this forum for several months, and I have to agree with a point made by merryB. Quite a few folks come on here with questions about alcohol. Often times it's easy to read between the lines and see that they just want "permission" to drink from someone else. Sometimes it's not. Soapbox? ...no.   Opinion? .. yes. And that's all this forum is. opinions. Her's seems well intentioned at least.

My opinion?.....no, that glass of wine won't hurt you. Would I have done it? maybe. Would I want someone I care about to drink it? NO.

anyway... best of luck with SVR!  that is what we all wish for you.
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Avatar_f_tn
One glass of wine at the end of treatment is not going to undo all those months of treatment.  If you do not get SVR it will have nothng to do with the glass of wine at the very END.  So put it out of your mind permanently.  

Congratulations to you for getting all the way through treatment...I'm hoping for best results for you!!!

Take care.

Trish
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86075_tn?1238118691
not my business (when did that ever stop me? lol)...but saying someone did a dumb thing (and that's up for debate) is not the same as calling someone dumb...
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233616_tn?1312790796
thanks for noticing that. we all want mar to make smart choices and show up to announce she is 2 years clear, and then 3 etc. Her choices now could effect that outcome.

I learned with my kids it's important not to call them dumb, but also not to minimize when they start making dumb choices either,. which is why the wrding was what it was.

on the 5 th month of treatment I can not get my brain anywhere close to around going out and celebrating until I am 7 years clear and SRV...so maybe a glass on our 20th anniversary.in ten years, this I'd consider....but not just when cming off tx..or any time soon after..

HR says that is the most vunerable time right?? the first year after tx.
this tx is really a PITA of the 9th order of difficultly...no way would I want to take risks with that success rate, even if I lessened my chances 1 percent, I would deem my behavior as foolish. Folish in that what I am aware of that is harmful gives me more chance at quality life, and to ignore that infomation means I am choosing death over life..

Maybe it's just our society today, many feel they have to imbibe to fit in.....
yet those same folks will often not smole to protect their lungs, or excersise to protect their hearts.....yet the liver gets a daily swig of paint thinner (alcohol's byproducts)(basically a cup of poison to be dealt with) .....and no one thinks twice about it.
it does not compute.
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Avatar_f_tn
Well, let's keep it in perspective here.  Mar wasn't asking if it was smart or dumb. I think her remorse and worry speaks for itself and she states she has no intention of drinking until she's SVR.  Her actual question was "Do you think this will impact treatment success? "  

There was no daily swig of anything.  There was one glass with the stated intention not to drink anymore and a question asking what was thought to be the impact of the one glass.  

Mar was already down on herself for what she did and asking what we thought the repercussions were for that one drink.  She deserved an answer on THAT question. Not to kick her even further down.
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Not that I'm advocating hitting the bottle and becoming rip-roaring, staggering drunk, but for whatever it's worth, once I finished tx, during the 6 months that I waited for a declaration of SVR, I went to my local winery several times for tasting seminars.  Basically, I kept my consumption to around 5 ounces (used the spit bucket a lot) and only did this maybe a total of 5 times.  I also had to take a 6 day course of prednisone for asthma during this time period and furthermore, I only treated for 13 weeks (geno 2).  Nonetheless I got my SVR,   I have a hunch that if you're going to SVR, you're going to SVR - unless you throw caution to the wind.  But a little wine occasionally won't hurt you.  

Now that I'm definitely SVR, I'm back to having a glass of wine with dinner two or three nights a week.  It's good for my heart, says my doctor.  And a few times I even drank a glass and a half (we're talking 5 oz. glasses here).  Don't fret.  You'll be fine.
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Avatar_f_tn
I was under the impression that if a person relapses (and the 1st month is the most common time that happens) it is because the virus was not completely gone, or the person engaged in risky behavior (sharing needles, etc.). So I am not sure where one glass of wine would enter the picture.

Merry, I assume you have a good heart. However, your post to maryellen was a bit extreme. You can't judge another person's experience, miundset, etc., by what happened in your family. That is painting everyone with the same brush. Also there are ways to say something and still get your point across. Rather than calling someone's actions dumb...how about saying "that wasn't the best choice to make". Comes off a bit more compassionately don't you think?

Bill1954, I agree that there is quite a bit of "opinion" on these boards rather than scientific evidence-based medicine.
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Avatar_m_tn
No, I do not believe that one glass of wine will have any affect whatsoever on your treatment response. Try to relax - if relaxation is possible while waiting for your results of treatment - and just forget about it. Good luck, Mike
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179856_tn?1333550962
While you are on treatment you don't want to drink because it CAN affect the interferon's efficacy and you don't want to interrupt it not for a second however one glass of wine - I doubt that could do anything to anyone except an ant. And he'd drown.

Stop sweating the small stuff and beating yourself up. You made a mistake (???) owned to it, regret it and aren't going to do it again anyway - treatment is hard enough without making it harder on yourself!

Now, that's an order you newbie from an old time warrior!  Have a bowl of ice cream and let it go!   :)
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350279_tn?1208017145
You asked the question. When one person doesn't give you the permission your seeking, you get upset with her. I suggest that you don't ask a question you don't want an honest answer to.
You have no assurances that you will be clear. There will always be reasons to have "a" glass of wine, more celebrations.
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Avatar_m_tn
Do you actually read the thread before you post? It appears that perhaps either you don't or, if you do, you don't comprehend very well because Mar wasn't seeking permission - she asked if one glass of wine would impact treatment success.
From her post: "Do you think this will impact treatment success? "
Mike
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Avatar_f_tn
Permission?  Nobody asked anybody for permission.
jd
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362971_tn?1201990634
    Either you are going to SVR or not. It is that simple. A glass of wine or 5 glasses of wine on the weekend will not change that...period. Some people will always think otherwise ...but it is not based on scientific fact only opinions.  
    I am not saying you or anyone else should do this but I have a neighbor that was a slow responder gt 1 that reached SVR  6 years ago and she drank beer on the weekends while treating. So who do you believe. I would just be carefull because if the virus came back I guess in the back of your mind you would always wonder.

   One glass don't worry about it. If it bothers you just don't do it again.

Bobby
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412685_tn?1203536091
As a recovering addict,I wouldn't drink after treatment ended, BUT you are not me. If you are not an addict, one glass of wine sounds cool, hey you just completed a grueling regimen.

Of course a glass of wine all the time could tax your liver, but it sounds like a one off for you.

Take good care of yourself, let your liver heal to the best of your abilities, and reap the rewards of your decisions, good luck!
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179856_tn?1333550962
The main reason I advocate no regular drinking after treatment is because we all have already gotten on the road to progressive liver damage already.  I don't believe for one moment that a glass of wine can "bring the virus back" or something. But fibrosis unfortunately is already a problem for us.....that said... regular moderate to heavy drinking should be avoided in for that reason - we don't need any MORE fibrosis. That's just a sad basic fact of science.

But "a" drink, AFTER treatment?  How can that hurt?  What is that possibly going to do to someone?  One glass of wine will do WHAT? Can anyone give one point on anything?

So like I said I don't think people who have a drink are 'dumb' or that someone who is worried that they might have done the wrong this is "asking permission" I think in fact they just felt bad and wanted to say so and get some peace of mind.  

Sometimes...confession and discussion can do wonders for the soul.

And although it does give the self righteous a soap box to operate from - I'm glad you posted it and hopefully you feel better and have put it behind you.

Be blessed and SVR to you!
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387294_tn?1207623785
Thank you to all of you who have written to me.  Rest assure, that one moment of what one might call poor judgement is behind me.  I have been so perfect on treatment and I will not have any until I am (hope and pray) SVR.  It has been good for my soul and your understanding has been great.  I have a viral load test on Tuesday (one week late for end of treatment) and hopefully can reassure me I didn't screw up too big.  thx again
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86075_tn?1238118691
everyone has some really good points to make, some can be seemingly contradictory but still valid...

but as for the post where a person knows someone who drank like a fish on the weekends and still svr'ed...there will always be those people...some people have amazing constitutions and can take a lot of abuse, all those chemicals on top of a lot of alcohol? wow....(though a bad lifestyle will almost always catch up with them) but we can't extrapolate that out to everyone here...most of us won't be that lucky...or there wouldn't be the stats that are out there with this disease...

one person's experience does not a universal truth make...we are all different and to me at least, it's best to err on the side of caution...but like I said, who cares about one celebratory drink if you don't have a problem with it?
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212705_tn?1221624250
Boy....alcohol sure brings out the worst in people...even just talkin' about it! My thought after reading Merrybe's response was that anybody should be able to see/feel that she was showing her care, kindness and concern. Period.
Why so many get defensive is beyond me. Is this not a place to state one's opinion????
....and that's what she did and for that she was attacked. I have seen this before and no doubt I'll see it again but I want it on record that I won't condone it...nor appreciate those who "run with the pack."
Sincerely,
y
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212705_tn?1221624250
To: Mar148: Written 5 hours ago

My advice is not to 'sweat it." What's done is done...and I have not heard of anyone relapsing due to 'one' glass of wine. Stay away from it at least until you get a 3 mo.SVR.  Look at shastri2003 (today's) post. He is doing alright w/ a few. Again, that's not ok for many of us...me in particular. I have filled 'my quota.' for this lifetime.
All the best...all the way to SVR!
y

I think even after SVR, and how much reversal of damage to our livers or lack thereof....alcohol is very damaging. Proceed with Caution.

ps: This thread was posted twice...i thought my response got 'lost' once again...so here it is for those who think I am a Puritan.




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233616_tn?1312790796
1. for the record, I see no point in you worrying about what you already did and can't change. And I'm glad you came in here worried! that's a good sign!

2.After 30 years in business I retired to help women and girls in recovery so this effects my responses which is what seeing a lot of sick and destroyed people does to one.

3. I never called you dumb, I said it was a dumb choice HOPING this would make your remorse turn into a quality choice to not start goiing down a road likely to do you far more harm than good.

4. A women's liver is 1/3 smaller than a mans, and the effects, many not reversible occur much earlier in their lives.

5. I would suggest you go do a search on two chemicals acetaldehyde and acetate (you know, finger nail polish remover.) the more you learn how toxic these are the less you will want to make that choice.

example primer:

As absorbed alcohol is passed through the liver by the circulating blood, it is acted upon by ADH present in the liver cells. The alcohol molecule is converted by this action to acetaldehyde, itself a highly toxic substance, but the acetaldehyde is immediately acted upon by another enzyme, aldehyde dehydrogenase, and converted to acetate, most of which enters the bloodstream and is ultimately oxidized to carbon dioxide and water. Considerable utilizable energy—200 calories per ounce of alcohol (about 7.1 calories per gram)—is made available to the body during these processes, and in this sense alcohol serves as a nutrient.

These "calories" are so highly toxic that the body stops all other processes until these are neutralized. "The hangover" is proof positive that large numbers of cells were damaged and repair can take days. Regular drinking contribute more to liver fibrosis than any other known behavior or product consumed. Regular drinking also eventually shrinks the brain to half it's original size....(which may explain why the alcoholic can't at a certain point function on many cognitive levels.)

To Pigeon:
drinking several wines a night:  the wine industry loves you!!! That advertising on how good for the heart it is really works!!!!!.
Lok, first,
Your can take a baby aspirin and get more benefit to your heart than from all that wine.
Walk around the block, greater benefit.
Drinking what turns into several solvents is not a benefit.
If you want the benfits that exist in the grape, drink grape juice, or, take Reservatol as our  forums doctor (HR) recommends.
Bottom line is,
I do not know what stage of liver disease Mar is at....or what anyone else who will read this is at....many people, even after treatment will spend the rest of their lives operating at half of normal liver function....which for a woman...would mean functional tissue equal to that of an eight year old child. This is due to the late stage that most are being diagnosed at and hopefully will improve with time and/or early detection.
I would not encourage any 8 year old to consume wine in any quantity in the mean time, ergo I would not encourage a liver patient to do it.
No one here has to agree with me, I'll still continue to speak my mind, as hopefully we all shall.  Best to all.
maryB
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387294_tn?1207623785
Well I think my question has taken on a life of its own and everyone is responding to their own perspective on the issue.  I was coming from my own worry about one glass of wine, not an anxiety that I contemplated, before hopefully (praying) SVR.  I realize alcohol is challenge in many people's lives, at this point I am not contemplating a drink before I know for sure and was not a alcoholic before I found out I had hep c through donating blood.  Don't know how I got it like many.  I have no liver damage and am lucky I found out and am trying to deal with it.

I didn't want this to be used as a soap box, just wondering if I should worry about my one glass.  That's all.  Thanks for those who understand.
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184420_tn?1326743408
one glass of wine will make no difference at all

however, if you are alcoholic one glass of wine can lead to many so the answer for someone who is an alcoholic/problem drinker the answer would probably be its not a good idea

but whatever, i too am a bit tired of the puritan attitudes of alot of people about drug and alcohol use, especially in the us of a with alcohol being legal and pot not and so many people every day becoming addicted to dr prescribed and homemade poisons ...  everything in moderation is the key and the more natural the better in my opinion haha

since the beginning of time people have turned to certain substances to help them thru this journey called life, to open their minds and bodies to different experiences and feellings and thats not going to change any time soon, if people would just accept that  this world would be a much better place
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86075_tn?1238118691
I agree with much of your post - cept the *puritan* part (although that may be operating in some people, certainly not with me). First of all, anyone can do what they want out there...if a person with cirrhosis wants to drink a qt of Jack Daniels every night, that's on them. I guess we are just addressing questions about alcohol on this board, when someone asks. This lady just wanted to know if one drink was okay, guess most of told her it was fine, that's that.

But one has to realize that these types of posts will get all the soup to nuts answers that are possible on a public hepatitis *LIVER DISEASE* board...that's just a given...if anyone has any history with these boards, they'll know that. Very often these types of threads will become contentious. Sad but true. Course, if a person isn't familiar with this reality, I can see why they might become defensive or just plain puzzled at all the varied *charged* reactions.

I think what happens is that there are so many variables to this question, and that tends to get lost in the equation. And because there are SO many substance abusers in this Hep C community (as there are in most every community, with the stats saying something like 1 in 4 Americans have some type of serious substance abuse issue - that's a whole lot of Americans).

I know some people are *sensitive* to this issue, as they think we as a community  already suffer stigmatization from the public, etc...And I can understand that. There should be efforts to inform the public that many of us do not suffer from substance abuse issues, that this is a blood to blood contact disease, and we shouldn't be stigmatized, under any circumstances, addictions or not. All diseases should be addressed as diseases, without any type of moralizing, stigmatization, categorization, etc.

But I'm the type that likes to call a spade a spade, and let's face it, if anyone who has been here say, over a year....and has NOT seen *a lot* of substance abusers, out of the closet, and IN the closet, people with drug addictions, alcoholics, etc...then they are lying to themselves....at least to my way of thinking.

Do I have a moral or puritanical aversion to these people? Certainly not. People like this are wired differently, they are usually chemically different then people without these addictions, and they deserve nothing but help.

If you have been lucky enough to not be wired this way, why on earth would you condemn anybody who does have this burden to bear.  I don't condemn anybody. But the fact that these people have the added burden of  A LIVER DISEASE makes their addictive behavior all the more serious and alarming. We all know that, and we know why. Nothing will acclerate this disease more then alcoholic drinking and druging. With copious amounts of alcohol the biggest offender of all.

And yes I know, being obese isn't the best thing either. Smoking isn't the best either.

That being said, there are also plenty of people with this disease WHO ARE NOT ALCOHOLICS. They might just miss that glass of wine with dinner or at a celebratory party, whatever. My party line has always been my doctor's...you have this disease? then ONE DRINK, at a party or something to celebrate, probably wouldn't hurt...BUT NO ROUTINE DRINKING.

After you SVR, then one can go back to moderate drinking - if they don't have a drinking problem of course. And, if you're not an alcoholic (as many of my friends who routinely drink when I see them socially, etc)...and you don't have this disease, well, it's all on you. I don't even care if my friends (who are NOT infected with hep or anything else) get a little tipsy every once in a while, who cares? Their livers are fine.

But do I hang around with active alcoholic-drunks? No. Nothing bores me more then being around a person who is drunk and obnoxious, spitting in my face while they are repeating the same story over and over. I just feel bad for them and hope they get help, but do I want to be around that? no.

But I was just at a friend's dinner party not too long ago, and they were getting just a little tipsy on fine wine, we all had fun though. So yeah, there are many conditions and qualifiers, but I'm pretty sure most people are just a little sensitive over this issue because there is so much at stake with this disease, it is a LIVER DISEASE after all, not because of any kind of MORAL objection. And yes, not EVERYONE who has hep c is an alcoholic. Just my take, go in peace.
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Avatar_m_tn
Are you treating yet? Mike
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86075_tn?1238118691
.......thanks for asking...hope youre well...
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Avatar_m_tn
I'm well and I wish you an easy time and a good result. Mike
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Avatar_f_tn
If you read my post, you'd realize that I never said I drank several glasses of wine a night.  I said that a couple of times in the past year I had a glass and a half (i.e. 7 or 8 oz.), but my usual consumption is a 4 or 5 oz. glass with food, and not every night.  As I understand it, the liver can handle a certain amount of alcohol (20 or 30 grams), just as it can handle certain prescription meds that in excess would cause damage.  

Appreciating good wine is similar to appreciating good food, art, music, and literature, all works of humankind at its highest levels of creativity.  I've never had a problem with alcohol, so I figure it's all right for me.  I have had problems with cookies and cakes, so I'm much more cautious with my ingestion of desserts.


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137025_tn?1217768341
so much 'tude about the booze, wow.  We are all such a colorful bunch with wonderfully developed opinions....great to have a place to share them.

I used to make wine for Chateau Ste. M@#$@#$@ in Washington and I don't drink, never have, just don't like the taste.  But I was always rip roaring tipsy by noon from tasting and the tests we used to run after the crush in October and November.  The labs had all the testing done early in the a.m. so that a person like me could eat lunch and sober up before going home.  

Working for 12 to 14 hours a day during crush always ensured that we were sober before driving.  You all made me remember those days....I had the virus then, but the whole experience was so wonderful, I would not give it up.  I still don't drink, especially not wine.  Are you kidding?  I know what goes in those vats!!!  

One time...there was this big ole grasshopper, floating in the skins...I was doing punch downs....yep....I mixed him in.  I'm sorry, I couldn't resist!!  He eventually got filtered out..but the Cab that year was called....earthy...with a woodsy back.  Thanks to that ole grasshopper.  Think about what you consume.  You just never know.

Willow
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250084_tn?1303311035
Yes, booze brings out a lot here, while all are sober!
I didn't get thru this whole thread!

All I know is I have an excellent, holds 5 titles-head of research Dr. who has told me I can have A glass of wine for my 50th birthday IF I want! (Finished tx 2 weeks ago.)
And that after the 6mths. SVR that I am GOING to get :)....I can go back to 'normal life' (not a big drinker, no addictions, etc) , of course not drinking 10 drinks every day as the liver will be repairing itself, but occasional is ok. I have moderate liver damage. I think it is up to each person to decide what they want to do and obviously if you have any addiction problems, get help-stop all! To each his own of course (opinions) and doesn't mean mine is 'right'.
I am sure you'll be fine Mar!

Bobby....." During treatment I talked the GI into prescribing some VICODIN because I was in a lot of pain for a while. And then I read about a study with Opiates causing HCV replication in vitro..................
  WHAT?? I have had vicoprofen or Vicodin for the UnGodly muscle pain/migraines thru tx, tho I never did more than 2 a day. Is that true? I am just ending tx, don't scare me now!!

Willow...what company? (or maybe I don't need to know if I drank any of that!)
And what if that grasshopper had Hep C??

LL
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Your old job sounds wonderful to me.  Living in L.A., I love to visit the wineries north of Santa Barbara, which is a delightful day trip.  Even while on treatment, I went to the wineries a few times with friends, knowing that I couldn't drink even a sip, because the scenery is so gorgeous and it just totally refreshes me to be some place that has no steel or concrete in the landscape.  If I were rich, I'd buy some land in wine country and have a living room with a giant picture window overlooking hilly fields of grapes.  Paradise.
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137025_tn?1217768341
Hey, keep in touch, because when you get that winery, I know a whole lot about growing, picking, squishing, vatting and barrelling red wine.  I also learned about whites too, brrr....kept in huge stainless vats for weeks...wet and cold.

Like your image, a vineyard is the most beautiful place in the world to be.  And I can not share with you the smell of vineyards during crush when the grapes are ripe and ready...wow.  I have grape vines in my back yard now, all table grapes...but for about three weeks a year, I can go out there and grab big handfuls of grapes and smash them all into my mouth at once.   Personally, wine is a total second to fresh grapes, off the vine grapes...still with the spiders and all.  Ah well, when we're rich, right?  

p.s.  we grow some pretty good grapes in Washington state too, the desert makes the reds taste so very fine.  But I lived north of Santa Barbara for about 15 years.  They didn't plant the grapes until I left but I understand IT is beautiful now.  My favorite vineyard in Washington is on the Columbia River, not too far from Yakima.  You would like it there too.
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394687_tn?1290924440
Hey 4c - are you getting anxious yet....yikes only 3 days away - you'll do great! I liked your post.

Willow and Pigeon: I am a wine with dinner kinda gal and love the wineries. The Buelton ones are great (had my horses at pasture there) as well as Merin county and I live fairly close to Temecula - they are fun as well. I have a list for reasons to tx  and this made it on the list. I haven't drinken for 6 months and really don't miss it except when I'm in social settings where a party's going on. Which is neal to none these days. But you did strike a note - my favorite wine was the one you refered too (My real name).

Here's my list of reasons I want to tx now - please feel free to add anything I'm missing.

1.) People who treat earlier have a better response rate
2.) I am healthy as I will ever be today (I have RA and get worse everyday)
3.) New Drugs that are promising are at leaset 3 years out.
4.) My anxiety will increase with every day that I wait
5.) I want my energy back!
6.) I don't want this negative stigma (as others see it) hanging around my head and my families for years to come
7.) I want to show my horses again
6.) I want to be normal again which includes fine wine with fine food at fine resturants

I feel better now :-)
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250084_tn?1303311035
2:45 am, gotta get my brain dead butt to sleep, and can't do 'heavy thinking' but...

Good post forsee!! Much of my opinion (& we've discussed being around sloppy drunks sober). More to add, tomorrow, but good post,lol! (and a Pattys Day start out!!! Why not, can't drink green beer!:)

Mikkimoe, want to answer your post, will when I'm awake and thinking! I agree with #6 tho, love fine wine (not Boones Farm or MD 20-20,lol!)

NITE all!
LL
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250084_tn?1303311035
BTW....you do know that threads often go from the original question to politics to whats on TV , right? We're not forgetting you point/question!

Don't worry on that at all! If you worry a lot, have 3 glass's of wine and it will relieve the stress. JUST KIDDING :)

Silly sleepy now!

LL
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